Most pranksters use Swagger (Klefki, Murkrow, Liepard...) and have to play 50/50 to stay alive.
Other pranksters (such as Whimsicott) are not relying on luck, but are also much easier to stop.
Maybe Swagger should be banned instead.
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Pokémon Klefki
- Thread starter Kirbles
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Other pranksters (such as Whimsicott) are not relying on luck, but are also much easier to stop.
Maybe Swagger should be banned instead.
Klefki really shouldn't use Swagger as it has much better things to do. Murkrow i don't know about as i don't use it. Liepard is really the only one i know that actually uses Swagger
All pranksters can be easily stopped depending on the situation and the moveset they run. Some pranksters can encore set up moves and set up themselves while others can taunt and stall thus becoming harder to stop as more turns pass.
Swagger is a bad move and banning a single move because of a gimmicky set is not really a good idea. Swagger can backfire while evasion boosting can not
All pranksters can be easily stopped depending on the situation and the moveset they run. Some pranksters can encore set up moves and set up themselves while others can taunt and stall thus becoming harder to stop as more turns pass.
Swagger is a bad move and banning a single move because of a gimmicky set is not really a good idea. Swagger can backfire while evasion boosting can not
I've always thought SwagPlay (particularly with Prankster) was a bit uncompetitive, but there was never a real problem with it because the main users of it had either really, really poor bulk (Liepard) or mediocre bulk and no resistances to speak of (Sableye), but Klefki has both passable bulk and the best defensive typing in the game.
To be completely honest, between priority Screens/Spikes--which are ironically not the most dangerous thing it can do--and that retarded SwagPlay set, I think Klefki should be banned.
And if would be nice if people realized that SwagPlay is not nearly as luck-based as it's made out to be...
Use Swagger on a Special attacker or something that can't hurt Klefki even at +2, just in case it gets the attack off, then set up a Sub next turn. At that point you're pretty much free to do tons of damage before you get taken down. I suppose the one bad quality the strategy has is that the other guy gets to pick which Pokemon Klefki wrecks.
To be completely honest, between priority Screens/Spikes--which are ironically not the most dangerous thing it can do--and that retarded SwagPlay set, I think Klefki should be banned.
And if would be nice if people realized that SwagPlay is not nearly as luck-based as it's made out to be...
Use Swagger on a Special attacker or something that can't hurt Klefki even at +2, just in case it gets the attack off, then set up a Sub next turn. At that point you're pretty much free to do tons of damage before you get taken down. I suppose the one bad quality the strategy has is that the other guy gets to pick which Pokemon Klefki wrecks.
There's no precedent to banning Swagger. Yes, it can be annoying to face, but it's just that: annoying. It's also a risk play style, as a +2 boost to attack is no joking matter. Admittedly, this isn't as worrisome on a special attacker, but just try surviving a +2 (possibly even +4) Adaptability from MLucario.
Klefki is the only one that doesn't need luck to SwagPlay, thanks to its excellent bulk.
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
I agree that SwagKey is not luck-based, just like Scald spamming and Iron Head Jirachi aren't. If they were they wouldn't be used after all.
These three strategies have one thing in common: even if the end result is not the optimal one they still achieve something.
A competent player will not blindly use Swagger in a situation where it could backfire. It will first set up a Substitute on something that can't touch it (very common scenario, given its defensive type), use Swagger on a predict switch-in and then use Foul Play to KO the target. People need to realize that Swagger isn't just confusion hax, but it's a pseudo-priority Swords Dance when paired wth Foul Play. Oh and on top of that it has a 50% chance to waste the opponent's turn, if it doesn't force it out.
And there's always priority Thunder Wave which cripples any non-electric or ground type without fail unless they have paralysis immunity or Rest. To put that in perspective Thundurus-I was banned in BW because of its priority Thunder Wave and Nasty Plot, so Klefki isn't very different in that regard.
In the event it does backfire... just pair it with Unaware Quagsire, who deals with physical sweepers, ground and electric types quite nicely. It also resists Klefki's fire weakness.
Needless to say, special attackers are completely screwed by this set no matter what, especially psychic and ghost types.
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Excellent bulk or not, it isnt going to survive a plus two earthquake. It relys on parafusion hax ti keep the opponent
from taking it out. I've never lost more than one pokemon against this set, and I personally find it to be annoying, but its no more annoying than say suicide chatter boomburst life orb chatot. When it works, its great, but it only works about 60% of the time. The other 40% of the time, it just took up a slot that a dual screens klefki or a spikes klefki could have occupied to set up a sweeper or to punch a significant hole in the majority of the opponents pokemon. Plus, if your opponent has a magnezone, you could have set up on it if you werent the swag keys. Instead, you have to pray for confusion hits.
Klefki shouldn't switch in something which can Earthquake and shouldn't Swagger something like this without being behind a sub.
So what? Theres about a 30% chance the opponent will switch in on a sub and hit klefki twice without taking any damage. Klefki would probably switch after the sub was broken and either have given the opponent an attack boost, or hit the opponent for minimal damage. Woot. If the opponent has magnezone or dugtrio, you cant even switch it out. You can build a team around the klefki and make it less luck based, but you could honestly build a team around a venemoth too. That doesnt make venemoth any better than it is. Both are really great luck based Mons. I'm not saying swag keys is a terrible set, I just think its the least viable in OU which is where klefki appears to be staying. Setting up a light screen for a zygarde could be just enough for it to get passed a mixmence and sweep the opponent. Spikes could force your opponent to lose its sash on dug trio and allow you to take it out with your dragon dance charizard. Stuff like this can be invaluable to a team even when klefki has been koed and both of these klefkis can still fire off thunder waves and foul plays to serve a similar, albeit lesser, offensive threat. Also, malamar could be an interesting check to swag keys. Albeit an equally gimmicky one. And also serperior when it finally gets contrary.
Huh what 30% chance are you talking about ? Against Klefki with a sub, you'll have 55% chance to break the sub and if you are not ground or electric, you'll take thunder wave, so you would have 37,5% chance to hit it a second time (and anyway Klefki can sub again to wait the miss). And if you missed the first turn (45% chance), your pokémon is dead. Your only hope is confusion to end fast enough.
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
I would agree dual screens and Spikes would be Klefki's best way to support the team if this wasn't gen 6 and the improved Defog didn't exist. While those are useful niches, don't forget you're spending several turns to set up something that can be invalidated with just one relatively common move so they're not the be-all end-all best Klefki sets.
I dunno about you guys, but Magic Bounce users can come in and ruin Swagkey's day.
Still, I agree, Swagkey is freaking annoying, but I don't believe it should be banned for the mere reason that it is super luck (get it?) based.
Still, I agree, Swagkey is freaking annoying, but I don't believe it should be banned for the mere reason that it is super luck (get it?) based.
I just spat out a number. I didnt feel like doing the math at the time. Not to mention that you wont be taking out the likes of gliscor, zygarde, tyranitar, etc. If you misread and something like infiltrator chandelure comes in, your sub is useless. If gliscor fears getting knocked out it can switch. A good player can play around it. Plus, what if I don't switch right away. What if you switch into starmie and I decide that I don't care about starmie staying alive. You lose health and a so called setup opportunity. The great thing about pokemon is that you never know what your opponent will do. Its simply not good enough to justify its use over other klefki. These are the same problems people had with stuff like whimsicott and liepard last Gen. And now look at where those two are.
They ruin Swagkey simply by not letting it do what it wants to do: T-Wave and Swagger. I've switched in Espeon to a Klefki before, expecting one of 3 things: Substitute, Swagger, or T-Wave. If they Swagger or T-Wave, joke's on them, especially if it's T-Wave and now Klefki is fucked. If they Substitute, well now I KNOW they are some variant of SwagKey and nothing they do can hurt me in the slightest, so they'll be forced out unless they want to rack up damage.
And obviously Absol won't switch in until it's MEvo'd. I assuming smart players here, not drooling idiots.
I've been having tons of fun with a team comprised entirely of prankster. It might be "luck" based but the odds are against the attacker rather than the prankster users. The hugest problems with my team though is contrary serperior (fuck dw Ou) and 252/252+ chansey takes tiny amounts of damage. But as for your standard bulky/offense team then 6 prankster users has a very manageable time dealing with
As an example of hard proof of what a completely luck based strategy can do, I made a swagplay team.
mandibuzz, klefki, sableye as my swagplay users.
trevenant for curse, which bypasses substitute.
Tyranitar for lead/weather damage/SR
Excadrill for revenge kills/rapid spin
This team went 30-14 in the time I tested it, ending up with a 1850 rating. As you can see it's not the best strategy/foolproof, but it is pretty damn good.
mandibuzz, klefki, sableye as my swagplay users.
trevenant for curse, which bypasses substitute.
Tyranitar for lead/weather damage/SR
Excadrill for revenge kills/rapid spin
This team went 30-14 in the time I tested it, ending up with a 1850 rating. As you can see it's not the best strategy/foolproof, but it is pretty damn good.
I think the issue with spikes klegki is that people are releazing that it is getting harder and harder to rapid spin with these durable spinblockers like gengar trevenant jellicent etc.. defog is easier to use,albeit limited distribution, than rapid spin. Defoggers compete with spinners for a teamslot. Most defoggers have access to some sort of recovery while the only rapid spinners with recovery are starmie cryognal and avalugg.
The point im making is that priority spikes is good but it can be blown away in one move with little ease. At least dual screens and swagkey can support the rest of the team with its awesome resistances and movepool.
The point im making is that priority spikes is good but it can be blown away in one move with little ease. At least dual screens and swagkey can support the rest of the team with its awesome resistances and movepool.
Blowing away spikes is a lot easier said than done. Even with choice specs Modest Magnezone trapping Klefki, it's guaranteed at least 2 layers of spikes unless a crit happens. Defog is good, but it also blows away your own hazards. There's a good chance the pokemon you're using to defog cannot harm Klefki (unless it's Scizor or Empoleon). It runs the risk of getting paralyzed or poisoned too.
Magic Bounce pokemon even with their low attack are harmed by Foul play and can't do any significant damage back.
Magic Bounce pokemon even with their low attack are harmed by Foul play and can't do any significant damage back.
Fire blast pal, fire blast.
57/91/87 defenses are passable, but not excellent. Not with stuff like Mega Lucario running around.
Ok, I've had the chance to try the swag keys set now that I've been bad mouthing. It's silly and it is better than I have made it sound so far, but it is not some invincible set that others are making it out to be. Without a sub up, I had a lot of problems with just about any ground type, Lucario (especially the mega), fire types and basically anything that could break a sub with faster priority. Once I could get a free sub, Mega kangeskhan, infiltrator users, boomburst users, avalugg, a lucario with bonerush, apparently that's still a thing, other pranksters with taunt or sub, and zygarde. Most other things still pose a threat, but a much smaller one. Skarmory, easily pushes it out as well and sets up hazards. Still pretty useful. I like the screens set more.
Yeah, Zygarde is a big problem for any SwagKeys Klefki, except the versions that carry Toxic. I think this set will eventually die, most likely when we get Landorus-T out.
you aren't going to be a good swagplay user in one day dude. Once you get down how to use it and compliment it, it is much stronger then what you have described. from your brief description I already know you are using it terribly terribly wrong and still probably doing decent with it.
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