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Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by The Leprechaun, Oct 14, 2013.
Scarf can't be tricked to a Pokemon holding a megastone ...
Some questionable statements here. Fake Out is such a wasted move slot on Mega Kangaskhan, it already has priority in Sucker Punch and would much rather use a coverage move over Fake Out. Crunch is possibly the best fourth moveslot after the mandatory PuP/Return/Sucker Punch. Giving it a way to get past common Ghost-types like Gengar, Trevenant or Jellicent is much more beneficial than EQ/Fire Punch in most scenarios. There aren't many other checks besides Bulky Ghosts anyway, so might as well eliminate these most common checks/counters. Stating that Mega Kangaskhan has no counters is nonsense ofcourse, every pokemon has counters (barring Shadow Tag shenanigans).
The problem is that Mega Kangaskhan has very little counters/checks, and it can destroy most of them with the appropriate coverage move (e.g. Crunch for Jellicent, Fire Punch for Skarmory), and it has no trouble sweeping through a team when they are out of the way because of it's bulk, raw power and priority Sucker Punch which has been pointed out and demonstrated before. Faster Fighting-types can revenge kill it, so can slower Fighting-types with priority like Conkeldurr/Breloom if Mega Kangaskhan is weakened enough. But this is looking into very specific ways just to beat Mega Kangaskhan. Sure, these pokes can beat Mega Kangaskhan 1 vs 1, but we don't mention all the other pokes in XY OU that have no way to stop a Mega Kangaskhan at +2. Centralizing is a big word, but we all see it happen in practice in tournaments and on the ladder. If you don't have a solid Mega Kangaskhan check (pretty much everyone does because they're forced to) your team is immediately at a huge disadvantage, more so than with any other OU poke. The limited amount of options to check Mega Kangaskhan lead me to say that it's broken and should be quickbanned.
Some of you all fail to realize that regular Kang has Scrappy. Meaning it can grab the +1 from PuP on a predicted ghost switch in, and then proceed to Mega-evolve. Just a little reminder.
Fake Out isn't necessarily useless. Functionally, Fake Out khan is similar to how Ambipom has always worked, with the difference being that it can stun through Substitutes--it does a notable amount of damage to faster Pokemon and can easily put opponents into the K-O range of Return or Sucker Punch (many Rotom-W for instance, are K-O'd by Return after a Fake Out before they can get a burn in). It's just that Kangaskhan has a serious case of 4MSS and generally has better options.
So I guess, similar to how people in the past generation's UU loved to use Ambipom, I doubt people will stop using Fake Out Kangaskhan anytime soon, because it's still an effective move, even if it isn't the best choice overall based on what moves it has available.
Mandibuzz has a really cool niche as being an extremely bulky dark type because all of a sudden, ghost is the best offensive attacking type, and dark is the only thing that resists it. Sure, its weak to rocks, but it has a decent base 80 speed, taunt, roost, toxic, defog, knock off, and even u-turn. It's really versatile and can fit into a lot of teams. Not to mention any mega pokemon that has not yet evolved can't directly switch in because they may get their mega stone knocked off.
It can still work if you predict them to switch in, if they haven't actually mega evolved yet. Of course, mega evolving has more priority than trick, so once you're mega you're safe from that.
Cofagrigus isn't THAT bad, he can do more than stopping mega kanga competely. Cofagrigus is just sort of a defensive niche specifically built for stopping mama bear. I will agree that sableye has more utility, but its bulk is nowhere near cofagrigus's or dusclops.
No, that doesn't work.
I'm on my phone. So I must be short.
The main reason why I support not quick banning mega khan is you can prepare for it, and it's too early to call it overcentralizing. It's viable and easy to slap a rOcky helm on poke and then khan loses 1/4(?) of its hp. Ghosts are great, and Its not too hard to burn it, or even status it. It NEEDS a trapper for ghosts/steels depending on moveset, a cleric, and a spinner(if worn down by spikes/rocks/web, it's easier to handle. It needs so much support to PuP on a team.
Oh, and the revenge killer and the wisher are more of supporters, might post after mOre experience with them.
In short, a kangaskhabite ban at the moment is unreasonable, as unlike g"mega gar, it has many conters
My bad, you're right. Just tested on showdown
You can't just slap a Rocky Helmet on any poke, it's only effective on defensive pokes like Ferrothorn, Skarmory or Garchomp and even then they really miss not having Leftovers. Also, taking 25% of its health isn't enough to kill it so Rocky Helmet alone won't cut it I'm afraid. Yes, Ghosts are great. But quite frankly Mega Kangaskhan 2HKO's them all at worst with Crunch as they come in, barring the never seen Cofagrigus and Dusclops. Statusing it is quite difficult when your bulky Rotom-W get's 2HKO'd by PuP + Return on the switch in, or flatout OHKO'd by +2 Return if it comes in later on. Even max HP/max Def Hippowdon is 2HKO'd by PuP + Return, just to give you an idea because you seem clueless about what kind of raw power Mega Kangaskhan has. No it does not need a trapper, nor a cleric, nor a spinner. Generally speaking, when it comes in (usually late game when your opponents team is softened) its going to do the job right then and there without switching out. When you have 105/100/100 defenses and only 1 weakness, you don't really mind let's say 25% damage from SR + 1 layer of Spikes, especially when you threaten so many pokes out. Sticky Web is a dedicated strategy. You can't just slap it on any team because only two viable pokemon have access to it, opposed to the countless pokemon that have access to Stealth Rock. It's also not very reliable with the Defog buff. So no, Mega Kangaskhan does not need much support at all. Many counters? I've only heard Sableye and Cofagrigus (Cofagrigus of all things...) as possible, somewhat reliable counters. Everything else checks it at best, not even taking into account its coverage options that let it beat many of its checks.
Rocky Helmet Skarmory is a perfectly fine counter.
Cofagrigus doesn't only mess with kanga though. In fact it stands up against several physically oriented megas by neutering their abilities (aerialite, huge power, adaptability, technician, etc.) Then again I always carry haze willowisp and pain split to usually guarantee a burn and getting back up to good health. Also azumarril doesn't like touching Cofa either.
Good lucking taking a PuP and a Fire Punch.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 300-354 (89.8 - 105.9%)
Let me stress this. Max HP/Max Def Skarmory. 2HKO'd by PuP and Fire Punch. Sure, you do 50% damage in the process but your "counter" is dead and Mega Kangaskhan is at +2 and alive. Please think before posting what you think is a counter, because Mega Kangaskhan sure doesn't give you a lot of options.
Guess I should have said Skarmory is a perfect counter on OU (not Pokebank OU).
Also, he does 67% to himself.
He has to carry Rocky Helmet or it's a check at best. Skarmory can only phaze it out without taking too much damage. If e.g. you come in on PuP and do anything else aside from Whirlwind then Mega Kangaskhan can PuP again. At that point, even a resisted Return will 2HKO.
+4 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 226-267 (67.6 - 79.9%)
Again that displays Mega Kangaskhan's raw power. Given it's at +4, but that's a resisted hit on max defense Skarmory. Valid point on the Pokebank OU though, I usually play on PO where Pokebank isn't implemented yet. And yeah I got confused with the calc, but the final result doesn't change. Skarmory's not a counter if Kanga runs Fire Punch.
Skarmory will typically Roost on the turn after he switches in, so even at +4, all Kang can do is kill himself (unless Fire Punch).
If he Roosts on the second PuP, he will take between 67 and 80% damage from Return the next turn, while again, the best it can do is phaze it out (Brave Bird doesn't do nearly enough trust me). Remember I was talking about Lefties Skarmory, not Rocky Helmet. That's why I said it has to carry Rocky Helmet otherwise it doesn't beat Mega Kanga. Even Rocky Helmet Skarm loses if it carries Fire Punch.
has anyone thought about my suggestion of using knock off? like i said before it stops rocky helmet pokes like skar from countering mega kanga
i have yet to encounter more than one Mega Khan that carries crunch on PS, or on DS. It's just not common. Every time i have switched my Def Dusclops into it, taken a normal type move, burned it, then comfortably out stall or switch. with DUSCLOPS of all things, DUSCLOPS (i make this point because you guys say it sucks, so i am countering it with a sucky mon, therefore, based on this communities logic, Khan should not be quickbanned.) While crunch will easily become a more common move and i won't be able to outstall it anymore, for now it works. Even with crunch, it still whiffed return on Dusclops, and i burned it. The most common set i see is
Fake Out, PUP, Sucker Punch, and Return. Thats it. I have only encountered one Crunch Khan, and it didn't have earthquake or PUP, so i ferrothorned it to death.
Is there anything that can outspeed Mega Kangaroo and will-o-wisp, while switching into return or earthquake?
Well lv1 Rattata with focus sash endeavor and quick attack beats Mewtwo Y, but that doesn't make it less uber does it?
Anyway, back on topic with something more constructive, I really think this guy centralizes the game a lot, even the omnipresent and obnoxious Rotom-W can't switch on him safely.
Talonflame can outspeed Kanga and of course take an earthquake, but not return.
Mismagius (lol Mismagius) is the only pokemon that can 100% go into return or earthquake and will-o-wisp before Kanga can move.
I just tested it, skill swap works with parental bond. And Deoxys attack gets skill swap. It will either be way to gimmicky, or, wreck entire teams and become the best thing ever in doubles!
Sableye @ Air Balloon
Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
I'm sorry, you forgot two essential moves to every Sableye set.
If you're not running these moves on a Sableye, you're doing it wrong.
Sorry, my bad. I'm not too familiar with using Sableye. All I knew was that Ghost typing plus fast or Prankster Wil-o-wisp was a good answer to Khan. The Air Balloon lets Sableye come in on predicted Earthquakes, and should Khan be running Crunch max Defense plus Recover should leave Sableye in a good position.