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Kecleon (Update) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by scorpdestroyer, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Took over from Lasagne21
    [​IMG]
    Now you see me

    [Overview]

    <p>Kecleon is not a great Pokemon in the NU metagame. While it has great special bulk, which allows it to take several special attacks, as well as a wide movepool that makes it unpredictable, its ability in Color Change makes it extremely easy to play around, letting opponents hit it for super effective damage when they normally couldn't. The fact that its STAB is constantly changing also means that it has to rely on Foul Play to deal consistent damage. Therefore, Kecleon really only works as a bulky Pokemon, and not a good one at that.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Foul Play
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kecleon can make use of its above average special bulk to set up Stealth Rock in front of special attackers. Color Change also allows it to wall several Pokemon such as special Samurott lacking Taunt and Choice Scarf Jynx. Recover allows Kecleon to keep itself healthy against the onslaught of special attackers. Foul Play is used as Kecleon's attacking option, as its Attack stat is subpar and it rarely receives a STAB boost on any move due to Color Change. Foul Play also deals heavy damage to Golurk. Kecleon can also be a decent status spreader, with Toxic crippling walls and Thunder Wave crippling fast opposing attackers; both can potentially pave the way for a teammate's sweep. It should be noted that it is very easy for opponents to take advantage of Color Change to expose Kecleon to super effective attacks. For instance, Charizard can use a combination of Hidden Power Grass and Fire Blast to easily KO Kecleon. As such, Kecleon should always be used with caution.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magic Coat is a decent move on Kecleon, allowing it to bounce status moves, entry hazards, and Taunt back at the opponent. Return can be used over Foul Play, but it is usually weak due to Kecleon's ever-changing typing. Because Kecleon can slow down faster foes with paralysis, teammates that appreciate the opponent's team getting slowed down are decent. Sawk, Ursaring, and Samurott are good examples. Physically defensive Pokemon are also great partners as they cover up Kecleon's weaker defensive stat. Musharna is a great example as it can provide cleric support, as well as taking the Fighting-type hits that threaten Kecleon before Color Change activates. Dark-type Pursuit trappers are also nice teammates to have because they deter opponents from bringing in Pokemon such as Heal Bell Synchronize Musharna that can beat Kecleon. Skuntank and Sneasel are good examples.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Kecleon can support the team with various field effects, such as weather and Trick Room. It can also carry a Choice item along with Trick to cripple opposing walls, but due to Kecleon's lack of power and low Speed, this isn't recommended. Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move to pick off weakened foes and somewhat mitigates Kecleon's low Speed. Shadow Sneak can also be used, but it is much weaker. Disable is a decent surprise move and often comes in handy by Disabling Ghost- and Dragon-type moves and preventing the opponent from taking advantage of Color Change. However, Kecleon's low Speed means prediction is required. Aqua Tail can be used to defeat opposing Stealth Rock users such as Camerupt and Golem. Knock Off is an option to cripple certain opposing Pokemon by taking away their items. Kecleon can be used as an offensive Pokemon and has access to boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Hone Claws. However, Kecleon is weak and outclassed by many other offensive Pokemon. Counter can be used to surprise physical attackers in tandem with a Focus Sash. Kecleon also has a wide range of special attacks at its disposal, but its horrible Special Attack stat means it can't make use of this.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Almost any Pokemon that has more than one move and isn't wielding a Choice item can easily take advantage of Color Change by first attacking with a coverage move to change Kecleon's type and following up with a move that is super effective. Before Kecleon changes its typing, Fighting-type attackers, such as Sawk and Gurdurr, can obliterate it easily, although Sawk does not enjoy switching into Thunder Wave. Unless Kecleon is carrying Magic Coat, it is shut down entirely by Taunt, especially from a Pokemon that does not mind Foul Play. For example, Mandibuzz and Skuntank can easily stop Kecleon this way. Mandibuzz can then proceed to Toxic stall it to death, and Skuntank can play around Color Change with two different STAB moves. Most Poison- and Steel-types can defeat Kecleon as they are immune to Toxic, and Ground-types are immune to Thunder Wave. A good example of a counter would be Probopass, which is immune to Toxic, takes little damage from Foul Play, and can play around Color Change using Power Gem and Earth Power. Finally, almost every physical STAB move can at least come close to KOing Kecleon if it doesn't resist the hit because it is very frail physically.</p>

    skeleton sorry is a bit messy (open)


    [Overview]
    Overall not a good Pokemon
    Good special bulk, able to take a lot of hits on that side of the spectrum
    Wide movepool, so can be unpredictable
    Color Change can be used against Kecleon to let the opponent hit Super Effective when they normally wouldn't, so is not a good ability to have, except when Pokemon are choice locked into a non Ghost/Dragon move
    Lackluster attack stats, can't hit hard
    Only really works decently as a stally Pokemon

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Foul Play
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Color Change
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Able to set up SR against pretty much any specially attacking Pokemon
    Walls some threats such as non Taunt special Samurott
    Recover increases its longevity
    Foul Play is Kecleon's best attacking option due its sub par attacking stats and Color Change varying its STAB
    Color Change is easily taken advantage of (eg Charizard can use HP Grass then Fire Blast/Air Slash to kill)
    Good at spreading paralysis around the opponents team
    Thunder Wave and Toxic are both useful status moves. T Wave can slow down the opponent, opening up a potential sweep for one of your team members, and Toxic can wear down bulky Pokemon

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    Helpful teammates include Pokemon that can sweep easier when the opponent's team is slower (Sawk, Zangoose, Ursaring etc)
    Physically defensive Pokemon also partner well, especially Musharna, as it can take any Fighting move aimed at a Kecleon that hasn't had its color changed yet
    Dark type Pursuit trappers such as Skuntank are useful as teammates to deter the opponent from bringing in things like Heal Bell Synchronise Musharna to beat Kecleon
    Magic Coat can be used to deflect any hazards or status moves back at the opponent
    Return is a more reliable option which retains a STAB boost, but only when Kecleon hasn't been hit by an attacking move yet

    [Other Options]
    Kecleon can support the team with weather moves, and various other moves, such as Trick Room
    Trick in conjunction with a Choice item can disable one of your opponent's walls, which is always useful
    Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move which can pick off a weakened foe before they KO you
    Shadow Sneak is another, weaker, priority option
    Disable is a good surprise tactic to disable an opponent's move, which often comes in very handy on Kecleon, due to its unsavoury ability
    Knock Off is a fun option for crippling an opponent's Pokemon by taking away their item
    Like most Normal types, Kecleon has a wide range of rather bizzare special attacks
    Offensive Kecleon is a (rather outclassed) option, with access to various boosting moves like Nasty Plot and Hone Claws, and lots of powerful attacks to abuse
    Counter can be used as a surprise tactic to catch the KO on many physical attackers. Focus Sash can be used for effect in conjunction with Counter.

    [Checks and Counters]
    Almost any Pokemon that isn't choice locked (and has more than one move) can easily play around Color Change by using one move then attacking with a move that's super effective against the previously used move
    Before being hit by any other move, any powerful Fighting type (Sawk, Primeape, Gurdurr etc.) can come in and OHKO with a STAB move
    Taunt completely shuts Kecleon down (unless it has Magic Coat), so Pokemon like Misdreavus and Mandibuzz do well
    Mandibuzz and Skuntank are great counters, as they can Taunt, take next to no damage from Foul Play, and have 2 different STABs to play around Color Change with ease
    Ground types are immune to Thunder Wave, and Poison / Steel types are immune to Toxic
    Pretty much any powerful STAB physical moves will do a lot of damage to Kecleon, even KOing if its strong enough
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  2. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    On the mention about Foul Play in general, I would clarify that the biggest niche that it has over STAB Return is for its ability to beat Golurk, which is one of the most common users of Stealth Rock that often obligates to switch into Normal-type threats.

    I would also mention Aqua Tail on OO, which also hits Golurk super effectively and hits opposing setters like Golem and Camerupt for the 2HKO, both of which would otherwise comfortably set up on Kecleon.

    A short nitpick on C&C's is that I wouldn't completely state that Gurdurr dislikes switching into Toxic, as with the possibility of Guts this could turn into a good thing for it, making it a stronger check.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  3. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [Overview]
    Kecleon has 60/120 special bulk, which is better than decent I would say. "Great" sounds like a good word here. 90 Atk isn't that bad, but the main reasons for using Foul Play are that it hits Golurk and that Return will generally not have STAB due to Color Change. Implement the whole Color Change making Return non-STAB as a reason for Kecleon resorting to Foul Play.

    [Set]
    Toxic > Thunder Wave. Both are useful, but Toxic is better because it lets Kecleon damage special attackers (the things it's trying to wall) better than Foul Play generally will. Make the move order change in Set Comments as well.

    [Additional Comments]
    You say Return can be used as a reliable STAB move, but then say it's weak due to Color Change changing its type all the time. This sounds contradictory, but just removing the "as a reliable STAB move" part should work.

    [Checks and Counters]
    Do what Dell said about Gurdurr for this.

    Implement and I'll look at it again later @scorpdestroyer
  4. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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  5. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    for the overview, foul play lets kecleon deal more consistent damage, not significant. It can still be pretty weak, but at least it doesn't change depending on what moves the opponent hits you with.

    3/3 otherwise
  6. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Thanks, it's now ready for GP
  7. melvni

    melvni
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    @scorpdestroyer GP check. Good job on writing this. Just remember it's Choice item, not choice item.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Kecleon is not a great Pokemon in the NU metagame. It While it has great special bulk (add comma) which allows it to take several special attacks, as well as a wide movepool which that makes it unpredictable. On the other hand, its ability in Color Change makes it extremely easy to play around (add comma) as letting opponents would be able to hit Kecleon it for super effective damage when they normally wouldn't couldn't. The fact that its STAB is constantly changing also means that it has to rely on Foul Play to deal consistent damage. Therefore, Kecleon really only works as a bulky Pokemon, and not a good one at that.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Foul Play
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Color Change (only one ability so this is uneccesary)
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kecleon can make use of its above average special bulk to set up Stealth Rock in front of special attackers. Color Change also allows it to wall several Pokemon such as Special special Samurott lacking Taunt and Choice Scarf Jynx. Recover allows Kecleon to keep itself healthy against the onslaught of special attackers. Foul Play is used as Kecleon's attacking option, since as its Attack stat is subpar and it often would not receive rarely receieves a STAB boost on any move due to Color Change. It Foul Play also deals heavy damage to Golurk. Kecleon can also become be a decent status spreader, with Toxic crippling walls and Thunder Wave crippling fast opposing attackers; both can potentially pave the way for a teammate's sweep. It should be noted that it is very easy for opponents to take advantage of Color Change by exposing it to expose Kecleon to super effective attacks. For instance, Charizard can use a combination of Hidden Power Grass and Fire Blast to easily KO Kecleon. As such, Kecleon should always be used with caution.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magic Coat is a decent move on Kecleon, allowing it to bounce back status moves, entry hazards, and Taunt back at the opponent. Return can be used over Foul Play, but it is usually weak due to Kecleon's ever-changing typing. Because Kecleon can slow down faster foes with paralysis support, teammates that appreciate the opponent's team getting slowed down are decent. Sawk, Ursaring, and Samurott are decent good examples (using decent twice here seemed redundant, and it seems like you were listing good, not OK, examples of Pokemon that appreciate paralysis support). Physically defensive Pokemon are also great partners as they cover up on Kecleon's weaker defensive side stat. Musharna is a great example since as it can provide cleric support, as well as take taking the Fighting-type hits that threaten Kecleon before Color Change activates. Dark-type Pursuit trappers are also nice teammates to have, (remove comma) because they deter opponents from bringing in Pokemon such as Heal Bell Synchronize Musharna that can beat it Kecleon. Skuntank and Sneasel are good examples.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Kecleon can support the team with various field effects, such as weather moves and Trick Room. It can also carry a choice Choice item along with Trick to cripple opposing walls, but due to Kecleon's lack of power and low Speed, it this isn't recommended. Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move to pick off weakened foes and somewhat mitigates Kecleon's low Speed. Shadow Sneak can also be used, but it is much weaker. Disable is a decent surprise move and often comes in handy by disabling Ghost-type and Dragon-type moves and preventing the opponent from taking advantage of Color Change. However, Kecleon's low Speed means prediction is required. Aqua Tail can be used to defeat opposing Stealth Rock users such as Camerupt and Golem. Knock Off is an option to cripple certain opposing Pokemon by taking away their item items. Kecleon can be used as an offensive Pokemon and has access to boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Hone Claws. However, Kecleon is weak and outclassed by many other offensive Pokemon. Counter can be used to surprise physical attackers in tandem with a Focus Sash. Kecleon also has a wide range of special attacks at its disposal, but its horrible Special Attack stat means it can't make use of this.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Almost any Pokemon that has more than one move and isn't wielding a choice Choice item can easily take advantage of Color Change by first attacking with a coverage move to change Kecleon's type, (remove comma) followed by and following up with a move that is super effective. Before Kecleon changes its typing, Fighting-type attackers, such as Sawk and Gurdurr, can obliterate it easily, but although Sawk does not enjoy switching into Thunder Wave. Unless Kecleon is carrying Magic Coat, it is shut down entirely by Taunt, especially from a Pokemon that does not mind Foul Play. For example, Mandibuzz and Skuntank can shut Kecleon down with Taunt while taking little damage from Foul Play easily stop Kecleon this way (feel free to use your own wording here, but this seemed really redundant). Mandibuzz can then proceed to Toxic stall it to death, while and Skuntank can play around Color Change with two different STAB moves. Most Poison- and Steel-types can defeat Kecleon as they are immune to Toxic, while and Ground-types are immune to Thunder Wave. A good example of a counter would be Probopass, which is immune to Toxic, takes little damage from Foul Play, and can play around Color Change using Power Gem and Earth Power. Finally, almost every physical STAB move can at least come close to killing KOing Kecleon if it doesn't resist the hit, (remove comma) because Kecleon it is very frail on the physical side physically.</p>


    GP: 1/2
  8. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Thanks melvni, changes implemented
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    add/edit
    remove

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Kecleon is not a great Pokemon in the NU metagame. While it has great special bulk, which allows it to take several special attacks, as well as a wide movepool that makes it unpredictable, its ability in Color Change makes it extremely easy to play around, letting opponents hit it for super effective damage when they normally couldn't. The fact that its STAB is constantly changing also means that it has to rely on Foul Play to deal consistent damage. Therefore, Kecleon really only works as a bulky Pokemon, and not a good one at that.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Foul Play
    move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kecleon can make use of its above average special bulk to set up Stealth Rock in front of special attackers. Color Change also allows it to wall several Pokemon such as special Samurott lacking Taunt and Choice Scarf Jynx. Recover allows Kecleon to keep itself healthy against the onslaught of special attackers. Foul Play is used as Kecleon's attacking option, as its Attack stat is subpar and it rarely receives a STAB boost on any move due to Color Change. Foul Play also deals heavy damage to Golurk. Kecleon can also be a decent status spreader, with Toxic crippling walls and Thunder Wave crippling fast opposing attackers; both can potentially pave the way for a teammate's sweep. It should be noted that it is very easy for opponents to take advantage of Color Change to expose Kecleon to super effective attacks. For instance, Charizard can use a combination of Hidden Power Grass and Fire Blast to easily KO Kecleon. As such, Kecleon should always be used with caution.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magic Coat is a decent move on Kecleon, allowing it to bounce status moves, entry hazards, and Taunt back at the opponent. Return can be used over Foul Play, but it is usually weak due to Kecleon's ever-changing typing. Because Kecleon can slow down faster foes with paralysis, teammates that appreciate the opponent's team getting slowed down are decent. Sawk, Ursaring, and Samurott are good examples. Physically defensive Pokemon are also great partners as they cover up Kecleon's weaker defensive stat. Musharna is a great example as it can provide cleric support, as well as taking the Fighting-type hits that threaten Kecleon before Color Change activates. Dark-type Pursuit trappers are also nice teammates to have because they deter opponents from bringing in Pokemon such as Heal Bell Synchronize Musharna that can beat Kecleon. Skuntank and Sneasel are good examples.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Kecleon can support the team with various field effects, such as weather and Trick Room. It can also carry a Choice item along with Trick to cripple opposing walls, but due to Kecleon's lack of power and low Speed, this isn't recommended. Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move to pick off weakened foes and somewhat mitigates Kecleon's low Speed. Shadow Sneak can also be used, but it is much weaker. Disable is a decent surprise move and often comes in handy by Disabling Ghost- and Dragon-type moves and preventing the opponent from taking advantage of Color Change. However, Kecleon's low Speed means prediction is required. Aqua Tail can be used to defeat opposing Stealth Rock users such as Camerupt and Golem. Knock Off is an option to cripple certain opposing Pokemon by taking away their items. Kecleon can be used as an offensive Pokemon and has access to boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Hone Claws. However, Kecleon is weak and outclassed by many other offensive Pokemon. Counter can be used to surprise physical attackers in tandem with a Focus Sash. Kecleon also has a wide range of special attacks at its disposal, but its horrible Special Attack stat means it can't make use of this.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Almost any Pokemon that has more than one move and isn't wielding a Choice item can easily take advantage of Color Change by first attacking with a coverage move to change Kecleon's type and following up with a move that is super effective. Before Kecleon changes its typing, Fighting-type attackers, such as Sawk and Gurdurr, can obliterate it easily, although Sawk does not enjoy switching into Thunder Wave. Unless Kecleon is carrying Magic Coat, it is shut down entirely by Taunt, especially from a Pokemon that does not mind Foul Play. For example, Mandibuzz and Skuntank can easily stop Kecleon this way. Mandibuzz can then proceed to Toxic stall it to death, and Skuntank can play around Color Change with two different STAB moves. Most Poison- and Steel-types can defeat Kecleon as they are immune to Toxic, and Ground-types are immune to Thunder Wave. A good example of a counter would be Probopass, which is immune to Toxic, takes little damage from Foul Play, and can play around Color Change using Power Gem and Earth Power. Finally, almost every physical STAB move can at least come close to KOing Kecleon if it doesn't resist the hit because it is very frail physically.</p>


    GP Approved 2/2
  10. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    That was my favourite GP check to implement ever.

    Ready for upload!
  11. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    uploading!

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