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Kings of the North (Hail RMT)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Arikado, May 29, 2012.

  1. Arikado

    Arikado Bouncing Fish to the eye, nigga
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    I'd like to credit both Delko and Superpowerdude because they're who inspired me to make a hail team. My first ever competitive team back in 4th gen was hail, but as I gained experience I knew that it was a bad built team, so I gave it up and made other teams. But since 5th gen started I didn't really like it at all, so I quit Pokemon for a good while (about 5 months) and now I'm back, with my new revived hail team, but it's not perfect, so I made this RMT so I could ask for advice from experienced members.

    Team at a glance:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In-depth look:

    [​IMG] Lord Snow (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer

    The Pokemon this whole team is centered around, and honestly, it's always underestimated. Usually this guy is my lead, and it almost always gets hail up unless the opposing lead is Hippowdon or a slow Tyranitar. If it's either of those, I immediately switch out to Sableye to burn them or to Virzion to Giga Drain/CC respectively, but I'd rather keep Virizion to mid/late-game.

    Leech Seed really helps me a lot on this moveset, because if I expect a switch, I usually seed the in-coming Pokemon and then Protect to scout their move and switch to the appropriate Pokemon. Leech Seed/Protect combo coupled with double layers of T.Spikes/burn and hail damage can wear down Pokemon really fast for Ice Shard to be in the range for the KO. This is mainly why I went with the physical variant of Abomasnow.

    Abomasnow does very well against opposite weather changers -except for Ninetales- and can OHKO most variants of Politoed using Wood Hammer except for the physically defensive set, but even so, Politoed can't really hurt Abomasnow at all except if it burns it with Scald. Even burn is not enough to stop this guy from stalling out the opponent's Pokemon to death. That, and this guy can revenge-kill a lot of threatening Pokemon in this metagame such as Dragonite, Gliscor, Salamence, Haxorus, and basically anything in the KO range for Ice Shard to kill.

    Credits go to Delko for creating this set.


    [​IMG] Arya (Virizion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 104 Atk / 152 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Work Up
    - Close Combat
    - Giga Drain
    - Stone Edge

    You can't deny that this classy lady musketeer isn't awesome. And what's also awesome about her is that she's not just classy, she's also my powerful check to rain stall/offense. With Stone Edge, it can check offensive variants Dragonite at +1, and at +2, it can OHKO after SR damage. So Dragonite isn't really much of a threat, especially with Abomasnow's Ice Shard and Landorus's Stone Edge. Giga Drain works very well as a reliable source of recovery, as it can do serious damage when at +1 or +2, which is really easy for Virizion to achieve. Close Combat can take care of Heatran and Blissey who think they can wall me.

    I used a Naive nature because I really don't wanna give up defense so I could take Bullet Punches from Scizor and deal some damage to him with Close Combat. The EV spread is simple, max speed, and the rest dumped into both attack and SpA. Even though with Virizion's Life Orb and hail damage she'll be taking 16% damage each turn he attacks, the Life Orb is just too valuable to not use it.. I was wrong when I thought LO on Virizion would be bad. Giga Drain can manage to at least do 40% to every Pokemon that doesn't resist it, and usually OHKO's Pokemon who are weak against it, so it works as a very reliable source of recovery as I said earlier.

    [​IMG] Greyjoy (Tentacruel) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Sludge Wave

    Rapid spin, coupled with toxic spikes, ability to absorb t.spikes, great speed and great bulk, makes Tentacruel the best rapid spinner in the metagame IMO. Not only he insures that toxic spikes are on the field, but he also insures the opponent's hazards are spun away unless they have a ghost-type, in that case, I go for Surf or set-up my own t.spikes. Rain dish helps me here to be able to heal a little in the rain, and that's much more useful than Liquid Ooze or Clear Body IMO. I used Sludge Wave as the 4th move because well, it's a cool STAB, and it's super effective against Breloom, what else do I want? I don't want Blizzard because I like using this guy when the opponent has rain on the field, so the ability is activated, and Surf gets a little boost.

    The nature/EV spread maximize this BAMF's defense, while having a little speed to outspeed Politoed and Metagross who don't invest in Spe, and also Adamant Breloom.



    [​IMG] Jonn (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    My main check to sandstorm. This guy is just a bad motherfucker. 101 speed totally trolls over scarf Jirachi (assuming it still exists), Haxorus and Hydreigon, and basically any base 100 speed scarfer. And what's more to that, he has base 125 attack and an amazing ability that boosts his Stone Edge/STAB Earthquake. Landorus can tear sandstorm teams pretty hard, Earthquaking Tyranitar, Terrakion, and basically anything that doesn't resist it for some serious damage.

    Even though it's my main revenge killer, I use this guy to sweep with EQ late-game when I make sure all flying-types/levitators are down. Even without sandstorm, this guy can still do some serious damage.

    U-turn can help me scout switch-ins and getting rid of Alakazam/Espeon and doing a lot of damage to Celebi.

    [​IMG] Jeoffrey (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Foul Play

    My spinblocker and stall/utility counter. It can spread around burns like crazy, and when I see the opponent has a Landorus/Scizor/Dragonite/Salamence, I try to keep this guy alive as much as possible only to burn them since they're not affected by Toxic Spikes. Sableye also works as a check to Ferrothorn. I just hate Ferrothorn since it's a huge threat to this team if Heatran is KO'd. Sableye can burn Ferrothorn so it can't hurt me with Power Whip or Gyro Ball, and Taunt so it doesn't paralyze my team.

    Recover with Prankster is just orgasmic. Don't you just love stalling out Pokemon to death with burn/toxic + hail damage and recover off the damage ?

    [​IMG] Robert (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Stealth Rock

    My main switch-in against Ninetales. Who doesn't love a Fire immunity in their team ? Especially that this mofo is an offensive powerhouse, and actually has bulk. This guy comes in early-game, sets-up Stealth Rock and then disappears until later when he's needed. Fire Blast is pretty obvious.. an 130 base-power STAB ? Hell yes, and what's even better is that this guy can also use the opponent's sun against him by boosting it's Fire Blast thanks to sun. Earth Power can hit opposing Heatrans and fire types if their balloon is popped, and Hidden Power Ice can help a bit against Dragonite. They always predict a switch and go for DD (especially if my balloon is not popped) and bam, they're surprised by an HP Ice.

    Air Balloon has been helpful because I've realized that most people sacrifice a Pokemon to use a neutral/resistant attack on Heatran just to pop the balloon, then they go for Earthquake/Earth Power.. Which guarantees one Pokemon dead from the opponent's team, and guarantees that Stealth Rocks are on the field.​




    Final words:
    As you see, this isn't really BlizzSpam. I don't abuse Blizzard at all in this team. It's more about countering opposite weather teams and turning their own weather against them, and then if possible, stall out using toxic/WoW + hail damage and Abomasnow's Leech Seed/Protect or Sableyes WoW+Recover.






    Biggest threats I've come upon:
    Sub + SD Gliscor: Especially variants with acrobatics, can sweep my whole team if played correctly. I have to sacrifice a Pokemon or two to be able to kill him.
    SubPunch Abomasnow: Ironically, my own hail team is weak to opposite hail teams. Not whole hail teams, just this one variant of Abomasnow. If it's behind a sub, it can do some serious damage to my team.
    Ferrothorn: It's just annoying. I have Sableye to burn/taunt him, and Heatran to Fire Blast, but if the opponent somehow manages to KO Heatran, then I usually have problems with this son of a bitch.
    CB Azumarill: Yes, I was swept by a CB Azumarill. If under rain, it can Aqua Jet the shit out of Landorus, Sableye (outspeeds my sableye even with Prankster) and Heatran. Luckily it's not common.

    Importable
    Show Hide
    Lord Snow (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer

    Arya (Virizion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 104 Atk / 152 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Work Up
    - Close Combat
    - Giga Drain
    - Stone Edge

    Greyjoy (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Sludge Wave

    Jonn (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Jeoffrey (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Foul Play

    Robert (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock


    Oh, and btw, if you have questions about the RMT name/Pokemon nicknames, they're based off of Game of Thrones. :P
  2. Episode36

    Episode36

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    Hi. Nice team. Hail is definitely a fun weather.

    One of my first main issues with the team is, what are you using hail for? You have literally like two ice type attacks on the team, not even a Blizzard, just Ice Shard and HP Ice. You might consider replacing a Pokemon or adding Blizzard to a Pokemon or two (Tentacruel, maybe?)

    As it seems that you are using hail simply for residual damage, I like the use of Tentacruel's TS and Sableye as your spin blocker. He's one of my favorite Pokemon. However, as residual damage is what you seem to want to do, that becomes much harder against fire types (no WoW burn) and a team that has even just a single Poison type or rapid spinner. Then you are left with something like four Pokemon who have some easily exploitable 4x weaknesses, and it all goes to crap.

    I see that you use Virizion as a pseudo rain check, Landorus as a pseudo sand check, and Heatran as a better than pseudo fire check, but I think one or two of them need to be replaced with Ice Pokemon, or just other Pokemon that aren't so 4x weak. You might consider Snow Cloak Mamoswine to replace Landorus. Kyurem can be decent, especially with spin support. Froslass can be used for Snow Cloak and Sub+Disable as well, adding an extra layer of annoyance to residual damage + Sableye. I would probably keep Virizion, though, as Work Up is great on it.

    I love GoT, so I like the theme. Hopefully your team works well for you and other people can help you improve it! Because I'm certainly no expert at Pokemon nor at hail teams. :P

    Good luck!
  3. askjeevs

    askjeevs

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    Hey Arikado looks like a pretty solid team, but just wanted to give you an option for Tentacruel over HP Electric.

    As you previously stated, you only used HP Electric to hit Starmie on the switch but have you ever tried using Knock Off instead? You're playing in hail, most counters to Tenta wont enjoy having their precious Leftovers or Life Orb knocked off, also helping you scout some what your opponent mind do next.

    Try KO out and let me know if that helps :)
  4. Final Eclipse

    Final Eclipse

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    if you like hidden power electric then you can keep it but i suggest protect on tentacruel instead of hidden power electric as you can scout, and in rain can get a free hp gain also if you have burned a pokemon already and want to attack foul play would do jack with them burned maybe night shade sd it dishes a constant 100 damage status to pokemon IMO otherwise nice team
  5. Smilodon

    Smilodon

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    Foul play is a really good attack, and still unexpected (don't understand why) :
    - 2 Ko Starmie, the only really threatening spinner for Sableye (maybe with Tentacruel in the rain)
    - 2 Ko espeon, who loves switching in, as he expects taunt or W-o-w.
    - Oko some set-uppers, such as Dragonite (after SR) who think he can use DDance thanks to his lum berry.

    Anyway,really nice hail team. I like a lot your Abomasnow's set, might use it in a future team.

    I find your Virizion quite strange. You use leftovers and giga drain, that means you want it to survive a bit, but a nature and EV which makes him frail. What about SD and leaf blade ? And maybe expert belt ?
    Don't see many things that would be OKO by +1 giga drain and not by +2 leaf blade (maybe defensive cloyster ?). And that would really help you deal more dammage with CC and SE too, and even with a Jolly nature avoid this -Spd which is a bit annoying.

    If sub + Sd Gliscor is really anoying, what about air balloon and Hp ice for Heathran ? You will outspeed and OKO (or really damage) most of Gliscor, who are often bulky. But maybe Landorus and Abomasnow is enough for ice attacks.
  6. Episode36

    Episode36

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    I agree. You should probably be using Life Orb on that Virizion set. Giga drain will heal for more anyways. Life Orb + Hail will be rough, though, but you need the Life Orb to get the kills you need to get. I guess Expert Belt could work too, and might be preferable given the team and weather.
  7. Arikado

    Arikado Bouncing Fish to the eye, nigga
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    Expert Belt could be nice to make sure Dragonite will fall to Stone Edge.. And you're right. I purposely used Leftovers so it could cancel the hail damage, and because I think Virizion is just too bulky to use a Life Orb on it.

    As for Foul Play, Smilodon said it. It's very nice as a surprise attack to in-coming Pokemon and actually deals a respectful amount of damage.. I tested out Night Shade before using Foul Play, and I found Foul Play to be more useful and does more damage most of the time.
  8. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !!!
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    Hey sweet team i dont have time to give you a full rate yet although i love the idea of using landarousthanks for the spiecal mention and nice team! i will edit in suggestions later.

    Edit: i am back with some advice. there is not really anything that MUST be changed but i have a few suggestions that you might want to look into.

    firsty if you dont want to go with Blizzard in Tentacruels last spot then Protect is a nice option seeing as coupled with rain dish and black sludge you get a qaurter of your health back. also final eclipse suggested KNock off i think that is a pretty good idea as well. Also i think scald over Surf is quite good because even though it is slightly less powerful it has got a 30% burn rate that can really help Tentacruel troll Scizors and increase survivability. also it would be doing a fair amount of damage in rain anyway.

    If you give your Heatran the job of setting up Stealthrocks i suggest chucking an air baloon on it. i was a bit skeptical at first for doing it to mine due to hail eventaully wearing me down but it provides more oppurtunitys to get stealth rocks up. also if you find Heatran isnt bulky enough you can always test out a change in spread although 252 Spa Fire blasts in your opponents sun is no joke! earth power and fire blast give pretty good coverage already so if you ever wanted to swap dragon pulse for Wilo wisp/Toxic/Roar it may be worth testing or if you wanted a more offensive approach you could try out Hp Ice. much like scald on tentacruel Lavaplume is always and option over fire blast for its 30% burn rate.

    I think life orb is generally the preffered option for Virzion. but seeing as you are in Hail leftovers is actaully quite a good idea. you may want to test out other virzion sets like Cm and Swords dance. if you went with swords dance seeing as you only need one turn of setting up i would go with Life orb but if you were doing a CM set i would probally go leftovers unless you like the massive power and giga drain hp back that Lifeorb brings.

    also i believe Foul Play on Sableye is quite good because it helps you with your Espeon weakness and helps deal with reuiculus. also when versing sand i suggest leading with this little guy because he can burn tyranitar right of the bat and use taunt to Hinder Hippowdon from using roar/toxic/stealthrocks. plus Switching in sableye on tyranitar is a bit problemental because you dont want to eat a crunch stone edge or EQ and switching out abomasnow makes you the perfect victim of a hard Pursuit.

    anyway i hope i gave you heaps of advice with this team it seems like a good Balanced hail team that does well in other weathers aswell. HAIL IS SO COOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. Morgenstern

    Morgenstern

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    its great to see people that actually use hail...i had only used hail once in my life time lol but ok...first of all i think that you should add HP Ice on virizion since i had tried that virizion set before and it does better with hp ice...and also i think you should add air ballon on heatran along with removing dragon pulse for hp ice since you get better coverage..the only good thing about dragon pulse is to hit non flying dragon types harder xD....and you should instead use sludge wave on tentacruel since it does more than a 2x hp electric xD...so yeah nice team overall and hope my suggestions are useful xD
    (ivs for hp ice on virizion should be 30 atk and 30 def so you can keep 31 speed ivs)

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock
    Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Sludge Wave
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 104 Atk / 152 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Work Up
    - Close Combat
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  10. Arikado

    Arikado Bouncing Fish to the eye, nigga
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    Life Orb Virizion has truly proven it's worth.. If you wanna know what I mean, check this battle out.. xD

    Air Balloon has been useful too, I've realized that people sacrifice a Pokemon to use a neutral move on Heatran and pop the balloon just to bring in another Pokemon and EQ/Earth Power.. Which usually makes Heatran guarantee at least one kill and guarantees that he lays down stealth rocks. I've even had situations where Heatran swept half the opposite team with just Fire Blast/HP Ice and a little luck with opponent's focus blast missing. ;)

    Thanks all for the suggestions! :)
  11. Arikado

    Arikado Bouncing Fish to the eye, nigga
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    Bump

    Edited the OP with the new additions..

    Still looking on help against Ferrothorn. This mofo is just so annoying.. It spreads paralysis like crazy and then spikes/SR.. Even Heatran can't get the mofo because as I switch him in, he goes for T-Wave and switches away. I've been thinking of using HP Fire on a Pokemon.. Maybe Virizion ? But I can't really take away any moves because she needs all of them.

    If Ferrothorn is paired with Politoed, and if the opponent plays well he can very easily take care of my Heatran.. as I struggle to take both of them down because I have no reliable switch-in to Politoed besides Tentacruel.. and as I switch him in they go to Ferrothorn. And Tentacruel can't take on Ferrothorn 1on1.

    My best bet against Ferrothorn is Sableye, with WoW and taunt.
  12. Episode36

    Episode36

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    I think a combination of Sableye as you said and Virizion can help take down Ferrothorn in rain, where a strong fighting attack would be more effective than an HP fire anyways. If it's really a huge problem, you can always change one of your Pokemon for a Guts abuser and strong fighting type like Conkeldurr, so if he paralyzes you, that's even better, but I personally like Virizion. I think basically Ferrothorn in rain is a dick and there isn't much you can do about it, or many of us can do about it. :/
  13. APimpNamedSlickback

    APimpNamedSlickback

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    Hey Man, this hail team looks solid :) I am noticing one gaping weakness though.
    Sub Kyurem can be a major problem because once it sets up, it can potentially kill every pokemon on your team.
    To solve this you might be able to use your own Kyurem which could be scarfed, or use A Scizor, which is the general bane of hail teams.
    Ill do a full rate later, this is just what I saw off the top of my head :P
    Good Luck
  14. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !!!
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    Hey i am glad to see you have taken into account some of my suggestions! i think ferrothorn is a reall bitch. but if you manage to get a free switch into sableye you can taunt it then give it a burn to gradually reduce its hp and weaken its gyro ball/ powere whip. if ferrothorns are really a big pain in the arse youcould run liqiud ooze on tentacruel to help against leech seed variants althoug you probally like rain dish better but hey its still a choice! if you want you could try hidden power fire over sludge wave on tentacruel it still lets you hit grass types well but also steels! and is somewhat unpredictable! also youcould always go for knock off to get rid of Ferros lefties

    i hope i helped again because hail is so damn sick we need more good hail teams!
  15. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    Agreeing with both these comments I suggest using this set:
    Virizion @ Life Orb Lv. 100 -- Justified Trait

    Nature: Jolly - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    • Swords Dance
    • Leaf Blade
    • Close Combat
    • Stone Edge
    Nice team btw :)
  16. Arikado

    Arikado Bouncing Fish to the eye, nigga
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    I don't like SD Virizion; it doesn't have Giga Drain, and doesn't have the ability to wreck walls as much as the work up set. With Giga Drain, I can easily KO Gliscor with a little bit of prior damage, but when it's SD..

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Virizion Leaf Blade vs 252 HP/184 Def Gliscor (+Def) : 54.52% - 64.41% (2 hits to KO)

    It doesn't really cut it. Plus the HP gain from Giga Drain is just too much to give up, especially that it covers hail and LO damage a bit, too. And Virizion can't be walled by anything besides Skarmory, which can be easily taken care of. I appreciate the suggestions though. :)

    I'm still testing the HP Fire on Tentacruel, but my activity will drop a lot in the next 2-3 weeks because I have finals, so I don't really have time for internet.

    Anyone else up for a rate?

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