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Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Furai, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    Justified ability
    91 HP / 72 Atk / 90 Def / 129 SpA / 90 SpD / 108 Spe​

    Level-up Moves (open)
    Level 1 - Aqua Jet
    Level 1 - Leer
    Level 7 - Double Kick
    Level 13 - Bubblebeam
    Level 19 - Take Down
    Level 25 - Helping Hand
    Level 31 - Retaliate
    Level 37 - Aqua Tail
    Level 43 - Sacred Sword
    Level 49 - Swords Dance
    Level 55 - Quick Guard
    Level 61 - Work Up
    Level 67 - Hydro Pump
    Level 73 - Close Combat

    TM & HM (open)
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM05 - Roar
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM33 - Reflect
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM48 - Round
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM54 - False Swipe
    TM55 - Scald
    TM67 - Retaliate
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM71 - Stone Edge
    TM75 - Swords Dance
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM81 - X-Scissor
    TM83 - Work Up
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM01 - Cut
    HM03 - Surf
    HM04 - Strength

    Move Tutors (open)
    Secret Sword*, Aqua Tail, Bounce, Covet, Endeavor, Helping Hand, Icy Wind, Last Resort, Sleep Talk, Snore, Superpower
    *Gen 4 only. Rest are Gen 5.

    PONY. It's finally released, and even got a new visual forme! I sure have been waiting for this one to come. It has fantastic STABs, great Special Attack, respectible Speed, and access to two forms of setup in Calm Mind and Swords Dance. It's signature move, Secret Sword, acts exactly like the infamous Psystrike, only being weaker by 15 BP and being a Fighting-type move. With Calm Mind, Secret Sword, and Hydro Pump, it can be quite threatening; 4 HP Kyogre takes 66% minimum from +1 Secret Sword. With Life Orb, it's 87.5% to OHKO after Stealth Rock! Its STABs aren't resisted by a lot of Pokemon in Ubers either. Only Giratina, Tentacruel, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, and the currently rare Lati@s, which are now backed by Soul Dew. That's not much, and Keldeo can easily get past them with the proper Hidden Power!

    But the usage of Keldeo in Ubers is hanging in the balance. While it does have its qualities, Keldeo is held back by its mediocre Speed. It's outsped by common threats such as Arceus and Mewtwo, and it's defenses aren't exactly great. Weakness to Electric-, Grass-, and Psychic-type moves is not doing any favors either. But perhaps the thing I find the most glaring: Keldeo does not have access to Ice Beam! This means Keldeo will have to settle with Hidden Power Ice in order to hit the Dragon-types lurking in the tier.

    So, let's see what can it do for us, Ubers players. What sets can it run effectively? What Pokemon does it beat? Will it have an impact on Ubers? Which role can it fulfill in a team? Is it outclassed by other Pokemon in the tier, or is worth the slot in your team? Happy discussion!
  2. Twins


    Oct 24, 2010
    108 speed is not mediocre at all. In fact, it pretty much outspeeds the entire Uber tier. Sure, Mewtwo and Arceus are rather common, but you wouldn't say that Landorus has mediocre speed in OU because it is outspeed by Terrakion, Gengar, and Latios, would you?

    That being said, Keldeo will do very well in the Ubers tier, since, you know, Kyogre has ~50% usage. Its STAB moves are even more effective in Ubers than in OU (no Jellicent or Lati@s yay), and its is just versatile enough to run viable sets, such as Scarf, Specs, and CM. In the end, though, they all rely on the sheer power of a Rain boosted STAB Hydro Pump.

    I don't think it is outclassed by anything in the tier. 129 base special attack is just enough to compete in ubers, and 108 base speed is great. There really aren't many other choices for Rain sweepers, beside your standard Choice Kyogre and Palkia, so Keldeo will most likely fit right in.

    Usage wise though, I don't see it cracking the top 20, simply because for most teams, Kyogre abuses Rain well enough.
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn a e s t h e t i c
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Mar 17, 2012
    Keldeo is never going to find a niche in Ubers, whether it gets banned from Ou or not. Too many fast and powerful pokes exist in the tier for it to really have any impact, not to mention that Giratina walls it to hell and back.

    Sorry, Keldeo, I still love you.
  4. Twins


    Oct 24, 2010
    Yeah, that's the problem. Keldeo is a good pokemon, even in Ubers, it just doesn't fit in anywhere, except on a dedicated Rain team. And no one runs those. Rain is more of a utility for most Uber teams, not a play style.
  5. Splendiferous


    Jan 7, 2011
    66% from +1 stab move to 4hp kyogre is pretty shit actually. +1 psytrike from mewtwo almost KOs max HP kyogre in comparison.
  6. Bossness


    Aug 18, 2011
    Keldeo in ubers will be overhyped for some time and then will be forgotten. Giratina has no problems phazzing it or calm minding alongside it. Whats it gonna do? Try to KO giratina with 4pp Hydro Pump(Pressure). For a fighting type, its a shame it cant even stop extremekiller arceus.
  7. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    Yup, Soul Dew is out. That's going to be a pain for Keldeo, which is now just walled to infinity and back by the Lati twins. However, in rain, +1 Life Orb Keldeo has a good chance—81.64%, to be exact—to 2HKO +0 252/0 Soul Dew Latias with a rain boosted Hydro Pump! That's actually pretty surprising, if to be honest. Soul Dew Latios, on the other hand, is always 2HKOed by the same Keldeo and conditions. While it may not be as useful, as both the Lati twins outspeed Keldeo and have Roost, I think it's a good demonstration of Keldeo's power in rain after a boost.
  8. -Sun


    Jan 8, 2011
    I think that as a special rain sweeper keldeo has trouble fitting in what with palkia, kyogre (and manaphy) filling the special rain abuser slot better... and as a physical attacker it really doesn't have the offenses (72 attack) to do Anything in Ubers... I mean +6 SD jolly keldeo Needs LO just to 2HKO giratina..... anything else at +6 in Ubers would KO Optimus Prime with tail whip... and it's base 91/90/90 defenses are just not good enough for ubers.
    Don't get me wrong, I absoloutely LOVE keldeo (and I'm a guy so yeah).. but i just don't think it's capable of surviving as a threat in the ubers environment, maybe it could get banned from OU but then it would just be a gimmick for the creative uber pokemon thread
    +6 Adamant LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 53.7%- 63.2% (2HKO at +6?)
    +6 Jolly LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 48.9% - 57.9% (small chance for missing out on 2HKO, at +6)
    without and LO it's only a 2HKO with some hazards.... 37.8% - 44.5%
    so SD Keldeo is out of the question IMO.... special keldeo maybe, physical NO
  9. HybridHerp


    May 5, 2012
    I've used a calm mind set with moderate success

    excuse me if my formatting looks weird, I'm just copying straight off of my PO file

    Keldeo-R @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    I run 192 speed to outrun base 100's (although in hindsight it looks like it is out speeded by jolly garchomp, but that is easily fixable) and HP ghost to take care of things like arceus ghost and the giratina forms. The extra ev's are just placed into HP. I can generally get in a calm mind and do some damage, and I feel like Keldeo works best in ubers after other pokemon have been weakened and it can then setup and cleanup.

    I do have to wonder though if arceus water does not outclass this? Not only is arceus faster, it is bulkier and has access to moves like shadow ball and ice beam.

    Keldeo does have a higher special attack however, and does get stab secret sword which is a very nice thing to have. I don't use my Keldeo on a team with rain support but it does get the job done I suppose.

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