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Pokémon Klefki

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Kirbles, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Edgar81539

    Edgar81539

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    Yeah, Zygarde is a big problem for any SwagKeys Klefki, except the versions that carry Toxic. I think this set will eventually die, most likely when we get Landorus-T out.
  2. MagnetBoy

    MagnetBoy

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    you aren't going to be a good swagplay user in one day dude. Once you get down how to use it and compliment it, it is much stronger then what you have described. from your brief description I already know you are using it terribly terribly wrong and still probably doing decent with it.
  3. mac1275

    mac1275

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    I know how to use it. It's not like I didn't play gen 5. It's just a slightly better liepard. You throw a ditto into the team to force out anything that beats the keys and gets an attack boost. You add in something that can spread paralysis early so that klefki doesn't have to do everything on its own and you switch out of obvious threats like the ones I listed. It is not any better than I have described in the hands of most. I'm not going to lie to you though MagnetBoy, I am not an upper ladder player at all. I'm not the best battler. Swagkeys are really easy to use though. It doesn't take much effort at all. It is however tough to predict the opponent. That's a lot of the battle with Klefki. One battle I fought a guy who would switch back and forth between walls on a predictable foul play or swagger. Another guy had whimsicott and used Klefki as setup fodder since it apparently was running 0 attack IVs. Most teams have an answer to swag keys just like last generations whimsicotts and liepards. I'm not going to say I won't get better as I use the keys more, but I honestly don't find swagkeys reliable enough to use it over a more traditional mon. I loved how I could generally set up on a lot more than liepard ever could, but in the end it's just a high risk high reward gimmick. And when I say gimmick I mean it with the utmost respect. My time here today has been spent basically trying to show it is not an unstoppable force like some make it out to be. The comments on here make it seem like the second coming of gen 1 toxic wrap dragonite or something. Anyway, I see no reason for it not to be viable as a slap to the face of the enemy, but it should not be considered the end all be all of klefki sets and I personally believe that the screens set is better. If I seem passionate about it, it's simply because I a) don't enjoy battling against these things and b) don't find it to be "broken" in any way shape or form.
    CyclicCompound and Karoshi like this.
  4. MagnetBoy

    MagnetBoy

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    if you aren't a top ladder player then why shit on it =[ I have multiple accounts in the top 500 so i've played the new metagame extensively, and it's extremely strong in the right environment. Sableye + klefki can put an end to any sweeper you can think of together, and can stall almost the entire metagame. The only pokemon the 2 of them combined don't have an answer to is gliscor, but then again he doesn't have many answers besides strong special attackers.


    actually it feels stupid to just spout off like this, if you want to play against my swag team just send over a request to "no status plz" the account I am on currently. I will gladly play you with it and attempt to show you what I mean. (I assume we are talking about the OU metagame btw, as I dont bother with pokebank since it isn't actually real yet)
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
    Soulgazer, DunnoBro and TROP like this.
  5. mac1275

    mac1275

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    Good game MagnetBoy. For everyone's reference, he beat me with his swagger team. His klefki did relatively well, but I will not back down from my opinion. He won with superior battling skill and impressive team building. Like I have said previously, albeit in a seemingly abrasive and condescending way, it is perfectly viable strategy, I just find it somewhat more luck based than most other strategies. I will admit that with the correct supporting cast the strategy works quite well. But you need this kind of support to make it work correctly, so don't just throw swag keys on a team and call it a day. Maybe in time, I will learn to appreciate the set, but right now I still find it a tad bit gimmicky.
  6. jle1076

    jle1076

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    So I'm about to breed this, can someone give me the exact swagkey set? I'd really appreciate it as it's not on the home page
  7. LoneWolf X14

    LoneWolf X14

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    Why are most sets running a bold nature instead of an impish one it doesnt take away from his speed and adds to defense your never gonna use klefki's special attack so why not take away from tht
  8. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Bold is -Attack. Which Klefki never ever uses. Draining Kiss is a Special attack, if you want to run it on Klefki.
  9. LoneWolf X14

    LoneWolf X14

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    ^ well i guess it depends on the type of klefki your building.I'm planning on using the dual screens set and now tht you mention draining kiss thts a good option forgot foul play doesn't use your attack stat
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  10. LoneWolf X14

    LoneWolf X14

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    Ok so on the Dual Screens set its says to use a bold nature 252 def evs but that maximizes defense only. Now what if you wanted to keep its defenses even what would be the correct spread
  11. Uberbiscit

    Uberbiscit

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    How is this pest countered? I use a rotom H which is immune to T wave and foul play does not do that much, but they either swagger me or switch :/
    This pokemon raises my blood pressure every time I see it on team preview lol!
  12. mac1275

    mac1275

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    Switches and quakes are your best bet. Unless you have an infiltrator mon. Clerics such as florges are often very useful against klefki as well. Oh and mega kangeskhan is helpful too with its bulk and double quakes. It does hate the status though. Honestly, you just have to predict it and play accordingly.
    Uberbiscit likes this.
  13. Drewsitz

    Drewsitz

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    I have had pretty decent success with klefki using swagger, tw, spikes and foul play.

    Confusion will force a switch and thunder wave cripples sweepers pretty well. With both in effect you have a boosted foul play and a 37.5% chance that they will get a move off. if they opt To staying in.

    With proper support this little guy can really be quite effective
  14. FLYINGDAVEno2

    FLYINGDAVEno2

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    Call me crazy but I think this set has a tiny bit of potential.

    Klefki @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: Not sure on best spread, probably HP 252/ Def 252/ SpDef 4
    Bold Nature
    - Foul Play/Torment
    - Toxic
    - Rest
    - Recycle
    A toxic stall set using ChestoRest, but it has priority Rest and a priority Recycle to restore the Chesto Berry.
    As for the first move Foul Play stops you from being Taunt bait and nails Aegislash but Torment can be handy, as many Pokemon only carry one move that dispatches Klefki, allowing it to RestRecyle Toxic stall some more things.
    Obviously not effective versus any Steel or Poison types, but hey that's what team mates are for.
    Boltaway likes this.
  15. bottomsupfellas

    bottomsupfellas

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    Nov 20, 2013
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    Would a set like this hold any use?

    Klefki @ Light Clay
    Prankster
    252/0/252/0/4/0
    -Thunder Wave
    -Toxic
    -Light Screen
    -Reflect

    Just basically serves as support. Period. I feel like it would partner great with Azumarill and M-Mawile for sweeping.
  16. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    With this set up, you're essentially Taunt-bait. I'd choose between T-Wave or Toxic, not both at the same time. It'll come down to what kind of support the rest of your team needs from Klefki. Does your team have a problem with fast sweepers? T-wave. Walls? Toxic. Run Foul Play as a replacement for either one so you don't resort to Struggle if the enemy uses Taunt on you.
  17. JustLetMePlay

    JustLetMePlay

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    Anything that doesn't carry faster Prankster Taunt gets Statused or can't stop a screen from going up before they can screw over Klefki and anything with faster priority Taunt outright beats Klefki anyway. Foul Play isn't going to make much difference at all in the scenario you described, you're forced to switch against taunt users after a turn no matter what.
  18. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    kokoloko I am quite disappoint. To think you'd choose to ban Klefki as a whole just because of a strategy that doesn't nearly have as high a success rate as you'd make it out to be. It is incredibly ironic that 2 pages ago I was arguing with McGrrr about the prospect of Klefki being useless, and now I'm defending that Klefki (SwagKey specifically, banning the other sets is completely unjustifiable) isn't nearly half as broken as many players make it out to be.

    Yes, I'm aware that its decent bulk and typing makes it the most consistent SwagPlay user in the game (which is saying a lot in itself, considering the set's premise). However, Klefki does have a couple of hard stops that can be commonly seen in standard play, Gliscor being the most common one, and is such a good response it can render SwagKey an outright liability by abusing boosted EQs and attacks to threaten Klefki and the rest of its team. Not only that, but Klefki still has to play its coinflip game against regular matchups. Klefki has the (minuscule) upper hand in these situations, but while Klefki's bulk is passable it isn't invincible and can still be worn down by the very same element of luck it needs to succeed. There are also few opponents it can truly take advantage of what with Swagger boosting their power, meaning Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Skarmory suddenly don't become easy setup bait should they manage to shrug off the hax.

    In any case, why would you ban Klefki altogether if SwagKey is the one that is (questionably) hard to deal with? The other sets, namely Spiking ones, definitely have their own niches in the meta and shouldn't have to suffer for it. Maybe I've just been unfathomably lucky and haven't lost a single Pokemon to the tens of SwagKeys I've encountered (most do not even involve hard-counters like Magnezone), and maybe SwagKey may just possibly be in a league of its own using a strategy that can be duplicated by several other Pokemon, but banning all Klefkis because of one is ludicrous.
    0- Atk Xatu (95 Dark Physical) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 74-88 (22.1 - 26.3%)
    Truly, Xatu stands no chance.

    The Psychic-type Magic Bouncers actually fare better than Mega-Absol in the face of Foul Play, due to them being able to afford minimum Attack IVs, so long as they pack recovery. While Espeon wants a boosting move + Stored Power to swing the matchup even further into its favor, Xatu pretty much manhandles SwagKey already with Night Shade as well as Heat Wave (via PokeBank).
    CyclicCompound and Karoshi like this.
  19. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

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    I don't think that Kokoloko is arguing that it's overpowered, but that its existence hinders a competitive environment. I tend to agree, since dealing with Klefki always involves a series of dice rolls to determine who comes out on top, which isn't the kind of metagame Smogon likes to encourage.
    Magnemite and BlackLight like this.
  20. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    The thing is Smogon never really had that much issues pertaining SwagPlay before. Liepard had Encore and STAB Foul Play back in its time, and while it was actually pretty damn threatening there was only petty talk but no real action taken or outright dismissal regarding it. I don't see why Klefki all of a sudden would warrant any special attention as if it set a new high for SwagPlay. Yes, Klefki has good defensive typing and usable bulk while Steel doesn't resist Dark anymore, but Electric-types can no longer be paralyzed while Klefki doesn't even get STAB from Foul Play. If anything, changes like these made Liepard even more dangerous due to it having access to Encore as an alternative to the now slightly nerfed Thunder Wave (taking hits better isn't as good as avoiding hits altogether) and Fairies not taking STAB Foul Play nearly as well as Gen-V Steels did.

    Tell me again why Klefki has somehow set a whole new standard for itself that it be banned while other SwagPlay users are left in the dust. If Klefki got reliable recovery then we may have something to talk about, but as it stands...
  21. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

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    The difference between Klefki and Liepard is that Klefki can actually take a hit and doesn't have garbage typing. Even though Liepard was garbage in OU, it's still not unreasonable to say that what it did in games was "uncompetitive." You underplay Klefki's usefulness in comparison to other prankster/swagger/foul play users. Klefki has set a new standard for sets like that simply because it's the only one that has usable bulk/typing. Since I don't know that you're clear about my opinion regarding Klefki, I just want to reiterate that I am not suggesting that it is overpowered, but uncompetitive.
  22. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    lol just so you know, this is the only time i will respond to you because i can already tell you have no intention of listening to actual experience and will continue to use theorymon to back up your flawed reasoning.

    for one, lady alex is right. klefki is not what i'd call "overpowering", but it gives off that exact same sense of helplessness that you got when facing a moody pokemon in early BW (but you were not around or this)--an ability which was banned for being totally uncompetitive. you're comparing liepard to klefki as if liepard was ever viable in an OU environment lol... are you serious? the very fact that people are using swagplay klefki and getting away with it in OU should give you an idea of how unfair that comparison is.

    re: thunder wave not affecting electric types - lol ok what a totally relevant thing to say. there's rotom-w and... what? nothing? ok cool.

    not to mention that thunder wave isn't the only possible fourth move on swagplay klefki... =/ spikes is probably better actually. the idea is to use the free turns you get from your opponent switching/hitting itself to set up a few layers. this way you fo both short and long-term damage to the opponent's team.

    i was going to say a couple other things but i cant remember what they were not and its probably not worth my time to try and do so, oh well
  23. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

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    I will reiterate my opinion about SwagKey: forget about Swagger for a second. The other 3 moves are Substitute, Foul Play and either Thunder Wave or Spikes, all perfectly viable and useful moves.
    Then there's Swagger, which is not used just for the hax, but it's for all intents and purposes a priority Swords Dance when used with Foul Play. The hax part is the icing on the cake. The catch is that it can backfire if and only if you're stupid enough to use it at the wrong time (re: when the opponent's physical ground types are still around). The opponent switches out to get rid of the confusion? Who cares, it's more Spikes/Thunder Wave/Lefties recovery for Klefki.

    Thundurus-I was banned for its priority Thunder Wave and Nasty Plot and Klefki's modus operandi is very similiar except it trades power for much better defensive qualities. Think about it.
  24. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    - Now I wouldn't call Dark a better typing than Steel / Fairy defensively, but getting STAB on Foul Play does add to its potency. Even Gliscor would be hard pressed to take +2 Foul Plays of that caliber.

    - I do acknowledge Klefki's advantages over other SwagPlay users, namely its usable bulk and typing, but is that really enough to put it a whole league over other SwagPlay users? What of Sableye, who has comparable bulk (and arguably typing), Prankster Will-o-Wisp to neuter the Swagger boost without weakening Foul Play while having access to Recover; or Liepard's Encore granting it easy leeway to initiate the SwagPlay chain? What I'm saying is that while Klefki has distinguished itself as one of the better SwagPlay users, its advantages are not quite enough to warrant a ban compared to other SwagPlayers IMHO.

    - I have also acknowledged that it is pretty uncompetitive overall as opposed to overpowering, but is it really so hard to deal with compared to other SwagPlay users? Banning SwagKey (not Klefki as a whole, since it has other niches in the meta, akin to Liepard in BW NU) would likely just open new doors to (several) other users proposing the banning of SwagPlay altogether, because, in their opinion, "Why not? SwagKey got the boot, so the others should too!" I'll be getting to this in my response to kokoloko...
    mac1275 and Calm_Mind_Latias like this.
  25. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    for the same reason we don't ban speed boost blaziken or spikes + stealth rock deoxys or sand rush excadrill...
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