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Kingdra (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by MysticClaydol, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    QC Approved: 3 / 3 : Oglemi, Snunch and Chou Toshio
    GP Approved: 0 / 2 :

    [Overview]

    <p>Kingdra was one of the many Pokemon that suffered from a tier drop this generation. While being one premier sweepers of OU and Ubers in Gen 4. It has now become one of the few UU Dragons. Its dual STAB coverage has new walls such as Ferroseed to deal with and the prevalent Empoleon but still possessing good defensive typing giving Kingdra only one weakness to the uncommon Dragon type. It has good stats to back it up giving it both offensive and defensive capabilities but it doesn't focus in one single area causing it to be lose out on the other sweepers and walls UU has to offer coupled with its decent movepool giving it just what it could need but not much else. With balanced but solid stats all around, a limited but perfectly focused movepool, and tools such as Dragon Dance and Rain Dance, Kingdra can easily find itself sweeping through teams.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Dragon Dance
    Move 1: Dragon Dance
    Move 2: Waterfall
    Move 3: Outrage
    Move 4: Substitute
    Item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragon Dance is one of the well known sweeping tools of Dragons such as Rayquaza, Salamence and Garchomp who have never been allowed into UU until now. Kingdra's decent bulk and offensive stats allow it to sweep easily with a Dragon Dance or 2 under its belt. Waterfall and Outrage provide near perfect coverage and both get the STAB. Substitute is there for scouting and to protect status. Lum Berry cures status but more importantly cures the confusion from Outrage. The EV spread and nature offers maximum offensive stats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Little change can really be made on the nature and EVs. Jolly could be used over Adamant but it only allows you to out speed +1 Adamant Haxorus and +1 Modest Yanmega. Leftovers is the secondary item working very well with Substitute and healing off HP used to make Substitutes or from entry hazards damage but Lum Berry is superior.</p>

    <p>Ferroseed and Empoleon wall the Dragon and Water-type moves coming from Kingdra. Therefore, a Fighting-type pairs well with Kingdra. Notable mentions include Lucario and Hitmonlee. Lucario's Steel typing lets it wall Gyro Balls from Ferroseed while dealing the hurt with Close Combat. Hitmonlee is identical but possesses no Steel typing, It does have a 4X Super-effective Blaze Kick. Entry Hazards and Dual Screens help Kingdra set up more Dragon Dances and have that extra damage on opponents switching in. Uxie and Azelf can set up Duall Screens, Frosslass and Deoxys-D are good at setting up hazards.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Rain Dance Sweeper
    Move 1: Rain Dance
    Move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    Move 3: Draco Meteor
    Move 4: Ice Beam
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Swift Swim, Kingdra can just rip through teams in the Rain. The coverage provided by Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor and Ice Beam is nothing to be taken lightly. 164 Speed lets you go before +1 Base 100's in the rain. With Max Special Attack and a Modest nature dealing a lot of damage to anything in your way.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The 92 remaining EV's are in HP for extra bulk, more EV's can be put into speed but nothing notable is outsped. Rain Dance can be replaced by a coverage move like Hidden Power Fire or Electric but setting up rain with Kingdra isn't difficult to do in UU. Damp Rock or Leftovers can be used in the Item slot for more rain or durabilty but Life Orb helps out more by dealing enough damage. Kingdra does not have to be in a rain team and can work on its own but using a Damp Rock with this in mind can screw over some of your teammates. Dragon Pulse can be used as an alternative to Draco Meteor but does not do enough damage instantly.</p>

    <p>This set mainly has problems with bulky waters so your own bulky water types or Toxic users can help wear them down enough to not impede Kingdra. Lucario or Hitmonlee can deal with Ferroseed and Empoleon.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Choice Specs
    Move 1: Draco Meteor
    Move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    Move 3: Dragon Pulse
    Move 4: Hidden Power Electric
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Timid / Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While wearing a nice pair of spectacles Kingdra can inflict higher amounts damage instantly. The coverage available is also second to none with Water and Dragon being unresisted by UU except for Empoleon and Ferroseed. However due to the power of Choice Specs you have nothing to worry about by using a super-effective Hidden Power to deal decent damage to such counters. The set has a unique selling point by wearing down teams by using Dragon-type moves early then finishing up with Water-type moves. Dragon Pulse is there for cleaning up late-game when Pokemon are weakened through the course of the battle but can still be used for sweeping if your opponent has nothing to resist it. Timid is the preferable nature ensuring you outspeed other Base 85s like Heracross. Swift Swim can work well with rain teams or against them as your sweeping ability is increased. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Modest can give you extra power but higher speed is often more practical. The EV spread could be changed to 92 HP / 252 SpAtk / 164 Spe if you are using rain or trying to counter by using a Kingdra but you will lose to Heracross. Other kinds of Choice sets are not as forgiving to Kingdra, Choice Scarf is outclassed by rain and Choice Band has limited coverage. Ice Beam could be used over Dragon Pulse but you Draco Meteors deal good enough amounts of damage to Grass-types. Surf can be used for its better accuracy but the power drop is not recommended. Hidden Power Fire can be used in the last slot for hurting Ferroseed and Shedninja but hey aren't as common as Empoleon.</p>

    <p>This set's counters depend on what move you lock yourself into : Hydro Pump / Surf brings out Empoleon, Zapdos and Gastrodon while Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse brings out Registeel, Empoleon and Lucario. A Fighting-type of your own can deal with any of Kingdra's counters especially Chansey who can come in on anything. Entry hazards help get some extra damage often caused by switch-ins to a counter. Registeel has great synergy with Kingdra forming a Dragon-Steel combination which a=has always been popular in Ubers and OU having good defensive synergy. Tis set can deal with water resists so having another water type of your own can use the opportunity made.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: ChestoRest
    Move 1: Dragon Dance
    Move 2: Rest
    Move 3: Waterfall
    Move 4: Outrage
    Item: Chesto Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 184 HP / 160 Atk / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With reliable recovery Kingdra can easily set up in front of walls or status user like Chansey or Milotic. Chesto Berry allows Kingdra to set up Dragon Dances until it get low on health, Rest up and wake up instantly and prepare to sweep. It also makes great sleep fodder. Waterfall and Outrage give nice coverage in UU. 164 Speed allow it to outspeed +1 Base 100's after 2 Dragon Dances and 184 HP lets you easily live Ice Beams from Slowbro or Giga Drains from Celebi with the rest of the EVs dumped into attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Obviously a pure offensive EV spread with no bulk could be used but does not have as much merit. Sleep Talk can be used over Waterfall but the lack of coverage and unreliability of Sleep Talk doesn't make it worthwhile. A Jolly nature shouldn't be used either as you have enough speed so attack investment would be better. This set is weaker than other sets and should be used as a late game sweeper. Fighting types to deal with Ferroseed and Empoleon although you could turn the situation around if you have enough Dragon Dances.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Kingdra has a limited movepool with only one purpose : Offensive. It has good coverage but nothing else worth noting. Granted it is outclassed by other bulky waters and has a niche for being one of the few offensive water-types. Anyway, for moves there is Yawn for sleep can can be used to get Dragon Dances up and can be used over Substitute but isn't as reliable due to random sleep turns. Scald is outclassed by Hydro Pump although the burn chance is tempting. Ice Beam is outclassed by other coverage moves like Hidden Power Electric and Agility is outclassed by rain but if you are using a Sunny Day team rain could hinder your team but it could also stop sand and hail which are more common.

    <p>Mixed Dragon Dance and Double Dance (Rain Dance and Dragon Dance) sets aren't viable enough to get mentioned in the main part of the analysis. THis is mainly due to the fact they are outclassed, useless or hard to set up so you should pass on them but they are there.

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Kingdra loses to Empoleon and Ferroseed all the time, Chansey on the special sets, Bulky Waters like Milotic and Registeel. Fighting types like Heracross, Lucario or Hitmonlee help take them out. It should be noted that if running a physical Kingdra a special Fighting-type has better synergy due to a mix of physical and special but you'll probably lose to Registeel.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You may recognise the thread as HuntoftheLion's thread with some alterations I added since it was in the Skeleton stage and had some contributions to it so feel free to comment on this analysis as Oglemi as let me take over it.
  2. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    In the overview, you say its movepool is both large and lacking. It can't be both.
  3. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Sorry, should proofread when combining 2 analyses but it is changed now
  4. jiggz16

    jiggz16

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    Technically it can be. If a pokemon's able to learn a lot of bad moves it's movepool is large, but still lacking in terms of usable options. But yeah, Kingdra's movepool is pretty sub-par in general.

    Is Double Dance really not worthy of it's own set? It functions kinda like Double Boosting Terrakion where you use the move that's appropriate at the time while really only needing its two STABs for coverage.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Being an experienced user of Kingdra myself (and the OP of the OU thread), Kingdra has much more room for options in a metagame with less weather-oriented threats and particular powerhouses to worry about.

    So it all boils down to this:

    First of all, Kingdra, overall, really has no use for a physical move on its Rain Dance sets in UU. Most targets are hit much harder with a Rain-boosted special Water-type move rather than Waterfall. I cannot imagine any potential targets that require Waterfall in UU. Even Chansey is hit pathetically with only a once-boosted Waterfall, and it can use status in return. In my experience, Rain Dance needs to be, literally, specialized.

    Rain Dance should probably look like this:

    name: Special Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Draco Meteor
    move 4: Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    This set basically runs through many offensive teams lacking a decent specially defensive Pokemon. With the given EV spread, no Scarfed base 100's, like Flygon, can outrun Kingdra when the Rain is up. Hydro Pump's the golden arrow, allowing you to OHKO many threats, while Surf is the usually more reliable option (in terms of accuracy, anyways). Draco Meteor is a big dump on anything that resists Hydro Pump, and in the last slot, choose an option between hitting Grass-types for super-effective damage or a nearly unresisted STAB move. The power of this set is astounding when you consider the fact that it OHKOes some of the most popular UU Pokemon with Hydro Pump, excluding Chansey and Empoleon. (Interesting fact: standard Registeel can be 2HKOed by Hydro Pump if it decides not to use Thunder Wave or other significantly harmful moves).

    The EVs on ChestoRest are also rather outdated due to the absence of Starmie in UU. The EVs originally allowed the survival of two Thunderbolt or Ice Beams from Life Orb Starmie. If anything, I would modify the EVs to attempt setting up in front of defensive Zapdos.

    Make Lum Berry the primary item option on the standard Dragon Dance set. Nothing is more serious than having a smart Registeel or Chansey user breaking all of your Substitutes and use status when you do try setting up. You can block status twice simply by using Substitute the following turn Lum Berry is consumed.

    I'll come back to see the analysis later.
  6. kaonohiokala

    kaonohiokala

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    We should keep in mind here that Water/Dragon is a nearly unresisted combo in UU. The only Pokemon who can resist it are Empoleon, Ferroseed, and Shedinja.

    Surf and Hydro Pump are unnecessary together on the Specs set. Due to how large of a threat Empoleon is in UU, a Hidden Power super-effective against it should be mentioned. Perhaps do something like this:

    move1: Draco Meteor
    move2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move3: Dragon Pulse
    move4: Surf / HP-Electric
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
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    Don't slash HP Fire on the Specs set, Ferroseed is not that common to warrant using it over HP Electric.

    Don't slash Dragon Pulse on the Rain Dance sweeper either, just mention it in AC.

    As for the EVs on the ChestoRest set (which the name should be btw), I don't really understand what you got going there. IMO just throw those SpD evs into HP and call it a day, but the other QCers can mess with that.

    [​IMG]

    QC 1/3
  8. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Changes made
  9. Snunch

    Snunch
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    QC APPROVED 2/3
  10. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    K that's cool

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    This is now written :D
  12. PokéMontage

    PokéMontage

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    <p>Kingdra is a welcome addition to UU, becoming arguably the most deadly dragon available in the tier. Its typing is a boon both offensively and defensively, granting it neutral coverage against everything bar Ferroseed and Empoleon in addition to possessing only one weakness to the uncommon Dragon-type. With balanced but solid stats all around, a limited but perfectly focused movepool, and tools such as Dragon Dance and Rain Dance, Kingdra can easily find itself sweeping through teams.</p>

    I only have enough time for the overview. Yours was a bit jumbled, so this is what I came up with. Feel free to use as little/as much of this as you please.
  13. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

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    Made some additions based on PokeMontage's post
  14. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
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    I'm locking this and moving it to L/O based on the recommendation from Fatecrashers and Honko. The quality is just not up to par, and judging from your last analyses that have gotten GP checks, you haven't tried to improve your writing.

    Whoever wants to take Kingdra will only have to rewrite what is in the OP.

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