Well it's moot anyways because it's just Waterfall / Agility now.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Kingdra: GP [1/2]
- Thread starter President Shinra
- Start date
- Status
waterfall is for florges i think, but agility is more useful for its ability to sweep teams. kingdra's typing and bulk are good enough for it to find 2 turns to set up.
also i think critdra is too good to be listed as the last slot. it's stronger than rain dance kingdra and has a much better shot at breaking through florges and umbreon. it also gets past bulky water-types with recovery unlike the current rain dance set.
also i think critdra is too good to be listed as the last slot. it's stronger than rain dance kingdra and has a much better shot at breaking through florges and umbreon. it also gets past bulky water-types with recovery unlike the current rain dance set.
K, Waterfall removed and CritDra moved right below Rain Dance.
Still looking for anyone QC to give it a read over and determine if it's ready.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
I recommend tagging QC members by doing Username, I'll do it for you FLCL Royalty Calloflochie Limitless radianthero156 Ernesto kokoloko Kushalos and all other QC members, Kingdra needs a QC check
Thanks, Ladybug.
The crit set should be the first set listed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the crit set usually uses Modest, not Timid. And besides, you have hasty for some reason.
The Dragon Dance set is a bit tricky, since there's two options you can go: Substitute with Leftovers and Rest with Lum Berry or Chesto. The problem in listing them both in one set is that the Substitute set "usually" runs a bit of bulk, whereas the Rest set doesn't. And even if the Substitute set didn't run extra bulk, it would still be played differently than the Rest set. I think you should split the two sets up honestly, but other opinions on this would be nice. But first off, you need to find a good spread for the Substitute set. I don't have one; maybe someone else does.
I'd actually put the Rain Dance set last, but that's just me. Probably doesn't matter, so long as the crit set is first.
Lastly, in the Counters section, don't list Raikou, Milotic, or Ditto, since no one uses them.
The Dragon Dance set is a bit tricky, since there's two options you can go: Substitute with Leftovers and Rest with Lum Berry or Chesto. The problem in listing them both in one set is that the Substitute set "usually" runs a bit of bulk, whereas the Rest set doesn't. And even if the Substitute set didn't run extra bulk, it would still be played differently than the Rest set. I think you should split the two sets up honestly, but other opinions on this would be nice. But first off, you need to find a good spread for the Substitute set. I don't have one; maybe someone else does.
I'd actually put the Rain Dance set last, but that's just me. Probably doesn't matter, so long as the crit set is first.
Lastly, in the Counters section, don't list Raikou, Milotic, or Ditto, since no one uses them.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
Because nobody uses them? That's no reason to exclude 3 entire Pokemon from C&C.
Yes it is.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
No it isn't. If QC applied that to every Pokemon in UU, we would be in big trouble. For example, let's look at my Starmie analysis. Milotic is #49 on the usage stats, so I'll use it as a benchmark. Here are all the Pokemon that would be removed from Starmie's checks & counters: Amoonguss, Milotic, Jellicent, Slowking, Kyurem, Gastrodon, Lanturn, Heliolisk, Hydreigon, Sableye, Shaymin, Jolteon, Sceptile, and Cacturne. THAT'S 14 POKEMON!!!!!! The Pokemon listed in UU shouldn't be listed because people use them often: they should be listed because they CAN CHECK OR COUNTER THAT SPECIFIC POKEMON, HENCE THE NAME.
Welp, that was stupid. Fixed.
Also fixed the stuff Limitless said above, except for the Resto-Chesto thing. In my testing, I found the Sub-DD set to be much more effective, so I put Resto-Chesto in the Other Options. I thought that was okay, given the fact that Kingdra has 3 main sets already.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
Could you put back Raikou, Milotic, and Ditto in C&C please? Just because they are lesser used doesn't detract from their ability to check/counter Kingdra as indicated by a previous post:
It's not about being common. The standard is, if a Pokemon has an analysis it is relevant and should be included in any other analysis it applies to. I get you're QC, but that's just how it normally works.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
Exactly. I know you're QC Limitless but it doesn't make a shred of difference if the Pokemon is #1 on the usage stats or #100, as long as it's viable and it checks/counters the Pokemon.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Oof it's about to go down
But Limitless I feel that you're just using your seniority/rank to back up your opinion. Secondly, Milotic and Raikou, and maybe even Ditto are pretty used, and they even got an analysis because of this. Analysis = relevant/used/common/mentioned. They should totally be kept, and I think you shouldn't lose your marbles just because someone who isn't QC is right.
But Limitless I feel that you're just using your seniority/rank to back up your opinion. Secondly, Milotic and Raikou, and maybe even Ditto are pretty used, and they even got an analysis because of this. Analysis = relevant/used/common/mentioned. They should totally be kept, and I think you shouldn't lose your marbles just because someone who isn't QC is right.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
I really am not trying to be rude - honest. I'm just saying that some of these Pokemon have some sort of niche that gives Kingdra trouble, and that they should at least be mentioned.
Why the fuck are you even arguing this .–.
Ditto is a good revenge killer (unless Sub of course) but it's nowhere near common to be listed, that's scraping the bottom of the jar. We're not listing Ditto in every analysis where it can rk so I dunno why we should do here.
Raikou is a cool mon and it definitely should be listed...if it was actually a good answer. I doubt Scarf Kou actually KOes Kingdra anyway, not that it's common or anything.
Milotic is ugh. I guess it can kinda check with Haze, but it's not gonna be liking taking +1 Outrages or crit Dracos before Hazing. D-Tail doesn't break the Subs so it's gonna need Ice Beam for that, otherwise it's just a stalemate and I'm not sure it can even win it (OK it prolly can but it's not good enough).
I understand Milo was an answer last gen but I still don't like it, I'd use Slowking most of the time for the same purpose. It'd be the only one of the three actually worthy of a mention though.
Ditto is a good revenge killer (unless Sub of course) but it's nowhere near common to be listed, that's scraping the bottom of the jar. We're not listing Ditto in every analysis where it can rk so I dunno why we should do here.
Raikou is a cool mon and it definitely should be listed...if it was actually a good answer. I doubt Scarf Kou actually KOes Kingdra anyway, not that it's common or anything.
Milotic is ugh. I guess it can kinda check with Haze, but it's not gonna be liking taking +1 Outrages or crit Dracos before Hazing. D-Tail doesn't break the Subs so it's gonna need Ice Beam for that, otherwise it's just a stalemate and I'm not sure it can even win it (OK it prolly can but it's not good enough).
I understand Milo was an answer last gen but I still don't like it, I'd use Slowking most of the time for the same purpose. It'd be the only one of the three actually worthy of a mention though.
Is this QC ready now after the whole C&C thing?
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
The only reason why I suggested Raikou as check in the first place is because it is probably the most solid revenge killer towards Kingdra there is since it outspeeds all neutral speed Kingdra under rain and Kingdra is usually in range of Tbolt after its needed turn of set up since it is usually best to stay in and attack Kingdra rather than risk giving it a free turn to set up Rain Dance, Focus Energy or a DD / Sub. The Rain Dance set's Life Orb will also more than likely bring Kingdra in Raikou's range before it has caused too much havoc. It should be listed dead last if not close to it but I still think it should be listed since Kingdra resists what little priority there is, and can play games with Sucker Punch since it will almost always be carrying a non attacking move.
Edit:
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 142-168 (48.7 - 57.7%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
Last edited:
- Status