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Keldeo (Choice Scarf) [QC 3/3][GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by jc104, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Secret Sword
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Keldeo might lack the wallbreaking power of its other sets, but instead becomes a powerful revenge killer and late-game sweeper for use on rain teams. At 129, Keldeo has the highest base Special Attack stat of all Water-type Pokemon available in OU; this and its excellent Speed clearly make it the best Pokemon for the job. It's extremely satisfying to see an opponent attempt to revenge kill Keldeo with Jolteon or Tornadus-T only to find that they are outrun and OHKOed by Hydro Pump or even Surf after Stealth Rock damage. Though running both of these STAB moves together might seem strange, Keldeo really doesn't need to use much else, and doesn't have many other options anyway. Surf is the staple move, but often the additional power of Hydro Pump will be required to revenge kill a specific threat. Secret Sword is relatively weak, but it will help to deal with troublesome opponents such as Blissey, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, 2HKOing all three. Other than that, Keldeo has very few options besides Hidden Power. Hidden Power Ice is the best, as it allows Keldeo to revenge kill threats such as Dragonite, which it will outrun even after two Dragon Dances, as well as +1 Salamence. Even when super effective, Hidden Power Ice is still not significantly more powerful than a resisted Hydro Pump in the rain, but it will hit targets such as Breloom more accurately, and is more effective against them outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As Keldeo tends only to spam Water-type attacks, a variety of other moves can be used in place of Hidden Power Ice or Secret Sword, though none are frequently useful. Hidden Power Psychic mauls Toxicroak, which would otherwise completely wall Keldeo, while doing a little more to Tentacruel, Breloom, and Amoonguss. However, using this requires the use of a 30 Speed IV, causing you to lose out on a Speed tie with opposing Keldeo and Terrakion. Hidden Power Electric will OHKO all common Gyarados variants after Stealth Rock damage, and will do significantly more (and yet still not nearly enough) damage to Jellicent. Hidden Power Grass will do good damage to Gastrodon, Hidden Power Flying will maim Breloom and Virizion, and Hidden Power Bug might allow you to break through Celebi. If using any of these options, Icy Wind can replace Hidden Power Ice, as it still allows you to revenge kill weakened Dragonite and Salamence. Focus Blast could potentially be used for its good power, but won't break through Chansey and Blissey, which was largely the point of Secret Sword in the first placeSecret Sword is not a power move, but rather a coverage move. Scald could be used for its spectacular secondary effect, while Toxic could be used to cripple some opposing walls (such as Jellicent).</p>

    <p>As far as support is concerned, Politoed should be the number one teammate; it provides the power that Keldeo really needs, even if it stacks up your team's weaknesses a bit. Other teammates should be used to remove Keldeo's hard counters, of which there are a fair few. Most critical are Celebi, Jellicent, Latias, Toxicroak, Amoonguss, and Tentacruelthese pokemon are not only resistant or immune to Water, but also extremely durable and as such usually require trapping. Choice Specs Gothitelle is probably your best option in this respect, especially variants with Signal Beam, as they can take out Celebi. Alternatively, a number of these Pokemon are weak to Pursuit, and as such Weavile, although not generally a strong option in OU, is a rather good partner. If you don't want to base your team around a Keldeo sweep in this way, other Ice- and Psychic-types can at least force these Pokemon out. Finally, it's worth supporting Keldeo with Stealth Rock, because it lets Keldeo revenge kill Dragonite, and helps to wear down Water-resistant Pokemon as you hit them with repeated Surfs and Hydro Pumps. If you manage to take down those few very troublesome Pokemon, not much can handle Keldeo's barrage of rain-boosted Water-type attacks.</p>
  2. Trinitrotoluene

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    The Keldeo analysis still hasn't passed GP yet. Shouldn't it be posted there rather than in a separate thread of its own?
  3. Pocket

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    Stone Edge OHKOs offensive Volcarona and does 55% min to max HP / max Def+ Volcarona. (Hasty / Naive Nature).

    Icy Wind is certainly nice for letting Keldeo choose an alternative Hidden Power. It still OHKOs offensive DDNite and Salamence after Rocks. Icy Wind does only 54-64% to Haxorus, but Hydro Pump in the rain hits pretty much as hard as HP Ice.

    Focus Blast is worth a look - Secret Sword's power doesn't cut it some times. Focus Blast OHKOs Haxorus after Rocks.

    HP Grass / Psychic are definitely great for sniping Gastrodon and Toxicroak, respectively. It would want HP Electric if it wants to revenge Gyarados. HP Flying is notable for taking out an SD Virizion after the SDef drops or CM Virision w/o the CM boosts and some residual damage (76-90%).

    I'd remove Endeavor. It's outclassed by all the other filler options available to Keldeo.

    Hydro Pump - Sacred Sword - Icy Wind - HP Ele / Stone Edge / Surf sounds the most promising imo.
  4. ginganinja

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    Weighing in since iv been using this baby for ages

    Drop Stone Edge, tbh, if I wanted to run Scarf Keldeo, id run Rain with it (otherwise your struggling to find a niche over Terrakion which gets better coverage with its 2 STABS) which means that with Rain, you can beat Volcarona with Hydro Pump. Im not really sure why you would run Stone Edge, especially since a) your running Rain and b) Bulky Volcarona is going to Quiver as you switch in, tank the SE, Quiver Again, and then outspeed and Morning Sun, basically you lose (unless im missing something obvious) I suppose Volcarona could be running a slow EV spread but outrunning Scarf Terrakion @ +2 would be something id want my Volcarona to handle. Tbh, this is how I would order it

    Hydro Pump
    Secret Sword
    Icy Wind / Hidden Power Ice
    Hidden Power (Id recommend Psychic since it hits all bulky poison types for SE damage (which includes Venusaur) / Surf (if your running HP Ice)

    Don't like:
    HP Grass since id rather hit it with SS tbh and save my Hidden Power slot for something my STABS don't deal with.
    HP Electric, I know its good for Gyarados, but I think its use is limited outside of that and again, I think their are better options out there. I do think that the Hidden Power slot is going to come down to user preference tho.

    We already discussed this, it passed QC, and I don't think there is not much point in forcing Harsha back into QC when we can just QC this set and add it to the analysis. Also, I'm pretty sure I was the only person in QC testing this set when the analysis was going through QC and it got lukewarm reception but thats changed now :)
  5. Ojama

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    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justifed
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe

    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Secret Sword
    ~ Hidden Power [Ice]
    ~ Surf / Focus Blast
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I've written a real skeleton now.

    Still not sure which HP to slash with Ice in that third slot. I could see use for many (electric, psychic, grass, even bug). Bear in mind that Psychic drops your speed IV.

    Focus Blast is also under consideration in the last slot.
  7. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    OK after testing Hydro Pump lost me so many games that I'm going to make surf the only option. I only used HP Flying once and didn't use HP electric at all, and even in that game Hydro Pump screwed me over anyway.

    Yes, I was probably very unlucky, but I could see that there were situations in which I would actually use surf, whereas the other options would be used extremely rarely.
  8. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    Seconding this, without a damage boosting item Hidden Powers are really weak and so is icy wind. HP Ice hits the most important/dangerous sweepers for SE damage and offers imo the best coverage.
    HP Ghost seems tempting , but without heavy hazards support you are not 2HKOing any of the pokemon you want to hit with it.
    The other Hidden Powers are all more or less only for one pokemon and could obviously used if your team is weak to them, they could all be mentioned in OO imo since the choice of Hidden Power is an issue that applies to all sets, but imo HP Ice is the right choice 90% of the time.
    Surf is useful on the last slot because Keldeo is likely an important revenge killer with this set so Hydro Pumps accuracy issues can be frustrating and like jc104 i also have expirienced many moments where i would have loved being able to use a 100% accurate water stab to pull off a game winning late game sweep. Focus Blast is also an option if you need a little more beef behind your fighting stab considering that without a boosting item the 85BP of Secret Sword sometimes just isn't enough.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I'd really buff up on the Teammates description. Scarf Keldeo is walled by many mons that can absorb Water moves, so you'd want to include mons that can deal with them. Gothitelle can trap and destroy Amoonguss & Tentacruel (Psyshock), Celebi (Signal Beam), Gastrodon & Jellicent (Grass Knot), and Latias & SD Toxicroak (Trick).

    Along with the Weavile you mentioned, Mamoswine sounds pretty solid. Dragons and Tornadus also provides decent complementary offense for Keldeo.
  10. shrang

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    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    [qc](2/3)[/qc]
  12. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]

    Assuming that you mention some of the team-mates I mentioned on irc
  13. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Thanks guys.

    [qc] 4/3 [/qc]
  14. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I know this has already been approved, but having used this a fair bit, Surf is by far the move I use the most - I'll only resort to Hydro Pump when I'm a bit desperate.

    So yeah, I'm going to move Surf to the top, followed by Hydro Pump, then Secret Sword and then HP Ice. Please raise any objections now before I start writing.
  15. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    This has actually been written for some time, but I had some computer problems, and by the time I managed to access the writeup it was somewhat out of date to say the least. I had to make a few changes, as now Scarf is now quite rightly recognised as the strongest set, but it should now be ready for GP. If I'm still underselling the set please tell me.

    edit: triple post lol
  16. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Scarf Keldeo strongest Pokemon. And you even mentioned HP Bug in AC...

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 5/3

    I felt this was necessary. Get it on-site asap.
  17. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    amcheck
    here you go (open)
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Secret Sword
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Keldeo might lack the wallbreaking power of its other sets, but instead becomes a powerful revenge killer and late-game sweeper for use on rain teams. At 129, Keldeo has the highest base Special Attack stat of all Water-type Pokemon available in OU; this and its excellent Speed clearly make it the best Pokemon for the job. It's extremely satisfying to see an opponent attempt to revenge kill Keldeo with Jolteon, Tornadus-T, or Genesect only to find that they are outrun and OHKOed by Hydro Pump, or even Surf after Stealth Rock damage. Though running both of these STAB moves together might seem strange, Keldeo really doesn't need to use much else, and doesn't have many other options besidesanyway. Surf is the staple moveof this set, but often the additional power of Hydro Pump will be required to revenge kill a specific threat. Secret Sword is relatively weak, but it will help to deal with troublesome opponents such as Blissey, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, 2HKOing all three. Other than that, Keldeo really has few options besides Hidden Power, an Ice-type version being the best. Hidden Power Ice. Hidden Power Ice is the best to run, as it allows Keldeo to revenge kill threats such as Dragonite, which it will outrunspeed even after two Dragon Dances, ands well as +1 Salamence. In rain it', Hidden Power Ice is not significantly more powerful than a resisted Hydro Pumpeven when 2x super effective, but it will hit targets such as Breloom more accurately, and is more effective against them outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As Keldeo tends to only to spam Water-type attacks, a variety of other optionmoves can be used over its non-Water-type attacks, though none isare frequently useful. Hidden Power Psychic mauls Toxicroak, which would otherwise completely wall Keldeo, while doing a little more to Tentacruel, Breloom and Amoonguss. However, thisrunning it requires the use of a 30 Speed IV, causing you to lose out on a Speed tie with opposing Keldeo and Terrakion. Hidden Power Electric will OHKO all common Gyarados variants after Stealth Rock damage, and will do significantly more (and yet still not nearly enough) damage to Jellicent. Hidden Power Grass will do good damage to Gastrodon, Hidden Power Flying will maim Breloom and Virizion, and Hidden Power Bug might allow you to break through Celebi. If using any of these options, Icy Wind can replace Hidden Power Ice, as it still allows you to revenge kill weakened Dragonite and Salamence. Focus Blast could potentially be used for its good power, but it won’t powerstill won't break through Chansey and Blissey, which was largely the point of Secret Sword in the first place – it’s not a power move, but rather a coverage move. Scald could be used for its spectacular secondary effect, while Toxic could be used to cripple some opposing walls (such as Jellicent).</p>

    <p>As far as support is concerned, Politoed should be the number one teammate; it provides the power that Keldeo really needs, even if it stacks up your team's weaknesses a bit. Otherwise, you teammates should be tryingused to remove Keldeo’s hard counters, of which there are a fair few. Most critical are Celebi, Jellicent, Latias, Toxicroak, Amoonguss, and Tentacruel – these pokemon are not only resistant or immune to Water, but are extremely durable and as such usually require trapping. Choice Specs Gothitelle is probably your best option in this respect, especially variants with Signal Beam, as they can take out Celebi. Alternatively, a number of these Pokemon are weak to Pursuit, and as such Weavile is a rather good partner, if not the strongest Pokemon in ge, although not generally a strong option in OU, is a rather good partneral. If you don’t want to base your team around a Keldeo sweep in this way, other Ice- and Psychic-types can at least force these Pokemon out. Finally, it’s worth supporting Keldeo with Stealth Rock, because it lets Keldeo revenge kill Dragonite, and helps to wear down Water-resistant Pokemon as you hit them with repeated Surfs and Hydro Pumps. If you manage to take down those few very troublesome Pokemon mentioned earlier, not much can handle thiKeldeo's barrage of rain-boosted Water-type attacks.</p>

    c/p (open)
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Secret Sword
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Keldeo might lack the wallbreaking power of its other sets, but instead becomes a powerful revenge killer and late-game sweeper for use on rain teams. At 129, Keldeo has the highest base Special Attack stat of all Water-type Pokemon available in OU; this and its excellent Speed clearly make it the best Pokemon for the job. It's extremely satisfying to see an opponent attempt to revenge kill Keldeo with Jolteon, Tornadus-T, or Genesect only to find that they are outrun and OHKOed by Hydro Pump or even Surf after Stealth Rock damage. Though running both of these STAB moves together might seem strange, Keldeo really doesn't need to use much else, and doesn't have many other options anyway. Surf is the staple of this set, but often the additional power of Hydro Pump will be required to revenge kill a specific threat. Secret Sword is relatively weak, but it will help to deal with troublesome opponents such as Blissey, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, 2HKOing all three. Other than that, Keldeo really has few options besides Hidden Power. Hidden Power Ice is the best to run, as it allows Keldeo to revenge kill threats such as Dragonite, which it will outspeed even after two Dragon Dances, as well as +1 Salamence. In rain, Hidden Power Ice is not significantly more powerful than a resisted Hydro Pump—even when 2x super effective—but it will hit targets such as Breloom more accurately, and is more effective against them outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As Keldeo tends to only spam Water-type attacks, a variety of other moves can be used over its non-Water-type attacks, though none are frequently useful. Hidden Power Psychic mauls Toxicroak, which would otherwise completely wall Keldeo, while doing a little more to Tentacruel, Breloom and Amoonguss. However, running it requires the use of a 30 Speed IV, causing you to lose out on a Speed tie with opposing Keldeo and Terrakion. Hidden Power Electric will OHKO all common Gyarados variants after Stealth Rock damage, and will do significantly more (and yet still not nearly enough) damage to Jellicent. Hidden Power Grass will do good damage to Gastrodon, Hidden Power Flying will maim Breloom and Virizion, and Hidden Power Bug might allow you to break through Celebi. If using any of these options, Icy Wind can replace Hidden Power Ice, as it still allows you to revenge kill weakened Dragonite and Salamence. Focus Blast could potentially be used for its good power, but still won't break through Chansey and Blissey, which was largely the point of Secret Sword in the first place – it’s not a power move, but rather a coverage move. Scald could be used for its spectacular secondary effect, while Toxic could be used to cripple some opposing walls (such as Jellicent).</p>

    <p>As far as support is concerned, Politoed should be the number one teammate; it provides the power that Keldeo really needs, even if it stacks up your team's weaknesses a bit. Other teammates should be used to remove Keldeo’s hard counters, of which there are a fair few. Most critical are Celebi, Jellicent, Latias, Toxicroak, Amoonguss, and Tentacruel – these pokemon are not only resistant or immune to Water, but are extremely durable and as such usually require trapping. Choice Specs Gothitelle is probably your best option in this respect, especially variants with Signal Beam, as they can take out Celebi. Alternatively, a number of these Pokemon are weak to Pursuit, and as such Weavile, although not generally a strong option in OU, is a rather good partner. If you don’t want to base your team around a Keldeo sweep in this way, other Ice- and Psychic-types can at least force these Pokemon out. Finally, it’s worth supporting Keldeo with Stealth Rock, because it lets Keldeo revenge kill Dragonite, and helps to wear down Water-resistant Pokemon as you hit them with repeated Surfs and Hydro Pumps. If you manage to take down those few very troublesome Pokemon, not much can handle Keldeo's barrage of rain-boosted Water-type attacks.</p>
  18. NixHex

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    Woodchuck's check is good. Change all 'such as' to 'like' and 'as such' to 'so' and you're good.

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  19. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'll implement that later today. Thanks.

    As for the like/such as thing, we generally shouldn't be changing things either way. I generally prefer "like" but it does depend somewhat on the context. No need for blanket rules.
  20. Oglemi

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    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Secret Sword
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Keldeo might lack the wallbreaking power of its other sets, but instead becomes a powerful revenge killer and late-game sweeper for use on rain teams. At 129, Keldeo has the highest base Special Attack stat of all Water-type Pokemon available in OU; this and its excellent Speed clearly make it the best Pokemon for the job. It's extremely satisfying to see an opponent attempt to revenge kill Keldeo with Jolteon, Tornadus-T, or Genesect only to find that they are outrun and OHKOed by Hydro Pump or even Surf after Stealth Rock damage. Though running both of these STAB moves together might seem strange, Keldeo really doesn't need to use much else, and doesn't have many other options anyway. Surf is the staple move, but often the additional power of Hydro Pump will be required to revenge kill a specific threat (it'd probably be worth mentioning which specific threat, otherwise you're being really vague here lol). Secret Sword is relatively weak, but it will help to deal with troublesome opponents such as Blissey, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, 2HKOing all three. Other than that, Keldeo has very few options besides Hidden Power. Hidden Power Ice is the best, as it allows Keldeo to revenge kill threats such as Dragonite, which it will outrun even after two Dragon Dances, as well as +1 Salamence. Even when super effective, Hidden Power Ice is still not significantly more powerful than a resisted Hydro Pump in the rain, but it will hit targets such as Breloom more accurately, and is more effective against them outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As Keldeo tends only to spam Water-type attacks, a variety of other moves can be used in place of Hidden Power Ice or Secret Sword, though none are frequently useful. Hidden Power Psychic mauls Toxicroak, which would otherwise completely wall Keldeo, while doing a little more to Tentacruel, Breloom, and Amoonguss. However, using this requires the use of a 30 Speed IV, causing you to lose out on a Speed tie with opposing Keldeo and Terrakion. Hidden Power Electric will OHKO all common Gyarados variants after Stealth Rock damage, and will do significantly more (and yet still not nearly enough) damage to Jellicent. Hidden Power Grass will do good damage to Gastrodon, Hidden Power Flying will maim Breloom and Virizion, and Hidden Power Bug might allow you to break through Celebi. If using any of these options, Icy Wind can replace Hidden Power Ice, as it still allows you to revenge kill weakened Dragonite and Salamence. Focus Blast could potentially be used for its good power, but won't break through Chansey and Blissey, which was largely the point of Secret Sword in the first place—Secret Sword is not a power move, but rather a coverage move. Scald could be used for its spectacular secondary effect, while Toxic could be used to cripple some opposing walls (such as Jellicent).</p>

    <p>As far as support is concerned, Politoed should be the number one teammate; it provides the power that Keldeo really needs, even if it stacks up your team's weaknesses a bit. Other teammates should be used to remove Keldeo's hard counters, of which there are a fair few. Most critical are Celebi, Jellicent, Latias, Toxicroak, Amoonguss, and Tentacruel—these Pokemon are not only resistant or immune to Water, but are extremely durable and as such usually require trapping. Choice Specs Gothitelle is probably your best option in this respect, especially variants with Signal Beam, as they can take out Celebi. Alternatively, a number of these Pokemon are weak to Pursuit, and as such Weavile, although not generally a strong option in OU, is a rather good partner. If you don't want to base your team around a Keldeo sweep in this way, other Ice- and Psychic-types can at least force these Pokemon out. Finally, it's worth supporting Keldeo with Stealth Rock, because it lets Keldeo revenge kill Dragonite, and helps to wear down Water-resistant Pokemon as you hit them with repeated Surfs and Hydro Pumps. If you manage to take down those few very troublesome Pokemon, not much can handle Keldeo's barrage of rain-boosted Water-type attacks.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  21. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Thanks Oglemi.

    Sorry about those apostrophes. Normally have MS word set up not to have them, but after some trouble with my computer I hadn't done it yet. As for the specific threats thing, I did mention three of them a couple of sentences earlier!
  22. PK Gaming

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    Alright, Choice Scarf is a go

    Good work

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