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Keldeo (Expert Belt) [QC: 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Dark Fallen Angel, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Link of previous thread

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo

    [SET]
    name: Expert Belt
    move 1: Secret Sword
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Electric
    item: Expert Belt
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Expert Belt Keldeo is one of the best bluffs in the game! While it can't boast the strengths of Specs, the revenge killing prowress of Scarf, or even the late game sweeping of CM, it can do something none of its other sets can accomplish: luring. Many of its usual counters in Celebi, Tentacruel, Latias, and Latios can be flattened with the aid of its new Expert Belt and its coverage moves. It should be noted that Expert Belt Keldeo can also lure in Pokemon trying to resist one of its STABs or coverage moves (very common if they predict the choice set) such as Dragon Dance Dragonite, Dragon Dance Gyarados, Rock Polish Landorus-I, Rock Polish Landorus-T, Double Dance Landorus-I, opposing Keldeo, Terrakion, LO Lati@s, Nasty Plot Celebi, Growth Venusaur, Swords Dance Scizor, Forretress, Hippowdon, and Politoed. Secret Sword and Hydro Pump are to utilize both of its strong STABs to make use of its 129 base special attack as well as to hit on both sides of the spectrum. It may seem strange to use such a weak move in form of Icy Wind, but it achieves the same KOs as Hidden Power Ice, and lets Keldeo use another Hidden Power. Amoongus is easily 2HKOed by Icy Wind after Stealth Rock damage, but you must still hit it on the switch with Icy Wind, otherwise you are just giving it time to heal or use Spore. The last slot is dedicated to a Hidden Power; the two best choices are Hidden Power Bug and Hidden Power Electric. Hidden Power Bug is the optimal choice to 2HKO Celebi (assuming you hit it with Icy Wind on the switch its as good as dead), as well as having a useful niche of hitting the Lati twins after a speed drop. Although both Lati twins are 2HKOed by the combination of Icy Wind and Hidden Power Bug, it is recommended that you still use Icy Wind, rather than using Hidden Power Bug, to mantain the bluff, as many Latios can be 2HKOed by Icy Wind anyway. If your team does not have problems with the Lati twins and Celebi, Hidden Power Electric is the recommended option to hit bulky Water-types slighty harder than Secret Sword. However, the main draw of using Hidden Power Electric, is that it hits Tentacruel and Gyarados, both which resist Keldeo's STABs and Hidden Power Bug, and take little damage from Icy Wind. In addition, Hidden Power Electric is Keldeo's best option against Jellicent, although only physically defensive versions will come close to be 2HKOed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Psychic is the third best Hidden Power. It allows Keldeo to easily OHKO Toxicorak, a Pokémon which Keldeo generally struggles with. In addition, it still covers Tentacruel, and comes with the bonus of hitting Amoongus, Venusaur, and Breloom slighty harder and accurately than Icy Wind. The main reason why Hidden Power Psychic is not listed alongside the above Hidden Powers, is that Toxicroak is not that dangerous and omnipresent, that Keldeo's teammates can't cover effectively. In addition, Bug and Electric generally tend to be much more useful Hidden Powers; only use Hidden Power Psychic if you really need a way to get rid of Toxicroak. Additionally, one could opt to use Rain Dance over a Hidden Power coverage if they're using a weatherless team. Rain Dance is a useful move to put a stop to sun and sand teams (ruining Stoutland and Venusaur's sweeping, not to mention it can reduce Victini's V-Create and it can cease your opponents sand residual damage). However, Keldeo really appreciates the coverage provided by Hidden Power, so it is usually not recommended to run any move other than Hidden Power on that slot. An alternative item that can be used is Life Orb, which transforms this Keldeo in an all-out attacker. Keldeo really appreciates the extra power against neutral hits, especially considering that its STABs don't offer that great super-effective coverage, and unlike Choice Specs, this set has the advantage of being able to switch moves. However, Life Orb goes against the point of using this set on the first place; to lure and kill its usual counters. In addition, Keldeo absolutely hates Life Orb recoil, especially if it is facing a sandstorm team. Generally, it is better to just use Choice Specs or a Calm Mind set if you do not want to use Expert Belt.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Breloom greatly appreciates the ability to lure and kill Ammonguss, Lati@s, and Celebi, as well as DD Gyarados, LO Agility Thundurus-T. Breloom is quite ideal as it can break down Jellicent, and Gyarados can set up on it. Clear counters are hard to come by but Jellicent will always wall non-Hidden Power Electric variants (and Hidden Power Electric variants need Spikes and SR to 2HKO). Scarf Latias and Scarf Latios are great counters because even with the speed drop they can still outspeed and KO Keldeo. Tornadus-I is a good check so long as it isn't switching into an Icy Wind, and Venusaur can beat all non-Rain Dance Keldeo sets as well underneath its sun support. Mamoswine can get rid of both Tornadus-I and Venusaur, and deal with the Lati twins, but be wary that it will need a bit of residual damage to OHKO all them with Ice Shard. If Keldeo is not using Hidden Power Electric, something that can remove Tentacruel and Gyarados is appreciated. Rotom-W works best, although other Electric-types like Thundurus-T and Jolteon also work. Something that can remove Toxicroak is also a good partner, as Toxicroak walls Keldeo without Hidden Power Psychic, which Keldeo rarely uses because there are better options most of time. Thus, a Psychic- or Ground-type Pokémon like Hippowdon, Celebi, CM Jirachi (with Psyshock), or Landorus are all excellent partners. Each of them can also either deal with another problematic Pokémon for Keldeo, or appreciate the support that Keldeo brings to them by removing their usual checks and counters.</p>
  2. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Hey, DFA. Thanks so much for taking this over.

    However, before this goes through GP, I would like you to go over the written analysis yourself and see if the competitive information and grammar is accurate and acceptable. For example, even with Expert Belt attached, Amoonguss isn't even close to being "flattened" by Icy Wind, which is weak and can only 2HKO, giving the mushroom time to heal up with Giga Drain or just Spore. Being able to lure and comfortably handle threats like Toxicroak and opposing Keldeo is also very inaccurate information.

    Additionally, I'd like you to somehow make the analysis more concise by removing fluff and long lists of Pokemon; the set comments by itself mentions too many Pokemon that it almost doesn't focus on Keldeo anymore.

    Anyhow, please make any changes you yourself feel necessary, and report back when you're done!
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I think my post on the last page of that older thread may assist in getting rid of the "fluff"/incorrect Pokemon. If you want me to post a link I can, but I outlined some of them, since I agree there are too many examples.

    In case you want it its post 72
  4. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    I'm officially proclaiming Swamp-Rocket's advice as good advice.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4576480&postcount=72

    If you would like an alternative solution, you may instead rewrite the set comments in your own style so that it's less fluffy and more concise, seeing as the original writer gave you a little too much to bite on.
  5. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I asked alexwolf and we agreed an ac mention for hp flying would be good; it hits toxicroak, breloom, and opposing keldeo, and 2hkoes celebi after sr + spikes.

    EDIT: also wasn't life orb supposed to be in this set? the slash location must be debated, but it should be in this set iirc
  6. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Life Orb was mentioned on AC. Also, thanks for bringing the post for me. I will re-write the analysis later to make such notes (Latios need Stealth Rock damage to be 2HKOed by Icy Wind, or you must rely on high damage rolls)
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Yeah you copied some info straight from my original. Thanks for taking over as my activity is going to be quite low for now :) However, I'm just going to point out the mistakes I never got to finish >_> (Oh and I never quit, I just said I was going to be gone a while @PK Gaming T_T)

    I put "Dragon Dance Landorus-I" when I meant "Double Dance Landorus-I". Please don't mention "heavy hazard support" since DeoD is no longer in OU and I wouldn't suggest this set ever try to beat Jellicent, its simply not good at doing so. I would mention DubDance ThundyT as a partner, and I would NOT mention TTar. The whole point is to lure counters so why use a Pokemon that's luring counters when you've got TTar anyway? This set is designed so you don't need TTar. Please don't mention it. Mention how even with SR + Spikes, Specially invested Jellicent are not 2HKO'd, only the physiaclly invested one will be.

    I would not mention how using Rain Dance vs. RD is useless since this information is irrelevant since your Hydro Pumps are boosted in opposing Rain so generally you shouldn't give a fuck if it doesn't do anything to rain since you don't mind facing it T_T. Instead, talk about how you can't abuse the Hidden Power coverage since that is what you give up when you use RD. I wouldn't talk about how its useless vs. Weatherless anyway since your not putting RD on for weatherless and its not like by adding RD you become weak to rain or weatherless, as it seems by using rain dance (according to your sentence) that "you should be weary of rain or weatherless" since Rain Dance doesn't null them, but really Keldeo with Rain dance is not weak to either of these playstyles T_T Mixed coverage and not being locked can easily threaten those weatherless while rain doesn't like opposing rain-boosted Hydro Pumps so please delete that and add that one should be weary since they lose the additional coverage x.x.

    In my analysis, it was agreed that LO would be AC'ed on the CM set and NOT this set, since it kills the ENTIRE purpose of the set but ruining the bluff. Please note how while it appreciates the additional power that it hates the recoil, as I've lost many games in testing because of that goddamn recoil damage if you plan on keeping LO (because who listens to Shurtugal anymore?)

    I'm just going to conclude with: I didn't quit T_T. Anyway, my activity is going to be low until after Spring Break anyway so thanks for taking over DFA XD. Sorry if I sound bit mean or w/e above but its only b/c that's how I talk when it comes to debating things so don't take offense. I did feel kinda annoyed when discussing the RD paragraph though so sorry :/

    ~ Shurtugal
  8. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Made the changes, sorry for taking too long; I was too busy.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Someone lock this please.

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