Keldeo

#1
Credit to Labyrinthine for original skeleton

QC Approvals 3/3: alexwolf, Fuzznip, Colonel M
GP Approvals 2/2: GatoDelFuego, Electrolyte

Overview
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The superstar of BW, Keldeo returns to OU in XY to continue to wreak havoc upon the tier. It has a great offensive and defensive typing, giving it multiple opportunities to switch in allowing it to hit a majority of the tier for neutral damage. Keldeo's signature move, Secret Sword, allows it to bypass many special walls such as Chansey, giving it a major niche over other special attackers such as Mega Charizard Y. Combined with its excellent base 129 Special Attack and base 108 Speed, this makes Keldeo a powerful sweeper and revenge killer capable of devastating unprepared teams.

Unfortunately, the transition to XY was not very kind to Keldeo. The changed mechanics of Drizzle mean that Keldeo can no longer take advantage of rain as well as it could in the past generation, and the introduction of new threats such as Fairy-types, which resist Secret Sword, and Talonflame, which can easily revenge kill Keldeo, make Keldeo's life much more miserable than it was in the past. To make matters worse, Keldeo also faces a large amount of competition with Greninja for a teamslot, as Greninja has greater Speed, a much better ability, and a better movepool. Despite these shortcomings, Keldeo remains an excellent Pokemon in OU and is a great option on any offensive team.

All-Out Attacker
########
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Scald
move 4: Icy Wind / Hidden Power Flying
item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
Keldeo's excellent Speed, power, and coverage make it one of the premier wallbreakers of OU. Hydro Pump is Keldeo's main STAB move due to its high Base Power and excellent neutral coverage. Secret Sword is Keldeo's secondary STAB attack, as it is not only more reliable than Hydro Pump but also hits common specially defensive walls with lower Defense stats such as Chansey and has excellent coverage with Hydro Pump. Scald is used as a more reliable Water-type STAB attack. Its 30% burn chance is able to cripple many of Keldeo's common checks, such as Mega Venusaur, Azumarill, and Latias, making it an excellent option. Icy Wind is generally the best coverage move in the third slot, as it hits Grass- and Dragon-types such as Roserade and Latias for super effective damage while also lowering the opponent's Speed. Hidden Power Flying is used primarily to 2HKO Keldeo's best check, Mega Venusaur, after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes.

Set Details
========
A Timid nature is used to allow Keldeo to outspeed important threats such as Garchomp, Landorus, and Kyurem-B. Choice Specs is the recommended item, as it allows Keldeo to hit as hard as possible. If you prefer that Keldeo has the freedom of switching moves, then Life Orb can be used, but do note that Keldeo loses a lot of power without the Choice Specs and will be crippled by the Life Orb recoil. An Expert Belt can be used over both items, as it allows Keldeo to feign a Choice item. However, Expert Belt makes Keldeo significantly weaker than it would be if it is using a Choice Specs or Life Orb, making it the inferior item choice in most scenarios.

Usage Tips
========
Keldeo's high Speed and powerful STAB attacks make it perfect for mid- to late-game, as it can easily sweep the foe's team once its checks and counters are weakened. Keldeo still works very well early-game as well, as it can use its excellent coverage to enable another Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar and Scizor to sweep later in the game. Keldeo's excellent typing and decent bulk also make it an great switch-in to Rock-, Fire-, and Steel-types, as it can OHKO a majority of these type of Pokemon with its powerful STAB attacks.

The choice between using Hydro Pump and Scald depends on the current scenario. If Keldeo's counters such as Mega Venusaur and Azumarill are still intact, it is generally best to use Scald, as its 30% burn chance can cripple many of these Pokemon. If all of Keldeo's counters are either heavily weakened or eliminated, it is generally the best to use Hydro Pump, as its higher Base Power allows Keldeo to OHKO Pokemon that it could otherwise not take down with Scald, such as specially defensive Heatran, Scizor, and Mega Mawile after Stealth Rock damage. Hydro Pump is also the better move to use if the Pokemon Keldeo is up against can only be OHKOed by Hydro Pump and not Scald.

If the opponent has has Latios or Latias, it is generally a good idea to switch to a Pursuit user when Keldeo is active, as both of these Pokemon are common switch-ins to Keldeo. Keldeo should also be very cautious of what move it is using if it has Choice Specs, as various Pokemon may switch into a resisted attack and force Keldeo out.

Team Options
========
Keldeo appreciates entry hazard support to weaken its checks and counters. Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are excellent partners for this role. Pursuit support from Aegislash, Bisharp and Tyranitar is recommended, as Keldeo appreciates the removal of Pokemon such as Latios and Latias from the match. Heatran is able to check a majority of Keldeo's common checks and counters, including Mega Venusaur, Latios, Talonflame, and Trevenant. Electric-types such as Rotom-W, Mega Manetric, and Thundurus are also good partners, as they are able to defeat Water-types such as Slowbro, Tentacruel, and Jellicent while also being able to provide momentum to switch Keldeo in safely with Volt Switch. Scizor is also able to provide momentum with U-Turn while also defeating common Fairy- and Dragon-type Pokemon that are able to check Keldeo. Rain support from Politoed or a manual rain setter such as Thundurus is also appreciated, as it increases the power of Keldeo's Water-type STAB attacks, making it much more difficult to defeat.

Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Hidden Power Flying
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
With Calm Mind, Keldeo uses its fairly unique typing, high power, and good natural bulk to set up and sweep the opposing team. Hydro Pump is Keldeo's recommended Water-type STAB move due to its high Base Power, allowing Keldeo to OHKO offensive Aegislash after one round of Life Orb recoil. Despite Hydro Pump's excellent Base Power, Scald can be used in its place as a more reliable STAB attack, as the Special Attack boost makes up for Scald's lower Base Power. It also has a 30% burn chance, which is able to cripple many of Keldeo's counters such as Latias, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur, as well as increase the amount of Keldeo's setup opportunities. Secret Sword is Keldeo's secondary STAB move, receiving great coverage with Keldeo's Water-type STAB attacks and hitting special walls such as Chansey for super effective damage. Hidden Power Flying hits many of Keldeo's common checks, such as Trevenent, Mega Venusaur, and Chesnaught, for super effective damage and receives perfect neutral coverage with Secret Sword and Keldeo's Water-type STAB attack. Icy Wind is an alternate coverage move that Keldeo can utilize to defeat various threats such as Dragonite and Salamence.

Set Details
========
Leftovers is the preferred item choice to increase Keldeo's longevity, making it easier for Keldeo to set up multiple Calm Minds. Life Orb can be used to give Keldeo a much greater damage output and allow it to function as a mid-game wallbreaker. Alternative items Keldeo can use include Lum Berry and Coba Berry. Lum Berry can be used if you prefer that Keldeo avoids taking damage from status moves, while a Coba Berry allows Keldeo to take moves such as Talonflame's Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack much better, but in general, both of these items are inferior to Life Orb and Leftovers.

Usage Tips
========
Keldeo is best used late-game once its checks and counters are removed, as it can set up Calm Mind with little to no trouble and sweep the foe's team. Keldeo can still be used as a mid-game wallbreaker if it is using a Life Orb and sweep later in the match. If the opponent has a faster check to Keldeo such as Latias or Talonflame, Keldeo should generally postpone setting up Calm Mind and either attack with its powerful STAB attacks or switch out into a Pokemon that can defeat its checks.

The primary obstacles in Keldeo's sweep are Latios, Latias, Talonflame, and Mega Pinsir, so it should be your number one priority to remove these threats. Having a Pursuit user such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Scizor can keep Latios and Latias in check, while having Stealth Rock down on the field can put both Talonflame and Mega Pinsir in a bad position.

Keldeo's excellent typing also allows it to set up Calm Mind against Dark-, Steel-, and Rock-types such as Bisharp, Scizor, and Tyranitar. Setting up one to two times is generally enough for Keldeo to sweep.

Team Options
========
Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are great partners for Keldeo, as the entry hazards they provide weaken a majority of Keldeo's counters. Scizor is also a great partner, as it is able to provide momentum with U-turn while also being able to defeat a large majority of Keldeo's checks and counters. Electric-types such as Rotom-W and Thundurus are also able to provide momentum for Keldeo with Volt Switch while also checking Water- and Flying-types that generally give Keldeo trouble. Heatran is a great partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock while also defeating a large majority of Keldeo's checks, including Latias, Sylveon, and Mega Venusaur. Aegislash, Bisharp, and Tyranitar are also great partners, as all three of them are able to Pursuit trap a large majority of Keldeo's counters, making it easier for Keldeo to sweep. Keldeo also appreciates rain support from Politoed or a manual Rain Dance user such as Thundurus, as it boosts the power of Keldeo's Water-type STAB moves, making it generally easier for Keldeo to sweep.

Other Options
########
Keldeo's poor movepool leaves it with very few alternative options. A Choice Scarf set can be used, allowing Keldeo to revenge kill miscellaneous threats such as Terrakion and Deoxys-S, but its effectiveness has diminished in the transition to XY due to its mediocre damage output, poor coverage, and vulnerability to threats such as Talonflame. Keldeo can also run a Substitute + Calm Mind set fairly effectively, utilizing Substitute to block priority moves such as Talonflame's Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack as well as status moves such as Toxic. Similarly to the Choice Scarf set however, this set has also lowered in effectiveness due to the rise in usage of threats that resist Keldeo's STAB attacks, such as Dragonite, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur, its inability to break Pokemon such as Unaware Clefable, and the lack of permanent rain. Taunt is a viable move that Keldeo can run, allowing it to prevent moves such as Defog and Thunder Wave, although Keldeo loses to a majority of the Pokemon utilizing these moves anyway. Rain Dance is a viable move Keldeo can use to boost the power of its Water-type STAB attacks, but Keldeo rarely has room to run it. Substitute can be used to take advantage of the switches Keldeo forces. Other Hidden Power types can also be to hit niche targets, such as using Hidden Power Grass for Gastrodon or Hidden Power Psychic for Tentacruel.

Keldeo can also use an alternative moveset with the moves Substitute / Endeavor / Toxic / Scald to lure its common counters, most notably Mega Venusaur. However, such a set is very gimmicky and is not recommended to be used.

Checks & Counters
########
**Grass-types**: Mega Venusaur is Keldeo's best counter, as apart from Hidden Power Flying, Keldeo cannot significantly damage Mega Venusaur, while Mega Venusaur can recover all of its health lost with Synthesis and 2HKO Keldeo with Giga Drain.

**Water-types**: Slowbro and Slowking are good counters, as apart from a super effective Hidden Power or a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump, they fear little to nothing from Keldeo and can either cripple it with Thunder Wave or hit it hard with a super effective Psyshock. Azumarill is able to switch into Keldeo's STAB attacks and either OHKO it with Play Rough or set up a Belly Drum as Keldeo switches out.

**Fairy-types**: Azumarill resists both of Keldeo's STAB attacks and can OHKO it with Play Rough. Specially defensive Clefable is a great check to Calm Mind Keldeo, as it ignores Calm Mind boost due to Unaware and can 2HKO Keldeo with Moonblast. However, specially defensive Clefable has a high chance of being 2HKOed by a Life Orb-boosted Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock, making it a very situational check.

**Dragon-types**: Latios, Latias, and Noivern resist Keldeo's STAB attacks and are able to outspeed and OHKO with their respective super effective STAB attacks. Noivern can only switch into Keldeo once, however, as a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump deals a large amount of damage to it. Dragonite resists both of Keldeo's STAB attacks and can either OHKO Keldeo with a Choice Band-boosted Outrage or set up Dragon Dance. However, all of these Pokemon take massive damage from Icy Wind.

**Revenge Killers**: Talonflame is able to easily revenge kill Keldeo with its priority Brave Bird. However, Talonflame is unable to switch into Keldeo's Water-type STAB moves and will lose to Keldeo if it has a Substitute up. Mega Pinsir is in a similar situation as Talonflame, except it requires Keldeo to have taken some prior damage before its Quick Attack is able to KO it. Deoxys-S, Alakazam, and Thundurus are able to switch into Keldeo's Fighting-type STAB attacks and OHKO it with their respective STAB attacks. However, all of these Pokemon are OHKOed by Keldeo's Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock.

Overview
########
  • Rain no longer being permanent and the introduction of new Pokemon (e.g. Greninja) have given it more competition. Fairies were also introduced.
  • Decent bulk and typing are what set it apart from the likes of Greninja.
  • Talonflame also makes its life harder, OHKOing Keldeo before it has the chance to do anything
  • A very shallow movepool which creates a reliance on Hidden Power or weak moves for coverage.
  • Great base 129 Special Attacker and good base 108 Speed.
  • Multiple options (Specs / Scarf / CM) to use with Keldeo.
  • Its signature move, Secret Sword, allows it to bypass special walls. This is something it also has over other special attackers.

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Hidden Power Flying / Scald
move 4: Icy Wind
item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is the main STAB option and Keldeo's most powerful attack.
  • Secret Sword, which also allows it to bypass specially bulky Pokemon, is a reliable secondary STAB option.
  • Hidden Power Flying provides neutral coverage and beats its otherwise best check: Mega Venusaur. It also lets Keldeo hit Gourgeist, Trevenant, and Celebi.
  • Scald can be used as it is still relatively powerful, while also having a large chance to burn, which can cripple a large majority of Keldeo's common switch-ins
  • Icy Wind slows down opponents such as Latios, Starmie, and Latias on the switch and only has 5 less BP than Hidden Power Ice. It hits Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively.

Set Details
========
  • Choice Specs are for maximum damage, but Life Orb is optional if you want Keldeo to be able to switch moves.
  • Timid nature to make use of its pretty good Speed tier and be as fast as possible.
  • Expert Belt to feign a Choice item and be able to switch moves
  • Scald> H Pump

Usage Tips
========
  • Keldeo is best used mid- to late-game, as its powerful special attacks can 2HKO/OHKO a majority of the metagame after some prior damage. Its high speed also helps it clean up the foe's team
  • Still works very well early-game, as its high-powered STAB attacks can weaken the foe's team, making it easier for pokemon such a Swords Dance Scizor to sweep
  • Great switch in to most Rock-, Fire-, and Steel-types thanks to its decent bulk and defensive typing. It can threaten many of these Pokemon with a STAB Hydro Pump and Secret Sword

Team Options
========
  • Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D are great partners, as the hazard support they provide weakens many of Keldeo's checks, making it much easier for Keldeo to wallbreak / sweep
  • Politoed is another great partner, as it can provide Keldeo with Rain support, making its Hydro Pump much stronger
  • If Politoed is not being used as a partner, then Heatran become a viable partner, as it checks many Pokemon that threaten Keldeo, Such as Trevenent, Talonflame, Goodra, and Mega Venusaur
  • Electric-types such as Rotom-W and Thundurus make great partners for Keldeo as well, as they are able to check bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Jellicent, while also providing momentum to Keldeo with Volt Switch
  • Scizor and Genesect can also provide Keldeo with momentum in the form of U-Turn, while also checking Fairy- and Dragon-types such as Sylveon and Latias fairly well
  • Aegislash and Tyranitar are also good partners, as both can defeat a large majority of Keldeo's common counters such as Latios and Celebi
Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Icy Wind
move 4: Surf / Hidden Power Electric
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is Keldeo's main STAB move due to its high base power, allowing Keldeo to 2HKO relatively bulky Pokemon such as Wallbreaker Aegislash after SR
  • Secret Sword is Keldeo's secondary STAB move, hitting special walls such as Blissey, Umbreon, and Chansey for super effective damage.
  • Despite its very underwhelming base power, Icy Wind is used to revenge kill Pokemon such as Zygarde, Garchomp, Noivern, Dragonite, and Salamence
  • Surf is used as Keldeo's alternate Water-type STAB move. Its greater accuracy allows Keldeo to reliably revenge kill Pokemon such as Terrakion, Deoxys-S and Mega Charizard X
  • Hidden Power Electric can be used to hit Water-types such as Gyarados and Azumarill for super effective damage

Set Details
========
  • Outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame with a Choice Scarf
  • Modest nature can be used to increase Keldeo's power greatly, allowing it to function better as a Sweeper. However, Keldeo is then unable to outspeed Deoxys-S, as well as opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon with with base 95 speed or higher
  • Scald can be used over Surf, although Keldeo missed out on OHKOing Terrakion, as well as a 2HKO against Mega Scizor after Stealth Rock, and Specially Defensive Heatran

Usage Tips
========
  • Choice Scarf keldeo's incredible Speed and decent power makes it incredibly useful makes it useful in any stage of the game as both a revenge killer and a late game cleaner
  • Decent offensive and defensive typing allows Keldeo to check common boosting sweepers such as Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, (Mega)Gyarados, and Mega Lucario
  • Also makes a great check to Genesect, as Keldeo resist nearly every move in Genesect's arsenal bar Thunderbolt while also outspeeding and 2HKOing unboosted Genesect with Hydro Pump
  • Be wary of Talonflame, which can OHKO Keldeo with its priority Brave Bird before Keldeo has a chance to do anything
Team Options
========
  • Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D are once again great partner, as the hazards they provide makes it easier for Keldeo to defeat its counters
  • Scizor and Genesect are also great partners, as they able to provide momentum to Keldeo with U-Turn, while also defeating most Fairy- and Dragon-types
  • Electric-types such as Thundurus-I and Rotom-W can also provide momentum to Keldeo with Volt Switch, while also keeping Flying- and Water-types in check with their Electric-type STAB
  • Heatean is a great partner, as it can check Grass-, Fairy-, Flying-, and Dragon-types that give Keldeo trouble
  • Politoed is another good partner, as the rain it provides increases the power of Keldeo's Hydro Pump and Surf, allowing to sweep more efficiently
  • Aegislash and Tyranitar are also good partners, as both can defeat a large majority of Keldeo's common counters such as Latios and Celebi
Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Icy Wind
item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
  • Calm Mind boost Keldeo's Special Attack and Special defense to extraordinary levels, possibly allowing it to sweep late-game
  • Hydro Pump is Keldeo's recommended Water-type STAB move due to its high base power
  • Scald can be used over Hydro Pump, as the Special Attack boost from Calm Mind makes up for its lower base power, while its greater accuracy and burn chance can be of use in many situations
  • Secret Sword is Keldeo's secondary STAB move, hitting bulkier special walls such as Blissey for super effective damage
  • Hidden power Ghost hits pokemon such as Slowbro, Trevenent, and Celebi for super effective damage
  • Icy Wind, on the other hand, hits Dragon- and Grass-types such as Latios, Dragonite, and Whimsicott for super effective damage, while also lowering their speed
Set Details
========
  • Because this set takes a more offensive approach in utilizing Calm Mind, the Life Orb is the best item for Keldeo to increase its power
  • Lum Berry can also be used to cure Keldeo from status, increasing is longevity and allowing it to accumulate a greater amount of boost.
  • Leftovers can be used to increase Keldeo's longevity
  • Different Hidden Power type can be used to hit certain threat harder. Hidden Power Electric for instance, hits Azumarill for super effective damage.

Usage Tips
========
  • Keldeo is best used late-game once its checks and counters are eliminated or heavily weakened so it can setup and sweep with Calm Mind
  • Can setup on Dark-, Steel-, and Rock-types such as Scizor and Tyranitar
  • Be sure to eliminate Pokemon that can revenge kill Keldeo before trying to sweep

Team Options
========
  • Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D are once again great partner, as the hazards they provide makes it easier for Keldeo to defeat its counters
  • Scizor and Genesect are also great partners, as they able to provide momentum to Keldeo with U-Turn, while also defeating most Fairy- and Dragon-types
  • Electric-types such as Thundurus-I and Rotom-W can also provide momentum to Keldeo with Volt Switch, while also keeping Flying- and Water-types in check with their Electric-type STAB
  • Heatean is a great partner, as it can check Grass-, Fairy-, Flying-, and Dragon-types that give Keldeo trouble
  • Politoed is another good partner, as the rain it provides increases the power of Keldeo's Hydro Pump and Scald, allowing to sweep more efficiently
  • Aegislash and Tyranitar are also good partners, as both can defeat a large majority of Keldeo's common counters such as Latios and Celebi

Other Options
########
  • Keldeo can utilize a SubCM a la CroCune to boost while avoiding status. (w/ lefties + scald, secret sword)
  • Taunt can be used on Keldeo's offensive sets to stop opponents from setting up or crippling Keldeo, while also stopping moves such as Thunder Wave and Defog
  • Rain Dance is also an option on offensive sets to boost the power of Keldeo's main STAB and change the weather.
  • Keldeo can make use of Substitute to take advantage of the switches that it forces.
  • Keldeo can use other Hidden Power-types to hit niche targets (HP Grass for Gastrodon, HP Psychic for Tentacreul, etc.)

Checks & Counters
########

**Specially bulky walls**
  • Mega Venusaur
  • Slowbro
  • Slowking
  • Jellicent
  • Defensive Sylveon
  • Gyarados
  • Tentacruel
  • Trevenant, although can't take multiple Icy Winds
  • Latias
  • Celebi
  • Specially Defensive Deoxys-D
**Offensive Typing Advantage**
  • Talonflame
  • Azumarill
  • Deoxys-S
  • Alakazam
  • Thundurus-I
  • Latios
  • Starmie
  • Choice Scarf Rotom-W
  • Mega Manetric
  • Noivern
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jaiho

bandy legged troll
#3
imo, any mention of surf should be turned into scald, since it is only 10 BP less, and has the neat chance to burn.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a member of the Site Staffis a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#4
imo, any mention of surf should be turned into scald, since it is only 10 BP less, and has the neat chance to burn.
I'm not entirely sure so don't quote me on this if I'm incorrect, but I'm pretty sure there are some significant OHKOs and 2HKOs that Surf achieves on the Scarf set, but on the Specs set, I'd probably put Scald as the primary option in the moveset options. Unless of course there are significant damage calculations, the extra 10% damage from Surf is usually not entirely worth it on the wall breaking sets because the chance to burn its common switch-ins such as Latias, Gyarados, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur is really nice. It's better than just predicting the switch in most cases, because once they're burned it becomes harder and harder for them to continually switch into Keldeo, or anything else on your team for that matter.

Now that I come to think of it, I honestly think Scald should just be slashed after Icy Wind on the Specs set. It's really only for hitting the Lati twins on the switch, because other than that, Garchomp takes a shit ton of damage from Hydro Pump while Dragonite has to be very wary of switching into Scald. Salamence isn't too notable anymore so it's not really worth mentioning anyway. Icy Wind is still the superior option overall because of the coverage, but Scald is really nice for a reliable Water-type STAB to spam when Hydro Miss isn't necessary. I've used Specs Keldeo a LOT, and Scald was used very often while Icy Wind was usually situational.

Lastly, remove all mentions of Zygarde and replace it with Garchomp.
 
Last edited:

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
#6
yeah azumarill is one of the best reasons to run HP electric on any of the sets, it's a really popular pokemon too.
 

ryan

if you wish you were me right now, it's natural
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#8
Any reason why Choice Scarf is before Calm Mind? Scarf Keldeo is pretty bad in this metagame because its STABs are really exploitable by stuff like Ghost-types, bulky Water- and Grass-types, the occasionally Fairy-type, etc. It doesn't even have permanent rain to compensate for its lack of offensive boost anymore.

Scald is probably better everywhere barring the Choice Scarf set as well, and even then, I'd make a note of the extra 2HKOs that Surf gets to let readers know why they should run Surf instead. The extra chip damage it can get almost always more than makes up for the power drop, and it deters otherwise checks from switching in and in some cases setting up on Keldeo.
 
#9
Okay, sorry for getting to this so late.

Add Tyranitar and Aegislash as a teammates for their ability to deal with Lati twins as well as several of Keldeo's check and counters.

I would slash Lum Berry after Life orb. Being able to cure itself of status while setting up is really nice and should be mentioned.

Azumarill needs to be mentioned as a check and counter.

Make the changes mentioned by others and you should be good to go.
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
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#10
On the first set, both HP Grass and HP Psychic are shitty options that belong to OO at best. Sacred Sword already takes care of Rotom-W, so i don't see any other use for HP Grass except Gastrodon, which is rare and already has a 25% chance to be 2HKOed by Specs Sacred Sword after SR.

Choice Scarf said:
Decent offensive and defensive typing allows Keldeo to check common boosting sweepers such as Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Lucario
Add (Mega)Gyarados as a sweeper that Choice Scarf Keldeo can revenge kill (needs HP Electric for regular Gyarados).

I don't have any experience with the CM set this gen, so i won't comment about it for now, but this looks solid in general:




QC APPROVED 1/3
 
#12
Icy Wind slows down opponents on the switch and only has 5 less BP than Hidden Power Ice. It hits Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively.
Such as?

Icy Wind, on the other hand, hits Dragon- and Grass-types such as Latios, Dragonite, and Chesnaught for super effective damage, while also lowering their speed
I think Chesnaught takes more damage from Secret Sword or about the same, so I'd remove it.

Different Hidden Power type can be used to hit certain threat harder
May as well point those out.

Can setup on Dark-, Steel-, and Rock-types
Such as?

Keldeo can use other Hidden Power-types to hit niche targets
Again, what are they (are there even other usable types that haven't been mentioned yet)?


This is pretty good, nice job.


QC 2/3
 
#14
Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Substitute
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

make this the cm set. first, lo puts a huge damper on longevity. lum isn't that compelling. lefties provides good residual recovery to help set up and so keld has some longevity, so it should be slashed. hp flying is important for mega venu, a huge keld counter. jelli is non-existent and icy wind is just weak and ehh overall. sub is cool because it protects from talon and rks, meaning offensive teams need 2 sacs to beat it if they even can. i think hp ghost and icy wind should be given 'moves' mentions, but no more.

oo sub endeavor (specifically w/ toxic and scald) which can weaken things like venu and other walls so teammates can plow right through.
 

BKC

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Past Gens Champion
#15
you could also use the flying resist berry on the cm set instead of lo / lefties. probably more useful than either of those against offensive teams with talonflame / pinsir (the latter of which is just gonna get more even common with the mega luc ban).
 
#16
Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Substitute
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

make this the cm set. first, lo puts a huge damper on longevity. lum isn't that compelling. lefties provides good residual recovery to help set up and so keld has some longevity, so it should be slashed. hp flying is important for mega venu, a huge keld counter. jelli is non-existent and icy wind is just weak and ehh overall. sub is cool because it protects from talon and rks, meaning offensive teams need 2 sacs to beat it if they even can. i think hp ghost and icy wind should be given 'moves' mentions, but no more.

oo sub endeavor (specifically w/ toxic and scald) which can weaken things like venu and other walls so teammates can plow right through.
Done.
you could also use the flying resist berry on the cm set instead of lo / lefties. probably more useful than either of those against offensive teams with talonflame / pinsir (the latter of which is just gonna get more even common with the mega luc ban).
Added that to the set details.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
#20
Mystic water is a considerable option on Calm mind the LO recoil prevents Keldeo from being the excellent Bisharp check it is and its a lot stronger than lefties

also I think CM is way better than Specs does anyone agree?
 

Hootie

is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
C&C & NU Leader
#21
Take SubCM out of OO it's already a main set. I also agree with Ash that Calm Mind should be the first set considering it's the set I'm most afraid of when team building. After a few boosts the only things that break it are faster Psyshock users such as Lati@s and Alakazam.
 

dragonuser

The only thing I look up to is the sky
is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion
#22
Do you have any logs of SubCM actually working in this metagame? I mean it seems to have so many natural checks and hard counters in the metagame making it seem almost infinitely worse than CM + 3 attacks keldeo (which can use coverage to at least slightly alleviate this issue). Unless you have some logs of it actually working (and working better than CM + 3 attacks), I'm inclined to say that we should get rid of it.

I'd also support implementation of a Choice Scarf Keldeo set, its a fantastic revenger in the metagame, outpacing all common scarfers and checking nearly every setup sweeper. Oh and not to mention its a scarfer thats actually faster than deoxys-s.

edit: oh subcm seems to be by qc request, we will talk it over i guess

edit2: this is awkward because a decent amount of qc team is fine w/ scarf keld

we will talk over both sets i guess
 
Last edited:
#23
I'd also support implementation of a Choice Scarf Keldeo set, its a fantastic revenger in the metagame, outpacing all common scarfers and checking nearly every setup sweeper. Oh and not to mention its a scarfer thats actually faster than deoxys-s.
A majority of the QC team told me to remove the Scarf set via IRC.
 

Colonel M

OHO!
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Moderator
#24
I think SubCM, especially how some things are shaping up in the metagame now, is fine in AC. Just really explain the difference on how it is played.

Also Scarf should just stay in AC / OO. I feel it isn't a good set - though it can be effective vs some offensive teams those that pack Mega Pinsir and Talonflame really aren't that phazed by it completely. Also anyone that has Mega Venusaur in the team is already spelling a death sentence to Scarf Keldeo doing anything.
 
#25
I think SubCM, especially how some things are shaping up in the metagame now, is fine in AC. Just really explain the difference on how it is played.

Also Scarf should just stay in AC / OO. I feel it isn't a good set - though it can be effective vs some offensive teams those that pack Mega Pinsir and Talonflame really aren't that phazed by it completely. Also anyone that has Mega Venusaur in the team is already spelling a death sentence to Scarf Keldeo doing anything.
Implemented.