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Kecleon

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by nukes327, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. nukes327

    nukes327

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    (This is my first thread, so please bear with me)

    [​IMG]

    Kecleon
    Normal
    Ability:
    Color Change

    Stats:

    Hp: 60
    Atk: 90
    Def: 70
    Sp.Atk: 60
    Sp.Def: 120
    Spe: 40

    Level Up Moves:
    Show Hide
    Lv1: Thief, Lv1: Tail Whip, Lv1: Astonish, Lv1: Lick, Lv1: Scratch, Lv4: Bind, Lv7: Faint Attack, Lv10: Fury Swipes, Lv14: Feint, Lv18: Psybeam, Lv22: Shadow Sneak, Lv27: Slash, Lv32: Screech, Lv37: Substitute, Lv43: Sucker Punch, Lv49: Shadow Claw, Lv55: Ancient Power, Lv58: Synchro Noise


    Egg Moves:
    Show Hide
    Disable
    Dizzy Punch
    Fake Out
    Foul Play
    Magic Coat
    Nasty Plot
    Recover
    Skill Swap
    Snatch
    Trick​


    Other Important Moves:
    Focus Punch (Gen 4 TM)

    Okay, so I've noticed that no one else has posted anything about this yet, but Kecleon became much more useful in Gen 5. Magic Coat got a boost and can now reflect hazards like spikes, and this allows Kecleon to become the most potent anti-lead in Gen 5 provided you're willing to do a little predicting.​


    Potential Sets:

    Anti Lead
    Kecleon @ Brick Mail
    144 Hp / 148 Atk / 216 Def -- Brave
    ~Magic Coat
    ~Snatch
    ~Sucker Punch
    ~Focus Punch

    Essentially, with this set your goal is to be the biggest annoyance possible. Send him out as a lead and the fun begins:

    - Can reflect all entry hazards, status effects, and taunt with Magic Coat. It can frequently give you free stealth rocks if used correctly.

    - Can steal opponents boosting moves with Snatch, improving Kecleons stats and wasting your opponents turn.

    This set requires immense amounts of predictions, (it really helps to have some knowledge about common movesets), but it also has immense pay off if used correctly. Use Magic Coat and Snatch when prudent, and if you expect a switch just fire off a Focus Punch.
  2. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012 Banned deucer.

    Joined:
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    What does his held item do??
  3. Pentao

    Pentao

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
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    IIRC, absolutely nothing, that's just there in case of trick users. Basically if they use trick, they get nothing beneficial in return.
  4. -Terywj-

    -Terywj-

    Joined:
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    564
    Brick Mail is just silly. It's to stop Trick / Switcheroo?
  5. nukes327

    nukes327

    Joined:
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    Yeah guys, the mail is there to stop trick, (It doesn't just give the trick user nothing, it actually CAN NOT be tricked off of him, leaving you a trick user choiced into trick). I ran into some trick users once, and they completely cripple this set. I also just couldn't find another practical item to use.
  6. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
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    752
    LOL

    Since Magic Coat, Snatch and Sucker Punch have increased priority, and Focus Punch has negative one, why not just hold Iron Ball?
  7. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
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    1,959
    Iron Ball doesn't block Trick from working. You'd still receive a Choice item. The purpose is not to screw up the Trick user, but to prevent their move from even working, which Mail does.

    And Focus Punch's priority is -3, not -1.
  8. nukes327

    nukes327

    Joined:
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    What would that do? Like I said, it's not that mail isn't useless, it cannot be tricked or switcherooed. It will stay attached to kecleon after the trick user tries to cripple him. Then the trick user is crippled, not kecleon.

    EDIT:
    Posted at the same time as the guy above me...
  9. Mr.L

    Mr.L

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
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    1,267
    i just faced this set (fell to my Ranky Antilead, but still).

    It has potential, i must say. Only thing I'd change is maybe Skill Swap over Snatch to mess up Ability-reliant pokes (Ranky counter, anyone?). though not snatching is a loss, it all depends on what your team needs.
  10. XienZo

    XienZo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
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    What if they just... attack? Non-stabbed Sucker Punch off of 90 Attack won't hurt much.
  11. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012 Banned deucer.

    Joined:
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    Why is Return not on any of the sets? You should at least give him a decent STAB move.
  12. Mr.L

    Mr.L

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    Keckleon's STAB is near always changing. Besides, STAB Return has about the same power as an unSTABed Focus Punch.
  13. FSLAR

    FSLAR

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
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    Trick works differently now. If you're choiced and trick your choice item onto a choice wielding Poke, you are not locked into trick and can instead switch to a different move.
  14. nukes327

    nukes327

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
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    Yes, but if their item never switched then I'm pretty sure they are still locked into trick.

    Yes, this is one of the times where he doesn't do as well. If you see in the team preview what appears to be an attacking lead (read: Kojondo), then put something else up front.


    Probably me... I haven't seen anyone else running this...

    Yeah, skill swap is a possibility, but ability reliant sweepers are less common (at least the ones that matter, not tyranitar for example). If you really want to, go for it, but it's usually better if you can take their boosting move than their ability.
  15. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    649
    I have found that Skill Swap just doesn't work. Simply switching out resets a pokemon's ability, and whatever ability you have usually doesn't matter in the end anyway.
  16. Forsety

    Forsety

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
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    1,634
    I personally had more success with this Kecleon set.

    Kecleon@Chople Berry
    -Drain Punch
    -Claw Sharpen
    -Trick Room
    -Shadow Claw/Sucker Punch

    Claw Sharpen when you can, TR when hit by a fighting move Chople Berry helping with easing the damage and gain STAB on a recovery attack at the same time. Sucker Punch is pretty decent but Shadow Claw lets you hit Psychics normally.
  17. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Why shouldn't Kecleon use Trick himself?
  18. Showsni

    Showsni

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  19. Lou Cypher

    Lou Cypher

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    ...Oh god I remember that nightmare, I feared it might come up.
    Thank you for pulling it back up >.<
  20. nukes327

    nukes327

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    It works even better 5th gen. Free hazards anyone? I actually remember one of my battles with it. It went something like this:

    I also used sucker punch to OHKO both Deoxys-S and Latios... I'm really glad no-one else is using it 5th gen yet.

    Kecleon doesn't have the speed even with Choice scarf to get off a trick before his opponent can get in a good hit. He is really reliant on the priority in this set.
  21. Chameleon

    Chameleon

    Joined:
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    Well well well, it's Kecleon. Don't forget it learns Stealth Rock and all the elemental punches via fourth gen!

    On the lead set, you might want to run Stealth Rock over Snatch as a back up, if only because Snatch is too situational (you can also Focus Punch many of those who boost).

    I haven't been brave enough to use Kecleon in OU yet, but the Trick option Chieliee mentioned sounds useful as a lead. Kecleon is almost made for trick because once you lock your opponent into a move, it's likely to be not very effective the next turn (or just lock them into SR or something). Even better, since they're locked, Sucker Punch becomes more reliable, Focus Punch can be used if they have to switch, or you can get a free SR or T-wave out. Please excuse the theorymon.

    Kecleon is truly unique, between its amazing movepool, physical attack but special defense, and ability. You just can't replace it!
  22. Green Thunder

    Green Thunder

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    .....? No one has mentioned recover....I...I'm shocked!

    @leftovers
    252hp and some form of defensive evs(Idk if which u should invest more in)
    Careful/impish
    -Return/sucker punch
    -Recover
    -toxic/thunder wave/
    -stealth rocks/thunder wave/another attacking move

    Hell,even the sub punch sets could use recover!
  23. nukes327

    nukes327

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    I'm using this guy non-stop in OU. While he does get trashed some times, so will other leads. I like running snatch to deal with boosters, because many people get really annoyed when you waste their turns like that. Stealth rock is possible, but too many times the opponent uses it and you get free rocks because you use magic coat.
  24. yytan12

    yytan12

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    I have used this moveset, and it is CRAZY usefull. The only problem is, you don't really have a way to damage your foe....well you do, but they probably won't be OHKOs, and they can still set up rocks on you.

    If keckleon had earthquake, things would be different (DIE FLAMING MONKEYS AND OVERCOOKED CHICKENS!).
  25. breh

    breh mfw lucky 'n' bad
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

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    Magic Coat reflects hazards and Kecleon has the near same Aqua Tail.

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