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Kangaskhan too Strong - Peaked #1 with 1510

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by CrashinBoomBang, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
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    Kangaskhan too Strong

    [​IMG]

    ~Welcome to Lose~



    At a glance
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    So after starting to play Smogon NU kind of recently as well as joining #neverused, I wanted a team that could handle almost every metagame threat while still suiting my style (Offense). When DTC started a discussion about Kangaskhan around one week before the actual Research Week and asked me to use it, I did just that. While I'm probably one of the last people who think ladder equals skill of any kind, this team did great on ladder, reaching 1510 points on ladder under the alt "kangaskhan strong" while the Kangaskhan research week was underway. It also did pretty well against numerous players that I consider good.

    The team itself is based around crushing offensive, defensive and balanced teams alike with the sheer power of Choice Banded attackers. Of course, the very first Pokemon I added was Kangaskhan which ended up being more of a utility Choice Bander instead of a nuke like the other three. Next I added Sawk and Emboar because I knew that those two form an excellent offensive core combined. I also wanted to see how CB Braviary does in this Metagame, so that was my 4th Pokemon. Between those 4, I had the ability to break about every single wall in the whole of NU, so I added two Pokemon to cover up weaknesses next. Zebstrika was my first choice, being able to handle Rotom-S as well as revenge killing most speed boosted sweepers (Exeggutor/Gorebyss/Victreebel) with ease. I chose Musharna to be my final Pokemon; it's a good switch-in for Pokemon such as Sawk and Gurrdurr that my team struggled to handle and is also the teams "defensive anchor" if you want to call it that.

    With that out of the way we get to the actual team:


    A closer look

    [​IMG]

    Zebstrika (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    [​IMG] Volt Switch
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt
    [​IMG] Overheat
    [​IMG] Hidden Power [Grass]

    This thing is hands down the best Scarfer in NU. Even with a Modest nature, it has enough speed to outspeed Adamant Scarf Cinccino, Choice Scarf Charizard, Gorebyss, Modest Ludicolo under rain, Victreebel and Exeggutor in sun and many more Pokemon. Lightningrod is also an amazing ability since it prevents teams from just Volt Switching around against me. Although it's shown as the first Pokemon here, I rarely lead with it. Sawk and Emboar are much more content at taking out common leads such as Regirock and Golem. The moveset is pretty simple, Volt Switch being the most used move to prevent me from losing momentum while still OHKO'ing Swellow and putting a huge dent into Charizard/Braviary/Gorebyss. Thunderbolt is for those times when I need a stronger attack to KO something or to sweep a weakened team. It should be noted that it doesn't always OHKO Charizard and only does around 90% to Braviary, so staying in on those to Thunderbolt is a risky business. Overheat is a great coverage move, hitting grass Pokemon in general and Sawsbuck/Victreebel/Exeggutor in particular. Hidden Power [Grass] is more of a filler than anything, but it hits Golem and Quagsire which can come in handy. I have been thinking about replacing it with HP Ice to handle the rare DD Altaria and Shelgon better, but I'm not sure, so I'd like some input on that. The EV's maximize Speed and Special attack while a Modest nature gives me a very welcome damage boost. Timid isn't necessary because it doesn't outspeed anything notable and misses a few key KO's.



    [​IMG]

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] Double-Edge
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Sucker Punch
    [​IMG] Ice Punch

    Kangaskhan is a monster. Its above average defenses and speed make switching it in pretty easy; once it's actually on the field, very few things can stop it reliably. It is also the Pokemon that can clean up the best, thanks to its great neutral coverage and speed. STAB Double-Edge boosted by Choice Band is a fearsome weapon; even more so when helped by Scrappy, allowing Kangaskhan to hit ghostly foes such as Haunter, Drifblim and Misdreavus very hard, 2HKO'ing them all at the very least. Earthquake hits Rock and Steel types hard, the only two types that resist Scrappy Double-Edge. Sucker Punch is an useful priority move, but being locked into it can prove hazardous; it should only be used when absolutely needed. Ice Punch is used very rarely, but it comes in handy against Torterra or when Ice Punch hits the Pokemon that is out as well as a likely switch in (for example, Vileplume is out and my opponent has a Golem). The EVs are once again self explanatory. Attack and Speed are maxed; Kangaskhan has great bulk even without HP investment. I went Jolly over Adamant because it outspeeds Key threats such as Rotom-S, non-Scarf Sawk and Magmortar as well as most other Kangaskhan. Adamant could be really useful for the extra power, however, especially against Pokemon like Tangela.



    [​IMG]

    Emboar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] Flare Blitz
    [​IMG] Superpower
    [​IMG] Head Smash
    [​IMG] Wild Charge

    Emboar is, in my opinion, the single best Pokemon in NU right now. Being able to 2HKO every single Pokemon except for Alomomola is huge and it's even better when you consider that it's one of the few Pokemon that have absolutely no problem with Tangela, the premier physical wall. Combined with Sawk, Emboar provides a nearly unwallable offensive core; very few teams can even handle one of those two consistently, so 2 Choice Banded Fighters are simply too much for a majority of teams. Flare Blitz and Superpower are the obvious STAB attacks; between the two of them, Emboar can 2HKO everything except very specific counters such as Alomomola, Altaria and the rare Lampent. Head Smash smashes through both Altaria and Lampent while also OHKO'ing Armaldo (which can survive Flare Blitz and Superpower). Wild Charge gives me a more reliable attack than Superpower against Water Types and can 2HKO Alomomola. Maximum attack with an Adamant nature ensures that Emboar hits as hard as possible. 96 Speed EV's give me 190 Speed, enough to outspeed max Speed Adamant Golem and Armaldo as well as 0 Speed Samurott. The remaining EV's were dumped into HP to provide more bulk, since I make use of Emboars excellent typing pretty often.



    [​IMG]

    Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] Close Combat
    [​IMG] Stone Edge
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Reversal

    Sawk completes my Fighting Pokemon core by being another excellent offensive presence. Trading Emboar's bulk for higher speed, he is the one who usually cleans up after Emboar punches holes into the opponents team. Close Combat is Sawk's main move, and pretty safe to spam if Sturdy wasn't broken yet. It does huge damage to everything that doesn't resist it, knocking Tangela around for ~40% and pretty much 2HKO'ing everything else without a resist. Stone Edge gives Sawk a move to hit Flying types, in particular Golbat and Drifblim, who would otherwise completely wall him. Earthquake rounds off the coverage by hitting grounded poison types such as Garbodor and Muk extremely hard, as well as doing slightly more damage against Duosion, Musharna, and Vileplume than Close Combat. Reversal gives Sawk an extremely powerful weapon should his Sturdy get activated, 2HKO'ing Tangela with ease and malming absolutely everything that doesn't resist it. The EV's are nothing special, I just maxed speed and attack because Sawk has a very useful speed tier (Magmortar sits just below it), so I made full use of it by also going for a Jolly nature.



    [​IMG]

    Musharna (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 180 Def / 252 SAtk / 56 SDef / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    [​IMG] Psychic
    [​IMG] Hidden Power [Fighting]
    [​IMG] Shadow Ball
    [​IMG] Baton Pass

    Musharna was more of an afterthought than anything, but it still fills a great niche on my team. Being able to sponge strong Fighting attacks that would demolish the rest of my team, as well as luring out Dark types such as Absol and Skuntank (and subsequently Baton Passing) that my Fighting core can take advantage of. Psychic was taken over Psyshock because of its raw power; missing out on hitting Flareon and Cryogonal hard can be annoying at times, though. Hidden Power [Fighting] hits all Dark-types except for Skuntank hard, OHKO'ing Absol and Cacturne most of the time. Shadow Ball allows me to OHKO Jynx and do huge damage to other Musharna; it also hits other psychic types such as Duosion extremely hard. The EVs let Musharna hit hard while still taking hits; maximum special attack EVs with a modest nature make it hit as hard as possible. 20 Speed EVs are there to outspeed other Musharna, which rarely run as many Speed EVs as I do. 56 Special Defense EVs let me survive a +2 White Herb Gorebyss Surf, even after Stealth Rock damage, as well as taking other special attacks slightly better (LO Cryogonal will never 2HKO without SR, for example). The remaining EVs were put into Defense because Musharna gets so much more out of that than if I put them into HP, because the former is much lower than the latter.



    [​IMG]

    Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Keen Eye
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] Brave Bird
    [​IMG] Frustration
    [​IMG] U-turn
    [​IMG] Superpower

    Braviary is my last Pokemon, and the final one of my 4 Choice Banders. It is an incredibly dangerous wallbreaker, easily crushing cores such as Tangela/Quagsire/Misdreavus, against which Emboar and Sawk would have a hard time. U-turn is also a crucial part of getting my two Fighting types in safely; Braviary can U-turn while they switch to a Steel- or Rock-type to wall it, which Emboar and Sawk can abuse easily. Brave Bird is Braviary's STAB move and guaranteed to destroy everything that does not resist it; even Alomomola and Shelgon stand a good chance to be 2HKO'd by it. Frustration is also a very important attack for Braviary, OHKO'ing most Rotom-S' trying to switch in as well as heavily denting every other Electric type. It's also great when the bird is low on health and can't take any more recoil. U-turn is very important for the team as a whole, giving Sawk and Emboar ample free turns to do their thing. It also OHKO's Exeggutor without taking recoil! Superpower is used very rarely; most of the time U-turning out is the better option, but it does have its moments (killing a Scarf Rampardos that tries to switch in, for example, since it can actually do a lot of damage to Sawk before dying). The EV's are, once again, nothing too special. 216 Speed with an Adamant nature allows me to outspeed Adamant Absol. I don't find speed tieing with other Braviary too tempting, so I decided to put 40 EVs into HP instead. 252 Attack EVs with an Adamant nature give Braviary the power it needs.

    Threats

    If there is one thing this team does NOT have problems with, it's breaking open defensive cores; even dedicated stall teams have problems standing up to 2 Choice Banders, so they're kinda screwed against 4. Of course, that still requires intelligent switching, but it's almost never an issue. One problem any Choice team will have is Protect; if there is an excessive amount of Protect users on the opponents team then one of the strong points of this team, the opponent being forced to predict, is negated. If Toxic Spikes are down AND Protect is in the game then chances of winning are extremely slim.

    This team also has problems with fast sweepers; offensive teams full of Pokemon with 95 or more base Speed can spell doom very quickly. Some particularly noteworthy threats are:
    [​IMG]Jynx: Probably the single biggest threat on this team. Can come in against everything but Zebra after a KO, put something to sleep, and then go to town with Ice Beam and Psyshock. Requires really smart switching, and even then, it might not be enough to overcome it.

    [​IMG]Offensive Cryogonal: In the same boat as Jynx. No sleep, but makes up for it with the ability to not get revenge killed by Zebra. Hidden Power [Ground] Cryogonal is noteworthy for 2HKO'ing everything on my team while taking any attack from the only thing that outspeeds it at full health and healing back up.

    [​IMG]Cinccino: Every version (except Scarf, I guess) can really rip me apart with its powerful attacks. 115 Base Speed is way more than I can handle. Luckily Zebstrika 2HKO's it with Volt Switch + Thunderbolt. U-turn is also annoying and can mess whatever plan I had up royally.

    [​IMG]Haunter: Is immune to my strongest attacks, hits really REALLY hard and has a sub to hide behind most of the time. This thing can really mess me up. Again, Zebstrika does 85% minimum with Thunderbolt so it's not impossible to handle, at least.

    [​IMG]Tauros: Pretty rare but damn does it hit hard. Unlike Cinccino, it can't U-turn, and thus generally has to sacrifice itself to hit anything, but that one hit will hurt everything.

    I probably forgot a few other ones, so yeah, let me know if there is anything else. Most slow sweepers are easily revenge killed, and thus aren't really huge threats, so I only listed the biggest threats. Basically I want suggestions on how to improve this team, especially the huge weakness to fast sweepers. The one change I will not undergo is changing something to a non-Choice item; that's just the way I play.

    For all those people who want to try this team out:
    Show Hide

    Zebstrika (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Double-Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Emboar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Head Smash
    - Wild Charge
    - Superpower

    Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal

    Musharna (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Forewarn
    EVs: 180 Def / 252 SAtk / 56 SDef / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Baton Pass

    Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Keen Eye
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Brave Bird
    - Frustration
    - Superpower


    And for all the people who want to see ladder rankings:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]



    So yeah, that basically is my current NU team. I hope everyone else has as much fun with it as I did. Comment, Rate, etc etc
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    Since it seems like you have problems with fast and frail Pokemon how about changing Kangaskhan's set to a Life Orb one with Fake-Out? The combination of Fake-Out and Sucker Punch can deal with most of the threats that are listed. It would also prevent Linoone from sweeping your if it manages to pull off a Belly Drum. You already mentioned that Kangaskhan is more of an utility attacker than a powerful hitter so the transition from Choice Band to Life Orb shouldn't affect your team too much. The loss of Ice Punch is not a problem either since you barely use it.

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Double-Edge/Frustration
  3. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

    Joined:
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    I already considered that and I have to say, it sounds better and better the more I think about it now. It would certainly help me with a few common weaknesses, and even though it lacks the raw power of the CB set (and destroys the theme of 6 Choice users) it sounds like a good option. I'm just afraid Kangaskhan will die too quickly with Life Orb + Double-Edge recoil (I personally think Return is too weak but whatever). Nevertheless, I'll definitely try that one out!
  4. Godsend

    Godsend

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    This is bad ass. I suck at NU, but this is amazing. Good work.
  5. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,782
    Just for the record, this is a nooby team I only lost to it because of misplay... multiple times...

    I think you should keep Band on Kangaskhan because it has amazing power and perfect 2 move coverage with Scrappy is perfect for Choice use. One of its biggest selling points is its bulk which Band doesn't compromise.

    The only suggestion I have is to Scarf Braviary. Your Band Emboar and Sawk together break most physical wall combos and a Scarf Braviary will give you a more flexible VoltTurn core thanks to its speed. It still destroys Tangela so nothing is lost there, although Quagsire is a problem but it is a free switch-in for Musharna so you're sort of covered there anyway.

    If you don't want to lose that extra wall-breaker in Braviary then I'd suggest Scarfing Kangaskhan who could act as a great cleaner and be able to speed troll other common Scarfers like Sawk and Braviary.

    Lovely team and congrats on the success!
  6. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

    Joined:
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    Thanks

    Yeah I also considered that, but there are two main problems I have with Scarf Braviary. The first one is me bashing DTC for using one yesterday so using one myself would make me look silly. The second one is that it helps A LOT against teams with Misdreavus + stuff that can take fire moves on it since Sawk can't break Misdreavus and Emboar has a hard time as well. If I can use Braviary to break through those, I'll have Emboar and Sawk healthy for when I really need them.
    This is another thing I'll definitely try, though.

    I don't know, Scarf Kangaskhan seems incredibly weak. Even Band has problems overcoming some Pokemon which aren't all that bulky, so I'd imagine Scarf just falling short on a lot of stuff, especially since its STAB can't even hit weaknesses.

    Thanks.
  7. LPFan

    LPFan

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
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    Congratulations on 1st peak! I don't really play NU due to VGC, but I'll try it when my season ends (which I hope it doesn't end too soon).
  8. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    I've seen this team a few times on the ladder and I really do have to say that this is the first team I've seen that really uses stuff like Zebstrika to this extent - I applaud you for that! I guess you could actually fix most of your weaknesses right now with a Cinccino of your own - Musharna can take care of Choice versions who are lured into Psychic by your Fighting-types. Choice Band Cinccino could actually work over something on your team - no idea what though, though maybe Sawk could work? It leaves you a lot more vulnerable to Absol though, since you have to somehow manage to live a possible LO Sucker Punch.... aside from that there's really no reason not to try Choice Band Cinccino! Tail Slap / U-Turn / Rock Blast / Bullet Seed or Wake-Up-Slap seems like it could work. Try it out haha :P
  9. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

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    Yeah, NU is probably one of the better tiers right now. I'd try it out.

    Yeah we discussed that in the channel before, and I really don't like losing what is probably the best Absol check in the tier, considering how badly it demolishes the rest of my team. I really can't replace Sawk or Emboar so, as sad as it is, my only real options would be replacing Braviary or Kangaskhan. Kangaskhan is an AMAZING cleaner while Braviary helps a lot against teams with Misdreavus, so if anything it'd have to go over Kangaskhan, which would cost me a lot of bulk. I'll consider this, but I don't know if the added speed is worth losing so much bulk over.

    Thanks for the rates!
  10. Dasdardly

    Dasdardly

    Joined:
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    Wooooooow!!!!!111!!!!, this team looks so cool!!!! I wish I could build teams like this!!1
  11. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Very solid team cbb :)

    My only suggestion would be to change Musharna from Specs to Life Orb, and Baton Pass to Moonlight. You have Emboar and Sawk to capitalise on any Skuntank shenanigans, and I think it could make good use of the extra recovery. I appreciate you've got a little bit of a Volt-Turn thing going here, but I honestly think Musharna would be more effective with the recovery, and it's fairly easy to predict what the opponent's going to do when you have Musharna in (from my experience at least) so you can make pretty good double switches regardless of Baton Pass.

    It might even be worth swapping Baton Pass for Sleep Talk if you're using Specs, so that Musharna can be Sleep-fodder when you're facing Jynx, and be able to get the Specs boost while also mixing up its attacks. There's a lot of randomness involved though, so it's only a suggestion.
  12. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

    Joined:
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    I really like the Sleep Talk idea, but Baton Pass is really great as well; it's for situations in which you aren't sure WHAT they will switch to (if they have more than one Musharna check), as well as providing me a very slow switch if I want to get out of there without letting one of my sweepers take a hit. I really like the Sleep Talk idea though, since Psychic, its weakest move, is pretty much a 2HKO on Jynx, so there really isn't all that much randomness involved.

    About the Life Orb attacker, I don't like the fact that it loses health just for attacking; a team like mine would much prefer Musharna dying or Baton Passing to gain momentum instead of it sitting there and healing itself, so Life Orb Recoil would just keep stacking. Considering that Musharna almost always survives until I don't need it anymore, Life Orb + Moonlight just becomes an inferior option compared to Choice Specs in my opinion.

    Thanks for the rate, I'll definitely try out Sleep Talk!

    [​IMG]

    ok ill let it stay u win
    Jirachee likes this.
  13. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
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    I understand why this team does so well thanks to all the raw power, but having everything choiced creates certain flaws. Although it's completely absent of the metagame your team would really struggle against torment (struggle haha I'm so funny ...not), especially if it were used by murkrow in combination with protect or substitute. In fact, since your only form of priority is sucker punch, you probably would lose to that murkrow alone. Even if you will probably never encounter such a murkrow, I'd switch at least one choice band or specs for life orb.

    Still great job on the team building.

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