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Keeping the balance

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Limi, May 4, 2012.

  1. Limi

    Limi
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    295
    Introduction

    I'm a lazy slacker when it comes to making teams. Teambuilding just isn't really my forte. It only figures that when I actually make a good one, I try to use it as long as possible. This team is one of those, and, needless to say, I have been using it for a while, since January or February, in fact (don't quite recall). But only recently have I had a lot of success with it, peaking at 2nd place with 1420 points. It's still not perfect, so I hope you guys are pitching me some ideas for it!
    This team is a balanced team, as the title suggests. Balance is probably my favourite playstyle, as I like a solid defense while not having to resort to Toxic or stuff as my best way to damage stuff. In short, I want walls, and I want powerhouses. Sadly, I don't see many other balanced teams on the ladder, but rather lots and lots of offense (bulky or otherwise). With Jynx being very newly banned, maybe balance will become more common again, and I certainly hope so!
    As I mentioned, I made this team a long while ago, but it has always been a balanced team, originally centered around a rather obscure Pokemon (specially defensive Dustox, which wasn't half-bad!). I abandoned the team for quite a while, but found that most Pokemon on this team had been serving me so well that I later returned to it. Dustox went, balance stayed (how often have I mentioned "balance" so far? wayyy too often methinks). And boy, do I love this team more than ever before. Before I continue rambling, have some history (which I don't remember quite well... it's been months!).

    shnen and Keiran forced me (open)
    Being the hipster I am, I decided to try something extravagant which I actually once had seen bossing in an OU replay. You guessed it, this something was defensive Dustox. It had quite a cute set of Roost, Toxic, Whirlwind, and U-turn. I liked it!
    Have a pic.
    [pimg]269[/pimg]
    Of course, it needed a partner, and I decided that Quagsire would do a fairly good job, resisting fire and rock with its grass weakness covered.
    [pimg]269[/pimg] [pimg]195[/pimg]
    I'm not quite sure what I added afterwards, but I think it was specially defensive SR Camerupt, along with Tangela to add another special and physical tank each to the team.
    [pimg]323[/pimg] [pimg]269[/pimg] [pimg]195[/pimg] [pimg]114[/pimg]
    I decided I needed some offensive presence in the team and used a very fun and devastating Pokemon, SD Absol. To round out the team, I wanted a revenge killer for Gorebyss that wasn't Rotom-s and tried Raichu at first, but later realised that Electabuzz would be better.
    [pimg]323[/pimg] [pimg]269[/pimg] [pimg]195[/pimg] [pimg]114[/pimg] [pimg]359[/pimg] [pimg]125[/pimg]
    That was the first draft of this team, but I later realised that I didn't really like Quag all that much and replaced him with Golem (whom I later turned out to fall in love with). I think this was also around the time when I added Flareon instead of Camerupt.
    [pimg]76[/pimg] [pimg]269[/pimg] [pimg]136[/pimg] [pimg]114[/pimg] [pimg]359[/pimg] [pimg]125[/pimg]
    From there, the first real version of the team was finished, and it did decently.
    After a while, I abandoned it. When I returned, I brushed it up a bit, and wanted to try specially defensive Lapras (as yet another Gorebyss check) instead of Dustox. I also made other changes (using Swellow in that slot, Scarf Jynx instead of Ebuzz etc.), but they didn't really make me happy. I left the team alone again for a bit, and when I came back to it, I felt the need for a better psychic killer, so I swapped Absol out for Skuntank. I don't quite remember the 6th slot here, but it was filled at one point with Band Braviary. Later, I came to realise that Drifblim offered a lot of the resistances I wanted, and used it (the AcroBlimp variant, specifically), but I wasn't quite satisfied. While being deterred by Haunter a bit for its weak bulk and being yet another special attacker, I still settled on it in the end. And I didn't regret it! So here is the final version:
    [pimg]76[/pimg] [pimg]93[/pimg] [pimg]136[/pimg] [pimg]114[/pimg] [pimg]440[/pimg] [pimg]125[/pimg]
    Sorry for the oftentimes rather short descriptions, I really don't recall everything and even so, I don't have much to say about the process. Please bear with me!


    Overview

    [pimg]76[/pimg] [pimg]440[/pimg] [pimg]125[/pimg] [pimg]93[/pimg] [pimg]114[/pimg] [pimg]136[/pimg]

    In-depth



    [​IMG]
    Golem (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    It almost annoys me a bit that I use Golem on pretty much every team I make. But Golem is probably the most popular Stealth Rock lead for a reason. He's just sooo good. The set is about as standard as it can get, but that doesn't make it worse. His job is to set up Stealth Rock, so that move is a given. Rock Blast and Earthquake are STAB and achieve great neutral coverage, with Rock Blast also having the bonus of destroying sub users. Sucker Punch is a cool priority move that helps pick off weakened opposing Pokemon. Great utility overall. 44 EVs go into Speed to outspeed 0 Speed Regirock and Vileplume (I'm sure they all run 4 Speed anyway), the rest into bulk and power.
    Aside from getting up rocks, Golem checks an awesome amount of Pokemon in NU as well, including, but not limited to Swellow, Braviary, Rotom-s, Skuntank, Rapidash, Bastiodon, and Probopass. When I see one of those on the opposing team, I try to play him conservatively (this often means not getting rocks up until they come out, unfortunately), but in other games, I can play him quite recklessly, which often nets a kill or two. Of course, he isn't designed to be a sweeper, so there are many things he simply can't outpower, among those Tangela, Misdreavus, Amoonguss, Vileplume, Quagsire etc.. You get the picture. Due to this, I have actually considered using Toxic (inspired by Raseri~) on him instead of Sucker Punch to snatch Tangela and Quagsire at least, although I'm not quite sure on that (it can't hit Amoonguss or Vileplume, which are usually more trouble for me). I'm still leaning more towards Sucker Punch. Since the purpose of RMTs is letting team raters rate your teams, I'd like some advice on that from you guys.




    [​IMG]
    Skuntank (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Sludge Bomb

    Skunny, as I call my only non-Kanto Pokemon, has replaced Absol on my team. And while that has removed some offensive power and sheer scariness from the team, he is a valuable asset for getting rid of opposing Psychic- and Ghost-types. Sucker Punch and Pursuit web a wonderful net of mindgames that those Pokemon hate so much, whereas Crunch is more for consistent power. Sludge Bomb snatches Tangela easily and hits other stuff like Absol (for less than half only, but it's enough most of the time). Max Attack for max damage, 224 Speed for neutral-natured base 80s, rest in HP (although I feel they could go in SpD instead).
    While Skuntank does a great job scaring out psychics and ghosts (and killing them on the way), he does and equally great job luring Rock-types in, which can then set up their hazards (mostly just Stealth Rock, thankfully, but Omanyte can be a real pain with Spikes). As such, he is better suited to come in later in the game, when those threats have hopefully been removed (wishful thinking, Skuntank and Flareon are enough of a reason for them to keep their rocks alive). But his job isn't to wall break or sweep, it is to get rid of certain threats (not limited to psychics and ghosts, he can revenge stuff like Samurott and Magmortar as well), and he does that well. Aftermath is a great last resort ability as well. Sadly, he tends to not stay around for very long with attacks (no matter how weak they might be (although he is a real crit magnet .-.)), LO recoil and hazards gnawing on him, and passing a Wish or Leech Seed unfortunately doesn't happen all that often. Still, I like him a lot (which might be because he is one of the two physical attackers on my team, but I'm sure there's more than that).



    [​IMG]
    Electabuzz (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Electabuzz is the revenge killer of the team. His original purpose was to revenge Gorebyss whilst being original (i.e. not being Rotom-s (hipster! hipster!)), and he does a fairly good job at it. At the same time, with a Modest nature, he both outspeeds and outpowers opposing Rotom-s, making him a really good switch-in into that thing as well.
    Volt Switch is a great move, of course, that can gain great momentum etc., while Thunderbolt is a strong STAB move that can get sweeps end-game (that rarely happens nowadays, but oh well, still a good move). Focus Blast hits (misses?) rocks and normals and whatnot, and I originally used HP Grass to hit Quagsire, which I hardly see these days, though. I felt that HP Ice was the better choice in the end, though, for stuff like Vileplume, Tangela, Amoonguss, Eggy etc..
    I consider Electabuzz to be the weakest link of my team now, because even with Modest, base 95 Special Attack with a Scarf isn't anything to write home about (Sitrus Linoone can set up on it =_=). In fact, in several games, I want to use him as my sleep fodder, but can't because of Vital Spirit (though that's because I'm too lazy to change back to Static, which probably would be better... but still, when you have one Pokemon as your go-to sleep fodder, that should say something about its worth for the team). I've considered several replacement scarfers already. Charizard, Haunter (see below), Cinccino, Zebstrika, Floatzel all have been buzzing around in my head so far. It is time for you, the strenuous rater of NU teams, to fix the little holes in my team again. Golly!




    [​IMG]
    Haunter (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Pain Split

    Haunter is the newest member of my team, but wow, he is a total boss. He is the closest Pokemon on my team that comes close to being a set-up sweeper (with sub...) and the most powerful as well. His powerful STAB attacks are, surprisingly enough, almost unresisted, with only Skuntank, Probopass, and Bastiodon walling it (hellooooo~~~~ golem). Due to his power and speed, he can be a real nightmare for the opponent (ohohoho he even learns that move) and can get great sweeps lategame.
    Pain Split and Substitute are great moves that complement each other very well, annoying defensive Pokemon while avoiding assaults aimed at it. What can I say, this is another great standard set that doesn't really need to be explained.
    What I like a lot about Haunter is that he can come in on many attacks despite his horrid bulk. Three immunities and a good share of resists don't make him too hard to switch in. On top of that, he has little problems with Amoonguss and Vileplume, two threats which pester my team a lot, which makes me and my other Pokemon a happy Dan. He just needs to avoid being slept and he's set. I'd go as far as to say that he's the MVP of the team.
    Despite him being so great, I've considered using a scarf set on him as a replacement scarfer for Electabuzz, as I said before. This would then free up a teamslot. I'm not really sure on this, though, because I'm really really loving subsplit, and scarf would just lack, in fact, obliterate the power and overall awesomeness of this set. Not doing this.




    [​IMG]
    Tangela (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    This is part one of my defensive core that really defines this team and makes me love it so much. Tangela has been called the "physical Blissey of NU". Not without reason, because she takes pretty much all kinds of physical attacks incredibly well.
    Once again, a standard set, with maximum physical bulk, Giga Drain for healing, Leech Seed for more healing, Sleep Powder for getting rid of stuff, and HP Ice to hit certain targets (Sawsbuck, Altaria, etc.. It hits Dragonair for ~20%!!). I really have no complaints with this set because it works so well. There's really not much else I could say about Tangela, other than that she doesn't deal with stuff like banded Sawk or SD Samurott as well as I'd like her to and lures in Magmortar, Jynx, and Charizard. But what can you do~ (use HP Rock I guess, although I'm loving HP Ice too much. And I have...).




    [​IMG]
    Flareon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    Part two of my core (which I have dubbed "Flarela"), taking care of the special side. I've been using Flareon as my special wall since Round 0, and she does her job really well. She fulfills a wonderful niche by checking most variants of Magmortar (i.e. lacking Earthquake) and Charizard (i.e. lacking Earthquake or specs Air Slash in sun), Jynx and Eggy without Psyshock (I have to avoid sleep as well, though), and a variety of other things like Haunter, Gardevoir, Musharna (sharing duties with Skuntank!), SpecsTaria, special Serperior and even Rapidash. I use a straightforward spread (maximum special bulk), with Wish/Protect for recovery and scouting (the Wishes rarely get passed, though), Lava Plume for a good STAB move that also can burn, and the probably rather unusual HP Rock which actually lets me threaten Magmortar, Charizard etc..
    Unfortunately, she lures in Rock-types like no other (except Skuntank), as well as really threatening sweepers like Samurott and Gorebyss which can set up pretty safely and threaten to demolish my team. I would love to carry Roar, Toxic, or HP Grass, but I can't find room for them (HP Rock is really great).
    Poison is a nightmare for her, but I can't fit on Heal Bell (so many options...). As long as I can stay clear of that, and avoid being set up on, Flareon does her job incredibly well, though.





    Threats

    Water-type attackers, specifically those with Water/Ice coverage (Ludicolo and Gorebyss mostly, but also rare stuff like Simipour or mixed Carracosta/Floatzel), give my team a lot of trouble. Tangela/Flareon are the only resists, respectively, and they both are slow and get wrecked by the other. I have Electabuzz for revenging, but well, it's only revenging, and if they can safely come in (mainly on Flareon), I pretty much have to lose a Pokemon.
    Samurott falls into a similar boat, with Megahorn dealing a ton of damage to Tangela. Skuntank can revenge it, but it still is a huge problem.

    Seemingly not as much as before, Vileplume and Amoonguss have potential to wall my entire team, especially if they manage to put Flareon to sleep. Thankfully, Haunter has alleviated this a bit (and the fact that I see the less bulky Vileplume more, and they never seem to carry recovery o_O).

    Cryogonal walls pretty much everything as well, aside from Golem (neither will switch in on each other, though), and Skuntank, who will take a lot of damage from Ice Beam. I can switch to Flareon first and lure a Toxic, but that is rather unreliable.

    There are probably other threats to fear, but I can handle them all more or less easily (Jynx is gone now, yay! it wasn't thaaaaat much of a problem, though).

    Since I can't find a better way to lead to the end, I just want to thank you for reading this!
    Rate away!

    Importable (open)

    Haunter (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Pain Split

    Golem (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch

    Flareon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    Tangela (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder

    Skuntank (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    Electabuzz (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

  2. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Yeah fine this is a great team and we've had some great battles with it, good job on making such an excellent team. No suggestions to give really, this epitomises NU balance and is always a bitch to face.
    Yay you did it, great rmt and DANK team :)
  3. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Cool team Limi. I luvdisc'ed it :]

    Yeah, you've pretty much listed every threat I've noticed here. There really isn't too much you can change without making drastic changes to the team, so I'm not going to even bother with a rate.

    Kudos on the great team bud :]
  4. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    688
    Nice team. If you're having problems with special attacking water types, you could give lapras a spin over electabuzz. He still stops gorebyss dead and with a bit of custom build, could probably handle samurott too. I'm sure you know what set would fit this team best.

    Good luck and well done with the high (maybe even higher?) peak :)
  5. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Limi :D

    Really nice team, I can only make a suggestion: Hidden Power [Grass] > Sucker Punch in Skuntank, should be good, you can lure Golem, Quagsire and others mons, then Electabuzz without Ground types in the opp team work better(and Flareon too!)

    Luvdisc'd
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
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    I also second having HP Grass on Skuntank, as your team likes having Quaggy and Golem lured out and taken down. I know you have a phobia of HP Grass random mons, but if you can't beat them, join them. Drop the Speed and have enough in SpA (hell, just run THIS spread)

    name: Mixed
    move 1: Sucker Punch
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Aftermath
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 252 Atk / 224 SpA / 32 Spe

    but for goodness sake speedcreep a little with this and golem. 48 at least for Golem, but 52 is probably better. I don't agree with HotNCold about replacing HP Grass for Sucker Punch though, as it's one of Tank's best moves, replace PURSUIT, as most Psychic types will just stay in, trying to get hit by a weaker Pursuit. Sucker Punch cheerfully OHKOs stuff like Magmortar (and your Electabuzz, hehe, dunno if you remember that match) after SR, so it should definetly stay.

    Or you can just, you know, ignore all of this. The team is obviously very good, I've battled it plenty of times and you seem to win practically all of the time despite me constantly haxing you, so I suppose that counts for something. What I'm trying to say is: Brilliant team man, Luvdisc'd, I wish you'd go easier on me in the future, and congratulations for using the shitty Flamara.
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Messages:
    1,025
    Amazing team Limi! I've only faced it a few times myself, but I know how tough it is to beat. Still, if you are looking for a replacement for Electabuzz that can revenge-kill Gorebyss, maybe you would consider Scarfed Tauros? It has Intimidate, base 110 Spe, base 100 Atk, and with some previous damage, you can revenge kill Gorebyss. Better yet, you outspeed almost everything in the tier that can KO you. With Intimidate support, it guarantees that even the birds won't be able to crack Tangela before you beat them. Of course, it is somewhat gimmicky, but I've never been disappointed with it's revenge killing capabilities. It certainly has more power than Cincinno at times, so that's a plus.

    There really aren't any problems with this team that haven't already been mentioned, so I'll just end this rate now by saying great job reaching 1420! :)
  8. Furosuto

    Furosuto

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,411
    Very balanced team (as the title says). I can't see really any weaknessess on the team either.
  9. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Good team Limi, Luvdisc'!

    I don't have any suggestion as this team is pretty good as it is, though I don't really think Skuntank is needed here but idk, it's probably just me.
  10. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    This team is fucking awesome Limi, looks like you're on your way to becoming a better player. I'll edit a full rate in later maybe if I can actually find a threat that can beat you :o

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