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Keldeo (Analysis - GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shrang, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    [​IMG]

    So only here because he's about to get his sorry ass banned.

    [Overview]

    <p>Keldeo is proof that a Pokemon can be cute, yet badass. As it is one of the most dominant Pokemon in OU, one would naturally assume that it would hold its own in Ubers, given the history of most of the other Pokemon that have been banned. However, while Keldeo's stats are titanic in OU, they are unfortunately quite average in Ubers. It just wishes it had a little bit more power and that little bit more speed. However, this does not mean Keldeo cannot function in Ubers. Its near-exclusive STAB combination allows it to manhandle Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that normally gives rain teams a lot of trouble. Although its movepool is lacking some key moves such as Ice Beam, Keldeo makes up for this with tricks of its own, which include its signature move, Secret Sword, and Taunt. It is one of the few Water-types in the tier that does not have trouble against Ferrothorn and virtually the only special attacking Fighting-type that can defeat Ho-oh without needing to resort to niche options. Use Keldeo wisely, and it will prove to be a powerful ally.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Secret Sword / Focus Blast
    move 4: Taunt / Hidden Power Ice / Icy Wind
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Consider Keldeo to be a slower Mewtwo but with much better STAB options. Naturally, this warrants the use of a Calm Mind set. What distinguishes this set from the other Water-type Calm Mind users in the tier is Secret Sword, which allows Keldeo to swat aside Blissey, Chansey, and in particular, Ferrothorn. Taunt also allows Keldeo to stop walls from recovering their health after it has blasted them with rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Calm Mind allows Keldeo to become very powerful in the rain, as well as develop some resilience on the special side. Hydro Pump hits monstrously hard in the rain, although Surf is a perfectly reliable option which is still strong enough to get the job done most of the time. Secret Sword is the Fighting-type STAB move of choice, as it not only has 100% accuracy, but OHKOes Blissey and Chansey. Focus Blast, however, is an option despite its poor accuracy, as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Arceus without a boost.</p>

    <p>For the last slot, Taunt is preferred, as it prevents Giratina from using Rest or status, stopping it from being an annoyance to your teammates. This allows you to continue to force it out without letting it recover. However, Hidden Power Ice has merit, as it OHKOes Rayquaza while severely damaging Giratina-O. Icy Wind still OHKOes Rayquaza after Stealth Rock, but it also allows Keldeo to take out suicide leads such as Deoxys-S by lowering their Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is as simple as you can get. Max Speed and a Timid nature are used to fully take advantage of Keldeo's good Speed, while max Special Attack allows for maximum power. The 4 Special Defense EVs conveniently give Genesect an Attack boost instead of a Special Attack boost, as Keldeo resists most of Genesect's physical attacks. As for item selection, Life Orb is the preferred choice because Keldeo tends to need as much power as it can get its hooves on. Alternatively, Keldeo can actually rely on its resistances to pivot into Genesect, making Leftovers a good option as well. Lum Berry can also be used to avoid status and muck up Darkrai. Scald is also an option as Keldeo's Water-type STAB for its burn chance, but Keldeo generally wants power more than having the chance to inflict status effects. Since most of the OHKOes gained by Life Orb come from Keldeo's Fighting-type STAB, Fist Plate can be used to get a good shot at still achieving those OHKOes (the guaranteed OHKO is usually lost, however), while allowing Keldeo to avoid additional residual damage.</p>

    <p>To highlight the difference in power between Life Orb and Leftovers, some damage calculations are presented here:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 97.75% - 115.32% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 75.68% - 89.19%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 103.96% - 122.28%</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 79.21% - 94.06%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 93.75% - 110.80% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 72.16% - 85.23%</li>
    <li>+1 Life Orb Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 98.86% - 116.48% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+1 Leftovers Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 76.70% - 90.34%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Since Keldeo is best used in the rain, Kyogre is an ideal teammate. However, Keldeo can also be used in the sand, especially when Tyranitar tends to trouble many of Keldeo's counters, such as the Giratina formes and Latias. If you're using Keldeo on a sand team, Leftovers will be the preferred item to negate sandstorm damage. Using a sand and rain dual weather team is also fine if that suits your fancy, and Keldeo works well on such a team.</p>

    <p>Keldeo is hard walled by Latias, Latios, and Giratina that carry Dragon Tail. Giratina-O can also take a Hidden Power Ice and Dragon Tail Keldeo out for massive damage. Kyogre can soften up Giratina formes by using Calm Mind and Ice Beam. Lum Berry Extreme Killer Arceus can also work well to weaken Giratina. Scizor can trap Latias and Latios if you are using rain, although you will need to watch out for Thunder, which 2HKOes Scizor. Genesect can U-turn on them as well, but again, watch out for Thunder. If you are not using rain, then Tyranitar traps the Latias and Latios with Pursuit. Thunder Wave Kyogre can lure out many of Keldeo's revenge killers, including the aforementioned Latias and Latios, as well as Choice Scarf Zekrom. Haban Berry Palkia and Garchomp are good at luring in Latias and KOing her with Outrage. Choice Specs Kyogre using Blizzard can also lure in Latias and severely wound it, if it hits.</p>

    <p>Finally, Keldeo appreciates Pokemon that can switch into its weaknesses. Dialga is good at covering most of Keldeo's weaknesses, resisting Electric-, Grass-, Flying-, and Psychic-type attacks. Ferrothorn also synergizes well with both Keldeo and Kyogre, while also setting up entry hazards so Keldeo can sweep more easily. Latias resists most of Keldeo's weaknesses as well. Genesect and Scizor can take Grass- and Psychic-type attacks aimed at Keldeo. Wobbuffet can switch into Keldeo's Psychic-type weakness, especially against Mewtwo, trap revenge killers locked into a move via Choice Scarf, and can also Encore support moves for Keldeo to set up on.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Attacking Lead
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Focus Blast / Secret Sword
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take full advantage of Keldeo's access to Taunt. With it, Keldeo can stop most leads from getting too many layers of entry hazards up. All four moves serve to stop different leads from doing their jobs. With Icy Wind and Hydro Pump, Keldeo is able to 2HKO Deoxys-S before it sets up more than one layer of entry hazards. Taunt stops slow leads such as Forretress, Groudon, and Skarmory, while Focus Blast OHKOes Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Dialga. The good thing about this set is that not only can Keldeo halt entry hazards in the beginning of the game, but also be relatively useful in the middle of the match, where it can blast things with rain-boosted Hydro Pumps, use Taunt to prevent them from recovering their health, and then immediately retreat. As for the Fighting STAB move of choice, even with its poor accuracy, Focus Blast is preferred as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Dialga and Ferrothorn when using a Life Orb. However, Secret Sword is still acceptable as for its reliability, and is an option if Lum Berry is used.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Both items have their merits. Life Orb allows Keldeo to 2HKO Deoxys-S with Icy Wind, as well as OHKOing Ferrothorn and Dialga. However, with Lum Berry, you can still Taunt Deoxys-S after you slow it down with Icy Wind. The main attraction of Lum Berry is obviously the fact that you can defeat Darkrai one-on-one. It also allows Keldeo to shrug off Thunder Wave from Groudon, Dialga, and Ferrothorn. Focus Sash is also an option, but the benefits of both Life Orb and Lum Berry generally outweigh those brought by Focus Sash. Splash Plate is another option to conserve Keldeo's health while still maintaining the 2HKO on Deoxys-S with Icy Wind and Hydro Pump.</p>

    <p>The EVs just maximize Speed and Special Attack, giving the leftover 4 EVs into Special Defense so Genesect gets an Attack boost instead. Toxic can replace Icy Wind so Keldeo can harass stall more, but it loses its ability to beat suicide leads.</p>

    <p>This Keldeo set is fairly self-sufficient. It generally only needs something to get rid of the sun. Kyogre is preferable due to the boost in power that Hydro Pump gives, while Tyranitar is good at removing Latias and Latios. Genesect can U-turn on Latias and Latios to give Keldeo free switches. Scizor is good at trapping Latias and Latios. Dialga, Latias, Ferrothorn can all switch into attacks that are super effective against Keldeo.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>The obvious sets that are not listed are Choice Scarf and Choice Specs sets. While they perform very well in OU, they are underwhelming in Ubers. The Choice Scarf set, while it is fast, is not that powerful, while the Choice Specs set is still not as strong as it needs to be while being relatively slow. Keldeo could potentially run a Substitute + Calm Mind set with 72 HP EVs to prevent Giratina from breaking its Substitute with Dragon Tail, but requires too long of setup to do anything significant, while a significant proportion of Giratina run Roar anyway. Keldeo also has access to some decent physical options, such as Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, and Close Combat, but its Attack is way too low to consider these seriously.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If you want to find a counter to something as cute as Keldeo, your best bet is something just as cute: Latias. Her gigantic Special Defense allows her to tank pretty much anything Keldeo throws at her and then OHKO the pony with Psyshock or Calm Mind alongside it and take it down with Thunder or Grass Knot. Keep in mind, however, that you should not drag out the Calm Mind war, as a boosted Secret Sword will hurt because it strikes on Latias's much lower Defense stat. If you're not using Latias, her brother Latios serves a very similar purpose when it comes to dealing with the pony. The Giratina formes also wall Keldeo pretty badly, although a boosted Hidden Power Ice will severely damage Giratina-O. Taunt will also foil any Giratina that doesn't use attacking moves. Grass Arceus can paralyze Keldeo with Thunder Wave and then smite it with Judgment. Swords Dance Water and Dragon Arceus can both take a boosted Secret Sword, use Swords Dance, and OHKO Keldeo with rain boosted Waterfall or Outrage. If Water Arceus uses Calm Mind and Thunder, it can also defeat Keldeo. Bulky Kyogre is also problematic for Keldeo, as it can take a boosted Secret Sword while hitting back extremely hard with Thunder. Gyarados can take one attack from Keldeo and Dragon Tail it out. While it cannot take Hydro Pump very well, Groudon can bring in the sun and weaken Keldeo's Water-type attacks, making it much more manageable. If Keldeo is not using an Ice-type move, Rayquaza can tank an attack and OHKO in return with Outrage.</p>

    <p>Keldeo can also be revenge killed relatively easily. Choice Scarf users such as Zekrom OHKO it regardless of Calm Mind boosts with Bolt Strike, as can Ho-oh with Brave Bird, Kyurem-B with Fusion Bolt, and Mewtwo with Psystrike. Thundurus, Electric Arceus, Tornadus, and Tornadus-T can OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Thunder or Hurricane, respectively. Shaymin-S can also OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Seed Flare. Choice Scarf Palkia, Dialga, and Kyogre can also deal a lot of damage with Thunder, but will fail to OHKO a +1 Keldeo.</p>
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  2. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    On CM I would out HP Ice before Taunt, and most Genesect are physical (lol Thunder Genesect) and since some people may run Scarf Keldeo not much of a point (also not like Gene will be switching into anything but HP Ice if it's confirmed not Scarf.

    Also why say things to switch into Keldeos weaknesses, it's not like it can take a neutral Outrage anyway...
  3. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Taunt is a niche that Keldeo holds. You don't hit anything special with HP Ice really, sure Giratina-O and Rayquaza, but preventing Giratina from resting, Lugia from paralyzing etc is usually better.
  4. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    Yeah, just did a calc, Rayquaza alone (lol @damage to Giratina) isn't worth it, and I guess Keldeo really doesn't have much else. Honestly Keldeo in Ubers is a joke and it's only getting an inb4 ban analysis because that's all OU does
  5. trickroom

    trickroom
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    We discussed this over, and Keldeo has a niche. Missing Electric Arceus in checks lol, since you mentioned Water Arceus, which I think Keldeo can beat with boosted Secret Swords or Focus Blast especially when Arceus is slower. Support Water and Grass Arceus are slower than max Speed Keldeo. Unless Water Arceus is carrying Thunder or Roar, Keldeo will kill it eventually, as boosted Secret Swords will bring it down.

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 231-273 (52.02 - 61.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Arceus-Water: 251-296 (56.53 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I think Focus Sash needs a small mention in the Lead set.

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  6. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    It Taunts shit.

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  7. tehy

    tehy

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    Edit: Eh, i guess it qualifies under slow leads
  8. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    All changes implemented. Thanks for the QC checks trickroom and Melee, will write this up soon.
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    remove jellicent, amoonguss, and slowking please. a bit torn about the last and celebi, but for now just keep celebi
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Okay so I tested Toxic Keldeo and it's cool but not own set cool. How about changing the name of the CM set to Offensive and then ACing Toxic there?
  11. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Okay, I've finished writing. This is ready for the third QC check.
  12. tehy

    tehy

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    So in your Taunt lead's AC:

    'Life Orb allows Keldeo to 2HKO Deoxys-S with Icy Wind'

    Also, it feels like you're being a bit short with the partners section; especially at the end. Why not at least name the SE types each partner absorbs, and give a bit on what each partner does besides weather/SE attacks taking?

    And there are a couple sentences that could totally be combined, although that's a bit of personal preference on my part.
  13. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Looks great, pony is indeed adorable. QC Approved 3/3
  14. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Man, fucking broken computers, ruining my work time... Anyways, time for me to nitpick!

    Overview
    • "There is no denying that Keldeo is the wet dream of every man's girly side.". Man, this is just a flavor thing, but I don't know about this line. Seems a bit too crude to me!
    Calm Mind
    • I'm not sure this deserves a slash, but I want Scald to get mentioned somewhere. On a Leftovers set with Taunt, it can be useful for AT LEAST being able to screw with Rayquaza switch-ins.
    • Sorta cliche coming from me, but I found Wobbuffet to be a really useful teammate. Sorta like Mewtwo, Keldeo really hates a lot of Scarfed mons, and of course, Wobbuffet took them out and could help set up Keldeo too! Also, Wobbuffet can destroy Mewtwo in the rain, which again, is good news for Keldeo. In general, you might want to mention that scarfers like Zekrom are a big problem for CM Keldeo, thus stuff like Thunder Wave Kyogre can help.
    • I'm surprised you didn't mention Blizzard Choice Specs Kyogre as a Latias lure :p. Haban Palkia and Haban Garchomp can work out as lures too!
    • As weird as it sounds, I actually used Tyranitar as a teammate even on a team with Kyogre. Keldeo is fairly well suited for Sand + Rain dual weather teams!
    • You mention this in AC, but I think you should mention right in the comments that a big selling point over Mewtwo is being able to deal with Genesect more easily!
    • I think you need a section that focuses on Life Orb vs Leftovers, stuff like damage calcs and the pros and cons of each. Also, I'd like Splash Plate to get mentioned as a compromise between the two.
    Attacking Lead
    • I haven't really used this myself, but I remember Melee Mewtwo talking about Splash Plate on this thing. What are your thoughts?
  15. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Okay, implemented all of Theorymon's changes. This is ready for GP.
  16. Ender

    Ender Comfortably Numb
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    GP Check 1/2

    Additions and Changes
    Deletions
    [Comments]


    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Keldeo is proof that a Pokemon can be cute, [comma] yet badass. Being As it is one of the most dominant Pokemon in OU, one would naturally assume that it would hold its own in Ubers, given the history of most of the other Pokemon that have been banned from standard. However, while Keldeo's stats are titanic in OU, they are unfortunately quite average in Ubers. It just wishes it had a little bit more power and that little bit more speed. However, this does not mean Keldeo cannot function in Ubers. Its near-exclusive STAB combination allows it to manhandle Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that normally gives rain teams a lot of trouble. Although its movepool is lacking some key moves such as Ice Beam, Keldeo makes up for this with tricks of its own, which include its signature move, [comma] in Secret Sword, [comma] and Taunt. It is one of the few Water-types in the tier that does not have trouble against Ferrothorn [removed comma] and virtually the only special attacking Fighting-type that can defeat Ho-oh without needing to resort to niche options. Use Keldeo wisely, and it will prove to be a powerful ally.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Secret Sword / Focus Blast
    move 4: Taunt / Hidden Power Ice / Icy Wind
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Consider Keldeo to be a slower Mewtwo but with much better STAB options. Naturally, this warrants the use of a Calm Mind set. What distinguishes sets this set from the other Water-type Calm Mind users in the tier is Secret Sword, which allows Keldeo to swat aside Blissey, Chansey, and in particular, Ferrothorn. Taunt also allows Keldeo to stop walls from recovering their health after it has blasted them with rain boosted Hydro Pumps. Calm Mind allows Keldeo to become very powerful in the rain, as well as developing develop some resilience on the special side. Hydro Pump hits monstrously hard in the rain, although Surf is a perfectly reliable option that which is still strong enough to get the job done most of the time. Secret Sword is the Fighting-type STAB move of choice, as it not only has 100% accuracy, but also OHKOes Blissey and Chansey. Focus Blast, however, is an option despite its poor accuracy, as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Ferrothorn, Dialga, [comma] and Arceus without a boost.</p>

    <p>As For the last slot, Taunt is preferred, [comma] as it prevents Giratina from using Rest or status, preventing stopping it from being an annoyance annoying to your teammates. This allows you to continue to force it out without letting it recover. However, Hidden Power Ice has merit, [comma] as it OHKOes Rayquaza while severely damaging Giratina-O. Icy Wind still OHKOes Rayquaza after Stealth Rock, but it also allows Keldeo to take out suicide leads such as Deoxys-S by lowering their speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is as simple as you can get. Max Speed and a Timid nature is are used to fully take advantage of Keldeo's good speed, while max Special Attack allows for maximum power. The 4 SpD EVs conveniently give Genesect an Attack boost instead of a Special Attack boost, as Keldeo resists most of Genesect's physical attacks. As for item selection, Life Orb is the preferred choice because Keldeo tends to need as much power as it can get its hooves on. Otherwise, Alternatively, Keldeo can actually rely on its resistances to pivot into Genesect, making Leftovers a good option as well. Lum Berry can also be used to avoid status and muck up Darkrai. Scald is also an option as Keldeo's the Water-type STAB for because of its burn chance, but Keldeo generally wants power more than having the chance to inflict status effects. Since most of the OHKOs gained by Life Orb come from Keldeo's Fighting STAB, Fist Plate can be used to get a good shot at still achieving those OHKOes (the guaranteed OHKO is usually lost, however), while allowing Keldeo to avoid additional residual damage.</p>

    <p>To highlight the difference in power between Life Orb and Leftovers, some damage calculations are presented here:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 97.75% - 115.32% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 75.68% - 89.19%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 103.96% - 122.28%</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 79.21% - 94.06%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 93.75% - 110.80% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 72.16% - 85.23%</li>
    <li>+1 Life Orb Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 98.86% - 116.48% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+1 Leftovers Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 76.70% - 90.34%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Since Keldeo is best used in the rain, Kyogre is an ideal teammate. However, Keldeo can also be used in the sand, especially when Tyranitar tends to trouble many of Keldeo's counters, such as the Giratina formes and Latias. If you're using Keldeo on a sand team, Leftovers will be the preferred item to negate sandstorm damage. Using a sand and rain dual weather team is also fine if that suits your fancy, and Keldeo works well on such a team.</p>

    <p>Keldeo is hard walled by Latias, Latios, and Giratina that carry Dragon Tail. Giratina-O can also take a Hidden Power Ice and Dragon Tail Keldeo out for massive damage. Kyogre can soften up Giratina formes pretty badly by using Calm Mind and Ice Beam. Lum Berry ExtremeKiller Arceus can also work well to weaken Giratina. Scizor can trap Latias and Latios if you are using rain, although you will need to watch out for Thunder, which 2HKOes Scizor. Genesect can force U-turn on them as well, but again, watch out for Thunder. If you are not using rain, then Tyranitar traps Latias and Latios the Lati twins with Pursuit. Thunder Wave Kyogre can lure out many of Keldeo's revenge killers, including the aforementioned Latias and Latios Lati twins, as well as Choice Scarf Zekrom. Haban Berry Palkia and Garchomp are good at luring in Latias and KOing her with Outrage. Choice Specs Kyogre using Blizzard can also lure in Latias and severely wound it, provided that Blizzard doesn't miss if it hits.</p>

    <p>Finally, Keldeo appreciates Pokemon that can switch into its weaknesses. Dialga is good at covering most of Keldeo's weaknesses, resisting Electric-, Grass-, Flying-, and Psychic-type attacks. Ferrothorn also synergizes well with both Keldeo and Kyogre, while also setting up entry hazards so Keldeo can sweep more easily. Latias resists most of Keldeo's weaknesses as well. Genesect and Scizor can take Grass- and Psychic-type attacks aimed at Keldeo. Wobbuffet can switch into Keldeo's Psychic-type weakness, especially against Mewtwo, trap revenge killers locked into a move via Choice Scarf, and can as well as Encore support moves for Keldeo to set up on.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Attacking Lead
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Focus Blast / Secret Sword
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take full advantage of Keldeo's access to Taunt. With it, Keldeo can stop most leads from getting too many layers of hazards up. All four moves serve to stop different leads from doing their jobs. With Icy Wind and Hydro Pump, Keldeo is able to 2HKO Deoxys-S before it sets up more than one layer of entry hazards. Taunt stops slow leads such as Forretress, Groudon, and Skarmory, while Focus Blast OHKOes Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Dialga. The good thing about this set is that not only can Keldeo halt entry hazards in the beginning of the game, but it can also be relatively useful in the middle of the match, where it can blast things with rain-boosted Hydro Pump, use Taunt to prevent them from recovering their health, and then immediately retreat. As for the Fighting-type STAB move of choice, even with its poor accuracy, Focus Blast is preferred as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Dialga and Ferrothorn when using a Life Orb. However, Secret Sword is still acceptable as for its reliability [removed ,] and is an option if Lum Berry is used.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Both items have their merits. Life Orb allows Keldeo to 2HKO Deoxys-S with Icy Wind and , as well as OHKOing Ferrothorn and Dialga with Focus Blast. However, with Lum Berry, you can still Taunt Deoxys-S after you slow it down with Icy Wind. The main attraction of Lum Berry is obviously the fact that you can defeat Darkrai one-on-one. It also allows Keldeo to shrug off Thunder Wave from Groudon, Dialga, and Ferrothorn. Focus Sash is also an option, but the benefits of both Life Orb and Lum Berry generally outweigh those brought by Focus Sash. Splash Plate is another option to conserve Keldeo's health while still maintaining the 2HKO on Deoxys-S with Icy Wind and Hydro Pump.</p>

    <p>The EVs just maximize Speed and Special Attack, giving the leftover 4 EVs into Special Defense, [comma] so that Genesect gets an Attack boost instead. Toxic can replace Icy Wind so Keldeo can harrass stall more, but it loses its ability to beat suicide leads.</p>

    <p>This Keldeo set is fairly self-sufficient. It generally only needs something to get rid of the sun. Kyogre is preferable due to the boost in power that Hydro Pump gives, while Tyranitar is good at removing Latias and Latios. Genesect can U-turn on Latias and Latios to give Keldeo free switches. Scizor is good at trapping Latias and Latios. Dialga, Latias, Ferrothorn can all switch into attacks that are super effective against Keldeo.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>The obvious sets that are not listed are Choice Scarf and Choice Specs sets. While they perform very well in OU, they are underwhelming in Ubers. The Choice Scarf set, while it is fast, is not that powerful, while the Choice Specs set is still not as strong as it needs to be while also being relatively slow. Keldeo could potentially run a Substitute + Calm Mind set with 72 HP EVs to prevent Giratina from breaking its Substitute with Dragon Tail, but requires too long of setup to do anything significant, while most a significant proportion of Giratina run Roar anyway. Keldeo also has access to some decent physical options such as Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, and Close Combat, but its Attack stat is way too low to consider these seriously.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If you want to find a counter to something as cute as Keldeo, your best bet is something just as cute: [added :] in Latias. Her gigantic Special Defense allows her to tank pretty much anything Keldeo throws at her [removed ,] and then OHKO the pony with Psyshock or Calm Mind alongside it and take it down with Thunder or Grass Knot. Keep in mind, however, that you do should not drag out the Calm Mind war, [comma] as boosted Secret Sword will hurt, [comma] since it strikes on Latias's much lower Defense stat. If you're not using Latias, her brother Latios serves a very similar purpose when it comes to in dealing with the pony. The Giratina formes also wall Keldeo pretty badly, although boosted Hidden Power Ice will severely damage Giratina-O. Taunt will also foil any Giratina that doesn't use attacking moves. Grass Arceus can paralyze Keldeo with Thunder Wave and then smite while smiting it with Judgment. Swords Dance Water or and Dragon Arceus can both take a boosted Secret Sword, use Swords Dance, [comma] and OHKO Keldeo with rain boosted Waterfall or Outrage. If Water Arceus uses Calm Mind and Thunder, it can also defeat Keldeo. Bulky Kyogre is also problematic for Keldeo, as it can take a boosted Secret Sword while hitting back extremely hard with Thunder. Gyarados can take one attack from Keldeo and Dragon Tail it out. While it cannot take Hydro Pump very well, Groudon can bring in the sun and weaken Keldeo's Water-type attacks, making it much more manageable. If Keldeo is not using an Ice-type move, Rayquaza can tank an attack and OHKO in return with Outrage.</p>

    <p>Keldeo can also be revenge killed relatively easily. Choice Scarf users such as Zekrom OHKO it regardless of Calm Mind boosts with Bolt Strike, as can Ho-oh with Brave Bird, Kyurem-B with Fusion Bolt, and Mewtwo with Psystrike. Thundurus, Electric Arceus, Tornadus, and Tornadus-T can OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Thunder or and Hurricane, respectively. Shaymin-S can also OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Seed Flare. Choice Scarf Palkia, Dialga, and Kyogre can also deal a lot of damage with Thunder, but will fail to OHKO a +1 Keldeo.</p>
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  17. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Thanks for the check Ender37, I'm implemented the changes. Onto GP check 2!
  18. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    @shrang

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]

    <p>Keldeo is proof that a Pokemon can be cute, yet badass. As it is one of the most dominant Pokemon in OU, one would naturally assume that it would hold its own in Ubers, given the history of most of the other Pokemon that have been banned. However, while Keldeo's stats are titanic in OU, they are unfortunately quite average in Ubers. It just wishes it had a little bit more power and that little bit more speed. However, this does not mean Keldeo cannot function in Ubers. Its near-exclusive STAB combination allows it to manhandle Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that normally gives rain teams a lot of trouble. Although its movepool is lacking some key moves such as Ice Beam, Keldeo makes up for this with tricks of its own, which include its signature move, Secret Sword, and Taunt. It is one of the few Water-types in the tier that does not have trouble against Ferrothorn and virtually the only special attacking Fighting-type that can defeat Ho-oh without needing to resort to niche options. Use Keldeo wisely, and it will prove to be a powerful ally.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Secret Sword / Focus Blast
    move 4: Taunt / Hidden Power Ice / Icy Wind
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Consider Keldeo to be a slower Mewtwo but with much better STAB options. Naturally, this warrants the use of a Calm Mind set. What distinguishes this set from the other Water-type Calm Mind users in the tier is Secret Sword, which allows Keldeo to swat aside Blissey, Chansey, and in particular, Ferrothorn. Taunt also allows Keldeo to stop walls from recovering their health after it has blasted them with rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Calm Mind allows Keldeo to become very powerful in the rain, as well as develop some resilience on the special side. Hydro Pump hits monstrously hard in the rain, although Surf is a perfectly reliable option which is still strong enough to get the job done most of the time. Secret Sword is the Fighting-type STAB move of choice, as it not only has 100% accuracy, but also OHKOes Blissey and Chansey. Focus Blast, however, is an option despite its poor accuracy, as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Ferrothorn, Dialga, (AC) and Arceus without a boost.</p>

    <p>For the last slot, Taunt is preferred, as it prevents Giratina from using Rest or status, stopping it from being an annoyance to your teammates. This allows you to continue to force it out without letting it recover. However, Hidden Power Ice has merit, as it OHKOes Rayquaza while severely damaging Giratina-O. Icy Wind still OHKOes Rayquaza after Stealth Rock, but it also allows Keldeo to take out suicide leads such as Deoxys-S by lowering their Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is as simple as you can get. Max Speed and a Timid nature are used to fully take advantage of Keldeo's good Speed, while max Special Attack allows for maximum power. The 4 Special Defense EVs conveniently give Genesect an Attack boost instead of a Special Attack boost, as Keldeo resists most of Genesect's physical attacks. As for item selection, Life Orb is the preferred choice because Keldeo tends to need as much power as it can get its hooves on. Alternatively, Keldeo can actually rely on its resistances to pivot into Genesect, making Leftovers a good option as well. Lum Berry can also be used to avoid status and muck up Darkrai. Scald is also an option as Keldeo's Water-type STAB for its burn chance, but Keldeo generally wants power more than having the chance to inflict status effects. Since most of the OHKOes gained by Life Orb come from Keldeo's Fighting-type STAB, Fist Plate can be used to get a good shot at still achieving those OHKOes (the guaranteed OHKO is usually lost, however), while allowing Keldeo to avoid additional residual damage.</p>

    <p>To highlight the difference in power between Life Orb and Leftovers, some damage calculations are presented here:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 97.75% - 115.32% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 75.68% - 89.19%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 103.96% - 122.28%</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 79.21% - 94.06%</li>
    <li>+0 Life Orb Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 93.75% - 110.80% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+0 Leftovers Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 72.16% - 85.23%</li>
    <li>+1 Life Orb Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 98.86% - 116.48% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+1 Leftovers Secret Sword vs 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Ferrothorn: 76.70% - 90.34%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Since As Keldeo is best used in the rain, Kyogre is an ideal teammate. However, Keldeo can also be used in the sand, especially when Tyranitar tends to trouble many of Keldeo's counters, such as the Giratina formes and Latias. If you're using Keldeo on a sand team, Leftovers will be the preferred item to negate sandstorm damage. Using a sand and rain dual weather team is also fine if that suits your fancy, and Keldeo works well on such a team.</p>

    <p>Keldeo is hard walled by Latias, Latios, and Giratina that carry Dragon Tail. Giratina-O can also take a Hidden Power Ice and Dragon Tail Keldeo out for massive damage. Kyogre can soften up Giratina formes pretty badly by using Calm Mind and Ice Beam. Lum Berry Extreme Killer Arceus can also work well to weaken Giratina. Scizor can trap Latias and Latios if you are using rain, although you will need to watch out for Thunder, which 2HKOes Scizor. Genesect can U-turn on them as well, but again, watch out for Thunder. If you are not using rain, then Tyranitar traps the Latias and Latios with Pursuit. Thunder Wave Kyogre can lure out many of Keldeo's revenge killers, including the aforementioned Latias and Latios, as well as Choice Scarf Zekrom. Haban Berry Palkia and Garchomp are good at luring in Latias and KOing her with Outrage. Choice Specs Kyogre using Blizzard can also lure in Latias and severely wound it, if it hits.</p>

    <p>Finally, Keldeo appreciates Pokemon that can switch into its weaknesses. Dialga is good at covering most of Keldeo's weaknesses, resisting Electric-, Grass-, Flying-, and Psychic-type attacks. Ferrothorn also synergizes well with both Keldeo and Kyogre, while also setting up entry hazards so Keldeo can sweep more easily. Latias resists most of Keldeo's weaknesses as well. Genesect and Scizor can take Grass- and Psychic-type attacks aimed at Keldeo. Wobbuffet can switch into Keldeo's Psychic-type weakness, especially against Mewtwo, trap revenge killers locked into a move via Choice Scarf, and can also Encore support moves for Keldeo to set up on.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Attacking Lead
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Focus Blast / Secret Sword
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take full advantage of Keldeo's access to Taunt. With it, Keldeo can stop most leads from getting too many layers of entry hazards up. All four moves serve to stop different leads from doing their jobs. With Icy Wind and Hydro Pump, Keldeo is able to 2HKO Deoxys-S before it sets up more than one layer of entry hazards. Taunt stops slow leads such as Forretress, Groudon, and Skarmory, while Focus Blast OHKOes Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Dialga. The good thing about this set is that not only can Keldeo halt entry hazards in the beginning of the game, but also be relatively useful in the middle of the match, where it can blast things with rain-boosted Hydro Pumps, use Taunt to prevent them from recovering their health, and then immediately retreat. As for the Fighting STAB move of choice, even with its poor accuracy, Focus Blast is preferred, (AC) as it allows Keldeo to OHKO Dialga and Ferrothorn when using a Life Orb. However, Secret Sword is still acceptable as for its reliability, and is an option if Lum Berry is used.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Both items have their merits. Life Orb allows Keldeo to 2HKO Deoxys-S with Icy Wind, as well as OHKOing Ferrothorn and Dialga. However, with Lum Berry, you can still Taunt Deoxys-S after you slow it down with Icy Wind. The main attraction of Lum Berry is obviously the fact that you can defeat Darkrai one-on-one. It also allows Keldeo to shrug off Thunder Wave from Groudon, Dialga, and Ferrothorn. Focus Sash is also an option, but the benefits of both Life Orb and Lum Berry generally outweigh those brought by Focus Sash. Splash Plate is another option to conserve Keldeo's health while still maintaining the 2HKO on Deoxys-S with Icy Wind and Hydro Pump.</p>

    <p>The EVs just maximize Speed and Special Attack, giving the leftover 4 EVs into Special Defense so Genesect gets an Attack boost instead. Toxic can replace Icy Wind so Keldeo can harass stall more, but it loses its ability to beat suicide leads.</p>

    <p>This Keldeo set is fairly self-sufficient. It generally only needs something to get rid of the sun. Kyogre is preferable due to the boost in power that Hydro Pump gives, while Tyranitar is good at removing Latias and Latios. Genesect can U-turn on Latias and Latios to give Keldeo free switches. Scizor is good at trapping Latias and Latios. Dialga, Latias, Ferrothorn can all switch into attacks that are super effective against Keldeo.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>The obvious sets that are not listed are Choice Scarf and Choice Specs sets. While they perform very well in OU, they are underwhelming in Ubers. The Choice Scarf set, while it is fast, is not that powerful, while the Choice Specs set is still not as strong as it needs to be while being relatively slow. Keldeo could potentially run a Substitute + Calm Mind set with 72 HP EVs to prevent Giratina from breaking its Substitute with Dragon Tail, but requires too long of setup to do anything significant, while a significant proportion of Giratina run Roar anyway. Keldeo also has access to some decent physical options, (AC) such as Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, and Close Combat, but its Attack stat is way too low to consider these seriously.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If you want to find a counter to something as cute as Keldeo, your best bet is something just as cute: Latias. Her gigantic Special Defense allows her to tank pretty much anything Keldeo throws at her and then OHKO the pony with Psyshock or Calm Mind alongside it and take it down with Thunder or Grass Knot. Keep in mind, however, that you should not drag out the Calm Mind war, as a boosted Secret Sword will hurt since because it strikes on Latias's much lower Defense stat. If you're not using Latias, her brother Latios serves a very similar purpose when it comes to dealing with the pony. The Giratina formes also wall Keldeo pretty badly, although a boosted Hidden Power Ice will severely damage Giratina-O. Taunt will also foil any Giratina that doesn't use attacking moves. Grass Arceus can paralyze Keldeo with Thunder Wave and then smite it with Judgment. Swords Dance Water and Dragon Arceus can both take a boosted Secret Sword, use Swords Dance, (AC) and OHKO Keldeo with rain boosted Waterfall or Outrage. If Water Arceus uses Calm Mind and Thunder, it can also defeat Keldeo. Bulky Kyogre is also problematic for Keldeo, as it can take a boosted Secret Sword while hitting back extremely hard with Thunder. Gyarados can take one attack from Keldeo and Dragon Tail it out. While it cannot take Hydro Pump very well, Groudon can bring in the sun and weaken Keldeo's Water-type attacks, making it much more manageable. If Keldeo is not using an Ice-type move, Rayquaza can tank an attack and OHKO in return with Outrage.</p>

    <p>Keldeo can also be revenge killed relatively easily. Choice Scarf users such as Zekrom OHKO it regardless of Calm Mind boosts with Bolt Strike, as can Ho-oh with Brave Bird, Kyurem-B with Fusion Bolt, and Mewtwo with Psystrike. Thundurus, Electric Arceus, Tornadus, and Tornadus-T can OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Thunder or Hurricane, respectively. Shaymin-S can also OHKO a +1 Keldeo with Seed Flare. Choice Scarf Palkia, Dialga, and Kyogre can also deal a lot of damage with Thunder, but will fail to OHKO a +1 Keldeo.</p>


    2/2
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  19. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Thanks for the GP check GatoDelFuego, this is now done.
  20. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    Keldeo is uploaded. Let's see if the Ubers analysis curse continues...

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