1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Kingdra (Special Rain Dance)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    I'm currently dissatisfied using Mixed Rain Dance Kingdra and having to be stalled out with Life Orb. The reason for this thread: it's a more healthy alternative to use Rain Dance Kingdra, especially since I tested out Wave Incense and wasn't stalled out as much. Rain-boosted Waterfall is pretty much bleh, IMO.

    Status: Quality Control

    QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Bloo) (Iconic)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (Omicron + V0x) (V0x)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]

    I could be banned! But I'm not, so I'm stuck being UU...

    [SET]
    name: Special Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Signal Beam / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kingdra's sheer power in the rain can easily be utilized specially, and although this set has the same basic premise as its mixed counterpart, forgoing physical moves offers new advantages. First of all, Kingdra does not require investment in Attack, meaning you can freely invest in its bulk and Speed, giving this set an easier time setting up. The focus on the special side also allows Kingdra to use additional special attacks, which expands its coverage and power output against certain targets that previously gave the mixed set trouble. When taking the power boost from Life Orb, rain, and a Modest nature into account, Kingdra is basically a faster Life Orb Latias with a STAB Water-type attack and the ability to stand up to Scizor, Tyranitar, and opposing weather teams.</p>

    <p>Rather than rely on the one-time use of Draco Meteor, Kingdra now relies on Dragon Pulse and it's chosen Water-type attack as STAB moves. Again, the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump comes down to wallbreaking power versus reliability. The third attack depends on what targets Kingdra needs to hit. Draco Meteor may seem strange alongside the more reliable Dragon Pulse, but often, it is required to break through some threats that would otherwise survive Dragon Pulse. For instance, Jellicent can be 2HKOed by a Dragon Pulse followed by a Draco Meteor, while all variants of Rotom-W bar specially defensive ones are OHKOed by Draco Meteor alone. Signal Beam is guaranteed to OHKO Celebi, which is a common switch-in to Kingdra, and hits Abomasnow harder than its other attacks. Finally, Hidden Power Grass is reserved simply for Gastrodon, who would otherwise wall Kingdra.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Other than the Modest nature and the maximum investment into Special Attack, Kingdra's performance depends on the amount of EVs invested into Speed and HP. The listed EV spread allows Kingdra to outrun neutral base 80 Speed Pokemon before rain and +1 base 108 Pokemon (mainly Choice Scarf Terrakion), after said condition. The rest of the EVs are distributed into HP for a small amount of bulk. If Kingdra requires more bulk, you can transfer EVs from Speed to HP. Ideal benchmarks would be 196 EVs in Speed, which outruns +1 base 101 Pokemon in the rain, and 16, which does the same for unboosted positive-natured base 130 Pokemon. Finally, if +1 base 110 Speed Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Latios are a concern, simply maximize Speed.</p>

    <p>As this set is very similar to the Mixed Rain Dance set, nearly all the same teammates and counters apply here. However, since Kingdra is instead oriented towards special attacking, special walls, namely Blissey, Chansey, and Politoed, will need to be eliminated first. The most straightforward way of doing so is to pair Kingdra with strong physical or mixed attackers to maintain the team's offensive presence. For instance, Conkeldurr can absorb any status aimed at Kingdra and beat most special walls, while Choice Band Terrakion can simply punch holes in the opposing team with its offensive prowess. Additionally, as opposing weather teams can sometimes be a problem for balanced or offensive teams, Kingdra fits almost perfectly as a weather buffer, should your team require one.</p>
  2. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Isn't this set already on the analysis? -_-
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,485
    nope, it is for UU but not for OU (OU has a Choice Specs set), and I'd hope AG would be able to notice that before posting a thread!
  4. MajinLucario

    MajinLucario

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Aren't there better items than Wave Incense?
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    That's why Life Orb is slashed right next to it. Wave Incense is simply intended to preserve bulk and prevent Kingdra from having to be stalled out by recoil, which happens ALOT in prediction wars. Failing these wars and being stalled causes the rain the pelter out and Kingdra to die out faster. It also preserves some KOes that Life Orb offers, provided you give it an extra entry hazard (Scizor has a less likely chance of being OHKOed by Wave Incense Surf).
  6. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    This set is effective in OU, since nothing is prepared for it. Rain teams give you free setup and sun teams that sack their ninetales are in for a surprise. Weakened Celebi are OHKOd too. I'd just pair this with something like wisp / hp fire rotom or lati@s to lure in ferro. Once it falls below like 40% it is in the KO range. It's should just be a cleaner and it needs LO for power.
  7. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Thank you for your support, and I mentioned some Ferrothorn buffers in the AC. As for the item choice though, Wave Incense has served me well so far for the reasons explained, so I'm not too inclined to remove it completely. I would, however, remove Wave Incense if more others wish, since that was the case with Floatzel and Kabutops last generation.
  8. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    Yeah, this thing just tears shit up, and has never failed to amaze me when I've used it. However, I don't garee with the EV spread. 164 Spe EVs leaves Kingdra outsped by Choice Scarf Terrakion, which is kinda a big deal. Changing the EV spread to 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe allows Kingdra to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion with rain up. I also don't like Wave Incense as an item. Rain Dance Kingdra IMO is meant as a wall-breaker and a sweeper, and Life Orb gives that boost to Kingdar's Dragon-type moves that it needs. AC it if you want, but it shouldn't be slashed with Life Orb.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    I agree with Berserker Lord - I think Scarf Terrakion is common enough for Kingdra to be faster. Since this is not a mixed Sweeper, it can afford to heavily invest in Speed to even outrun Scarf Latios, which does exist. Kingdra needs 263 Speed to do this. Hitting 260+ Speed is useful for checking Mamoswine and Dragonite even without Rain Dance, too.

    I think HP Fire, Signal Beam, and HP Grass may deserve an AC mention to deal with walls that usually troubles Kingdra. HP Fire before a Rain Dance would be a great way to fatally injure Ferrothorn on the obvious switch so that it cannot wall Kingdra when it sets up Rain. Signal Beam is for specially-defensive Celebi that soaks up Draco Meteors no problem. HP Grass 2HKOs Gastrodon!
  10. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Jeez lu-weez. Sorry for overlooking your commend, BL, since you did make a good comment. So since Choice Scarf Terrakion's such a commonality in the metagame right now, I updated the spread (which coincidentally outruns neutral base 80's!)

    I'm iffy about Hidden Power Fire being there, but I mentioned Pocket's suggested options due to the sheer amount of Celebi and Gastrodon trying to switch into Kingdra in many instances :P

    So, here's the deal: if we're investing this much Speed into Kingdra, some might say "lol just maximize Speed and Special Attack and call it a day", but there are little Pokemon that's worth outspeeding my maximizing it. Giving Kingdra 9 HP grants an overall 2% bulkiness. Just wanted to clarify. Thoughts?
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,152
    Yeah there's little point to maxing speed since there's nothing in particular that's in Kingdra's speed range. I think this plays differently enough from the mixed set to warrant its own set.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  12. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,750
    Looks fine.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  13. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,888
    QC Approved 3/3
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    We're in for trouble and make it double.

    Prepared for GP Checks.
  15. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    You know what this is yo

    Add
    Remove
    Comment

    [SET]
    name: Special Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Signal Beam / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kingdra's sheer power in the rain can easily also be utilized specially, and although this set has the same basic premise as its mixed counterpart, forgoing physical moves offers both the old and new advantages of using Rain Dance. First of all, Kingdra does will not require investment in Attack, meaning you can freely invest freely in its bulk and/or Speed, and giving making this set an easier time arguably more sturdy way of setting up. The focus on towards the special side attacking also allows Kingdra to use additional special attacks moves, which expands expanding its coverage and power output against certain targets that previously gave the mixed set trouble. When taking the power boost from Life Orb, rain, and a the Modest nature into account, Kingdra is basically a faster Life Orb Latias with a STAB stronger Water-type attack.</p>

    <p>Rather than rely on the one-time use of Draco Meteor, Kingdra now relies on Dragon Pulse as its source of great STAB and coverage alongside with its chosen Water-type STAB attack move. The third attack depends on what comes down to which targets Kingdra needs to hit. Draco Meteor may seem strange alongside the more reliable Dragon Pulse, but often, it is required to break through some walls that would otherwise survive Dragon Pulse. For instance, Jellicent can be 2HKOed by a the combination of Draco Meteor followed by a and Dragon Pulse, but can't be defeated otherwise. Signal Beam is guaranteed to OHKO Celebi, which who is a common switch-in to Kingdra, and hits Abomasnow harder than its other attacks. Finally, Hidden Power Grass is simply for Gastrodon, who would otherwise wall Kingdra.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Other than the mandatory Modest nature and the maximum investment into maximized Special Attack, Kingdra's performance depends on the amount of EVs invested into Speed and HP. The listed EV spread allows Kingdra to outrun neutral base 80 Speed Pokémon before rain, (add comma) and +1 base 108s Speed Pokemon (mainly Choice Scarf Terrakion), (add comma) after said condition. The rest of the EVs are distributed poured into HP for a small amount of bulk. If Kingdra requires more an emphasis on bulk, you can may transfer EVs from Speed to HP. Ideal benchmarks would be 196 EVs in Speed, which outruns +1 base 101s Speed Pokemon in the rain, and 16, which does the same for positive-natured base 130s Speed Pokemon. Finally, if +1 base 110s Speed Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Latios are a concern, simply maximize Speed investment.</p>

    <p>As this set is very similar to the Mixed Rain Dance set, nearly all the same teammates and counters apply here. However, since Kingdra is instead oriented towards special attacking, special walls, namely Blissey, Chansey, and Politoed, will need to be eliminated first. The most straightforward way of doing so is to pair Kingdra with strong physical or mixed attackers to uphold (uphold is a somewhat strange word here, reword maybe??) the team's offensive presence. For instance, Conkeldurr can absorb any status aimed at Kingdra and beat most special walls, while Choice Band Terrakion can simply punch holes in the opposing team with its offensive prowess Choiced sets. Additionally, as since opposing weather teams can sometimes be a problem for balanced for offensive teams, Kingdra fits almost perfectly as a weather buffer, should if your team require one.</p>

    Ok, so I was REALLY nitpicking on this one, and as a result, there are a few subjective changes that I thought made a little more sense. However, feel free to make whichever changes you wish. Good job overall! :)
  16. V0x

    V0x 4: I used to run at the sight of sun
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,762
    ^[​IMG] 1/2

    carry on

    [SET]
    name: Special Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Signal Beam / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kingdra's sheer power in the rain can easily be utilized specially, and although this set has the same basic premise as its mixed counterpart, forgoing physical moves offers new advantages. First of all, Kingdra does not require investment in Attack, meaning you can freely invest in its bulk and Speed, giving this set an easier time setting up. The focus on the special side also allows Kingdra to use additional special attacks, which expands its coverage and power output against certain targets that previously gave the mixed set trouble. When taking the power boost from Life Orb, rain, and a Modest nature into account, Kingdra is basically a faster Life Orb Latias with a STAB Water-type attack and the ability to stand up to Scizor, Tyranitar, and opposing weather teams.</p>

    <p>Rather than rely on the one-time use of Draco Meteor, Kingdra now relies on Dragon Pulse and its chosen Water-type attack as STAB moves. as its source of STAB along with its chosen Water-type STAB attack. Again, the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump comes down to wallbreaking power versus reliability. The third attack depends on what targets Kingdra needs to hit. Draco Meteor may seem strange alongside the more reliable Dragon Pulse, but often, it is required to break through some threats that would otherwise survive Dragon Pulse. For instance, Jellicent can be 2HKOed by a Dragon Pulse followed by a Draco Meteor, while all variants of Rotom-W bar specially defensive ones are OHKOed by Draco Meteor alone. Signal Beam is guaranteed to OHKO Celebi, which is a common switch-in to Kingdra, and hits Abomasnow harder than its other attacks. Finally, Hidden Power Grass is reserved simply for Gastrodon, who would otherwise wall Kingdra.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Other than the Modest nature and the maximum investment into Special Attack, Kingdra's performance depends on the amount of EVs invested into Speed and HP. The listed EV spread allows Kingdra to outrun neutral base 80 Speed Pokemon before rain and +1 base 108 Pokemon (mainly Choice Scarf Terrakion), after said condition. The rest of the EVs are distributed into HP for a small amount of bulk. If Kingdra requires more bulk, you can transfer EVs from Speed to HP. Ideal benchmarks would be 196 EVs in Speed, which outruns +1 base 101 Pokemon in the rain, and 16, which does the same for unboosted positive-natured base 130 Pokemon. Finally, if +1 base 110 Speed Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Latios are a concern, simply maximize Speed.</p>

    <p>As this set is very similar to the Mixed Rain Dance set, nearly all the same teammates and counters apply here. However, since Kingdra is instead oriented towards special attacking, special walls, namely Blissey, Chansey, and Politoed, will need to be eliminated first. The most straightforward way of doing so is to pair Kingdra with strong physical or mixed attackers to maintain the team's offensive presence. For instance, Conkeldurr can absorb any status aimed at Kingdra and beat most special walls, while Choice Band Terrakion can simply punch holes in the opposing team with its offensive prowess. Additionally, as opposing weather teams can sometimes be a problem for balanced or offensive teams, Kingdra fits almost perfectly as a weather buffer, should your team require one.</p>

    [​IMG]

    placeholder for 2/2 (AG could you maybe VM me when you implement Omicron's?)
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Amazing as always V0x.

    Kingdra is efficiently...executed.

    EDIT: this is intended for OU. My request is that anybody who uploads this should place this set under the Mixed Rain Dance set, because both Rain Dance sets are more useful than the others.
  18. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,614
    Crap, I was going to upload this then I saw there's a rain dance sweeper set with all special moves, modest, and life orb (different evs). Is this set supposed to replace that one altogether? I want to know so I don't delete an entire set for nothing.
  19. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    It's the OU one, not the UU one, so it isn't supposed to be replaced, upload it under the OU tab
  20. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,750
    Uploaded. Nice job.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)