kd24's BW Hall of Fame

[Sam]

^Not really. I don't think Genosect did any more in BW2 than Darkrai, Shaymin-S, or Drizzle + Kingdra did in round 1 of BW.

I don't think they are as comparable, since the metagame wasn't nearly as defined for the first two, and the Drizzle + SS stuff is addressed with Politoed. Genesect shook up a somewhat stable metagame (BW2 had already been out for over a month iirc). Sure Torn-T was still there and Keldeo wasn't used much in the Genesect meta but I don't think what you listed and Genesect are really comparable.

 

[Chou Toshio]

And I think they are. The stability when the threat came out isn't even part of kd's criteria

 

[Nyara]

Genesect was maybe the best Pokémon on OU, but, yeah, he just wasn't there too much time to make something memorable at all. I think Garchomp was important on the story and relevant itself, he literally changed at 100% the mentality towards suspects and bans and thus the meta followed him (a metagame with a profound hate towards "hax" and "we ban things for certain Pokémon"), and now is still a symbol of the boosting and hyperoffensive style. Terrakion by other hand redifined the words of "strong bulky attacker" as being just almost as fast as Venusaur (under the sun) with a Scarf, having flawless STABs, having an obscene power to use it and at the same time, is bulky as hell under the sand, being one of main names of the current sand teams.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^I have no idea where people get this idea about Genosect being the best OU poke-- it's pretty wide spread, but no.

Genosect was never anywhere as good (or awful?) as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Drizzle Kingdra, or Deoxys-A (all of which were allowed in Round 1 BW). Even Pokemon like Blaziken, Excadril, Thundurus-I and Manaphy could certainly give Genosect a run for its money in terms of "broken".

Fun fact: Shaymin-S (BW) is the only pokemon to ever receive a 100% ban vote in the history of the 4th-5th gen suspect tests (oddly, Shaymin-S DPPt got banned by a less than 10% margin).

 

[Tassa]

Nah, there was another 100% in gen 4, in UU if I remember correctly. (EDIT : Kyurem was banned of BW-UU with 100%, too)
About Genesect I wasn't here during his era so I cannot say to which point he was broken, but seeing his 50% during Kyu-B suspect test and even his #6 in 1850 stats of Ubers (yeah I know for the second, it's not the same meta), I wouldn't be so affirmative.

 

[Haruno]

Nah, there was another 100% in gen 4, in UU if I remember correctly. (EDIT : Kyurem was banned of BW-UU with 100%, too)
About Genesect I wasn't here during his era so I cannot say to which point he was broken, but seeing his 50% during Kyu-B suspect test and even his #6 in 1850 stats of Ubers (yeah I know for the second, it's not the same meta), I wouldn't be so affirmative.

Gene is surprisingly better in ubers than in ou because of it's god tier speed (only common things that out speed its scarfed set is scarfed terra/palkia). That's not to say that it wasn't genesects meta when it was in ou, but Chou pretty much listed a good amount of mons that dominated the meta when they were around. I still have no idea why vena is 3rd though, it was never all that IMO.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Yeah, Gene is a lot more useful in Ubers because of all the pokes weak to bug, relying on Dragon/Ice attacks, and the high frequency of 90/95 base speed pokes.

Stuff like Shaymin-S or Blaziken is a lot more broken in OU.

 

[Pocket]

I believe Genesect is far more influential than simply for (Volt-Turns). For me, it singlehandedly made one of my special HO team unusable, because Scarf Genesect's +1 U-turn would kill everything or switch out to a counter. Genesect (combined with Tornadus-T) killed Virizion, Haxorus, and Hydreigon's usage, mons that were quite a force back in BW1, and we started to see the rise in Scarf Latios, which I believe was triggered to lure and kill Genesect.

Also Deoxys-S deserves a spot - it defined Heavy Offense of BW1 (and 2?) for the longest time, ever since the inception of mostwanted's Apocalypse team ~2 years ago. Even after Deoxys-S was banned, Deoxys-D simply took over to preserve essentially the same HO playstyle. Deoxys-S is what really propelled HO teams to be as dominating as they are today, even without the powerhouses like Sheer Force Landorus. All the Spike-stacking Volt-Turn Heavy Offense were realized because of Deoxys-S's presence.

I largely agree with kd24's HoF, except that I would replace Reuniclus and Dugtrio for Genesect and Deoxys-S. As Chou Toshio mentioned, Reuniclus's OTR set fizzled out once people knew how to deal with it (ie don't give it a free turn to set up TR). Dugtrio's trapping capabilities has existed since ADV - yes it does hold sway in the weather wars, but it's certainly less influential than Genesect & Deoxys-S, both of which drastically shook the meta. Dugtrio would probably make it in the top 15 or top 20 of influential mons.

 

[MMII]

Yeah, Gene is a lot more useful in Ubers because of all the pokes weak to bug, relying on Dragon/Ice attacks, and the high frequency of 90/95 base speed pokes.

Actually, due to the relative fragility of OU mons vs Uber mons I'd say Genesect was more threatening. It was a lot easier for him to threaten outright KO's in OU which made it even easier for him to steal momentum with U-Turn or punish risky plays. In Ubers, Pokemon often switch out because they don't want to throw away 70%ish to kill a Genesect more than being threatened with a clean KO. (or they aren't even bothered at all since Genesect's limited coverage and power don't pose a threat to them) This is kinda off topic so....

I disagree on Deo S being added simply because suicide Spike setters really isn't new. Genesect is also quite shaky for the reasons already outlined. If Dug/Reuni is going to be dropped, I'd rather see them replaced with a Terrakion.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Melee Mewtwo^ That post of mine had an unsaid "relative to Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and Rain Kingdra." At the end of it, based on the context of the conversation.

 

[Scubasteve23]

Although I agree with a lot of the things on this list, I do think that Terrakion should be on that list. He is quite important to the metagame and has changed a lot of the ways that people build teams.

 

[Kidogo]

Cool list kd, terrakion should definitely be on there though imo. Terra has been the standard for physical attackers since it was released, the posterboy of power creep. Terra began to define 108 as the benchmark for truly fast sweepers in the same way that salamence in dpp meant you needed something with at least base 100. terra has been a huge factor in the dominance of offense > stall, in sand's continuing presence, it was the first common OU mon with sets like double dance, rock gem, even subsalac's popularization has been largely due to terra.

IMO reuniclus is the least deserving on that list. What you say about it is true, but my issue with it is that reuniclus was so ridiculously hyped that we had a hard time figuring out whether or not it really lived up to its reputation. It's true that it did demolish stall, but so much does that this gen, i dont know if thats really enough to keep it there.

Other mons: personally, i dont think latios should be that high, sure it's threatening but it never had the impact of stuff like dnite (another dragon--on the list). Exca should be wayyyy higher--come on, it WAS the meta for a while. I'd put it right after landy honestly. Venusaur shouldn't be that high, I totally get your argument about it being venu rather than tales that "makes" sun, but as you said--sun hasn't been that big of a deal. More like #10 or even higher imo, I could see it just barely making the cut. Dnite should be #3, top 2 are obv and right. Duggy is good, I totally agree with it being on there--it defined sun as much as venu imo (which is why it should be as high as venu) while partnering fantastically with mons like gene and torny-t (which is why it should be higher than venu). Rotom-w so deserves to be on the list, as you said it WAS volturn. It also took on a whole new role as an all-purpose SpD mon, checking torny, landy, rain abusers, etc. A great example of how balance has flourished this gen.

Tl;dr: my order would be something like:
1. Toed
2. Ferro
3. Dnite
4. Landy
5. Exca
6. Jelli
7. Volc
8. Duggy
9. Rotom-w
10. Terrakion
11. Venu
12. Not sure what would go here. Breloom is one option, it totally shook up the meta--spore + super-powerful priority with good typing was huge. Latios mebbe. I don't really think any of the "insta-ubers" really should count--yeah they were broken, so the meta revolved around them for a while but...they didnt really do anything new. Deo-s was replaced by deo-d is being replaced by custap leads and what-not. Gene was strong, but was just another very powerful sweeper with good coverage really, which isn't new at all by now. Xatu or tenta are both possible, as they sorta defined playstyles (sun offense and rain stall, respectively), much as rotom-w defined volturn.