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Pokémon Kangaskhan

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by The Leprechaun, Oct 14, 2013.

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  1. The Leprechaun

    The Leprechaun

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    [Edited]
    [​IMG]

    Kangaskhan
    Abilities
    : Scrappy, Early Bird, Inner Focus (DW)
    Type: Normal
    HP 105
    Atk 95
    Def 80
    SpA 40
    SpD 80
    Spe 90

    [​IMG]

    Mega-Kangaskhan
    Ability
    : Parental bond (Allows the pokemon to attack twice. The second attack is half as powerful)
    Type: Normal
    HP 105
    Atk 125
    Def 100
    SpA 60
    SpD 100
    Spe 100

    New Moves: Power-up Punch

    The introduction of Mega-Kangaskhan will most likely result in a huge boost in usage for the kangaroo as Kanga has one of the highest effective base attack stats of any poke in the game thanks to its new ability Parental bond. With maxed attack and an Adamant nature its Atk stat goes up to 383, when you take into account Parental bond this stat gets boosted all the way to 574.5 with the added ability to smash through sturdy, sashes and subs.

    Set: Wrath of Khan​
    Kangaskhan (Motherfucker) @ Kanghaskhanite
    Ability: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Hp
    Jolly Nature
    - Return/ Body Slam*
    - Sucker Punch
    - Earthquake/ Fire Punch*/ Drain Punch*
    - Power-up Punch/ Substitute

    This is a set i came up quickly so i'm sure there will be far more creative or effective sets that come into usage but even with this it can wreck pretty much every physical wall in the game, let alone OU.
    The fact it gets access to the new move Power-up Punch means that it can pick off weakened foes and get a +2 boost at the same time. If the opponent has a ghost type, you can circumvent this problem by not mega-evolving immediately, allowing you to hit the ghost with the scrappy ability and gain a +1 boost. Alternatively, running sub blocks status on the turn of the switch to a ghost, forcing them to attack you making it easy to smash them with a sucker punch. If you opt for sub, drain punch is the better coverage move so that you can minimise residual damage. Combine this with priority in the form of Sucker-Punch, great coverage in Earthquake, a decent speed tier for OU (fantastic speed for Uber) and very respectable bulk and you have a very very scary mon.​

    calcs (open)


    In these calcs I changed Return's bp to 153 but kept the base stat of 125 Atk the same. Changing Kanga's Atk stat to 763 gave no change.

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 420-495 (100 - 117.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252 Atk (custom) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 312-367 (74.28 - 87.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-259 (62.5 - 73.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Return vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-162 (42.2 - 49.54%) -- 35.55% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 328-387 (83.24 - 98.22%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 643-757 (91.33 - 107.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    Anyone else scared?

    Set: Revenge killer
    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 240 Spe / 12 Hp
    Adamant nature
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Return
    - Drain Punch*/ Earthquake

    Pretty much acting exactly as i has been in this past generation, Kanga can hit any fast threat for huge damage, preventing sweeps or just generally wearing down opponents. Speed investment is to speed creep positive natured base 85s (Nidoking, Heracross, Suicune etc).

    *denotes only available through pokebank.


    Checks: Mega-Lucario, Skarmory, Bronzong, Scarfed fighting types, Ghosts, particularly trevanant

    Mega-luke outspeedsand ohkos with cc but if it hasn't mega-evolved by the time kanga has, it's gonna be taking a PuP or EQ to the face. Skarm can whirlwind it away, wear it down with rocky helmet and set up on it with spikes. 1 on 1 though, it's gonna lose to PuP. Scarfed fighters generally don't care about sucker punch but frailer ones such as mienshao are much shakier checks. ghosts can burn it and what not, offensive ones must be wary of the sucker punch.

    Credit to user Innocent Criminal

    when you combine her fantastic 105/100/100defenses with Wish, Knock Off and a ridiculously powerful Seisnic Toss, she supports the team like no other and there isn't much your opponent can do against it.

    Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Early Bird
    EVs: 36 SDef / 252 HP / 220 Def or 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Impish/Careful Nature
    - Seismic Toss
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Knock Off/Crunch

    The EV spread can be tweaked depending on your team, and the first one gives her optimal physical bulk while letting her survive Mega Gengar's Focus Blast after Rocks to OHKO with Crunch. Going mixed is viable as well, but I didn't find speed investment to be as helpful as bulk. If Gengarite is banned, I don't see much reason to run Crunch at all.

    To give you an idea of how bulky she is, using the physical spread:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 222+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 120-142 (28.9 - 34.2%)
    252 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 150-177 (36.2 - 42.7%)
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 222+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 200-238 (48.3 - 57.4%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 222+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 240-284 (57.9 - 68.5%)
    252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 222+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 265-315 (64 - 76%)


    She has plenty of opportunities to come in, and every time that happens she will achieve something significant. 90% of the metagame is 2HKOed by Seismic Toss, 252/252 Bold Jellicent is 2HKOed by Knock Off and even if you mispredict, nothing enjoys losing its item. That kind of pressure makes Wish-passing a breeze, and with Protect to heal herself Kangaskhan can outright beat most Pokémon she hits on the switchand she outright wins one-on-one against a significant amount of Pokémon. This set sure isn't sweeping left and right, but it supports a team like no other.




    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  2. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I'm not really sure whether Power-Up Punch will be that amazing. One very nice thing about Mega Kangaskhan is its ability to easily revenge everything with Fake Out + Sucker Punch. That combination is able to kill pretty much any offensive threat that is under 50% HP, and this ease of revenge killing is a very nice thing to have on balanced teams. If you choose to use Power-Up Punch, you have to either forgo your STAB, coverage (Power-Up Punch isn't nearly strong enough), or one of your priority moves, all of which aren't expendable. Also, generally using Power-Up Punch will be "wasting" up a turn for set-up because it's a really weak and unstabbed move; it is not going to be doing significant damage to anything. Sure, you can KO a (very) weakened Pokemon with Power-Up Punch, and then you in essence have both killed a Pokemon and set up to +2 in the same turn, but that will not happen very often.

    However, it is nice that Kangaskhan finally has access to a decent set up move. I can see Power-Up Punch being a great option on Kangaskhan, but Fake Out is also very nice as well!

    btw, Parental Bond does 1/2 the damage of the original damage. I and a few other people have tested this out in-game and vs each other.
  3. SirPainsalot

    SirPainsalot

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    Mind games with Kangaskhan will be key, the first turn when it switches in will force the opponent to guess what they're dealing with. Its normal form is not too shabby honestly. A sub set could work well with it. Sub/Power-Up Punch/Return/Earthquake

    Power-Up punch I think is more necessary than Fake Out/Sucker Punch, mainly because it provides Kangaskhan with the setup it so desperately needed this whole time. It's to make sure it kills, otherwise it loses some precious killing power vs walls.

    Last gen it was pretty underrated, this gen it shouldn't be at all. It's beastly.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  4. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    For reference, Kangaskhan does not learn Dragon Tail. It does get Circle Throw, but the phazing effect only happens on the second attack.

    Anyways, I just realized how awesome Body Slam would be on Mega Kangaskhan. Since Parental Bond has the potential to activate the special effect on each attack, you have a 51% chance of paralyzing a Pokemon with Body Slam. That's a pretty fantastic chance, and even though paralysis was nerfed slightly in XY, it's definitely worth missing out on a bit of extra damage by not using Return.
    Lovelace and The Leprechaun like this.
  5. 56k

    56k

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    Double hit: 35 base power normal move that hits twice. If the parental bond attack is 2/3 power then this move is effectively 116.67 base power attack spread over 4 hits. Interesting but I don't really see a use.

    Chip Away: 70 (116.67) Base power normal move that ignores stat boosts. Useful for something that used bulk up like a conkuldurr at middling HP

    Rock Tomb: 50 (83.33) Base power rock move that lowers targets speed. It is 80% accurate. You can sharply lower the speed of something like a gengar or scarf jirachi that switches in then fire off a crunch or earthquake.

    Bulldoze: Just like Rock Tomb but it is perfectly accurate, is ground type, and is 60 (100) Base power.

    Focus Punch: 150 (250) base power fighting move to be used after a substitute

    Seismic Toss: Guaranteed 166.67 damage against anything not a ghost.


    Utility Khan
    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    ??? HP / 252 Atk / ??? Speed
    Adamant
    -Fake Out
    -Bulldoze/Rock Tomb
    -Drain Punch/Dragontail/CircleThrow/...Coverage move?
    -Ice Punch/Thunderpunch/Crunch/Return

    Fake out gets you a megaevolution without taking a hit. Bulldoze and rocktomb can slow down potential switch ins like gengar (megagengar also doesnt have levitate), jirachi, celebi, gyarados, salamence, lati@s, and landorus. Fire away with your coverage move of choice. Drain punch is for longevity but to be honest i dont think many rock types or steel types will be taking you on, so switching it to another coverage move could work well. Speed Evs are completely meta and for base 100s it's really tough to decide.
  6. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Fake Out doesn't seem to have a point; the only thing special about the turn you Mega Evolve is that you're working with 90 base Spe instead of 100.
  7. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    56k, that set seems pretty bad to be honest. You say it's a utility set but frankly it has less utility than Fake Out / Sucker Punch / Body Slam / Earthquake (which besides attacking can easily revenge offensive mons / paralyze stuff etc) or whatever, and is much less good in general. You have no reliable STAB move, most of the attacks listed have dubious utility at best, and there are better coverage moves to use. Bulldoze actually seems pretty decent, as it lowers Speed by 2 stages, but I'd rather just use Earthquake for coverage. You have a very high chance of paralyzing stuff with Body Slam anyways and you have priority for fast Pokemon.

    Thorhammer, Fake Out is less about getting a "safe" mega evolution in -- although that's a small niche for it -- and more about allowing Kangaskhan to easily revenge whatever it wants in tandem with Sucker Punch.
    TIWSS likes this.
  8. EpixAura

    EpixAura

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    Are we sure that Power-up Punch activates on both hits? If so, that's spectacular.

    If that's the case, I would think Body Slam, Power-up Punch, and Sucker Punch would be an absolute must-have. You can only use the Mega Evolution once, so I think Kangaskhan will be more of a sweeper, or at least 'hole-puncher,' than a revenge killer. All the same, Fake-Out seems like it would be a viable option for the 4th move, competing with Earthquake and Drain Punch, so his revenge-killing potential isn't gone, just no longer necessary.
    Using him primarily as a revenge killer sort of feels like a waste of a Mega Evolution, although I may be overestimating how powerful Mega Evolutions actually are.
  9. 56k

    56k

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    Yes it's just me really wanting to see a use for that double speed drop, but I don't know if it's viable or surprise factor/gimmicky. Khan counters like skarmory might be bulky and slow to begin with. Sucker Punch is a great move but I always personally steer clear of it because some people can predict it and use, say, will-o-wisp, or even just switch out.

    When megas were announced, Khan caught my eye more than anything because of its ability, I hope it has potential for OU
  10. Mecawallace

    Mecawallace

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    I'm really feeling like:


    Kangaskhan @ Kanghaskhanite
    Ability: Parental Bond (Scrappy before the Mega Evo)
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Power Up Punch
    - Crunch
    - Double Edge

    I feel like that would be one of the best sets to run due to the obvious idea that the opponent will switch into a ghost type as soon as you bring out Kanga.
    You can fake out the first turn for any team that doesn't have a ghost or if it's ghost is already fainted. Power-Up Punching once is essentially just using swords dance with some meh damage, and then Double Edge after that will essentially dominate everything that doesn't resist it. However, using Double Edge is dangerous, though I'm pretty cray-cray when it comes to preferring a OHKO over a two.
  11. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Duck Hunting Dawg
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    since it attacks twice both attacks have seprate chances of missing right? which i guess is ok since it has 2 chances of hitting. that double body slam parahax tho. Its like a pesudo jirachi with body slam then. lol with a chance of para that high, bet it can run a pretty decent sub set. This is how it can go:

    - body slam
    - sub
    - sucker punch
    - power up punch/drain punch
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  12. vBlue

    vBlue

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    Kangaskhan @ Kanghaskhanite
    Ability: Parental Bond
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Body Slam / Drain Punch
    - Power Up Punch
    - Stomp
    - Crunch / Sucker Punch

    Surprised no one has mentioned Stomp as it gets a 51% chance to Flinch. It's hard to chose between 51% chance to Paralyze and more damage or Drain Punch recovery while also fitting in Ghost coverage but we'll see how tiers unfold.
  13. Attica

    Attica

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    Kangaskhan @ Kanghaskhanite
    Ability: Parental Bond
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Adament Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Power Up Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    Ive been using this set in the random online battle and it is an absolute beast! I send it out first and most times it just takes apart the first three pokemon. Ive had it regularly beat Yveltal, Xerneas and zygarde in a row, plus it can easily beat pokemon such as mewtwo(x or y), blaziken and mega gengar.

    I agree that there isnt a powerful stab move in there but its so easy to get +2 or even +4 with power punch and then EQ and SP just troll nearly everything. The only check ive found is charizard y and a couple of other flyers.

    Ive only checked this set with the random matchup, and i know at the moment there arent too many EV trained pokemon out there and come december when lots of the pre gen pokemon come back then there will be many other counters. How ever for now it is a beast! :)
  14. Yanni

    Yanni

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    This set crumbles to non-Mega Gengar. If they send in Gengar and set up a Substitute and Disable your Sucker Punch you cannot hit them. Sucker Punch will fail on either move, you cannot break their sub, switching out lets them Mega Evolve and keep their Substitute.
    Cheeze Ballz likes this.
  15. Attica

    Attica

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    This is true but then you could say this is the same for every kanga set which has been mentioned so far. Plus with non mega gengar you can just switch away.
  16. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    That is, of course, assuming that you HAVE Mega Evolved. You can always scout for Gengar in Team Preview, since Scrappy allows non-Mega Evolved Kanga to hit Gengar anyway.
    nathanael and Attica like this.
  17. Yanni

    Yanni

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    Standard Gengar beats Standard Kangaskhan. Scrappy lets you Fake it out and then it Subs up as usual and the situation doesn't change. If you try Sucker Punch you break its sub and die to Focus Blast, if it misses then the usual disabling Sucker Punch followed by Gengar destroying Kangaskhan before it can hit because its faster ensues. Non-Mega Evolved Kanga won't live to touch Gengar after Fake Out.

    Losing a turn and letting them set up a Sub isn't exactly a victory. The fact that every set gets stopped by Gengar is a problem that people need to be aware of and address, hence why I mentioned it.
  18. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    You act as though Kangaskhan will Sucker Punch like a blind man as Gengar sets up a Sub in its face. Kanga still has Scrappy so if Gengar goes for a Sub every turn you can similarly spam Body Slam thanks to Scrappy so Gengar loses HP until it has to use Disable or attack. This kinda sounds like a checkmate position for Gengar (Disable on a predicted Sucker Punch means you have a free Focus Blast), but now Gengar is at 25% or even single-digit HP if they had HP that wasn't divisible by four. It completely depends on how the battle plays out. Who's to say Gengar doesn't get greedy with a Focus Blast not behind a Sub and Kangaskhan reads that and Mega Evolves and Sucker Punches?
  19. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    I'd also like to know if Fake Out activates on both hits. One would think that a simple Steel switch-in would be enough to counter such an obvious move, but Kangaskhan can pretty easily chip away at anything besides Ferrothorn. Even then, there's Magnezone.

    Effects activating only after the Kanga-Kid attacks would be a real letdown.
  20. Grey Knight

    Grey Knight

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    I think that none mentioned the fact that now kangy is actually the only pokemon in the entire game that can make perfect use of Sub punch combo, it really seems to me too good to be true.



    Edit: Not only that but if the opponent has no faster poks kangy can spam 4 Focus punches and hide behind the sub every time !!
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
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  21. RoyalBlue

    RoyalBlue

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Power Up Punch essentially has 70 base power. Starts off as base 40 and then 20 more with Parental bond. But since you get the boost from the first P.U.P., the second hit will be base 30. This is still pretty low, but I think it's can still work well as a coverage move.
  22. Temporaryanonymous

    Temporaryanonymous
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    Seeing its defensive stats are even better than Jirachi's, could a paraflinch set work?

    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Scrappy
    Jolly 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 Spe (stolen right off Jirachi's set)
    -Fake Out
    -Body Slam
    -Headbutt
    -Bite

    Yeah, there's no Power up Punch, but Body Slam has an effective base 191 base power with a 51% rate of paralysis. Headbutt has an effective base power of 157 and a 51% of flinching. Using Headbutt on a paralyzed opponent will be about as effective as the flinchaxing of Jirachi and Togekiss. Bite is there if you're not good at predicting and it also has a great 51% of flinching. Normal+Dark now has almost perfect coverage.

    Kanga could also run a much stronger Earthquake or Bulldoze to counter Electric types, and Bulldoze helps drop enough speed that Kangaskhan can probably run minimal speed investment.

    Other options for Kanga:
    Return / Double-Edge / Facade can do a lot of damage with just the sheer force of Kanga's stats and ability.
    Rock Slide is also a great 30% flinch move that becomes 51% with two hits.
    Dizzy Punch has a decent 36% of confusion and can be coupled with Paralysis for parafusion.
    Secret Power has a 51% of activating its effect.

    I'm not sure if Counter will work. Anyone willing to test it? It'd be pretty cool if Counter retaliated 3 times as much damage.
    pick likes this.
  23. anubite

    anubite

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    I'm seeing three potential builds for Kangaskhan.

    1. Bulky

    Kangaskhan has great bulk in his megaform. 252 hp / 252 def or spd / 4 attack

    Drain Punch
    Power-Up Punch
    Crunch
    Bulldoze

    The threat to this set is anything which can OHKO MKhan, which is... well, it depends who's banned in the tier MKhan will be usable in. If Blazekin is in the same tier, you're going to need a ghost pokemon to switch to, or you'll need Talonflame or something to kill Blazekin before MKhan goes out. This set though would be incredibly scary after one Power-Up punch - and enemy ghosts just won't be able to endure even an unboosted set of crunches. The second greatest enemy to this set (and the next) is rocky helmet Ferrothorn, which you'll need someone else on your team to deal with.

    2. Revengy

    252 spe 252 atk

    Sucker Punch / Crunch
    Fake Out
    Body Slam (Gen 3, I think it's compatible)
    Earthquake / Anything

    Everyone has basically listed some form of this set already.

    3. Special Attacker?

    This one no has considered but it's worth pointing out MKhan has 60 base SpA, which, when parental bond comes into play... It's around 100 base SpA, which with MKhan's good bulk and decent typing... it means he's got potential as a gimicky surprise SpA'er. With the right weather, Thunder, Blizzard and Solarbeam are especially surprising options, but I'd envision a set like...

    Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    Shadowball
    Surf / Thunderbolt / Icebeam
    Uproar

    I think a double surf build would actually be very good if you've got Toxicroak or another dry-skin user on your side in a double/triple battle, but this set also has no trouble if someone thinks to try and wall you with somebody like Ferrothorn. It's also not vulnerable to an intimidate switch-in.

    4. Mixed Attacker?

    This one is probably even less likely to catch on, but I've tried it. It uses the same stats as MixMence: 64 Atk 192 SpA 252 Spe

    BoltBeamSomething
    BoltBeamSomething
    Power-Up Punch
    Earthquake / Crunch

    In addition to being surprising... it's hard to wall. Though, there are a number of pokemon who can wall this set, you can still OHKO (and outspeed) Blazekins without protect. It would be really weather dependent, as I think double thunder or double blizzard would be best.

    5. Elemental punch

    This has the best coverage but the lowest sustainability and is much easier to wall.

    Thunder Punch
    Ice Punch
    Fire Punch
    Earthquake / Crunch

    I don't think it's wise to try and rely on parafusion? Kangaskhan has some of the highest attack potential now of any pokemon in the game. If you can't absolutely demolish whatever it is you're hitting then you shoudln't be using Kangaskhan. Trying to hope for a flinchparafusion is a luck-based strategy on a pokemon that doesn't need it - Kangaskhan looks like he can deliver consistent beatings that don't rely on luck. Though, I admit, since you do get two hits, it would be interesting to investigate a focus energy build? What would be your chance to get a critical? That'd be pretty devastating to people who try to set up defenses on you.
  24. flUddOS

    flUddOS

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    Has anyone looked at Mud-Slap at all? -2 Accuracy is a LOT, and really hurts its counters, which rely on Fighting moves like Focus Blast and Hi Jump Kick to take it out. Unfortunately not available yet (HGSS move tutor), but probably a potent force.
  25. LastFootnote

    LastFootnote

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    Don't forget Bite. 51% flinch chance seems nice, assuming that Bite still has a 30% flinch rate.
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