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BW UU kd, august, n shit present: The Fight Against Racism

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by kd24, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. kd24

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 21, 2007
    me n august wish we were black so we like to pretend - however this was met with harsh hostility at every turn, kicks, mutes, and even blantant racism - offended, we started buildin real teams n shit.

    august went offensive and makes amazing teams but that got kind of boring so i was like "ok nigga, i make a defensive team that will really be the shit"

    so i did ... and it was pretty good but not great

    but august, bein the motivatin nigga that he is, gave me some move suggestions that turned this team from cool to fuckin awesome. it was only 3 move suggestions but they were 3 important ones that made this team a complete dickhole to fight

    im also note the nigga g6 for being an asshole to ma boy august "jarome" smith.

    i should note that one of the reasons this team is our favorite is because of team preview - the only big weakness we found was pursuit, but because we can see them in team preview, it allows us to play against them much easier

    team at a glance

    Arcanine (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun
    - Toxic
    - ExtremeSpeed

    this thing is just as good as last gen ... i like it because this team doesn't really like ghosts (if i can't spin then ugh..) but arcanine beats every single one of them except that ground/ghost that no one uses. one of the best things about arcanine is extremespeed - a stall team doesnt really have counters lategame to fast sweepers which is something i dislike about them - so adding a strong exspeeder and a scarf mon (you'll see later) was really helpful. a lot of times, opponents will set up for one mon realizing they need to go all or nothing and then arcanine and my scarfer just finish them off. i would say azelf is the most common one.

    double intimidate with top is really good, and if you want to wall things in b/w, you can't settle on just using your defenses ... we needed to be able to lower the atk of everything as well. i will also say that nine is essential in absorbing will o wisp of other pokemon ... wisp taunt missy, wisp mew, etc can really fuck me up if i dont have arcanine


    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Stealth Rock

    probably the best pokemon in uu, i don't get why its not used on every team - it can sr, status, wish, or even heal bell, and is really more of an attacker - she is so good at walling that usually she can just kill most pokemon like flygon straight up without having to switch.

    august suggested heal bell here, as i originally had wish - this was a huge change for the better because more often than not, i was getting beat by other stall teams because my only spinner was getting worn down - chansey prevents that because now my spinner can rest and chansey can heal bell.

    stealth rock doesn't have anywhere else to go, but i love it on chansey - i can double switch into stuff like jolt, cune, milo, etc all the time and get my free sr.

    chansey has remained my favorite pkmn through all 5 gens - CHNSY!!!!

    Ferroseed (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball

    the second eviiolite user - drastically underrated. people really like roserade as the spiker to stall teams, but she is much frailer, weak to ice beam (meaning she cant really do as much against hail or ice beam sweepers like cune), and is lacking the best defensive type in the game in steel.

    holy fuck iron barbs is so good - it provides offense while we play defense and sr/spikes/iron barbs quickly stacks up.

    gyro ball is a bitch for people to play, it usually throws people off when they see how strong it hits (ferros weak but gyro ball is like max power) and it prevents non hp fire rose from spiking on me.

    i originally had toxic over protect until august reminded me how dumb that is - now i can scout things like scarf victini (will they uturn or vcreate?) and stuff like azelf to see if i can spike or if they will fthrower.

    i dont know what sound ferroseed makes but i imagine it to be a buzzing sound - BZZZZZZZZZZT!

    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Rest
    - Close Combat

    secondary rock wall next to cune, i usually need to save top for spinning, but if i dont see any spikes user i will be much more lenient with letting him wall early.

    top's close combat is strong as hell (180 bp!) and people seem to forget that when they switch random things in. it can ohko a ton of things when i have sr and spikes up, and more often than not against a slower team, top can end up ccing everything for game (lots of teams are like empoleon/chansey/rhyperior/mew or deoxys-d/flying-type/ghost - usually this is an easy 3 man job of arcanine/top/cune to beat these teams, top just tossing around close combats until stuff eventually dies to sr or repeated switching)

    if canine and ferro are both weakened down, foresight + chansey is a last ditch effort for mismagius... don't let your mons get weakened

    if you use this team, and they have spikes up and sr up - don't be dumb, just foresight the first time if they have a ghost. the next times spikes/sr get set up its a lot more annoying but hopefully it doesn't come to that...

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Reflect
    - Rest

    holy crap this thing is good - not only is it almost impossible to kill, it completely walls things like azumarill being able to reflect first and then i can even scald for a chance of burn. am i overloading on defense? hell yeah, because cune can beat almost any physical attacker in the game 1 on 1, and if something gets too strong like curselax, i can roar it out for entry hazard damage.

    cune provides reflect which when combined with double intimidate - is almost unbreakable - it also gives mismagius an out to surviving pursuit when we need it to. it also takes a giant shit on stuff like last mon curselax, as i can combine seed with fero, intimidates, and cune reflect to make it pretty much useless.

    its funny, in all my times usng this team, ive never used rest, but if something is lurking around that i need cune for, i can use it and chansey can heal bell, giving cune a new life.

    roar is so important its not even funny - hes my only phazer and if you can't roar out big threats, then you don't really stand a chance - a lot of times i need to roar out weird stuff like dd crawdaunt that catches me off guard

    i actually always used bold 252 hp 252 def but august told me to switch to 8 speed - good change, because it outroars out cm roar cunes maxin their stats.

    Mismagius (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt

    the most important role of the team - not only as an anti spinner but because it revenges all that annoying crap like zam, azelf, jolteon, sceptile, etc.

    this is probably the best anti spin, not only because of wisp which makes phan and non rest top useless, but because i can also trick them while they foresight or, if they foresight as i switch in, i just trick to completely screw them over as they spin - then i can set up my sr and spikes again and they will not have any means to spin, unless they can pursuiters

    pursuiters are gay btw lol, against scarf krook i have to wisp which usually takes them by surprise but doom is really annoying - luckily, its kind of obvious when they are coming in. however, it can be a pain when they go top on something like chansey, then switch right to doom as i go missy - then im fucked :(
  2. august

    august the worst season
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Nov 25, 2007
    threat list:
    [​IMG]-Abamasnow - this means hail which is really annoying, but arcanine completely beats it, usually offensive hail won't have a real flare blitz switch in, but if its defensive hail, then its either nidoqueen or a bulky water coming - that makes it a little harder but ill usually toxic and if its queen, ill grimace and switch to top to at least spin or foresight and spin.

    hail stall is probably the most annoying team to fight because they are playing a completely different style than what i want this team to fight.
    [​IMG]-Absol - hitmontop walls it to hell and back with intimidate. if for some reason its dead or it crits with sd psycho cut, i can go cune and reflect or missy and wisp as they likely sucker punch, depending on hp.
    [​IMG]-Accelgor - top can spin against spikes, but arcanine can also beat it ... im not sure what this thing really does besides that but if its setting up, go right to cune and roar.
    [​IMG]-Aerodactyl - i actually like using ferroseed in this match up, as gyro ball does a ton and aero can't really touch me. if ferros weak or i need to seed things like cune, i can go to top who also resists stone edge and can intimidate cc or spin.
    [​IMG]-Aggron - this thing can be really scary if you ever see it, be sure to keep top alive if you see it in team preview - cune can do a fair amount with scald or set up reflect when aggrons not in incase it comes in later.
    [​IMG]-Alakazam - zam usually can get a ko if chanseys weak enough because of psyshock, but i usually can shadow ball with mismagius for a revenge kill which they never see coming - canine can exspeed as well. the best move is to go ferro, and switch back to missy to revenge - if ferros close to dying or dead weight, sac it and let missy come in without the risk of them being stupid and random attacking.
    [​IMG]-Ambipom - go to ferroseed on fake out, protect to scout fire punch, if its u-turn, spike up, if its taunt, you can spike or gyro ball it really depends on how good you think they are. this really cant do much i mean - tops/nine/cune/wisp missy all give it headaches
    [​IMG]-Arcanine - cune is my best answer to this i guess ... hes kind of annoying but he really dies early because of sr lo and recoil - a lot of times im just going canine or missy to revenge it because its already at such low health.
    [​IMG]-Archeops - lol, this thing could be trouble - sr should definitely be up before he comes in, if not, cune at least causes huge trouble for it since it won't 2hko. if i need to missy can revenge. one of the worst things about this is neither top or nine is safe. ferroseed makes a decent switch-in too so its either him or cune depending on situations.
    [​IMG]-Armaldo - top spins it and the sd x scissor stone edge isnt harming top at all - cune is the second best, being able to scald or reflect, and mismagius could be the final revenger.
    [​IMG]-Azelf - missy outspeeds and kos with shadow ball, this thing can't really switch in on stuff but if it does, im usually going arcanine or ferroseed (ferro can protect to scout for fire moves).
    [​IMG]-Azumaril - cune switches in, reflects, and then scalds or roars depending on what is likely to switch in - i also have ferroseed who takes everything but superpower and delivers iron barb damage.
    [​IMG]-Bisharp - competitive spirit is annoying, but even then, top can ohko with close combat - i'll try to avoid it though and bring in cune to reflect and then scald.
    [​IMG]-Braviary - eh, cune is the best bet here but this is one of the pokemon im glad i don't see more often.
    [​IMG]-Cacturne - arcanine and top really do a number on cacturne, if its a spiking varient then definitely top. if i bring in top and it nps, im going right back to nine lol.
    [​IMG]-Celebi - yikes, best move here is arcanine who can flare blitz is - but nasty plot is annoying. luckily, missy can revenge with shadow ball or trick if its hp is too high to be koed. chansey, cune, ferro, and top all lose so this is important to take down.
    [​IMG]-Charizard - sr hurts it bad, and cune can pretty much beat all sets - good lord, if it got a belly drum in somehow, arcanine can exspeed it or mismagius can shadow ball revenge but i hope it never comes to that.
    [​IMG]-Cobalion - hitmontop is my first switch-in because most are sd versions - for the rare cm version, ive done my best to play around it, such as going missy and tricking if i need to, or going arcanine if i have enough health.
    [​IMG]-Crawdaunt - Hitmontop is the immediate switch in. Suicune can Reflect + Roar. Iron Barb damage with Ferro if it doesnt run Superpower is always pretty cool
    [​IMG]-Crobat - i like bringing in ferro to this because all of its moves are physical contact and i can do some damage with gyro ball. if i need to, missy can revenge with shadow ball surprise (bats normally faster so they might stay in) and arcanine can intimidate and do some damage - if im bring in canine, its not on bb, its on a definite taunt.
    [​IMG]-Druddigon - i bring in top for this because of intimidate and the risk of superpower vs ferroseed - if it outrages, im switching to ferroseed and spiking if i get a chance. hes taking damage from iron barbs
    [​IMG]-Eelectross - never played one but its chansey for this fool
    [​IMG]-Electabuzz - arcanine does a number on him because no eq (?) but chansey can stoss it too without too much risk.
    [​IMG]-Electivire - probably a bit more dangerous than buzz, if its physical im going top, if its mixed i can ... i dunno lol - but its never ohkoing anything and not really too dangerous. at worst, im probably losing something and then revenging with missy or finishing it off with the nxt pkmn.
    [​IMG]-Emboar - suicune is a good answer to this, missy once again can be useful in revenging if needed.
    [​IMG]-Entei - suicune is a solid answer to this
    [​IMG]-Escavalier - arcanine is always the best switch - you ohko, they cant touch you after intimidate. never a threat - if its cb pursuit, i could lose missy but that situations not too likely. something to watch out for though.
    [​IMG]-Feraligatr - annoying ... i like reflect cune, intimi top, and ferroseed here although fera has the power to break through things. because it cant use aqua jet with its dw ability, missy can be a safe revenge if needed.
    [​IMG]-Floatzel - much more confident about cune here, even if taunts i can scald burn - the worst would be sub bulk up taunt waterfall ... i dont think anyone in the history of the world will ever use that and cune will still wall that thing.
    [​IMG]-Flygon - chansey oddly enough since when i fight one, it leads and i lead chansey - sr as it u-turns, early advantage. if its outraging, i get my free spikes with ferro, but usually just go chansey, softboiled, then switch to whats best. its not strong enough to beat reflect scald cune either.
    [​IMG]-Frosslass - arcanine beats it but yeah, itll get its spikes up so keep top alive for later and pray to god that they decided "hey ill just use one ghost - the one thats spiking huauahua"
    [​IMG]-Gallade - arcanine and cune are awesome here, cune can reflect and scald against any set - if its bulk up sub sdef ill reflect and then roar out to deal with it later - missy can deal with it later.
    [​IMG]-Galvantula - thsi thing always crits me, but i like chansey here for stossing and then softboiling - but hes a bitch lol
    [​IMG]-Gigalith - hitmontop is good answer
    [​IMG]-Glaceon - arcanine wins all day
    [​IMG]-Gorebyss - chanseys pretty safe, missy can outspeed after shell smash and shadow ball - but he could be dangerous if he got going or baton passed (was that banned ..? i almost never see them, but then i saw one and didnt say anything)
    [​IMG]-Hariyama - if its defensive ill try and scald with cune, if its offensive i come in and reflect and then roar out - don't need it getting guts.
    [​IMG]-Herracross - it feels like me and august always pick a dif mon to deal with this lol, i guess i love any combo of arcanine/top/cune/missy and letting ferro protect against choice mons to see.
    [​IMG]-Hitmonchan - hitmontop is my favorite here but if theres a chance of spin, i can go missy and then wisp (it could spunch)
    [​IMG]-Hitmonlee - hey its the exact same as chan
    [​IMG]-Hitmontop - much more likely spinner, go missy and trick or wisp depending on what it does.
    [​IMG]-Honchkrow - i like cune here with reflect but honch is one boss nigga - arcanine can be decent with intimidate and then just go back to cune.
    [​IMG]-Houndoom - suicune walls
    [​IMG]-Huntail - once again suicune is a safe answer, roaring him out. if no sub, ferroseed can take everything and seed
    [​IMG]-Jolteon - ferroseed can spike up vs it, chansey can sr vs it - im guaranteed hazards and its not doing crap.
    [​IMG]-Jumpluff - ferroseed is safe to gyro ball and not be seeded - arcanines one of those last resorts.
    [​IMG]-Kabutops - hitmontop and cune do well here, if its primed to spin just go mismagius and wisp or sball it depending on health.
    [​IMG]-Kingdra - ferroseed is a safe choice, one of my favorite things to do is vs bulkier ones, bring in missy and keep shadow balling as i can outspeed a lot of them even after +2 (i guess popular opinion is +2 to beat base 100s but end there ... so dumb lol)
    [​IMG]-Klinklang - arcanine/top
    [​IMG]-Krookodile - hitmontop but really good pokemon - one of the major reasons i prefer max def on top. if its in on missy, i have to wisp, because pursuit is so lame -.-
    [​IMG]-Lanturn i like ferroseed here, but for sub charge beam i am usually at a big disadvantage and have to go top to break, arcanine to toxic, and chansey to wall. i dont think ive ever been in that bad of a situation though.
    [​IMG]-Leafeon - arcanine does a number on it
    [​IMG]-Ludicolo - spa versions are bested by chansey - phsycial have trouble fighting the combo of ferro + top
    [​IMG]-Magmortar - scarier than most fire-types because of tbolt, i like arcanine and chansey here.
    [​IMG]-Mamoswine - hitmontop and cune are usually safe to bring in but hes one of those guys where you just have to rely on sr and spikes
    [​IMG]-Manectric - if its leading i go mismagius then switch back to chansey as i assume its switcheroo/volt switch/tbolt/fthrower - another safe switch is arcanine who can fblitz - definitely annoying to fight though
    [​IMG]-Medicham - bl ban it - or at least play around it - i have intimidaters, a bulky cune, and a ghost, a HJK weak mon with protect - its probably going to kill itself before it causes too much damage.
    [​IMG]-Mespirit - mismagius, arcanine and chansey handle pretty much all of them.
    [​IMG]-Mismagius - ferro seed is solid since i run more sdef than KD (2hkos with gyro ball) but KD prefers Arcanine, either way, missy isnt a threat ... foresight/chansey if it becomes one
    [​IMG]-Nidoking - scary boy :s, chansey is needed for him and missy is for revenging - cune can survive 1 tbolt and scald but yeah... keep chansey alive lol
    [​IMG]-Ninjask - cune roars and arcanine is useful as well - but usually just go cune
    [​IMG]-Porygon-Z - this can run dangerous sets and for that i still like going chansey and then missy if it sharpens or something - then go back to top or wisp. jabba promoted this but i never see it so i guess jabba sucks
    [​IMG]-Pinsir - i bring in top to spin and when they stop sring i go arcanine for that double intimidate but its another underrated sweeper
    [​IMG]-Primeape - i prefer top as it will likely u-turn - if it comes back in on ferro i scout the move and switch again. as with most fighting-types they are basically wearing themselves out and i just try to survive their onslaughts.
    [​IMG]-Quilfish - top to spin and intimidate, fish doesn't really do anything vs him but i dont as well ... so then i go to missy and do some damage.
    [​IMG]-Raikou - chansey :)
    [​IMG]-Rapidash - arcanine is safe i think, especially with toxic. it can beat special and phsycial sets thanks to intimidate and his resists.
    [​IMG]-Roserade - if its got hp fire i go arcanine, if it doesnt i go ferroseed and spike up or gyro ball - be sure to look for opportunities with top
    [​IMG]-Rotom-F - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Rotom-H - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Rotom-S - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Rotom-C - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Sceptile - arcanine, but ferro if its sub/seed/toxic/giga drain which is for some reason becoming popular.
    [​IMG]-Scoilepede - annoying pokemon but if its spiking i have top to deal with it and arcanine does the double intimidate later and flare blitz. cune can reflect and then hopefully burn later.
    [​IMG]-Scyther - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Sharpedo - ferroseed does a great job and uses time to spike
    [​IMG]-Shaymin - arcanine is switch-in number 1 because seed versions annoy chansey :(
    [​IMG]-Shedinja - "hazards"
    [​IMG]-Shiftry - arcanine and top have the double intimidate and wall both spectrums of physical/special
    [​IMG]-Slaking - top is the first switch in if i need to spin, especially because he could fire punch ... then i just play carefully.
    [​IMG]-Slowking - i like arcanine switching in and then using toxic even though it costs a lot of health, i can morning sun and then eventually go to chansey. mismagius revenges when its low
    [​IMG]-Tauros - hitmontop and ferro because cb double edge can hurt tops :(
    [​IMG]-Togekiss - i hate this thing, i usually try to toxic with arcanine but these (BAN ME PLEASE) are prepared for that even - mismagius tricking can be a savior with heal bell chansey waiting.
    [​IMG]-Typhlosion - arcanine
    [​IMG]-Ursaring - top is my safest bet
    [​IMG]-Venomoth - arcanine again, even with the risk of sleep powder, they cant do much vs me.
    [​IMG]-Victini - scary boy, not really ... cune and arcanine stop it dead, chansey handles all versions except cb..
    [​IMG]-Weavile - hitmontop and arcanine laugh at this
    [​IMG]-Whiscash - if its ever used i go to ferro and seed it or mismagius and trick it - its one of those mons that seems like it would be good but really isnt that impressive.
    [​IMG]-Xatu - ooo man hes a bugger, i always avoid entry hazard setting with him alive, instead focusing on just drawing him out and dealing what damage i can. hes a horrible attacker though so its not too hard to outlast him.
    [​IMG]-Yanmega - with sr up its not too much of a threat and missy outspeeds even after a boost - that being said, im going chansey or arcanine lol.
    [​IMG]-Zangoose - hitmontop
    [​IMG]-Zoroark - its wearing a disguise :( but arcanine...

    other key mons like zapdos are walled by chansey j/s...

    for opposing stall, Ferroseed + Mismagius dominate pretty hard, and a lot of other bulkier stall teams use Dusclops, which is no problem at all for Hitmontops to Foresight Spin. The only problematic opposing stall pokemon is Fast Taunt Deoxys D, as you basically have to burn it with Suicune. Other than that, Ferrothorn easily Spikes against Roseade and our whole team spreads around status like a champ. it also helps that the only mon immune to leech seed on most stall is Roserade/Celebi, Rose gets 2hko'd by Gyro Ball and Defensive Celebi is Spike fodder.

    also i used this team on a lot of accounts including living colour and lost only once so its pretty anti metagame and awesome in general. i use a couple things that are slightly different than KD but thats up to your imagination to try to figure out

    peaked 5th
  3. IronBullet

    IronBullet Astronomy Domine
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Oct 14, 2009
    Hey guys,

    Very solid stall team, but you are very weak to NP + Heal Bell Togekiss, as most stall teams are today. There's barely anything you can do other than trick it a Scarf with Mismagius. It's naturally hard for stall to deal with this guy, but the best check I can give you guys is to replace Mismagius with Scarf Rotom. Rotom can still Trick and Will-o-wisp, but is less susceptible to Pursuit from Houndoom with STAB Thunderbolt OHKOing after Spikes and SR. It can easily 2HKO Togekiss with Thunderbolt while resisting Air Slash. It still revenge kills all the Pokemon that you mentioned, and can be used as a last ditch effort against physical sweepers with WoW. It also gives you an important Flying resist, since currently you have none although theoretically you're not horrendously weak to either Swellow or Scyther. The EVs are up to you, but I would recommend running enough speed for Adamant Scarf Heracross, maximizing special attack, and dumping the rest into HP. Use a Timid nature so that you can put more EVs into bulk. A set of Thunderbolt | Shadow Ball | WoW | Trick should work well. You currently also have no way to hit Water types super-effectively. Bulky Waters can hence be troublesome for your team to get rid of, so Rotom helps out in that regard too.

    One of the downsides of losing Mismagius is that you lose Taunt to hurt opposing stall teams, so if you would consider Calm Mind over Reflect on Suicune to set up a sweep would really help out in that regard. Most teams have practically no answer to this guy late-game, and it really helps for you to end a match on your own terms. I don't know how valuable Reflect is, but it does seem like you can survive without it with two Intimidators and a Pokemon with immunities to Fighting and Ground, two prominent physical attacking types.

    Good luck, great to see a rmt from you guys!
  4. Snunch

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Jun 23, 2010
    While uncommon, your team struggles with swords dance grass types. Celebi is the most common, and it will grab a free boost off of Suicune or Ferroseed and KO your Arcanine switchin with +1 Zen Headbutt most of the time after rocks. It can sucker punch to prevent the Mismagius revenge kill, or simply tank the shadow ball and KO back if it is concerned about trick. SD Unburden Sceptile 6-0's you with leaf blade / earthquake / acrobatics. Leafeon can't do much about being burned by Mismagius, but can SD and OHKO your Arcanine swichin with Double-Edge. Chansey could take a hit from these pokemon, but without status is just set-up fodder.

    To alleviate this and help against SD Heracross (which you struggle against but can beat with good play) and Honchkrow, I recommend changing Suicune to physically defensive Zapdos with Heat Wave. Zapdos also counters Togekiss, which as IronBullet showed is a major weakness.

    EDIT: Toxic Arcanine counters fire types like Victini and other Arcanine
  5. august

    august the worst season
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Nov 25, 2007
    Thanks guys, i'll definitely try both of those suggestions!

    The only thing i'm a little worried about with Zapdos is fire-types like Emboar, Entei, Victini etc since Arcanine can't Wisp them and is Stealth Rock weak

    EDIT: tried zapdos and promptly won 3 games, pretty solid

    my conclusion is that its a better overall team with Suicune, but with Zapdos its a much better ladder team because its more geared towards covering everything
  6. kd24

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 21, 2007
    i like the rotom change im not entirely sure about zapdos for the same reasons august was although he says he had success - i'll give it a try but i am worried about more common fire-types than i am sd grasses and a second sr weak puts a lot of pressure on top to spin.

    that being said, thanks for the rates and ill try them out as well
  7. risenreturn


    May 21, 2011
    This is more or less a gimmicky idea, but how about replacing intimidate on arcane with flash fire? Ferreoseed is going to attract fire attacks like magnet, while hitmontop, being a physical sweeper, will most likely be taking a couple will-o-wisps, and you can utilize that for a almost-guaranteed flare blitz boost.

    Again, kinda gimmicky, and easy to anticipate, but can work wonders.
  8. Howard


    Jul 13, 2011
    If you kept reflect on Cune and switched Intimidate for Flash Fire, that could be a good addition. However, if you switched Cune for Dos, the keep intimidate on Arcanine to keep the double physical reduction on your team. Good looking team guys. I would hate to play it.

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