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Kingdra [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Mazz, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    [pimg]230[/pimg]
    Kingdra
    Credit to whoever wrote the original analysis. I'll try to find out the exact user.

    <p>After a successful bout in Underused so far during BW, Kingdra returns to the tier having gained nothing but new opponents from BW2. Nevertheless, its unique Water / Dragon typing and good stats allow Kingdra to remain a lethal force in the tier. Part of this is due to its ability to use Rain Dance, doubling its Speed thanks to Swift Swim, and Dragon Dance, boosting both Kingdra's Attack and Speed stats, two highlights in a shallow movepool, These two moves allow Kingdra to outspeed its new nemeses and rough them up with powerful STAB moves, not to mention it becomes one of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier. Kingdra is a Pokemon you must prepare for if you want a successful UU team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The staple set from DPP returns as one of Kingdra's best sets in the BW2 UU tier. With new status inducers such as Amoonguss, and constant threats such as Sableye and Xatu becoming increasingly popular in the tier, the use of Substitute gives Kingdra more than enough time to set up and become a powerhouse. While behind a Substitute, Kingdra can use Dragon Dance to increase its Attack and Speed. With the EV distribution, two Dragon Dances will ensure that Kingdra outspeeds the entire tier, leaving it free to smash the opponent with Waterfall or Outrage, both of which are powerful STAB moves that gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier, with only Empoleon and Ferroseed resisting the combination.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you don't fear status and are willing to rely on Substitute alone to block it, Leftovers may be used over a Lum Berry to recover Kingdra's HP. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim because Rain Dance teams are fairly scarce in the Underused tier. This allows Kingdra to basically guarantee an OHKO with a critical hit because the multiplier is boosted from 2x to 3x. As Empoleon is the number one go-to check to Kingdra in the Underused tier, Kingdra appreciates having it removed by Electric- or Fighting-type partners such as Raikou or Heracross, respectively. Entry hazard support from Steel-type Pokemon such as Bronzong is also appreciated, as it breaks any potential Focus Sashes and allows for more collective damage to be spread if Kingdra should ever find itself unboosted or at +1. Rapid Spin support from Cryogonal or Hitmontop is vital for this set if Lum Berry is being used, as Kingdra's HP will be in low supply as it is, and won't want to be losing 37% of its overall HP upon switching in.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Draco Meteor
    move 4: Dragon Pulse / Surf
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Taking on a much more immediate sweeping role from a specially attacking perspective, Kingdra also runs an effective Rain Dance set that functions well on its own or on a Rain Dance team. Rain Dance doubles Kingdra's Speed and boosts its Water-type STAB, giving it the ability to outspeed and 2HKO or OHKO a vast majority of the UU tier. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the STAB moves that are going to be generally spammed, as the two of them gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier. The last slot is useful for picking off weakened threats, and both moves are useful in certain situations. Dragon Pulse is useful so that Kingdra does not need to immediately suffer the sharp drop in Special Attack, and Surf is useful because it still hits hard in rain and has better accuracy and PP than Hydro Pump.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Electric or Hidden Power Fighting can be used in the fourth moveslot to gain a solid hit on Empoleon, but a rain-boosted Hydro Pump does nearly the same amount of damage, so it isn't recommended. Because this set relies on Special Attack, it prefers that special walls such as Snorlax and Porygon2 are removed by a Fighting-type ally such as Heracross or Mienshao. The same goes for Empoleon, who is the number one hard counter to this set, as it has very good Special Defense and resists both of Kingdra's STABs. A strong Electric- or Fighting-type such as Raikou or Heracross respectively, are great teammates to help Kingdra out with Empoleon. Since this set will force a lot of switches, entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong is appreciated, as the residual damage will make Kingdra's job of sweeping much easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Rain Dance / Draco Meteor
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant / Lonely
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When Kingdra opts to use both of its setup moves in Rain Dance and Dragon Dance, a menacing sweeper is born. It's much more immediately powerful than other sets, especially the ChestoRest set, but is much more vulnerable to status. The Speed boosts from both Rain Dance and a Dragon Dance leave Kingdra nigh impossible to keep up with, and priority moves are one of the few options for damaging this set. After a Rain Dance and a single Dragon Dance, Waterfall becomes a very devastating move, crushing anything that doesn't resist it. Much goes the same for Outrage, obliterating anything that isn't a Steel-type. Draco Meteor is a viable option over Rain Dance, as even with no investment, it will still be heavily damaging Pokemon like Slowbro or other physically defensive Pokemon that can stomach an Outrage or two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If using Draco Meteor over Rain Dance, a Lonely or Naughty nature should be used so it can hit as hard as possible without investment. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim if Rain Dance is not being used, powering up Kingdra's critical hits. Prankster Sableye is a major issue for this set, and appreciates having a strong sweeper immune to Will-O-Wisp such as Victini or Darmanitan remove it. This variant of Kingdra pairs well with another cleaner, such as Choice Scarf Moxie Heracross, as it will tear holes in the opposing team, leaving Heracross to quickly pick up the pieces and gain Attack boosts. This set also appreciates entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong, as it will be forcing a lot of switches, and the additional damage upon switching in will leave many opponents vulnerable to an OHKO.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Surf
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This variant of Kingdra puts sweeping aside for the purpose of wallbreaking, considering not much in the tier wants to be toying around with a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice, removing whatever doesn't resist it or carry a large amount of special bulk from the face of the earth. Hydro Pump functions similarly as a powerful STAB move, but doesn't suffer from the drop in Special Attack like Draco Meteor does. Dragon Pulse is a powerful backup STAB move that can be used to pick off weakened opponents instead of wasting Kingdra's Special Attack stat to Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Electric is a handy coverage move that deals considerable damage to the bulky Water-types in the tier and the occasional Flying-type that Kingdra finds itself up against, but unless they resist Draco Meteor, two Hidden Powers will always be outdamaged by two Draco Meteors. Surf is an acceptable STAB option over either Hydro Pump or Hidden Power Electric, being used much how Dragon Pulse is, which is to damage opponents while preserving Hydro Pump's low PP or if you can't afford a miss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of the scarcity of Rain Dance throughout the Underused tier, Sniper is a perfectly usable option over Swift Swim, boosting up Kingdra's critical hits to absurdly powerful levels. A Timid nature may be used to tie other positively natured base 85 Speed Pokemon, such as Nidoking or Heracross, but will see a hefty drop in overall power. Signal Beam may be used over Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power Electric to gain additional coverage on Pokemon such as Shaymin or Azelf, but is generally not recommended as the STAB Draco Meteor will be hitting harder. Because of its power, this set doesn't need to rely on having special walls removed, rather just weakened. All variants of Porygon2 are 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, and Snorlax takes around 40% from Hydro Pump. Entry hazard support from Rhyperior and Frosslass is still appreciated, as it turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With status moves being in high supply in the Underused tier, a ChestoRest set greatly aids Kingdra in pulling off a sweep. The goal of this set is to accumulate as many boosts as possible, use Rest to heal whatever damage or status Kingdra may have taken, then begin smashing your opponent. This set excels late-game when most Steel-types are weakened or removed, and other strong threats are out of play, but can be used early on to open holes for other sweepers. Dragon Dance boosts Kingdra's Attack and Speed stats, turning it into a very capable sweeper, outspeeding the entire tier after two boosts. Backed by STAB, Waterfall and Outrage accumulate a lot of power after two or more Dragon Dance boosts, proceeding to OHKO or 2HKO nearly the entire tier. Rest, as mentioned, recovers HP and eliminates status, giving Kingdra a new lease on a sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Waterfall can be dropped for Sleep Talk so that Kingdra can gain additional opportunities to Rest and set up on Pokemon such as Slowbro, but this leaves Kingdra walled by Steel-types. Sniper can be used in place of Swift Swim simply because of how rare Rain Dance teams are and that the Speed boost may not be found; this powers up Kingdra's critical hits, decimating anything they touch. This set greatly appreciates having Empoleon and users phazing moves removed by powerful attackers such as Raikou or Heracross, as Empoleon walls this set cold and generally carries Roar, removing Kingdra's boosts. Entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Roserade and Bronzong is also greatly appreciated, as it weakens many of Kingdra's checks, and allowing for easier sweeps.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Hidden Power Electric wherever applicable to ensure a super effective hit on Ferroseed along with a super effective hit on Empoleon. However, Ferroseed's usage is fairly low, and should not warrant that much attention. Ice Beam can be used to hit Grass-and Flying-types hard, but the coverage offered alongside its Dragon-type STAB is relatively redundant. Kingdra is capable of running a mixed set consisting of Outrage, Draco Meteor, Waterfall, and Hydro Pump, but splitting its offenses is generally not recommended. Kingdra could run a Choice Band set of Outrage, Waterfall, Return, and Iron Head, but Flygon is a better Choice Band user, as its movepool supports a Choice Band better than Kingdra's does. A support set with moves such as Yawn, Clear Smog, and Scald is possible, as Kingdra has the bulk to pull it off, but lacks viable recovery.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Flygon is one of the most capable checks to Kingdra, as it threatens variants below +2 Speed, easily outspeeding and KOing with Outrage. Both Empoleon and Ferroseed hard counter any sets lacking Hidden Power Electric or Fighting, respectively, and the former can phaze Kingdra while the latter can set hazards up on it. Toxic Spikes can limit Kingdra's staying power and force it to use Rest prematurely, making it easier to break down; Roserade and Qwilfish can set them up. Strong attacks from faster Pokemon, such as Superpower from Choice Scarf Darmanitan, put a hefty dent in Kingdra's HP, making it vulnerable to priority moves. Milotic and Cofagrigus have the bulk to take on just about anything Kingdra can throw at it while recovering any damage taken with Recover or Pain Split, and Hazing away boosts, however the latter will not want to be taking a Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump. Specially attacking sets, bar the Choice Specs set to a certain extent, are shut down by the likes of Snorlax and Porygon2. Arguably the most reliable counter for a setup Kingdra, Imposter Ditto, can use Kingdra's boosts against it, outspeed it, and revenge kill it with its own attacks, but if Kingdra is behind a Substitute, it will die before it can KO.</p>
  2. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Kingdra needs to have enough speed to outrun Scarf Mienshao at +2 (255 Spe).

    The RD set's slashes should be:

    -Rain Dance
    -Hydro Pump
    -Dragon Pulse / Surf
    -Draco Meteor

    HP Electric is useless because rain-boosted Hydro Pump hits water types almost as hard (135 BP v. 140). Running dual water STAB might seem silly, but is viable for the same reason (resisted Hydro Pump in the rain is as strong as neutral Dragon Pulse) although in practice Dragon Pulse is usually better. Draco Meteor is non-negotiable; it's your best way of getting past bulky waters and grasses.

    Needs "Offensive Dragon Dance"

    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Adamant
    252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Waterfall
    -Rain Dance / Draco Meteor

    The extra attack investment and Life Orb give it a hell of a punch: 50.3% - 59.4% from Outrage at +1 to max HP Empoleon, an ohko on 4/0 Shaymin and standard Snorlax with +1 Outrage, and 70%+ to most bulky waters in the tier at +1. You can also just spam LO Outrages to 2hko things like Blastoise before they can phaze, and you can use Draco Meteor to massively dent Slowbro on the switch, forcing something else on their team to eat Outrage.

    This kingdra will leave huge, gaping holes in an opponent's team, so use it in tandem with a good cleaner. Use Lonely / Naughty with Draco Meteor. Speed boosting natures are an AC mention (ties scarfcross).
  3. Mazz

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    It's a jump of 24 Speed EVs. I'll take them out of HP then.

    HP Electric is specifically there for Empoleon, which does more than the Rain boosted Hydro Pump, carries more PP, and has perfect accuracy. I know that running that spread is standard practice, but doesn't it make more sense to carry something for Empoleon rather than just hope for four accurate hits? Should I just put the Hidden Power in the AC for that set? It just doesn't add up to me why not having the one attack that's going to safely get Kingdra through its number one check is the better decision here.

    I'll add the set, but I'm going to mention that Kingdra really doesn't have the bulk for a double-dance set, which has been made mention of in previous analyses. I also feel this set is more or less outclassed by the ChestoRest set, simply because status, most notably a burn, really hurts this set, where that issue isn't as large with with the other set. Maybe it's just me. Opinions?

    So yeah, some additional clarification on exactly why HP Electric shouldn't be used on the RD set would be nice.
  4. Espo

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    Because rain boosted Hydro Pump does 180 while HP Electic does 140 to Empoleon.

    Edit: nvm it does 135. Still there is ice beam which would be more useful.
  5. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Detailed Result:
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Kingdra (+SpAtk) Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Empoleon (+SpDef) : 32.26% - 37.9%
    3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Detailed Result:
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Kingdra (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Electric vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Empoleon (+SpDef) : 34.41% - 40.32%
    3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Hydro Pump is on the top, Hidden Power Electric on the bottom. Yes, they're almost the same damage output, but HPE has 3 times the amount of PP and perfect accuracy. At this point, I'm waiting to see if it should just be an AC mention or not, because arguing 2% damage with two other factors is really stupid.
  6. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I know why HP Electric is there, I am telling you that it's not useful because it's only 5 BP stronger than Kingdra's water STAB against Empoleon. Empoleon is going to be phazing you as soon as it comes in anyway, so you're not getting 4 hits on it regardless. Using HP Electric over Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse / Surf is an inefficient choice.

    At +1, offensive DD is stronger than +2 ChestoRest kingdra. Yeah it's more vulnerable to status and what-not, but the biggest problem with ChestoRest is that it doesn't work that well against bulky-offensive teams, which hit kingdra enough with direct damage that it can't really boost fast enough to sweep through them, or have scarfers that can stop the relatively slow chestorest variant. For example, chestorest kingdra can't beat the standard offensive tank swampert (a common staple on bulky offense teams) one on one, because Earthquake does too much damage and Kingdra is too weak to KO at +1. Offensive DD Kingdra also takes a lot of damage from EQ, but ohkos back immediately with Outrage. Same goes for Pokemon like Shaymin and Togekiss. It also potentially has rain dance to outrun every common scarfer.
  7. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    I'm assuming that's a no to the AC mention then. I'll change that around then.

    Makes enough sense. I'll make mention of the details somewhere in the set comments.

    Thanks for clearing those up for me.
  8. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    ChestoRest is definitely not the best set in this metagame, so it should not be listed first. We should also work on finding a better EV spread for it, since the one that's in the OP is pretty outdated and I'm pretty sure no one even knows what it does anymore.

    Anyway, the Rain Dance set should run enough Speed to beat Scarf Mienshao while the Dragon Dance sets (as in, all of them) should run at least that much, but I'm thinking more. There's a couple things you miss out on beating at +1 by only running 196 Spe on Dragon Dance sets; namely Weavile and max Speed Crobat (important, especially since a CB set is going on-site soon). Unless someone finds some use for the extra bulk those EVs bring, I'm actually leaning towards a 252/4/252 spread, since it'll also let Kingdra tie non-Scarf Nidoking and Heracross (who also run a neutral nature in their analyses).

    Anyway, sets!

    You're missing what I think is the best set at the moment--SubDD (Lum Berry / Leftovers). I don't like the idea of having three different Dragon Dance sets, but they all play differently and are viable, so yeah...

    As for set order, I'm thinking:

    1. SubDD or Offensive Dragon Dance
    2. SubDD or Offensive Dragon Dance or Rain Dance
    3. Offensive Dragon Dance or Rain Dance
    4. Choice Specs
    5. ChestoRest

    but I don't really feel too strongly about set order.
  9. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    In my opinion, this should be the set order:

    1. SubDD
    2. Rain Dance
    3. Offensive Dragon Dance
    4. Choice Specs
    5. Chesto Rest

    I have based this on the functionality of the set and how often it's actually used by players (I mean good ones) Probably my bias influences the order a bit but I tried to be as objective as possible.

    Also, some nitpicks:

    Chesto Rest: It isn't just a late game sweeper, it can act as a ''breaker'' for other partners, even if in that case you're probably better off using Offensive DD. But it can work pretty well on midgame too so don't say ''it only works late game''

    Rain Dance: mention it can actually get past Porygon2 / Snorlax.

    Choice Specs: Hydro Pump 2HKOes Offensive / Physically Defensive Porygon2 and it deals 40% to Snorlax, you may want to add that since it's pretty huge.
  10. Mazz

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    I'll move the sets around then. I figure something like 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe would suffice like you mentioned elsewheres in your post. The loss in HP really doesn't bother Kingdra, considering it doesn't take a boatload of hits anyways. this allows it to hit hard and remain fast.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that spread would suit Kingdra better. The bulk doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for it. 196 Spe will guarantee that Kingdra outspeeds max Speed Scarf Mienshao, but taking 36 EVs from HP really only leaves the remaining 52 as more or less wasted EVs. Should I just throw all of the HP EVs on the Rain Dance set into Speed, or leave it as 52 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe?

    I think I'll just use what Destiny posted below. It's basically the same order you put, and it leaves for somewhat of a consensus. To be honest, I really didn't think that set order mattered. Learned something new today.

    I'll run that order. Kokoloko had the same order basically, so it would seem about right.

    I'll make mention of those details then. Thanks.
  11. kokoloko

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    I'm not sure to be honest. You should try running some calcs against Pokemon Kingdra commonly runs into to see if the 52 HP actually does anything; otherwise you might as well just put them in Speed.

    The Offensive Dragon Dance set should have the appropriate nature slashed next to Adamant, since you have Draco Meteor slashed. Also, every non-Rain Dance set shouldn't have a specific ability tag, tbh, since it's not like Rain is common enough to warrant /always/ using Swift Swim. With Sniper, whenever Kingdra does land a critical hit, it'll absolutely destroy everything, so its utility is about the same.
  12. Mazz

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    After I ran some calculations, all the 52 HP EVs are doing are reducing the blow from opposing attacks by 2% or 3% damage, which I personally don't believe is necessary. Life Orb is already going to be doing 10% every turn Kingdra deals damage, and Kingdra really only needs to take a turn's worth of damage before it outspeeds basically everything in UU. The extra Speed seems more important to me, giving Kingdra the ability to at least tie with other neutral base 85's when it sets rain up.

    I'll add the Sniper and nature slash-ins then. To be honest, I completely overlooked Sniper.
  13. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    One last nitpick - Modest / Timid on Specs, not Timid / Modest.

    Also, I'm fine with max Speed being the standard on the Rain Dance set if there really isn't anything specific the 52 HP EVs do, so unless another QC member feels otherwise, feel free to change it.

    QC Approved 1/3
  14. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Made that change, and thanks.
  15. Nas

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    I'd suggest moving the 52 HP EVs to speed on the Rain Dance set, there are enough base 85's that run max Speed and neutral natures that Kingdra would benefit from outpacing. (Even in Rain, you'll lose to an enemy Kingdra that is running max speed)

    QC Approved 2/3
  16. Mazz

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    Alright. Will do. Thanks.
  17. PK Gaming

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    Don't forget to mention Ditto as a top notch Kingdra check (not only that, but Ditto can use Kingdras boosts against the opponent and its mere existence deters Kingdra from setting up DDs)

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  18. Mazz

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    Ah yes. I shall definitely do that. Thanks.
  19. complete legitimacy

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    Amateur check.

    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>After a successful bout in Underused so far during BW, Kingdra returns to the tier having gained nothing but new opponents from BW2. Nevertheless, its unique Water / Dragon typing and decent (i would really recommend a different word here, i know kingdra doesnt have any exceptional stats but even "good" works better here imo) stats allow Kingdra to remain a lethal force in the tier. Part of this is due to its access to both Rain Dance (mention the use of swift swim in conjunction with this) and Dragon Dance, two highlights in a shallow movepool, allowing Kingdra to outspeed its new nemeses and rough them up with powerful STAB moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The staple set from DPP returns as one of Kingdra's best sets in the BW2 Underused tier. With new status inducers such as Amoonguss, and constant threats such as Sableye and Xatu becoming increasingly popular in the tier, the use of Substitute gives Kingdra more than enough time to set up and become a powerhouse. While behind a Substitute, Kingdra can use Dragon Dance to increase its Attack and Speed. With the EV distribution, two Dragon Dances will ensure that Kingdra outspeeds the entire tier, leaving it free time to smash the opponent with Waterfall or Outrage, both of which are powerful STAB moves that gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier, with only Empoleon resisting the combination (mention Ferroseed y/n)</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you don't fear status and are willing to rely on Substitute alone to block it, Leftovers may be used over a Lum Berry to recover Kingdra's HP. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim because Rain Dance teams are fairly scarce in the Underused tier. This allows Kingdra to basically guarantee an OHKO with a critical hit because the multiplier is boosted from 2x to 3x. Because Empoleon is the number one go-to check to Kingdra in the Underused tier, Kingdra appreciates having it removed by Electric- or Fighting-type partners such as Raikou or Heracross. Entry hazard support from Steel-type Pokemon such as Bronzong is also appreciated, as it breaks any potential Focus Sashes and allows for more collective damage to be spread if Kingdra should ever find itself unboosted or at +1. Rapid Spin support from Cryogonal or Hitmontop is vital for this set if Lum Berry is being used, as Kingdra's HP will be in low supply as it is, and won't want to be losing 37% of its overall HP upon switching in, as it greatly reduces Kingdra's staying power.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Draco Meteor
    move 4: Dragon Pulse / Surf
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Taking on a much more immediate sweeping role from a specially attacking perspective, Kingdra also runs an effective Rain Dance set that functions well on its own or on a Rain Dance team. Rain Dance doubles Kingdra's Speed and boosts its Water-type STAB, giving it the ability to outspeed and 2HKO or OHKO a vast majority of the Underused tier. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the STAB moves that are going to be generally spammed, as the two of them gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier. The last slot is useful for picking off weakened threats, and both moves are useful in certain situations. Dragon Pulse is useful so that Kingdra does not need to immediately suffer the sharp drop in Special Attack, and Surf is useful because it still hits hard in rain and has better accuracy and PP than Hydro Pump.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Electric or Hidden Power Fighting can be used in the fourth moveslot to gain a solid hit on Empoleon, but a rain-boosted Hydro Pump does nearly the same amount of damage, so it isn't recommended. Because this set relies on Special Attack, it prefers that special walls such as Snorlax and Porygon2 are removed by a Fighting-type ally such as Heracross or Mienshao. The same goes for Empoleon, who is the number one hard counter to this set, as it has very good Special Defense and resists both of Kingdra's STABs. A strong Electric- or Fighting-type such as Raikou and Heracross are great teammates to help Kingdra out with Empoleon. Since this set will force a lot of switches, entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong is appreciated, as the residual damage will make Kingdra's job of sweeping much easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Rain Dance / Draco Meteor
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant / Lonely
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When Kingdra opts to use both of its setup moves in Rain Dance and Dragon Dance, a menacing sweeper is born. It's much more immediately powerful than other sets, especially the ChestoRest set, but is much more vulnerable to status. The Speed boosts from both Rain Dance and a Dragon Dance leave Kingdra nigh impossible to keep up with, and priority moves are one of the few options for damaging this set. After a Rain Dance and a single Dragon Dance, Waterfall becomes a very devastating move, crushing anything that doesn't resist it. Much goes the same for Outrage, obliterating anything that isn't a Steel-type. Draco Meteor is a viable option over Rain Dance, as even with no investment, it will still be heavily damaging Pokemon like Slowbro or other physically defensive Pokemon that can stomach an Outrage or two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If using Draco Meteor over Rain Dance, a Lonely or Naughty nature should be used so it can hit as hard as possible without investment. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim if Rain Dance is not being used, powering up Kingdra's critical hits. Prankster Sableye is a major issue for this set, and appreciates having a strong sweeper immune to Will-O-Wisp such as Victini or Darmanitan remove it. This variant of Kingdra pairs well with another cleaner, such as Choice Scarf Moxie Heracross, as it will tear holes in the opposing team, leaving Heracross to quickly pick up the pieces and gain Attack boosts. this set also appreciates entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong, as it will be forcing a lot of switches, and the additional damage upon switching in will leave many opponents vulnerable to an OHKO.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Surf
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This variant of Kingdra puts sweeping aside for the purpose of wallbreaking, considering not much in the tier wants to be toying around with a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice, removing whatever doesn't resist it or carry a large amount of special bulk from the face of the earth. Hydro Pump functions similarly as a powerful STAB move, but doesn't suffer from the drop in Special Attack like Draco Meteor does. Dragon Pulse is a powerful backup STAB move that can be used to pick off weakened opponents instead of wasting Kingdra's Special Attack stat to Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Electric is a handy coverage move that deals considerable damage to the bulky Water-types in the tier and the occasional Flying-type that Kingdra finds itself up against, but unless they resist Draco Meteor, two Hidden Powers will always be outdamaged by two Draco Meteors. Surf is an acceptable STAB option over either Hydro Pump or Hidden Power Electric, being used much how Dragon Pulse is, damaging opponents while preserving Hydro Pump's low PP or if you can't afford a miss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of the scarcity of Rain Dance throughout the Underused tier, Sniper is a perfectly usable option over Swift Swim, boosting up Kingdra's critical hits to absurdly powerful levels. A Timid nature may be used to tie other positively natured base 85 Speed Pokemon such as (examples), but will see a hefty drop in overall power. Signal Beam may be used over Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power Electric to gain additional coverage on Pokemon such as Shaymin or Azelf, but is generally not recommended as the STAB Draco Meteor will be hitting harder. Because of its power, this set doesn't need to rely on having special walls removed, rather just weakened. All variants of Porygon2 are 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, and Snorlax takes around 40% from Hydro Pump. Entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong (you might want to start using different examples for these; Rhyperior and Froslass also synergize decently) is still appreciated, as it turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With status moves being in high supply in the Underused tier, a ChestoRest set greatly aids Kingdra in pulling off a sweep. The goal of this set is to accumulate as many boosts as possible, then use Rest to heal whatever damage or status Kingdra may have taken, then begin smashing your opponent. This set excels during the late-game when most Steel-types are weakened or removed, and other strong threats are out of play, but can be used early on to open holes for other sweepers. Dragon Dance boosts Kingdra's Attack and Speed stats, turning it into a very capable sweeper, outspeeding the entire tier after two boosts. Backed by STAB, Waterfall and Outrage accumulate a lot of power after two or more Dragon Dance boosts, proceeding to OHKO or 2HKO nearly the entire tier. Rest, as mentioned, recovers HP and eliminates status, giving Kingdra a new lease on a sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Waterfall can be dropped for Sleep Talk so that Kingdra can gain additional opportunities to Rest and set up on Pokemon such as Slowbro (don't you set up on Slowbro anyway?), but leaves Kingdra walled by Steel-types. Sniper can be used in place of Swift Swim simply because of how rare Rain Dance teams are and that the Speed boost may not be found; this powers up Kingdra's critical hits, decimating anything they touch. This set greatly appreciates having Empoleon and users of Haze and phazing moves removed by powerful attackers such as Raikou or Heracross, as Empoleon walls this set cold and generally carries Roar, removing Kingdra's boosts, and Haze and phazers immediately nullify Kingdra's boosts and severely hamper a sweep. Entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Roserade and Bronzong is also greatly appreciated, as it weakens many of Kingdra's checks, and allowing for easier sweeps.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Hidden Power Electric wherever applicable to ensure a super effective hit on Ferroseed along with a super effective hit on Empoleon. However, Ferroseed's usage is fairly low, and should not warrant that much attention. Ice Beam can be used to hit Grass-and Flying-types hard, but the coverage offered alongside its Dragon-type STAB is relatively redundant. Kingdra is capable of running a mixed set consisting of Outrage, Draco Meteor, Waterfall, and Hydro Pump, but splitting its offenses is generally not recommended. Kingdra could run a Choice Band set of Outrage, Waterfall, Return, andIron Head, but Flygon is a better Choice Band user, as its movepool supports a Choice Band better than Kingdra's does. A support set with moves such as Yawn, Clear Smog, and Scald is possible, as Kingdra has the bulk to pull it off, but lacks viable recovery.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Flygon is one of the most capable checks to Kingdra, as it threatens variants below +2 Speed, easily outspeeding and KOing with Outrage. Both Empoleon and Ferroseed hard counter any sets lacking Hidden Power Electric or Fighting respectively, and the former can phaze Kingdra while the latter can set hazards up on it. Toxic Spikes can limit Kingdra's staying power and force it to use Rest prematurely, making it easier to break down; (examples) can set them up. Strong attacks from faster Pokemon, such as Superpower from Choice Scarf Darmanitan, put a hefty dent in Kingdra's HP, making it vulnerable to priority moves. Milotic and Cofagrigus have the bulk to take on just about anything Kingdra can throw at it while recovering any damage taken with Recover or Pain Split, and Hazing away boosts, however the latter will not want to be taking a Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump. Specially attacking sets, bar the Choice Specs set to a certain extent, are shut down by the likes of Snorlax and Porygon2. Arguably the most reliable counter for a setup Kingdra, Imposter Ditto can use Kingdra's boosts against it, outspeed it, and revenge kill it with its own attacks, but is Kingdra is behind a Substitute, as it will die before it can KO.</p>


    Underused is capitalized. The sentence that you added mid-check isn't diffed but it's fixed in the c/p.
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
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    8,218
    yeah lol stamping c_l's check

    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    pokemazter be sure to implement that check
  21. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    I will. Didn't get the notification in my subscription folder when he made his post.
  22. Redew

    Redew jukain sucks
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    done (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>After a successful bout in Underused so far during BW, Kingdra returns to the tier having gained nothing but new opponents from BW2. Nevertheless, its unique Water / Dragon typing and good stats allow Kingdra to remain a lethal force in the tier. Part of this is due to its ability to use Rain Dance, doubling its Speed thanks to Swift Swim, and Dragon Dance, boosting both Kingdra's Attack and Speed stats, two highlights in a shallow movepool, allowing Kingdra to outspeed its new nemeses and rough them up with powerful STAB moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The staple set from DPP returns as one of Kingdra's best sets in the BW2 Underused tier. With new status inducers such as Amoonguss, and constant threats such as Sableye and Xatu becoming increasingly popular in the tier, the use of Substitute gives Kingdra more than enough time to set up and become a powerhouse. While behind a Substitute, Kingdra can use Dragon Dance to increase its Attack and Speed. With the EV distribution, two Dragon Dances will ensure that Kingdra outspeeds the entire tier, leaving it free time to smash the opponent with Waterfall or Outrage, both of which are powerful STAB moves that gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier, with only Empoleon and Ferroseed resisting the combination.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you don't fear status and are willing to rely on Substitute alone to block it, Leftovers may be used over a Lum Berry to recover Kingdra's HP. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim because Rain Dance teams are fairly scarce in the Underused tier. This allows Kingdra to basically guarantee an OHKO with a critical hit because the multiplier is boosted from 2x to 3x. Because As Empoleon is the number one go-to check to Kingdra in the Underused tier, Kingdra appreciates having it removed by Electric- or Fighting-type partners such as Raikou or Heracross respectively. Entry hazard support from Steel-type Pokemon such as Bronzong is also appreciated, as it breaks any potential Focus Sashes and allows for more collective damage to be spread if Kingdra should ever find itself unboosted or at +1. Rapid Spin support from Cryogonal or Hitmontop is vital for this set if Lum Berry is being used, as Kingdra's HP will be in low supply as it is, and won't want to be losing 37% of its overall HP upon switching in, as it greatly reduces Kingdra's staying power.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Draco Meteor
    move 4: Dragon Pulse / Surf
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Taking on a much more immediate sweeping role from a specially attacking perspective, Kingdra also runs an effective Rain Dance set that functions well on its own or on a Rain Dance team. Rain Dance doubles Kingdra's Speed and boosts its Water-type STAB, giving it the ability to outspeed and 2HKO or OHKO a vast majority of the Underused tier. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the STAB moves that are going to be generally spammed, as the two of them gain near perfect coverage throughout the tier. The last slot is useful for picking off weakened threats, and both moves are useful in certain situations. Dragon Pulse is useful so that Kingdra does not need to immediately suffer the sharp drop in Special Attack, and Surf is useful because it still hits hard in rain and has better accuracy and PP than Hydro Pump.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Electric or Hidden Power Fighting can be used in the fourth moveslot to gain a solid hit on Empoleon, but a rain-boosted Hydro Pump does nearly the same amount of damage, so it isn't recommended. Because this set relies on Special Attack, it prefers that special walls such as Snorlax and Porygon2 are removed by a Fighting-type ally such as Heracross or Mienshao. The same goes for Empoleon, who is the number one hard counter to this set, as it has very good Special Defense and resists both of Kingdra's STABs. A strong Electric- or Fighting-type such as Raikou and or Heracross respectively, are great teammates to help Kingdra out with Empoleon. Since this set will force a lot of switches, entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong is appreciated, as the residual damage will make Kingdra's job of sweeping much easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Rain Dance / Draco Meteor
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant / Lonely
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When Kingdra opts to use both of its setup moves in Rain Dance and Dragon Dance, a menacing sweeper is born. It's much more immediately powerful than other sets, especially the ChestoRest set, but is much more vulnerable to status. The Speed boosts from both Rain Dance and a Dragon Dance leave Kingdra nigh impossible to keep up with, and priority moves are one of the few options for damaging this set. After a Rain Dance and a single Dragon Dance, Waterfall becomes a very devastating move, crushing anything that doesn't resist it. Much goes the same for Outrage, obliterating anything that isn't a Steel-type. Draco Meteor is a viable option over Rain Dance, as even with no investment, it will still be heavily damaging Pokemon like Slowbro or other physically defensive Pokemon that can stomach an Outrage or two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If using Draco Meteor over Rain Dance, a Lonely or Naughty nature should be used so it can hit as hard as possible without investment. Sniper is a viable option over Swift Swim if Rain Dance is not being used, powering up Kingdra's critical hits. Prankster Sableye is a major issue for this set, and appreciates having a strong sweeper immune to Will-O-Wisp such as Victini or Darmanitan remove it. This variant of Kingdra pairs well with another cleaner, such as Choice Scarf Moxie Heracross, as it will tear holes in the opposing team, leaving Heracross to quickly pick up the pieces and gain Attack boosts. tThis set also appreciates entry hazard support from Roserade and Bronzong, as it will be forcing a lot of switches, and the additional damage upon switching in will leave many opponents vulnerable to an OHKO.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Surf
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This variant of Kingdra puts sweeping aside for the purpose of wallbreaking, considering not much in the tier wants to be toying around with a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice, removing whatever doesn't resist it or carry a large amount of special bulk from the face of the earth. Hydro Pump functions similarly as a powerful STAB move, but doesn't suffer from the drop in Special Attack like Draco Meteor does. Dragon Pulse is a powerful backup STAB move that can be used to pick off weakened opponents instead of wasting Kingdra's Special Attack stat to Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Electric is a handy coverage move that deals considerable damage to the bulky Water-types in the tier and the occasional Flying-type that Kingdra finds itself up against, but unless they resist Draco Meteor, two Hidden Powers will always be outdamaged by two Draco Meteors. Surf is an acceptable STAB option over either Hydro Pump or Hidden Power Electric, being used much how Dragon Pulse is, damaging opponents while preserving Hydro Pump's low PP or if you can't afford a miss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of the scarcity of Rain Dance throughout the Underused tier, Sniper is a perfectly usable option over Swift Swim, boosting up Kingdra's critical hits to absurdly powerful levels. A Timid nature may be used to tie other positively natured base 85 Speed Pokemon such as (examples), but will see a hefty drop in overall power. Signal Beam may be used over Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power Electric to gain additional coverage on Pokemon such as Shaymin or Azelf, but is generally not recommended as the STAB Draco Meteor will be hitting harder. Because of its power, this set doesn't need to rely on having special walls removed, rather just weakened. All variants of Porygon2 are 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, and Snorlax takes around 40% from Hydro Pump. Entry hazard support from Rhyperior and Frosslass is still appreciated, as it turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Dragon Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Swift Swim / Sniper
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With status moves being in high supply in the Underused tier, a ChestoRest set greatly aids Kingdra in pulling off a sweep. The goal of this set is to accumulate as many boosts as possible, then use Rest to heal whatever damage or status Kingdra may have taken, then begin smashing your opponent. This set excels during the late-game when most Steel-types are weakened or removed, and other strong threats are out of play, but can be used early on to open holes for other sweepers. Dragon Dance boosts Kingdra's Attack and Speed stats, turning it into a very capable sweeper, outspeeding the entire tier after two boosts. Backed by STAB, Waterfall and Outrage accumulate a lot of power after two or more Dragon Dance boosts, proceeding to OHKO or 2HKO nearly the entire tier. Rest, as mentioned, recovers HP and eliminates status, giving Kingdra a new lease on a sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Waterfall can be dropped for Sleep Talk so that Kingdra can gain additional opportunities to Rest and set up on Pokemon such as Slowbro, but leaves Kingdra walled by Steel-types. Sniper can be used in place of Swift Swim simply because of how rare Rain Dance teams are and that the Speed boost may not be found; this powers up Kingdra's critical hits, decimating anything they touch. This set greatly appreciates having Empoleon and users of Haze and phazing moves removed by powerful attackers such as Raikou or Heracross, as Empoleon walls this set cold and generally carries Roar, removing Kingdra's boosts, and Haze and phazers immediately nullify Kingdra's boosts and severely hamper a sweep. Entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Roserade and Bronzong is also greatly appreciated, as it weakens many of Kingdra's checks, and allowing for easier sweeps.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Hidden Power Electric wherever applicable to ensure a super effective hit on Ferroseed along with a super effective hit on Empoleon. However, Ferroseed's usage is fairly low, and should not warrant that much attention. Ice Beam can be used to hit Grass-and Flying-types hard, but the coverage offered alongside its Dragon-type STAB is relatively redundant. Kingdra is capable of running a mixed set consisting of Outrage, Draco Meteor, Waterfall, and Hydro Pump, but splitting its offenses is generally not recommended. Kingdra could run a Choice Band set of Outrage, Waterfall, Return, andspaceIron Head, but Flygon is a better Choice Band user, as its movepool supports a Choice Band better than Kingdra's does. A support set with moves such as Yawn, Clear Smog, and Scald is possible, as Kingdra has the bulk to pull it off, but lacks viable recovery.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Choice Scarf Flygon is one of the most capable checks to Kingdra, as it threatens variants below +2 Speed, easily outspeeding and KOing with Outrage. Both Empoleon and Ferroseed hard counter any sets lacking Hidden Power Electric or Fighting, <comma> respectively, and the former can phaze Kingdra while the latter can set hazards up on it. Toxic Spikes can limit Kingdra's staying power and force it to use Rest prematurely, making it easier to break down; Roserade and Qwilfish can set them up. Strong attacks from faster Pokemon, such as Superpower from Choice Scarf Darmanitan, put a hefty dent in Kingdra's HP, making it vulnerable to priority moves. Milotic and Cofagrigus have the bulk to take on just about anything Kingdra can throw at it while recovering any damage taken with Recover or Pain Split, and Hazing away boosts, however the latter will not want to be taking a Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump. Specially attacking sets, bar the Choice Specs set to a certain extent, are shut down by the likes of Snorlax and Porygon2. Arguably the most reliable counter for a setup Kingdra, Imposter Ditto, <comma> can use Kingdra's boosts against it, outspeed it, and revenge kill it with its own attacks, but if Kingdra is behind a Substitute, it will die before it can KO.</p>
  23. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    worked on top of Redew's check

    add
    remove
    comments

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  24. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    Thanks. I'll implement that and get kokoloko to upload it.
  25. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    yay, uploaded

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