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King (Ubers Double Drought Charizard RMT, 4k)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by shrang, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Huh, so it's my 4k post, I'll make another RMT out of it. I haven't posted RMT in ages, and I have a really fun one right now so I'll do it. Everyone knows that the Ubers ladder is horrible, so I can get away with using stupid ass teams and still win. However, trickroom, Sweep and I stick around on #ubers quite a bit so we tend to try out theme teams and all sorts of gimmicks. This setup was one I had made ages ago, though, and is probably one of my favourite gimmicks ever. This team looks like incredibly unviable, having 4 SR weak mons, 2 of which are 4x weak, no Kyogre check whatsoever and no Steels to tank Dragons. However, try asking the numerous opponents that have bowed down to it, and you'll find there's way more to this than meets the eye! Basically, the team revolves around switching Drought mons into Kyogre and then trapping it with Wobbuffet. As for other weather conditions, or even non-Choiced Kyogre... well, I just improvise. Anyway, I know Sweep has already made a highly successful Charizard RMT, but this team is just more badass and 100x ballsier.

    Team Building Process:


    [Groudon][Ninetales][Vulpix][Wobbuffet]

    This team originally was a triple Drought team. Vulpix was pretty much Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis / Roar / Sunny Day for the sun and doing as much as possible to not get set up on.

    [Groudon][Ninetales][Vulpix][Wobbuffet][Espeon]

    So I guess to safeguard both Ninetales and Vulpix (both had Sash), I needed Stealth Rock off the field. Rapid Spinning is hard to pull off a lot of the time, and with the kind of team I was building, it was pretty much "keep SR off or die". I actually originally picked Espeon, just because I wanted some offensive presence. I had Calm Mind / Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire / Moonlight, and it worked for a little bit... I suppose.

    [Groudon][Ninetales][Wobbuffet][Espeon][Ho-oh][Reshiram]

    So this was the first version of my team. I realised Vulpix was unnecessary, so I got rid of him. With presumed sun and no hazards, the obvious choice was stack the rest of the team with hard hitting Fire-types. Ho-oh and Reshiram immediately came to mind.

    [Groudon][Ninetales][Wobbuffet][Xatu][Ho-oh][Blaziken]

    So I realised that I needed some Speed in the team otherwise Darkrai, Skymin and Mewtwo just about ran circles around me. I decided to replace Reshiram, which wasn't pulling its weight with Blaziken, and it worked relatively well for a while. I also replaced Espeon, mainly because I realised Xatu did pretty much everything better, since it could switch into Earthquake and not get demolished in two hits by Groudon.

    [Groudon][Ninetales][Wobbuffet][Xatu][Ho-oh][Arceus-Fire]

    This is when I started playing around with the team. This is pretty much the team in which I decide plug *insert Fire-type* into the team and see how it did. I've pretty much stuck every Fire-type even remotely worth using into this setup (into Fire Arceus's place). I've put in Magcargo, Volcarona, Houndoom and Camerupt. I could have put in some other Fire-types, but we know enough about the relatively good ones (eg Arcanine, Darmanitan, Victini and Heatran). Fire Arceus, apart from good old Charizard (which I'll get to), was my favourite. Nothing stood in the way of the mighty SD Fireceus. Nothing.

    [Groudon][Ninetales][Wobbuffet][Xatu][Ho-oh][Charizard]

    So Sweep and trickroom were having so much fun with Charizard I decided "why the hell not". It fit in really well, the base 100 Speed lets it revenge kill a lot of things when you put a Scarf onto it. Charizard is indeed too powerful for Ubers.


    Team in detail:

    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch

    Obviously if you want Drought, you'd use Groudon. I picked the fast lead since 1) Stealth Rock is good, and 2) this thing is pretty much the only thing that can kill Dialga immediately to prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Defensive Groudon may last longer, but can't OHKO standard Dialgas. Obviously, if they can tank the EQ and set up Stealth Rock then I'm fucked immediately. I have double sun anyway, so Groudon can afford to be less bulky. Anyway, this set is obviously there so Groudon can OHKO Dialga and Tyranitar unless they try something weird (like max HP / max Def Bold Dialga, Balloon Dialga or Tyranitar), in which case you'd probably see me ragequit immediately. The moves are all pretty standard. Stealth Rock for Stealth Rock, Earthquake for STAB, Stone Edge for Ho-oh, Fire Punch for Ferrothorn. It's really surprising how many people attempt to switch in their Ho-oh into Groudon, thinking that they can wall it. I guess that's what happens when you have people using the dumbest Groudon set ever (SR / EQ / Fire Punch / Thunder Wave). Seriously, if your Groudon loses to Ho-oh, it should either be that you got speed crept (relatively legit), Stone Edge misses (also legit), or you're just plain stupid (see above moveset). Unless that Pokemon is something like Forretress, the more Pokemon you give Ho-oh free switches to when running a sun team, the more stupid you are.

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Overheat
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Toxic

    So here's the first non-standard thing you'll see on my team. Ninetales is on the large part, useless, since it's just death fodder to bring sun back into the game and let Wobbuffet fuck Kyogre up. It sounds a bit like a certain Magic Bouncer that a lot of people have a fetish for on the ladder. Anyway, apart from setting up sun and dying, I guess Ninetales hasn't been COMPLETE dead weight. If I can keep the Sash (which isn't TOO hard) on Ninetales, I can pull off some emergency revenge kills with Ninetales, or clutch Toxic something, which is always cool. For example, Ninetales can revenge kill a Rayquaza with HP Ice, or a 60% ExtremeKiller with Overheat. It can make it a lot harder for stuff like Rock Arceus to set up by using Toxic on it. All in all, Ninetales is mostly useless, but I tend to salvage what I can.

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Sleep Talk
    -

    This may look really awkward, but this Ho-oh variant is utterly amazing. This was originally physically defensive Ho-oh with Roost and Whirlwind and Leftovers. Its physical bulk, when invested, really wowed me. It could take stuff like +2 ExtremeSpeed from Ekiller without too much trouble at all and either burn it or Whirlwind it out (although that may be due to Ekiller being a pussy). I'm pretty sure I've seen it take Stone Edge from defensive Groudon as well. However, I want really missed how hard Ho-oh could hit but I didn't want to take off its bulk. So, the easy way was to just slap a Choice Band on it. It turned out pretty well. It hit even harder than it used to, yet I get to keep all that amazing physical defense. Roost isn't missed TOO much, since Ho-oh has Regenerator anyway. So now, Ho-oh can take about 70% from +2 Ekiller and deal about the same amount of damage in return with sun boosted Sacred Fire, for example. It only has three moves since that's pretty much all Ho-oh needs. Sleep Talk is so I can switch into Darkrai, and I didn't want to put in a third attack like Earthquake since Ho-oh doesn't really need it anyway, and it'll just interfere with Sleep Talk. The EVs aren't anything too specific, I put 32 Spe to speed creep a bit, 248 to go in HP for an odd number and the rest in Defense.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus (Charizard) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Air Slash
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice

    The most fantastic Pokemon to have ever existed. Charizard is alpha and amiga. This Pokemon is just too powerful for Ubers. If there was one to represent the perfect Pokemon, it would this thing. Anyway, Charizard was another one of those fun Fire-types I decided to try out because I had nothing better to do since both Sweep and trickroom were having so much fun with it. It actually patched up a lot of problems that my team was having. For one, I needed a strong special attacker to OHKO Groudon immediately if they predict the Xatu switch in and Stone Edge it immediately. I also wanted a relatively fast revenge killer that could revenge kill Deoxys-A, which is a massive pain since it can kill Xatu and then set up Rocks. Fortunately, Charizard could actually do both. What set Charizard apart from Fire Arceus, which I had previously, was that if Xatu went down to Deo-A (which wasn't uncommon, that thing is a real pest), Charizard could potentially outspeed and Air Slash flinch the bastard, preventing Rocks from going up, which can be huge. Focus Blast wrecks Tyranitar switch-ins, and HP Ice can help me revenge kill Rayquaza. This Pokemon totally deserves the nickname "Arceus", even more than Arceus itself.

    On the side note, Mega Charizard is getting Drought! Fuck yes Charizard is the most amazing Pokemon ever. Charizard would be a far better Drought inducer than shitty Ninetales. It has Focus Blast to get past Tyranitar instead of playing around Will-O-Wisp and hope he doesn't Choice Band Stone Edge you. Even though Charzard is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, at least it has Roost to help it last a bit longer, unlike Ninetales who only has Pain Split, and... Protect and Leftovers? Yeah Ninetales sucks. In fact, most Fire-types would be better than Ninetales at summoning Drought. Arcanine has better stats, Close Combat to swat aside Tyranitar, Wild Charge to kill Politoed and ExtremeSpeed to revenge kill things, along with Morning Sun to heal itself. Hell, even Flareon and Magcargo would be better Drought inducers. At least Flareon has a boss Special Defense, Wish to heal itself and Superpower to fuck over Tyranitar. Magcargo has a 4x Fire resistance, which is pretty priceless on sun, as well as Stealth Rock and Recover. Fuck yeah, Charizard would be amazing. Down with Ninetales.

    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd / 8 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Grass Knot
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave

    So I guess the last two Pokemon is what I use to keep this team together. Xatu is pretty much the only thing this team has to stop itself getting butchered by Stealth Rock. However, Xatu does a really good job at this anyway. Against all the slow leads (Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn), Xatu completely walls them. For stuff like Dialga, I tend to just OHKO them with Groudon, or for Groudon, I OHKO that with Charizard. Xatu can come in and take a Draco Meteor and die if I'm stuck on the wrong Pokemon. However, Xatu CAN actually beat defensive Dialga one on one if I switch into Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave or something. Xatu can survive a Draco Meteor (from defensive only) after a Calm Mind, then just spam Roost a couple of times. It can actually be a win condition against a bunch of stall teams if I get rid of their hard hitter. I picked Grass Knot and Heat Wave as they are Xatu's best ways of removing problematic Stealth Rock users. Grass Knot does a reasonable amount of damage to Groudon, which is an annoying fucker to this team if it carries Stealth Rock. Xatu can actually take a Stone Edge from Groudon that lacks Attack investment. I AM thinking about changing this to Scarf Xatu with U-turn so I can better take on Deoxys-A, although losing a stallbreaking mon kind of sucks.

    Now I know there's going to be people arguing against me about how Xatu is shit and Espeon is the god of Pokemon, but fuck that. I've used both in this spot and Xatu is clearly superior. I found that out the hard way when Espeon got 2HKOed by Deoxys-S in the sun. I like it when my Magic Bouncer CAN stop the best entry hazard user in the game, thanks.

    [​IMG]
    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Encore
    - Mirror Coat
    - Counter
    - Safeguard

    Wobbuffet is an amazingly underrated Pokemon. The stuff this thing can do for a team is amazing. Its bulk allows it to revenge kill virtually any revenge killer except for THE most powerful, while Encore provides amazing setup opportunities. The main reason for Wobbuffet on the team is basically stage 2 of Operation Kill Kyogre. After Ninetales (or if really needed, Groudon) dies, Wobbuffet comes into a Choice locked Kyogres and Mirror Coat it to hell. Obviously, defensive Kyogres are not as simple to take out, but since they are not as powerful, they are easier to play around with powerful attacks from Ho-oh and Groudon. Still, even if Kyogre is defensive or completely absent, Wobbuffet is still incredibly useful. Usually, Ho-oh in the sun counters Palkia really well, but if Wobbuffet is doing well and there's no Kyogre, I may send in Wobbuffet instead. Even if Palkia crits with Spacial Rend, Wobbuffet can survive and destroys it. I really shake my head when people do silly stuff like send in EKiller straight after I trap something and then try to set up... and then keep going when I send in Ho-oh or Groudon, or whatever. Stupid, stupid people.


    Key threats covered:

    Kyogre:
    - Choice sets are completely demolished by Ninetales and Wobbuffet. It doesn't even matter if you predict the switch to death-fodder Ninetales, you're either swithing Kyogre out and sun comes back in... or you kill Ninetales/Groudon and promptly get it killed by Wobbuffet. You can't win the weather war with a Choice Kyogre. This is pretty much guaranteed (unless for some crazy reason I sack both Groudon AND Ninetales or lose Wobbuffet before that)
    - Defensive sets are a bit more annoying, but in exchange, they can't stand up to hard hits from Groudon and Ho-oh repeatedly.

    ExtremeKiller:
    - What a shit Poke. I might not appear to have a solid check to it, but it wouldn't really do shit most of the time. It can't OHKO Ho-oh, who would usually do about 70% back with Sacred Fire, burning it a lot of the time. Groudon lops 50% off it with EQ while tanking an ExtremeSpeed. Even if it gets past Ho-oh or Groudon, Ninetales can usually take it out with Overheat in the sun while surviving due to Focus Sash.

    Ghostceus:
    - Ho-oh decks the shit out of this thing. SD Ghostceus is shit so we're not going to talk about him, unless you're talking about Shadow Force, which STILL can't KO Ho-oh.

    Mewtwo:
    - Ho-oh can take an attack and brutalise it with Sacred Fire. Charizard can OHKO with Fire Blast. Wobbuffet fucks it over.

    Darkrai:
    - Officially the most misused Pokemon in the whole tier. Ho-oh with Sleep Talk fucks it over, although sometimes I send it Xatu and bounce back Dark Void for those silly nubs who spam it turn 1 (which are a lot).

    Deoxys-A:
    - Probably the biggest common threat to the team. Sometimes I really consider switching to Scarf Xatu with U-turn just so I can play more mindgames with this thing. For now, Xatu can bring in down to Sash a lot of the time as long as they don't have Ice Beam or Dark Pulse, a if all else fails, Charizard attempts to Air Slash flinch it, which works sometimes :D.

    Groudon:
    - Is pretty annoying, especially when there are more than one potential Stealth Rock user on the opposing team. Grass Knot was used over Psyshock on Xatu specifically there to damage Groudon more than anything else. Fortunately, Xatu can take one Stone Edge from defensive Groudon and Grass Knot it for quite a lot of damage. What will be annoying is when the opponent has SR on something else and Groudon is an offensive variant, OHKOing Xatu right from the get-go :(. Charizard can OHKO the fucker with Fire Blast though.

    Tyranitar:
    - Is again annoying. Groudon can OHKO. Normally I can put enough pressure so TTar can't set up SR without risk dying (eg have Charizard in to Focus Blast it), but I really need to be predicting dead on centre or I'm pretty fucked.

    Dialga:
    - Normally pretty easy to take care of. Most people don't realise that the opposing Groudon could potentially OHKO your stupid Dialga with LO Earthquake. That said, max HP / max Def Bold Dialgas can go to hell, because they can survive an Earthquake. Xatu can actually set up on Dialga with Calm Mind Roost as long as it doesn't switch into an attack, which is nice (which a lot of people tend to be so focussed on setting up Stealth Rock that they fail to notice Xatu in the background, lol).

    Rockceus:
    - Forfeit - fortunately it's pretty rare. Wobbuffet and Encoring it into something detrimental is pretty much the only long term check to it. Groudon does quite a lot with EQ I guess, while Charizard can do a lot to it with Focus Blast. I did recently face a Stealth Rock Rockceus though. Needless to say, that game was over before it started.

    Surprise SR set up mons:
    - Yeah fuck you guys. SR Normal Arceus and other random mons like that really ruin my day :(

    Shout-outs:
    Ubers bros:
    - trickroom
    - Melee_Mewtwo
    - Sweep
    - Furai
    - Theorymon
    - Poppy
    - faint
    - Dice
    - CherubAgent
    - Donkey
    #penis bros:
    - mikel
    - jrp
    - Aurora
    - Enguarde
    - Frizy
    - skylight
    - Genesect
    - Hugendugen
    - MJB
    - butt
  2. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    Epic, masculine team, I like the use of Focus Blast on Charizard to lure in Tyranitar and deal a big chunk of damage to it. It's also great for the annoying Heatran. Just a couple suggestions:

    1. You can try Rock Polish over Fire Punch on Groudon, since your team walks all over Ferro and Forry anyway (Xatu laughs really hard at them). Rock Polish can help deal with teams with Rock Arceus (so they can't go in and burn you if you can get a RP up), and gives you a nice cleaner if you can preserve it late game.

    2. Dragon Pulse over HP Ice on Charizard perhaps? It helps revenge kill Kyurem-W (without risking Focus Miss) and Palkia, dealing around 70% to both. You do lose the hard hit on Rayquaza but DP still hits it kinda hard, even with Solar Power rendered moot by Air Lock. Calc: Dragon Pulse: 54.13 - 63.81%

    Charizard is simply too strong, it kills poor Arceus in one shot most of the time after SR and can harass random mons that could otherwise annoy this team, like Cresselia.
  3. Grey Knight

    Grey Knight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
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    I suggest something like focus sash espeon over that xatu , and something like palkia/lati@s over ntales
    you cant relay on wobbu to kill everything, i mean what stops a calm mind kyogre or tyranitar from ripping huge holes in your team ?

    even something ridiculous gimmicky like DD tyranitar destroys your team singlehandedly after your groudon falls down to 50%
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  4. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

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    10/10 because you have what is above Ubers.
    Matt Tuck, shrang and ogasian like this.
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Sweep :
    - RP Groudon sounds like a good idea, I might try it.
    - I did use Dragon Pulse until very recently. I am a lot weaker to Palkia now since Ho-oh can't tank it forever, but I do have Wobbuffet. Reshiram is rare, but Ho-oh can take Draco Meteors, switch out, come back in to tank more. Stone Edge ones fuck me over though. I did change to HP Ice mainly because of Ray (annoying DD variants can pretty much only be revenged by Charizard (and Ninetales too I guess). I can switch back, I guess.

    So... adding Espeon and Palkia/Lati@s would make me less weak to Tyranitar? I've already explained why I changed to Xatu, and for Kyogre... well, Calm Mind Kyogre is still no concern since I can kill it or put enough pressure that it's not a threat. I'd Encore Kyogre and then spam Brave Birds all over the place as you switch out. Funnily enough, I can sack Ninetales or something like that to bring the sun in, and even if Kyogre Calm Minds up to +6, Wobbuffet can still take a +6 Surf (even Hydro Pump sometimes) and kill Kyogre that way. It is of no threat whatsoever. If you read the OP, you'll know I don't use Wobbuffet to kill everything. I use it to kill Kyogre, although it can usually do more than just that. As for Tyranitar, it's not going to get less threatening just because run Espeon or Palkia/Latios, if anything it will get worse. The DDTar example was just not very well thought out at all. Not only does Groudon completely trash it, but even if it somehow got to low enough health where Tyranitar can kill it at +1, Charizard can still revenge kill it with Focus Blast. Hell Charizard outspeeds Tyranitar even at +2 Spe.
  6. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Charizard + ninetales makes an epic ubers team. 10/10.
  7. Kebabier

    Kebabier

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    Very nice team.

    But you have many weaknesses to water type. Kyogre scarfed Water spout destroys 2/3 of your team.
    It must be good to play haha
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  8. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    sack ninetales => wobb revenges kyogre => sun wins the weather war.
  9. Kebabier

    Kebabier

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    ofc yes but I'm not convinced it will makes him win the game lol
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  10. Sweep

    Sweep
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    I've seen this team in action and it is simply too easy to trap a choiced Kyogre with Wobb after saccing Ninetales (or in an emergency, Groudon) for it to severely threaten this team. If badly weakened Charizard can pick it off too.
  11. Donkey

    Donkey

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    +1 you went to the effort of actually making a team based around charizard rather than just throwing charizard on a team with SD arceus normal and stomping ladder
  12. Deoxymoron

    Deoxymoron

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    Hey shrang, this is a pretty sweet team.

    My one suggestion would be to replace Leftovers on Wobbuffet with Custap Berry and Safeguard with Destiny Bond. This can often get a surprise bonus kill out of Wobbuffet, and the lefties recovery doesn't make a huge difference.

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. 28 HP / 232 Def Wobbuffet: 398-468 (75.37 - 88.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, Custap range
    252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Outrage vs. 28 HP / 232 Def Wobbuffet: 351-413 (66.47 - 78.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, Custap range after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 28 HP / 232 Def Wobbuffet: 366-432 (69.31 - 81.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, Custap range after Stealth Rock

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