LC Kicking Sand in the face of 90 pound weaklings [Peaked #1]

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Gates, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Gates

    Gates

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    Feb 19, 2010
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    Ladder Peaks (open)
    10/14/12 8:44 pm EST
    [​IMG]

    10/18/12 11:30 pm EST
    [​IMG]


    Kicking Sand in the Face of 90 Pound Weaklings - A Little Cup Sand Team
    a.k.a. Charles Atlas: The Team
    a.k.a. Idiot-Proof Double Rush Team​

    by Gates and IceArrow

    [​IMG]
    Fig. 1 - Typical LC match

    So typically I'm an Ubers player but I've been playing a lot of LC lately under several alts and I really enjoy it. It's incredibly centralized but at the same time there's still a lot of room for creative movesets and teams despite the fact that running Top6 here is more effective than in any other format. Top6 is also the team that I ran for a long time until I started facing more and more sand teams who were running both Drilbur and the new Sand Rush Sandshrew. This strategy was surprisingly effective so I decided to try it out to very good results. I posted an earlier build of the team on another forum I frequent that my good friend IceArrow also goes to and he made a couple of really useful suggestions as well as being as successful as I was while laddering with the team. I'm posting the RMT because I feel like it could still be better.




    [​IMG]
    Fig. 2 - My lyrics are bottomless
    HipHopOpotamus (Hippopotas) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Level: 5
    EVs: 20 Atk / 212 Def / 180 SDef / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    Overview:
    So I guess if I want to have a sand team, I need to use this guy right? Hippowdon serves 2 main purposes - get sand up and get SR up. Once both of those are done, I usually have him phaze the crap out of my opponent while tanking a few hits. Unless my opponent has Snover or something that obviously is going to use Sunny Day or Rain Dance (Horsea, Bulbasaur, etc.), I usually play fast and loose with him and generally it works out well.

    Why are you using Whirlwind over Roar/Toxic/Crunch/Ice Fang/Stockpile/Swagger/Curse/Yawn/etc.?
    This team can get really screwed by a couple of key threats in the format unless I phaze them out quickly. Whirlwind allows me to do that, and unlike Roar it gets around Soundproof pokemon (which are virtually nonexistent, but why take the chance?).

    How does Hippowdon even learn Whirlwind?
    Breeding with Shiftry apparently. Breeding is so crazy.



    [​IMG]
    Fig. 3 - Middle school home economics project
    Sandshrew (Drilbur) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 60 SDef / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance

    Overview:
    I don't really feel like I should have to explain this set in detail since it's basically every set Excadrill used before he got Iron Head. You set up and then you sweep, it's not rocket science. One thing to note here, though, is that it's unable to 2HKO a lot of bulky fighting types that use Drain Punch (read: Meinfoo) without boosting, but once it has boosted it can definitely 2HKO them and has a good chance to OHKO them. I found that out the hard way.

    Would 4 attack LO Drilbur be just as good as SD Drilbur on this team?
    I don't think so because Drilbur's movepool is so limited that his fourth move is usually either Rapid Spin, which this team doesn't need since it's not especially weak to hazards, or X-Scissor, which could be sort of decent against Grass types but then again so is +2 Rock Slide. Life Orb also robs me of the bulk I need to get a boost off since there are some pokemon (Meinfoo for starters) that LO Drilbur simply can't kill without a boost.

    Why did you name it Sandshrew? That's so confusing!
    Mindgames.


    [​IMG]
    Fig. 4 - Maybe if you were as fast as Drilbur he wouldn't have caught you
    Drilbur (Sandshrew) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Night Slash
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance

    Overview:
    Holy crap, Sandshrew is actually GOOD? Yes, Sandshrew now works as a respectable compliment (but not a replacement) to Drilbur since they both share abilities and effectively have the same movepool. Although Drilbur excels in attack and speed, Sandshrew is also notable for its considerable bulk, having very high defenses when Eviolite is attached.

    Is Sandshrew's attack really high enough after an SD to sweep with?
    Sometimes. Against aggressive teams I can often get away with just one SD to sweep with Sandshrew without having to even use Drilbur. Against bulkier teams, though, that's almost never an option. So yes, you will often have to boost to +4 Atk before sweeping a team with this guy but even at only +2 he can cause a lot of damage.

    Why do the Double Drilbur strategy anyway instead of just incorporating Hippopotas and Drilbur into a non-sand team?
    Cause I feel like it, BITCH.



    [​IMG]
    Fig. 5 - I found some images that fit its nickname better but this is a SFW site
    Sex Toy (Lileep) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Storm Drain
    Level: 5
    EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - AncientPower
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Recover

    Overview:
    Aside from Double Drilbur, Lileep is the second (third?) most feared sand threat in Little Cup. Storm Drain is a phenomenal ability that compliments the water weakness of the three ground types this team is built around very well. Lileep's extraordinary bulk in the sand combined with both Recover and Giga Drain make it a great Toxic staller.

    Why use HP Fire over Toxic?
    I ran Toxic on Lileep for a long time and I found that it never really did anything significant. A lot of the major threats to this team either beat Lileep outright (Mienfoo, Snover, Scraggy) or are immune to Toxic (Bronzor, Ferroseed). In particular, Lileep attracts more steel types than any other pokemon on the team. This would ordinarily be great since it would lure out steel types for Drilbur or Sandshrew to set up on, but the problem is that it most commonly attracts Ferroseed and Bronzor who are the two hardest steel types for this team to deal with since you can only hit them for neutral damage at best. Hidden Power Fire is a good solution to both of these pokemon and it gives me a reliable switch-in to Ferroseed, which I wouldn't really have had otherwise (Croagunk could work but Thunder Wave is a concern, as is Leech Seed stalling when sandstorm is up). There are a few times where I miss Toxic a little, but I still have residual damage in the form of sandstorm and running a fire attack is just too good to pass up.

    Lileep doesn't look like a sex toy you sicko.
    Come on, am I really the only one who thinks Lileep looks like something out of a hentai? Yes? Okay then...



    [​IMG]
    Fig. 6 - Croagunk just ate a Specs Wailmer Water Spout and is really fat now
    Boxing Frog (Croagunk) (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Dry Skin
    Level: 5
    EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Fake Out
    - Knock Off
    - Sucker Punch

    Overview:
    I'm a big fan of physical attacker Croagunk. Dry Skin is a good ability to have on this team since I need all the water resistance I can get, and being able to run Sucker Punch is what really separates it from Mienfoo. Fake Out is standard for leading and also helps opposing pokemon take residual sand damage. Drain Punch is standard STAB fare and is probably the best fighting-type move in the format. Knock Off is a great move since just about everything relies on Eviolite in this format, so being able to remove it helps against both walls and attacking pokemon. Finally, since Croagunk is a poison type, he can remove Toxic Spikes just by switching in, which is a big deal since it's the only entry hazard my team is really weak to.

    What about Vacuum Wave and Shadow Ball?
    Meh. Neither of those ever really did anything for me. Sucker Punch covers just about everything that Shadow Ball would and Vacuum Wave's low power (even after STAB) and inability to hit ghosts makes it not as good as Sucker Punch. Having Knock Off and Sucker Punch is too valuable to redo my EV spread and run an inferior move.

    "Boxing Frog"?
    Shut up man, thinking of jokes is hard.



    [​IMG]
    Fig. 7 - Brian Ashcraft hard at work
    Kotaku (Slowpoke) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    Level: 5
    EVs: 116 HP / 236 Def / 36 SAtk / 116 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Scald
    - Slack Off
    - Thunder Wave

    Overview:
    So after having two water immunities and a grass resist, I decided that I needed an ice resist as well. Not only that, but I also needed something that was bulky and could hit both fighting types and opposing Drilburs for super-effective damage as well. Enter Slowpoke. Slowpoke's Regenerator gives it absurd bulk as well as resistance to things like Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. Access to Fire Blast and Scald is great too as it hits a lot of threats to this team. Thunder Wave is used here because Murkrow and Misdreavus are both common switch-ins to Slowpoke who are badly hurt by it. Despite all this, though, Slowpoke is one of the weak points of this team. One of the key problems with it is the fact that it doesn't really answer Chinchou, Porygon, or Snover, all huge threats to the team.

    Fire Blast, huh? That's...interesting...
    This was IceArrow's big contribution to the team and it was a really significant one. Originally part of the reason I had Slowpoke in here was to use Psychic to nail fighting types that are common in the format. IceArrow, however, pointed out that my team had a Bronzor weakness and that Slowpoke wasn't really that good against Meinfoo anyway since he could just Knock Off Slowpoke's Eviolite and U-Turn out for huge damage. Eventually I realized he was right so I reluctantly cut Psychic for Fire Blast. It's not amazingly better but it does give me much more notable resilience against Bronzor, which I need. This set does have a problem with bulky water types now, but Lileep and Croagunk help against that.

    How terrible is Kotaku after Stephen Totilo became Editor-in-chief?
    THE WORST (not that it was ever that good in the first place).




    Major Threats
    This team has four major threats. By now you've probably figured them out because I mentioned them about 50 times each but I'll go over them anyway. (Thanks to Gengan for these sprites)​
    [​IMG]Snover - It should be pretty obvious why this is a threat. When you build a team around a certain type of weather and there exists a pokemon that not only starts up a different type of weather but also has attacks that are super-effective against almost all of your team, that pokemon is going to be the number one threat no matter what it is. Snover forces me to play like I'm walking on thin ice (pun intended because puns are COOL) and save Hippowdon for later in the game while Croagunk and Slowpoke do most of the hard work. Snover is beatable if the rest of the opponents' team is not prepared for this team, but in order to beat him my playstyle has to take a complete 180 from normal.
    [​IMG]Porygon - If Porygon comes in on Sandshrew and Traces his Sand Rush, Drilbur is the only pokemon who can outspeed him. This is a huge issue because Porygon's movepool is so diverse and its bulk is so great that it can tank most of the hits I throw at it while firing off Tri-Attack or Ice Beam. The versions that don't carry Ice Beam aren't as threatening, but the fact that someone can make one of the bulkiest pokemon in the tier super fast just by coming in on my sweepers is a big concern. Croagunk can Knock Off Eviolite and Drain Punch it to death but it has to watch out for getting burned or paralyzed by Tri-Attack. Lileep can also try to go toe-to-toe with it, but if Porygon has Toxic or Ice Beam then Lileep will be fighting a losing battle. Slowpoke is the third line of defense, being able to paralyze Porygon, but unfortunately he can't so much else than that.
    [​IMG]Mienfoo - Specifically Drain Punch Mienfoo, but Fake Out+High Jump Kick does 2HKO Drilbur before he can boost and retaliate so pretty much any build is a problem to this team. IceArrow actually thinks Mienfoo is a bigger threat to this team than Snover. I disagree with him because you don't have to completely change your playstyle against Mienfoo like you do with Snover, I can't deny that Mienfoo is easily the most commonly encountered threat to this team. I'm not going to go over what Mienfoo can do to this team because I mentioned him in nearly every analysis, but basically it's a strong bulky attacker that I can't just kill outright. Croagunk is the best answer to Mienfoo because he resists all of Mienfoo's commonly used moves and has access to Knock Off. Boosting Mienfoo builds are much harder to deal with but I've never really seen any. Bulk Up Mienfoo would easily destroy this team though.
    [​IMG]Bronzor - While it doesn't have an enormous offensive presence like the other threats to this team do, Bronzor is one of those pokemon that just has a couple of things it can do that can really mess with my team. For starters, it has STAB Psychic, which means that I can't use Croagunk against it. It also has access to STAB Flash Cannon which doesn't do a ton of damage to Lileep in the sand but combined with Toxic it can add up fast. Finally, it levitates, which combined with its bulk means that Sandshrew and Drilbur need to actually boost against it, which basically guarantees that they will get hit by either Toxic or Psychic. Bronzor is a really good way to wall this team and I've had to do really desperate things to beat it in the past, like sacrificing Croagunk to get a Knock Off or running Fire Blast on Slowpoke.

    Importable (open)
    Hippopotas @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Level: 5
    EVs: 20 Atk / 212 Def / 180 SDef / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    Drilbur @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 60 SDef / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance

    Sandshrew @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Night Slash
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance

    Slowpoke @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    Level: 5
    EVs: 116 HP / 236 Def / 36 SAtk / 116 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Scald
    - Slack Off
    - Thunder Wave

    Lileep @ Eviolite
    Trait: Storm Drain
    Level: 5
    EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - AncientPower
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Croagunk @ Eviolite
    Trait: Dry Skin
    Level: 5
    EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Fake Out
    - Knock Off
    - Sucker Punch




    So that's the team. Thoughts?
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Hi Gates, rating this was really really hard as I am limited to 3 Pokemon. :(

    Anyway, as you said, Bronzor and Snover are the biggest threats to your team. Bronzor can come in and wall the hell out of your team, though without recovery it might be able to take down, but if played correctly it will be a nuisance. Snover is also a huge threat as you literally have nothing to take on Blizzards. Porygon and Mienfoo however, are handled by Croagunk whereas Lileep can outstall Porygon and Mienfoo won't be able to defeat Sandshrew and Drilbur, so I think you're just overestimating them as threats.

    Basically, I think your choice of Slowpoke as your Ice resist was lacking. It simply won't be able to take on the reason you chose an Ice resist for, Snover. Therefore, I recommend changing it with Magnemite, which will also patch up your Bronzor weakness and by that opens up a clean path for Double Rush to sweep.
    Magnemite (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Magnemite @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    Level: 5
    EVs: 156 HP / 36 Def / 240 SAtk / 76 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Magnet Rise
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Thunderbolt


    Another thing you could try is Toxic > Whirlwind on Hippopotas, as that would help you cripple Misdreavus and Mienfoo easily.

    Good Luck!
  3. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude lol
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Hey man i got your request and unfortunatly i don't have to much to say. This is a very neat Little Cup team and congrats on the peak!

    As both you and Furry mentioned Bronzong and Choice Scarf Snover are two big threats to your team and the double rush strategy in general. The funny thing was i was going to suggest Magnemite but looks like Furry beat me to it.

    Anyway the only thing i can really think of is Toxic>Hidden Power [Fire] on Lileep. I know you said you like Hidden Power [Fire] more to nail steel-type swith ins but if you decide to go with Magnemite steels aren't as problematic as they were before letting you run Toxic on Lileep easier. You said you liked Whirlwind on Hippopotas so keeping it and putting Toxic on Lileep is not a bad idea. I suggest you play around with both ideas.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped! Also i apologise for the short rate because tbh there isn't to much wrong with this team or to much that i can change seeing as i didnt want to change the central strategy of this team (Hippopotsd, Drilbur, Sandshrew) Oh and Luvdisc'd.

    P.S. Your Drilbur and Sandshrew nicknames are a total mindfuck ;)

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Magnemite--->Slowpoke

    Lileep
    .Toxic--->Hidden Power [Fire]



    ~Superpowerdude
  4. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
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    Completely agree with all of furrys changes, also agree with superpowerdudes change, hp fire would be unnecessary with magnemite and toxic will let lileep take on porygon much more safely. As for your mienfoo weakness, is pretty much solved by using misdreavus. While it does make porygon a bit of a larger problem, there's no way porygons stopping all drillbur, sandshrew, and misdreavus. Missy also covers your ground weakness giving you a better chance against opposing sand. Croagunk isn't doing any specific job anyway tbh. I
    For a set I reccomend going down the support route, double status for example I think could definitely help your team which is pretty lacking on the status side of things and takes down porygon more efficently.
  5. Sunkern

    Sunkern

    Joined:
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    Have you ever been with a hippo on taco night? Not pretty

    More seriously, your drilburs look like twins. you might want to make them a little more different. Here are ideas
    Sandshrew: Super fang (for very bulky opponents), x-scissor (a little stronger than night slash), poison jab (poison), knock off (eviolite abuse)
    Drilbur: Submission (coverage/power), substitute (status protection), skull bash (they may switch in to a ghost/rock/steel but you get a free defense boost and make them switch in and out of your SR)

    Yes he does. He hunts for petalils and smoochum every night.

    Your croagunk is vulnerable to set ups by ghosts

    Trace porygon, snover, and riolu are HUGE threats to your team. A single mach puch abuser can fix all of them. While mach punch may not be able to kill pory, most mach punch users can also use some sort of stronger fighting move.
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    You have no means of special attacking. Your best bet is Abra > Croagunk, so you can hit from the special side pretty hard. Magic Guard helps Abra in ignoring Sand, and even Life Orb recoil. Abra also can also check Riolu for you, and is unaffected by hail.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Abra @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Level: 5
    EVs: 200 Spd / 240 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock / Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Protect / Calm Mind
  7. Sunkern

    Sunkern

    Joined:
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    Abra does not counter prankster riolu. It may survive everthing riolu can throw at it but it has no means of attacking it. Riolu would just need to reduce you to your abra and kill it with the remainder of its team.
  8. Gengan

    Gengan

    Joined:
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    Abra takes no damage from hazards, can mess with the Copycat + Roar chain with Protect, and can use Psychic to hit Riolu for super-effective damage. Therefore, it does counter Riolu.
  9. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Gengan please don't be so hostile... The kid make a mistake don't job down his throat.

    anyways, i support the suggestions that magnemite is > slowpoke. other than that, don't change your team. u don't need a special attacker if your entire team is physical attackers because then you can break down physical walls so that another physical sweeper can sweep
  10. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

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    Make Drilbur a Life Orb attacker with Earthquake / Shadow Claw / Rock Slide or X Scissor / Rapid Spin. It's a fantastic wall breaker that does a fantastic job wearing down Sandshrew's checks. Rapid Spin is Rapid Spin.
  11. Gates

    Gates

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hi everyone, thank you all for rating. Sorry for the late response, I've been really busy lately so I haven't had time to respond and I likely won't have time to test these changes for a while either.

    Magnemite is an idea that I had not considered. It does give me concerns about adding an additional weakness to ground and fighting but it checks Snover and steel types so well that it definitely warrants some testing. Being able to run Toxic on Lileep also sounds appealing since I would have a solid steel check then. I'm definitely keeping Whirlwind on Hippopotas though, it's too valuable to give up.

    Also, some of you have pointed out Riolu as a weakness. I honestly wasn't considering it when I wrote the RMT because I encountered it a total of 3 times while laddering. I lost to it once though so I guess I should consider it a threat? Either way, Mienfoo and Riolu have very similar weaknesses, so if I have a solution to one it should serve as a solution to the other, right? Okay, that logic is horrible but whatever. Riolu also isn't going to like the sandstorm damage. It won't be enough to kill it, but he won't like it.

    Actually I've lost games to Mienfoo because I didn't SD when I had then chance and his Drain Punch recovery beat out my EQ damage. He's also the most common pokemon in the format. Believe me, I'm not underestimating Mienfoo at all.

    This is definitely going in the OP.

    Interesting suggestion. Well, Croagunk doesn't learn Mach Punch but I could consider putting Vacuum Wave on him. It might help a little against Snover since those are usually Naive, but I doubt it would be that beneficial against anything else since Riolu outspeeds Croagunk and Porygon can just get Drain Punched.

    Lileep isn't a special attacker?

    I've considered Abra for the team before but I ultimately decided against it because it's just so frail. I'm also reluctant to cut Croagunk since it's been pulling a lot of weight on this team, but I might cut Slowpoke for Abra since having two psychics-types would be pretty redundant and probably make me weak to Misdreavus and Murkrow as well as Mienfoo. Doing so would change the dynamic of the team from a balanced one to an aggressive one, and I'm not entirely sure that's the right direction to go. It's still work testing though.

    Redundancy is the point. The whole idea behind the Double Rush strategy is that since one Drilbur is hard to deal with, two Drilburs are even harder to deal with. Each of them has to be able to function individually as a sweeper. This means they both run SD and EQ (for obvious reasons), Rock Slide (because it offers amazing coverage), and a move to hit Bronzor (and Claydol I guess) for neutral or better damage. Ideally the 4th move will also hit Mienfoo/Misdreavus/Mukrow for super-effective damage. This limits what you can run by quite a bit. Aside from Aerial Ace, which won't hit Bronzor for any relevant amount of damage, they don't have anything that hits Mienfoo for super effective damage, and they already can hit Murkrow for super-effective damage with Rock Slide (which is a little risky to rely on given its accuracy but whatever). This leaves Misdreavus, who is immune (Super Fang, Submission, Skull Bash) or resistant (X-Scissor, Poison Jab) to a lot of the things you suggested. Misdreavus won't go down in one Rock Slide even if I'm at +2 and accuracy is a big concern and I want to make sure it doesn't use Shadow Ball or worse Will-O-Wisp, so I need Shadow Claw/Night Slash to kill it as soon as I can. I agree that I could probably have better options between the two if I wanted to use them to work together, but the reality is that because I could use either one to sweep, they both have to stand on their own.

    As for your suggestions, I think Brick Break would be a better option than Submission. The lack of recoil plus the ability to break through screens is enough to warrant a small drop in base power. And Substitute is not a bad idea, but again, I won't be able to hit Bronzor at all if I run it. And Skull Bash? Really? Really?

    I'm not entirely opposed to All-Out Attacking Drilbur. What I'm more concerned about is the use of Life Orb over Eviolite. I'm not going to pretend that Drilbur has amazing bulk with Eviolite because he doesn't, it just makes his defenses go from bad to average. But I am concerned about how long he'll last against threats like Mienfoo with crap defenses and Life Orb recoil every turn. A lot of the things that Drilbur has trouble with are physically bulky pokemon and physical walls, and Life Orb does less than a Swords Dance boost would to alleviate those threats aside from the fact that he doesn't have to spend a turn boosting. I can't really run calcs because the damage calculator I typically use is down right now, but unless LO Drilbur can 2HKO bulky Mienfoo after factoring in Drain Punch recovery, there really won't be anything to sway me towards running an All-Out attacker over SD Sweeper.

    This also goes back to what I said before - redundancy is the name of the game. The point of these sets on Drilbur and Sandshrew is that they stand on their own. And if I were to choose one of them to be my dedicated SD sweeper, why would I choose Sandshrew? Drilbur is way better.

    Also, I really don't think I need a Rapid Spinner on this team. Nothing on the team is weak to SR and Croagunk absorbs Toxic Spikes. My only concern with hazards is if my opponent gets a layer of Spikes up in addition to SR, and that doesn't happen often enough or have a large enough effect on the game to really warrant a spinner. If I were to run all-out attacking Drilbur, I'd probably run EQ/Rock Slide/Shadow Claw/X-Scissor or Brick Break so I can get as much coverage as possible.



    Thanks again for the rates everyone!
  12. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Frankly, you are. You still have Croagunk which is a fantastic check, plus from what I understand from your post, you lost because you didn't use the oppurtunity to get a boost from Swords Dance. Thus, Mienfoo is not the one who caused you to lose the match, it was your misplay. Using the Life Orbed Drilbur set blarajan recommended also helps with this more, while making it easier for Sandshrew to sweep.

    Good luck.
  13. Sunkern

    Sunkern

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    Yes psychic can ohko riolu, yes abra takes no hazard damage, and yes protect screws up a copy/roar chain but why would you run protect on abra? riolu isn't common enough a threat to warrant wasting a moveslot
  14. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Protect is run on Abra to prevent Fake Out from Mienfoo (which breaks Focus Sash), and Mienfoo is a very common threat. It protect against Sucker Punch from Murkrow, who is a very common threat. Every Abra in existence runs Protect. Plus, Protect is never a wasted moveslot because of it's all-around great utility.

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