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Kingdra (QC 2/2) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Eraddd, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    [Overview]

    <p>It seems that Kingdra has been given all the tools it needs in order to thrive in the VGC 2012 metagame. An ability in Swift Swim that boosts its Speed in rain, a great Water- and Dragon-typing, a reliable spread move in Surf that’s further boosted by the rain and reasonable bulk all allow Kingdra to be an effective teammate in this weather-dominated metagame. However, Kingdra lives and dies with Rain Dance on the field, so it is essential that you use Politoed to set up rain, and allow it to survive as long as possible in order to replenish the rain that will inevitably be negated by other weather inducing opponents.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Kingdra
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
    move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Haban Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kingdra has plenty of options to use for its Water-type STAB attack; however, Surf and Hydro Pump are probably the best options. Surf allows Kingdra to attack both opponents at the same time while gaining a power boost in the rain. However, Surf will hit Kingdra’s teammate as well; knowing this, it is crucial that Kingdra’s teammate either resists or is immune to Water-type attacks, or casts Protect on that respective turn. Hydro pump is another option, allowing Kingdra to target one single opponent without hitting its own teammate on the field; however, the lowered accuracy makes it unreliable in crucial situations, so one might want to opt for Surf instead. Dragon Pulse acts as its secondary STAB attack, giving it excellent coverage, which is only resisted by Empoleon. Draco Meteor may be used over Dragon Pulse for raw power; however, the Special Attack drop cripples Kingdra immensely. Therefore, because switching in and out is rather difficult in this present metagame, it is recommended that Dragon Pulse be used over Draco Meteor. Ice Beam is used to hit Parasect, Amoonguss and other Grass-type opponents super effectively. Hidden Power Electric may also be used in this slot in order to hit opposing Water-type enemies. Finally, Protect is used in the fourth slot, allowing Kingdra to protect itself against a powerful attack for one turn. </p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is used for maximum damage output, which is especially important when using spread moves such as Surf. As Kingdra is usually used offensively, Life Orb is probably the best choice for it. However, Haban Berry can be used instead to negate Kingdra’s only weakness, giving Kingdra a greater degree of survivability and an opportunity to KO the enemy in return. However, beware that a Latios using a Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor will still KO Kingdra through Haban Berry.</p>

    <p>252 Special Attack EVs are obvious since this set’s main focus is dealing as much damage as possible in the rain. 252 Speed EVs are used to outspeed almost everything in this metagame, allowing Kingdra to become an offensive monster in the rain. However, 196 Speed EVs may be used instead in order to outspeed Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp in the rain, while the rest of the EVs can be invested into HP for additional bulk; be warned though, as a Jolly Choice Scarf Terrakion, a +2 Jolly Blaziken, a +2 Modest Yanmega, and weather abusers, such as Kabutops, will be able to outspeed Kingdra. Thus, it is recommended that one runs 252 Speed EVs instead.</p>


    team options
    <p>Politoed is probably Kingdra's most important teammate. Its ability to set up eternal rain on the field, as well as its resistance to Surf, makes it invaluable to Kingdra, not to mention the team as a whole. Toxicroak also makes a great teammate, as it is able to set up Rain Dance, while also being able to take advantage of it and Water-type attacks from its teammates due to its Dry Skin ability. Furthermore, it can take down Tyranitar, one of the biggest counters to rain due to its ability to cancel out rain with its Sand Stream ability. Finally, Toxicroak's ability to Taunt Trick Room users and access to STAB Drain Punch to take out Ferrothorn, another great rain counter, make it invaluable. Gastrodon also is a great teammate, obtaining a Special Attack boost when hit by any Water-type attack with its Storm Drain ability. Furthermore, its ability to check Trick Room teams with its abysmal Speed stat makes it further useful. Finally, a teammate who can resist Dragon-type attacks aimed at Kingdra will lengthen Kingdra's survivability by quite a bit. Metagross is perfect for this; it resists Dragon-type attacks, while sporting Ice Punch to take out the offending Dragon-type enemy. Metagross's weakness to Fire-type attacks is also mitigated by rain.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Kingdra's movepool outside of these moves isn't very deep, but there are a few other options. Rain Dance can take precedence over one of its moves, allowing Kingdra to bring forth rain onto the field manually if the weather has been changed the previous turn. Hidden Power Fire outside of the rain can be used in order to take out Abomasnow and Ferrothorn; beware that Hidden Power Fire in the rain will be considerably weakened, however. Scald or Muddy Water can be used as Kingdra's STAB Water-type attack, with Scald having a chance to burn, and Muddy Water a chance for an accuracy drop. Substitute is an option for those who are wary about status moves; it also allows Kingdra to outpredict its opponent and set up a Substitute when the opponent attempts to Protect against Kingdra's attacks. Finally, Disable may seem like a gimmicky option, but it allows Kingdra to shut down a Dragon-type attack from an enemy quite easily due to Kingdra's alarming Speed in rain. Simply Protect on the first turn while the enemy uses its Dragon-type attack, and Disable on the next turn to prevent the enemy from firing off its previous attack.</p>

    <p>Kingdra has the option of using a Water or Dragon Gem, both which give a one time boost to Kingdra's STAB attacks. Water Gem in particular, coupled with STAB and rain on the field, has the potential of making Kingdra's Surf attack incredibly powerful. Absorb Bulb can also work if your teammate is also using Surf, and since Kingdra is 4x resistant to Water-type attacks, it takes miniscule damage and receives a Special Attack Boost.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned above, opposing weather shifting Pokemon are the greatest threat to Kingdra, as they bring down Kingdra's Speed stat down to mediocre levels and weaken its Water-type attacks. Tyranitar is one of the most popular weather changing Pokemon with its Sand Stream ability; the Sandstorm that it brings onto the field will also increase Tyranitar's Special Defense, so beware. Ninetales's Drought brings forth eternal sun, further crippling Kingdra's Water-type attacks. Any Dragon-type enemy who can either survive an attack from Kingdra, or outspeed Kingdra outside of rain will also check it nicely. Garchomp and Latios fit the bill perfectly, as both outspeed Kingdra outside of the rain and can also carry a Haban Berry to survive a Dragon-type attack from Kingdra and KO back, assuming Kingdra is not holding a Haban Berry itself. Paralysis also damns Kingdra for the majority of the game since Kingdra relies on its Speed stat to thrive in this metagame. Finally, Ferrothorn, while not a common threat, takes miniscule damage from all of Kingdra's attacks, except for Ice Beam, and can deal major damage with its STAB Power Whip.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Kingdra gets Damp as its Dream World ability. Needless to say, Swift Swim is infinitely more useful than this. Kingdra relies on its extremely high Speed stat to be successful in this metagame, and furthermore, Explosion, with its nerf in the 5th Generation, is not as prevalent as it was in the previous VGC metagames.</p>
  2. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    Have at it QC
  3. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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  4. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

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    No muddy water? Not every rain team has a team chock full of water resist mons and accuracy drop can be useful.


    Ice beam has overlapping coverage with water and dragon. No need for it.

    Toxic and hp electric should be where icebeams at.
  5. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    @Voodoo Pimp: Mistake. Fixed

    @ soul survivor: Muddy Water's accuracy is slightly iffy for me (but better than Hydro Pump I guess) and yeah, accuracy drop is useful. I'm going to have to ask QC if they think Muddy Water should be slashed over Hydro Pump

    HP Electric would work, but Toxic I'm iffy about, since VGC matches don't usually last a long time. I think Disable would work much better over Toxic, but that's just my own experience.
  6. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    A few points about Hidden Power Fire on Kingdra:

    -It can OHKO 252 HP Abomasnow, assuming no Occa or Sash, of course.
    -It can be a good surprise against enemy Ferrothorn. Based on the one in the Smogon Analysis (252 HP, 108SDef) it does 83.98-99.45% of its HP leaving it in range of KO by most other attacks.
    -KOs Shedinja. Which can be pretty nice, but Toxic is probably better at it.
    -Obviously, HP Fire is weakened by your own Rain, so it use it with caution
  7. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

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    toxic is just for the rare shedninja. Sorry for not including that part haha.
  8. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    If you run an Absorb Bulb on your Partner(Or your Partner has Dry Skin or Storm Drain) you don't really need to reconsider Surf and Muddy Water. Sure Hydro Pump can give you more power, but from experience I get WAAAY too many matches where I lose due to missing with Moves Like Hydro Pump and Fire Blast. Surf and Muddy water each have their perks so it's the users call.

    Kingdra can not only abuse the weather, but it can also help keep it alive or win weather wars against Sun or Sand teams.

    If you really want to put an HP as an option you should highly consider maybe doing Psychic. This years VGC will be pooring with rain, meaning you will also see the Rain Abuser and Counter, Toxicroak. I'm not 100% sure, but if I recall HP Psychic from Kingdra can take out Toxicroak to help keep vital rain elements alive like Ludicolo.

    Idk what you guys think, but this is like my first post for analysis so mock as you like xD
  9. voodoo pimp

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    Timid Kingdra with no item does 96% - 115% against 252/0 Toxicroak. Probably worth a mention at the very least.
  10. Dez Moines

    Dez Moines

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    there is no point in running speed EVs
  11. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    Not quite true. Having no speed EVs in Kingdra leaves it vulnerable to Choice Scarf users, and Icy Wind. Not to mention it will be outrun by other Swift Swimmers.

    If you aren't worried about those things, then you can go ahead and have 252 in HP. But you will have to keep in mind that you are not safely faster than everything.
  12. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Actually, by only dropping 20 Speed EVs, Kingdra only ties with +2 Yanmega in the rain (or ties with +0 outside rain. Since Kingdra can't OHKO Yanmega and Bug Buzz does a ton in return, it's pretty important, and that's just a quick example. Of course you can add EVs to HP to take more hits if you feel Kingdra really needs the extra bulk to survive a particular hit, but Kingdra's Speed over other Swift Swimmers is one of the main reasons it's usable at all.

    Also, Life Orb Draco Meteor easily OHKOes Toxicroak, while non-Life orb does 94.3% - 111.3%, which is a 66% chance to KO discounting accuracy. HP Psychic is kinda completely pointless outside of Croak, and when Draco Meteor KOes anyway, there's hardly a reason to use HP Psychic at all.
  13. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    True, but HP Psychic doesn't drop your SpA. Sure, it's not a great option, but it does have a use if your team has a lot of trouble with the frog.
  14. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    way too many slashes, haha. this is the biggest problem with rain sweepers: deciding between 1 of 3 or 4 stab water moves. I would like to see this set, if only for neatness' sake.

    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
    move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Haban Berry

    add toxicroak to team options. it takes out ttar, taunts TR, absorbs surfs, drain punches ferrothorns. ice beam should be the primary set if only for amoonguss / parasect / grass mon that makes rain teams cry inside. moving scald (accuracy) and muddy water (luck heh) to oo would be a good choice i think. type gems in oo too (theyre all pretty good, but no 457843 slashes please ;_;)
  15. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    @Cosmicexplorer, agreed with everything. I would say the minimum Speed EVs one should run with Kingdra is enough to outspeed Jolly Scarf Chomp.

    @Voodoo Pimp, I feel that there are better options to take out Toxicroak, without sacrificing coverage.

    @Muffinhead, but I love my slashes ;_;. I'm still slightly iffy on Ice Beam, as it gets redundant coverage (well it does do neutral damage to Ferrothorn, and hits Grass-types super effectively). But yeah, Amoonguss and Parasect are both pretty big I guess.
  16. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    yes, strong

    qc 1 / 2
  17. Solace

    Solace darling i'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
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    QC 2/2

    when it rains it pours
  18. Huy

    Huy INSTANT BALLS
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    Rain Dance is nice to reset the rain in case Politoed goes down.
  19. cartercr

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    I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of it. Absorb Bulb works well if you take a surf from a partner. That'll raise your SpA and then let you start a huge assault.
  20. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    Absorb bulb will be going into OO. I'm still iffy on the item though, since it's sometimes a crap shoot. I still think Haban Berry is a much better item, looking back when I used it.
  21. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I completely agree with the effectiveness of Haban, it's been ridiculously useful for me as well, allowing Kingdra to take hits from dragons like Latios which annoy most rain teams, while retaliating (and probably KOing) with its own powerful Dragon-type STAB.
  22. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    cosmic knows what's up. Usually it'll be a Latios with a Life Orb or Scarf, who try to KO with Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, which Kingdra survives, and promptly KOs with its Dragon Pulse.

    Usually teams will try to switch the weather before trying to counter with Dragon-type moves with the likes of Garchomp, Salamence, etc, who are all faster than Kingdra. It's good to have that fallback, where you can assuredly survive, while taking their own out.
  23. NidokingKing

    NidokingKing

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    I forget, does absorb bulb nullify damage or just raise SpAtk. If it nullifies the damage, I could see a specially offensive pokemon who takes ridiculous damage from surf (Infernape, etc.) as a good partner.

    EDIT: Never mind, just ignore this.
  24. cartercr

    cartercr

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    No, it only raises the SpA. You will still take damage from the attack.
  25. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    This is why I like Rain Dance! Make sure to mention that Latios's Dragon Gem Draco Meteor OHKOes through Haban, since that set is rather popular.

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