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Pokémon Keldeo
- Thread starter garchomp11111
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I suppose that does make sense when we consider the types alone. In practice it's not as bad since the grass part that lacks in Psychic is covered by Icy wind and the Dark immunity by Secret Sword. For bug I couldn't find an OU relevant Bug type to nail with Flying that wasn't being hit hard by our little pony's other attacks.
I think I've been slightly biased towards H.P. Psychic however merely because the team I've been laddering with had more synergy with Psychic. But overall the choice of Flying is slightly better in general, unless you want to deal with some Poison types specifically, then Psychic does shine in that regard.
In the end though, I think we've shown how different the usage of Hidden Powers has been now in comparison to the staple Hidden Power Ghost of 5th Gen.
Aaron's Aron
A concussion update in my info tab
This will probably sound like a stupid question so I am sorry. But I have been wondering for awhile now, what is this Keldeo + Landorus core I keep hearing about?
I believe that was a core from 5th gen. The Keldeo-Lando-Ttar core which the main objective was for T-tar and Keldeo to support Lando so that it could sweep. T-tar was for a checking and pursuit trapping and Keldeo with H.P. Bug was for taking care of Celebi or using the specs set for nuking before Lando starts setting up.
It's a bit more detailed on Lando-I's OU spotlight from 5th gen:
https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue28/ou_spotlight_landorus
It's a bit more detailed on Lando-I's OU spotlight from 5th gen:
https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue28/ou_spotlight_landorus
How has Keldeo made it all the way down to RU? I know its been bullied away from the top 10 this gen, but its not *that* unplayable, is it?
Keldeo is OU...
Whoops. The data in the RU beta thread said it had usage. I guess it was left over from when it was still UU. My mistake, then. Good. Good... That seriously screwed with my head.
You can't really slash HP Ice without slashing something to replace HP Ghost with, since you can't have both.
Or, you could just do the sane thing and run Scald instead of HP Ghost, so that you have relevant coverage, perfect accuracy, utility.
Icy Wind is completely superior to HP ice, as it let's you beat Latios and other frail, faster threats. Not dealing with a hidden power also allows you to run 0 Atk IVs without incident, proving useful for Foul Play switch ins.
Ahhhh, IVs don't matter for HP base power in XY anyway. It's 60BP no matter what. Running Scald AND Hydro Pump on a Specs set doesn't make much sense either. Specs sets need to be focused around coverage. You can only afford double up if your main STABs already have perfect coverage, or if one move is name Volt Turn or U-Turn.
HP Ghost is absolutely worthless for me in Showdown now. I'm not certain why people are using Scald with Specs since Hydro Pump is my go-to move to dent anything and if I keep Scald then I lose the coverage that HP Flying/Electric provides.
Also, Icy Wind>HP Ice as of this gen. The power drop is negligible and the speed drop through Icy Wind is very helpful on the switch.
Also, Icy Wind>HP Ice as of this gen. The power drop is negligible and the speed drop through Icy Wind is very helpful on the switch.
Scald is good because the burn chance means that you just spam it pretty safely early game. It threatens the (likely water-weak) Pokemon you are forcing out, and cripples Latios / Latias / Venusaur switch-ins and destroys Azumarill / Dragonite switch-ins.
So yeah it can break your counters early game without having to actually predict them coming in.
So yeah it can break your counters early game without having to actually predict them coming in.
Scald is by far the most used move on the set, it's just so spammable, sure later on you will probably use Secret Sword and Hydro Pump to clean but in the early game nothing beats spamming Scald in most cases as it's by far the best at wearing down your usual checks and also discourages things like Azumarill and Gyarados to come in and set up on you.
Question: would it be better to run Life Orb on the CM set? I ran some calcs against some common threats:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 187-221 (61.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 712-842 (101.1 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 190-226 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
whereas
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 548-648 (77.8 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 160-190 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
(caveat: with horn leech the calcs for 2HKO's are pointless)
And many others similarly, where its just missing out on the kill. Leftovers enhances longeveity, but it can be argued that if Keldeo isn't matching up favourably it will switch rather than stay on.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 187-221 (61.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 712-842 (101.1 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 190-226 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
whereas
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 548-648 (77.8 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 160-190 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
(caveat: with horn leech the calcs for 2HKO's are pointless)
And many others similarly, where its just missing out on the kill. Leftovers enhances longeveity, but it can be argued that if Keldeo isn't matching up favourably it will switch rather than stay on.
I feel the CM set isn't that great, setting up while it's counters are still alive is also not smart as the Latis (who are it's main counters) can easily kill it with Psyshock anyway and it can't really run Scald (it could but it would lose Hydro Pump) making it rather useless early on as it won't hit nearly as hard as Specs Keldeo, even with a LO.
CM is more for lategame whereas Keldeo is actually great early game with Specs + Scald.
Also HP Ghost is useless, HP Flying should always be used over it this gen, not only has Jellicent dropped down to UU due to the rain nerfs mostly but HP got nerfed in general, Mega Venusaur is also a much more relevant threat than Jellicent/Trevenant/Gourgeist the latter two of which are hit SE by Icy Wind anyway making it even less attractive of an option.
I agree about the HP Ghost part. I just used it to show that even the weaker Icy Wind does the job better on the CM set. I prefer to run HP Flying or Electric myself.
On the Choice Specs set why is HP Ice listed as a slash next to Icy Wind when you can only have 1 hidden power type. What would you run over HP Ghost.
I'd run HP Flying over HP Ghost every day honestly, Jellicent is RU this gen, and other trivial mons hit by HP Ghost such as Celebi or Gourgeist-XL are hit SE by HP Flying anyway, while you are hitting much more relevant targets such as Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur in particular, and Chesnaught. You are right about HP Ice though, it's pointless considering it's only 5 base power more than Icy Wind and lacks the speed drop effect that really helps you against Lati@s.
1: a lot of the things HP Flying hits are also hit with Icy Wind and 2: The point was you CAN'T have 2 hidden powers at once. I would recommend Hidden Power Grass as it's Keldeo's best tool against Azumarill and hits Rotom-Wash when you're choice-locked into it.
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I really don't understand why HP ghost / electric was even mentioned for keldeo this generation, as jellicent has become almost completely irrelevant due to knock off spam. Although it may seem like a bad hidden power, HP flying is probably best on keldeo in this mega as mega venusaur would hard counter it otherwise.
I've ran different kinds of HPs on my Keldeo. I found Dark HP (HP Ghost would work the same) to be decent enough as it fucks up any Psychic switching in into Sacred Sword, and very effective against Slowking/Slowbro who don't mind switching into Keldeo.
But I agree that HP flying is one of the best HPs Keldeo can have, as otherwise Mega Venu would wall it. Personally I ran HP Fire which hits Scizor pretty badly because in the team I have Keldeo I don't have Fire coverage. (Other than hitting Scizor HP Fire is useless as Secret Sword/Hydro Bump hits Ferrothorn and Aegislash better).
Forgot about Mega Venusaur. Its still no more than a mere 59% chance to 2HKO and thats it. I'd still opt for HP Grass as an alternative to hit Azumarill.
HP electric is better than HP grass as it also hits gyarados.
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