1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Keep calm and...win?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by DeepSpeed, May 7, 2012.

  1. DeepSpeed

    DeepSpeed

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Hello everyone. On April 15th I went to the Pleasanton regionals with a team that was risky, unbalanced, and not completely thought-out. I went home with a fairly modest 5-3 win record, a nice hat, and spirits crushed so thoroughly you could have sprinkled it over fettuccine alfredo. The team had some pretty well on PO (Although in retrospect, not quite), and I just didn't know what happened. I admit, I am not a very good Pokemon player. Strategy, typing, and moves are all quite foreign to me. When I was little I was used to getting badass pokemon and plowing through my opponents. When I first broke into the online scene, I got my ass handed to me several times. In fact, I was an annoying little bitch. But this last team was a masterpiece in my eyes. I had counters to rain, sun, goodstuffs, TR, everything. What went wrong was that it was a bad team.

    So the days following the VGC, an extremely sad Luis plopped down on the computer and started fiddling with PO and the teambuilder. I decided to use a team of my favorite pokemon, awesome looking beasts that I had always liked. Nidoking has always held a spot in my heart as the most awesome pokemon in the entire universe. A rogue, relentless powerhouse that was reserved solely to the uses of Giovanni. I wanted to center my team around him, so I first paired him up with Tornadus. Unfortunately, it was an awful combination and I went down to 800 in PO. I decided it was awful so I trashed the idea. While reading Feathers' VGC warstory I saw he used Dewgong, which was a pokemon that I had always liked. My brother used to own this card: [​IMG]

    and I thought he looked awesome. So I took his Abomasnow and Dewgong. While messing around with them I saw they worked pretty well, so I tried a hail team. It didn't work well at all.

    By this point I was pretty discouraged. Nothing worked for me. So I decided to say fuck it I'm gonna use Nidoking and Dewgong. I realized that Zapdos was an often used TW setter, so I tried them out. I didn't have anything else though, so I threw in Scizor and Hitmontop.

    This team brought me up to 1128, and I'm rank 169 on the Skarmbliss server. I know that's not quite impressive, but that's the highest I've ever been. And I'm rising every day. So now I need help refining the team, making cuts and additions, and helping form it into an amazing team that could contend at Nats.

    Without further ado, here's the team.

    [​IMG]

    VOOODOOO (Nidoking) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower

    Should I change either of these for Ice Beam? I'm leaning toward replacing Flamethrower.
    - Protect

    My inspiration, my partner, my badass powerhouse. Named after Voodoo Pimp because he's a boss. Absolutely nothing can stop Sheer Force LO, and the coverage is insane. Earth Power destroys Metagross, Thunderbolt is great against Politoed, Rotom, and the like, and Flamethrower is great against Scizor. With TW support I can outrun everything, and even not in TW I'm still pretty fast. But the lack of bulk is a bit troublesome. When paired with Zapdos there's great synergy, as I can throw off Discharges left and right. My coverage moves are kind of redundant, so I'm thinking about replacing Flamethrower with Ice Beam to kill off dragons, which are a problem for my team. Heat Wave can take care of Scizor.

    [​IMG]

    #teamswagg (Zapdos) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Tailwind
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    He sets up Tailwind and spits out Discharges until he dies. Heat Wave is standard, and HP Grass destroys Gastrodon. Has great synergy with Nidoking, as he can Protect while I set up TW, then we go to town on everything.

    Everything except Cresselia. Seriously, fuck her. I have nothing that can successfully counter her, except Scizor. I was contemplating making Nidoking physical and putting Megahorn on it so she'll be less of a problem, but I'm not sure. She hasn't really cost me anything yet, so if nothing comes up I'll keep everything as it is. However, if she's packing Psyshock or Psychic, my Nidoking is kinda screwed. Another big threat for us is Latios, which can also KO with Psychic or Psyshock. Ice Beam can take care of him though. Hitmontop is kindof a threat, but he's quite frail so we can easily dispatch him with Discharge/whatever. With these two guys leading I can destroy literally everything.

    [​IMG]

    #YOLO (Scizor) (M) @ Occa Berry Doesn't really let me survive anything, except the occasional Heat Wave. Let's me survive HP Fire from Latios though. Should I switch to Choice Band/Flying Gem Acrobatics?
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bug Bite
    - Bullet Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Protect

    So I sort of just threw him on the team, but he's become a staple. A great revenge killer, his Bug Bite is amazing against anything that doesn't resist it. Bullet Punch is awesome as well. Night Slash was filler, as I was going for a more standard Scizor set rather than my last Flying Gem Acrobatics one. But I might just bring it back, seeing as I don't have anything for fighting types. Occa berry is kinda useless.

    [​IMG]

    Lucien (Hitmontop) (M) @ Fight Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Wide Guard
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fake Out

    Named after Lucien, because he's awesome. Another staple to my team, Fake Out and Sucker Punch are both invaluable. Close Combat destroys everything, and Wide Guard has saved me before. Pretty standard, I'm not really trying to change anything.



    This is where I run into trouble. I usually go with the above four now, since these two are sort of misfits. Abomasnow is a good ice type, and I use him whenever I see dragons. But he's so slow and frail. Dewgong is great for surprising people, as is Fake Out. But he's quite weak offensively and doesn't do much to support. So I'm looking to replace both of them, preferably with a weather starter.

    [​IMG]

    Abomasnow (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect

    Standard Abomasnow. Blizzard is insane, and 100% accuracy is awesome. Giga Drain is great as well, and Ice Shard is perhaps the best priority move in the VGC. But he's too slow to utilize Tailwind, and too frail to really survive. Two Bullet Punches and he's gone.

    [​IMG]

    Dewgong (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 140 HP / 100 SAtk / 240 SDef / 28 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Fake Out
    - Protect
    - Blizzard
    - Surf

    Dewgong has great staying power. Fake out is great, and Blizzard/Surf are amazing spread moves. But he's really weak and slow as an attacker. So I need to replace him.


    So there's my team. As I said, Cresselia is hugely annoying, and dragons are troublesome. I'm really pleased with how good it's doing though, it's doing way better than any other team I've ever used. But it's not quite at that level of performance that I want. Any sort of help will be greatly appreciated.
  2. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,965
    Nidoking: well, I'm honored :pimp: I agree that you can get rid of Flamethrower, since you also have Zapdos and Earth Power does like 75% to Scizor anyway. If you find you get more use out of the Fire coverage, you might also consider replacing it with Fire Blast.

    Zapdos is standard for the most part, but I'm not sure I like Discharge on this team. Sure, it's great synergy with Nidoking, but it could really screw you over if he goes down.

    I've never been a fan of Occa Berry on Scizor either, and Acrobatics hits harder on the first use anyway. Another interesting option I don't see much of is Natural Gift. While you can only use it once per battle, it can pull off a surprise KO on Pokémon with 4x weaknesses, like burning that Occa Berry to get a surprise KO on an opponent's Scizor.

    Hitmontop's standard like you said, but what's up with the Naughty nature?

    Abomasnow actually works better in Tailwind than you think. For instance, with just 84 EVs it outspeeds the genies, which includes pretty much everything it cares about.

    An easy replacement for Dewgong would be Blastoise. It has pretty much strictly better base stats, much better defensive typing (you really don't want three Rock weaknesses in a metagame full of Rock Slide), and access to the same moves, so all you really lose is STAB on Blizzard. I'd also suggest replacing Surf with Hydro Pump or Scald, since most of your team doesn't enjoy being hit by it.
  3. DeepSpeed

    DeepSpeed

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Whoops, I should have changed the nature on Hitmontop. And as for Discharge on Zapdos, I've seen that Nidiking usually activates focus sashes, and then Zapdos can score the KO while doing damage to whatever is left. The 30% Paralysis rate is awesome as well. But you're right, and it doesn't do as much damage as I want. If it gives me trouble I'll change it. As for Scizor, I changed it to Flying Gem Acrobatics. Natural Gift sounds tempting, but I think flying coverage is more important.

    I'll definitely take your suggestion with Abomasnow. I really like him, but he has several problems. I'll keep testing him out with the EVs you said. Blastoise sounds awesome, I'll try him out and see how things go. Thanks man.
  4. Ravix

    Ravix

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    I personally like bug gem + Swords Dance Scizor. Run enough speed Ev's to outspeed metagross and you can ohko after SD with bug bite. Grab's big damage and a lot of ohko's on bulky variants. Cress goes down after a SD as well, with prior damage you can just kill it directly though. Would solve your latios and cress problems.

    I think Ludicolo would be a great swap for dewgong, it would accomplish just about everything dewgong does. This would also allow you to switch out hp grass on zapdos for detect. As you really shouldn't be staying in to try and kill the stuff HP grass lets you fight. Ludicolo would do that just fine, as would aboma.
  5. DeepSpeed

    DeepSpeed

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    I'll definitely try out SD Scizor, I really like the sound of that. As for Ludi, I'm gonna try him too. I don't think Blastoise fits well on my team, and Ludicolo would be a better Rain counter.
  6. MavsObbession

    MavsObbession

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    299
    Quick tip, Gastrodon always gives me problems when I'm using Rain. Gastro can wall Rain teams effectively as well; he can easily switch into Double Surfs to gain a +2 SpA boost.
  7. DeepSpeed

    DeepSpeed

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Crap, you're right. Hm, I'll test everything out and see what works best.
  8. Drifblim

    Drifblim

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    550
    Looks like an OK team, a slight swist on standard goodstuff. Voodoo seems to have beat me to all of the really big issues.

    Acrobatics is pretty good on Scizor. Aside from being decent coverage, the only thing it is really important for is Hitmontop, who has a 50%ish chance of surviving if you are at -1 because of his Intimidate.

    This team doesn't have quite enough resists for Discharge to really be a better idea then Tbolt, thus I would heavily reccomend that switch just for greater utility.

    This team can benefit enough from Tailwind a secondary user would be good. Scizor would just need 44 Speed EVs to outrun genies, they could get taken out of another stat. Suicune can benefit from Hail with his own Blizzard, and is even bulkier then Blastoise. The main thing he loses from Blasty is either Water Spout or Fake Out, which you could only have 1 of anyway. Water Spout in Tailwind would really hurt, especially if off of a Water Gem. Fake out could make setting Tailwind up easier.

    Because he is Modest, using HP something over Ice Shard could be better. You already have a great priority move in Scizor's Bullet Punch, Ice Shard even if something is weak to it.
  9. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    Hitmontop is naughty 'cuz I always got some anarchy up my sleeve.

    Really, I'd replace Flamethrower on Nidoking for Ice Beam. Zapdos has Heat Wave, and while it doesn't kill everything, it will hit hard enough. Ice Beam gains crucial coverage on a lot of threats.

    Keep Special Nidoking. That's the only reason it's so good.

    172 SpD EVs and an Occa Berry lets it live a Heat Wave from Sash Modest Chande. A lot are Fire Gem now a days, but it's still useful. The loss of attack does hurt, however.

    Since Night Slash has overlapping coverage with Bug Bite, use Feint. It works wonders with Nidoking, as they have to think twice before Protecting, and you can protect away. It puts a lot of stress on the opponent, while you have none. Breaks Sashes too!

    Why use 252 HP EVs when Abomasnow is sashed? Throw those in Speed and watch its usefulness skyrocket. Chumping out weather is good.

    Second Gastro suggestion. Gastrodon gives Weather teams in general trouble. But be wary, a Giga Drain from +1 Ludicolo has a chance to KO even with Rindo. Make sure you have at least 52 SpD EVs to live it.
  10. MavsObbession

    MavsObbession

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    299
    Most people give Abomasnow a Sash for the purpose of surviving Heat Wave, or any other Fire-type move for that matter. Other than that, Abomasnow can resist many attacks with 252 HP EV's invested, although you can sacrifice some HP EV's for 84 Speed EV's, like voodoo pimp suggested. That way, you'll outspeed the genies in Tailwind.
  11. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    Nats is going to be a lot more bulky Pokemon than at Regionals, so even giving Abomasnow that little amount of speed OUTSIDE of tailwind can be the difference between outspeeding a bulky pokemon and being outspeed. Besides, with 252 Spe EVs, Abomasnow gets the drop on everything not named Ninjask, which includes Crobat, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Weavile, Swellow, etc. The extra speed is very useful.
  12. Ravix

    Ravix

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Lucien is right, Nat's will be all about bulk. Watch your spreads and calculate what you need to survive certain things. Knowing that you can take something, because you prepared for it, wins games.

    T-bolt on zapdos should be a given, didn't notice that before. Throw an electric gem on there for some more oomph if you would like.

    Suicune would be the only contender, imo, to be comparable to Ludicolo. Gastro doesn't offer your team anything that those two can't do better.

    Throw Hp fire on Aboma, switch those HP ev's to spd, and grab ice beam on Nido. Swaps coverages and gives you better spread control, was a nice suggestion.
  13. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    Electric Gem Zapdos is weak sauce, Sitrus is way better. The extra power is irreverent if you're in priority range next turn.

    I'm going to be indecisive here and also second Suicune. Suicune can also set up Tailwind when Zapdos goes down or when Zapdos isn't a good choice. (Sand Team)

    I disagree on HP Fire. Priority in Ice Shard, while weak, will still be able to finish off some frail threats when in like 10% range or so. Tailwind won't always be up so Priority is always great.
  14. DeepSpeed

    DeepSpeed

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Alright, all week I've been focused on studying for bio, so now I'm gonna start testing Suicune and Ludicolo out.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)