ORAS Ubers Kyogre on Steroids

Hi, some of you may know me as a dominant Little Cup player, and others know me as arguably the worst BW1 NU player of all time. Although I've recently started building for other tiers, most notably LC and NU, I needed to make a few Ubers squads for my team to use in UPL. As great as the Aero-Forry team Dice / BKC / myself all worked on in SPL is, I knew that eventually our ORAS players would need other teams. Some of my players built ORAS teams on their own, and others got teams from me or other sources. I wanted to try two sacrilegious Pokemon on the same team that I knew had viable niches, just to show they were not as bad as people thought. Those Pokemon are Swords Dance Mega Lucario and physical Primal Kyogre. Physical Kyogre is a neat CM Arceus check that simultaneously breaks down checks for the team's main win condition (SURPRISE - Geomancy Xerneas!) whereas the latter breaks down walls surprisingly effectively with SR support while revenging weakened GeoXern with Bullet Punch. It's also a decent Darkrai switchin once it has slept something, which is nice for offense to have.

This is one of the more successful teams I made, as it currently stands 2-0 in UPL. That's right: Mega Lucario has a 100% win rate in UPL right now! C- rank my ass, I admit it's an average Pokemon but it has enough of a niche to be worth using on certain teams, particularly ones a bit weak to Xerneas but unwilling to use a momentum killer like Mega Scizor or Aegislash. Unfortunately, the team is fairly weak to SD Arceus-Ground so I was essentially forced to use Yveltal, a Pokemon I do not particular care for (Mega Salamence, as ridiculously great as it is, does not fit here because it loses to Ice Beam variants / cannot revenge Xerneas). Other than that, I liked using this team in playtesting and I especially liked watching physical Kyogre kick ass in UPL.

Teambuilding process:



I started around a simple offensive core of Geomancy Xerneas and physical Kyogre; the latter which softens or outright murders Xerneas checks like Blissey and Primal Groudon. In return, Xerneas wins games because it's a Xerneas.



The Steel-types Xerneas is weak to give the best Pokemon in the game almost free switches, so mine as well include it. It also sets SR and gives me a Kyogre and Xerneas check.



Cheating a bit here, as I initially was using Mega Salamence as my Ground immunity / Mega in conjunction with a Calm Mind Ghost Arceus, but found Mence had difficulty with Ice Beam Groundceus and was also not pleased with how "standard" (re: predictable) the team was turning out. I changed things up and decided to use SD Lucario to harass stall teams with SR support, and opted for the mediocre physically defensive Yveltal in the other slot to check Ground types and lure Klefki in with Heat Wave. Yveltal is also a pretty good Mewtwo check, a Pokemon that is extremely underrated in this metagame.




Finally, I added Extreme Killer to form another neat little offensive core; once Lucario breaks something like Groudon / Yveltal / Lugia / whatever down, this has a nice chance to clean.


In depth:



Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 136 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Geomancy
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Geomancy Xerneas is still one of the most deadly Pokemon in the game, and unquestionably one of the easiest to build around. Once your opponent's Steel is sufficiently weakened (or in Klefki's case, dead), chance are this thing is going to put in a ton of work. Just be careful about setting up a Geomancy too early (unless you want to break down a Primal Groudon or Ho-Oh for Lucario / EKiller). The Speed investment outruns Screens Deoxys-S after a Geomancy, as well as Xerneas attempting to barely creep Deoxys-S. The 24 Defense EV's are pedantic as hell but give Genesect a Special Attack boost and pads Xerneas's bulk vs EKiller, improving its odds of living a +2 Extreme Speed after Stealth Rock. I've considered using Focus Blast over Hidden Power Ground to nail Ferrothorn, but with Mega Lucario and a Heat Wave Yveltal on the team I'm not too worried about it; it's a viable option though considering it does the same amount of damage to Primal Groudon, Jirachi, and Klefki. Since I'm not using Stone Edge on Lucario, I feel Thunder is mandatory to severely damage Ho-Oh at +2, so I cannot fit Aromatherapy anywhere. This is really a simple set and whatever member of Game Freak came up with the move Geomancy should be forced to watch a year's worth of Jacksonville Jaguars games.


Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam

Possibly the most fun Pokemon I've ever paired a standard Xerneas with, Physical Kyogre's Waterfall hits about as hard as regular Groudon's Life Orb-boosted Earthquake. This is really bad news for special walls that attempt to come in and deal with Kyogre, especially Blissey. Hell, LATIOS is 2HKOed by Waterfall! Trickroom and I talked about physical Kyogre very early on in ORAS and we both liked this set on paper. While it isn't easy to just slap onto a team, since CM Kyogre checks CM Arceus almost as well as this set does, Kyogre still spams Thunder Wave better than almost any other Pokemon because of easily it lures Latios / Grass Arceus / Lugia (if SR isn't up) / other Pokemon.

Ice Beam is chosen over Avalanche in the last slot to kill Salamence; Waterfall does enough to the Lati's anyway and I despise Avalanche's shitty mechanics (only does 60 damage to pokemon that switch in). Earthquake's purpose of 3HKOing defensive Groudon and 2HKOing offensive variants is obvious. The satisfaction of a Kyogre wrecking Groudon with Earthquake, however, needs to be experienced before you can truly understand the feeling.



Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 204 SpD / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail

Primal Groudon is on almost every competitive team (although some stall can do without it and only the Rock Polish variant fits on HO in my opinion), and there's good reason for it. Groudon checks half the metagame while easily paralyzing any Defog user not named support Ground Arceus, which is massive Kyogre bait anyway. Dragon Tail further punishes Lati@s and can phaze out stuff like Calm Mind Arceus in an emergency, although it does not hit Xerneas. I use Precipice Blades instead of Earthquake for the chance to 2HKO Mega Sableye, which is pretty cool. Stealth Rock is a good move in ORAS Ubers or any metagame for that matter, and the other three moves provides the best chance of Groudon keeping Stealth Rock up. Toxic is an option over Thunder Wave, as it's an excellent Lugia / Ground Arceus lure, but on Offense I find TWave more useful; especially a team as slow and bulky as this.

The EVs allow Groudon to take a +2 Life Orb-boosted Earthquake from Extreme Killer after switching into SR once. 40 Speed creep is a lot, more than enough to get the jump on most other support Groudon. The Special bulk still allows Groudon to take any attack from Geo Xern at full health and paralyze it; Substitute Xerneas is essentially extinct so you don't need to worry about clicking Thunder Wave anymore.


Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Sucker Punch

I don't really like Yveltal that much to be honest with you D: but it's necessary here to keep Rock Polish Groudon, Mewtwo, and Ground Arceus in check. It can also smack Klefki for good damage (40-45%) with Heat Wave, which I find more useful than Taunt in this metagame. Sucker Punch provides more priority, Roost allows this to check threats throughout the course of a match, and Foul Play hits physical attackers really hard. This set is complete bait for Xerneas and CM Arceus unfortunately, so doubling with this every now and then isn't a bad idea.

A move I've considered over Heat Wave is Knock Off. Knock Off still cripples Ferrothorn and Klefki by removing their Leftovers, but Yveltal cannot repeatedly punish them with it. Also, triple STAB seems a little excessive, although all three moves accomplish different goals anyway. I'm going to keep Heat Wave for now though.



Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

With the way the Ubers subforum talks about Mega Lucario, you'd think it's as bad as Bug Arceus. Uh no, it's an extremely flawed and somewhat niche Pokemon for sure, but on the right team it can still so a fuckton of damage. Please examine the following calculations for more information:

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Lugia: 308-364 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (needs Multiscale to be broken but after rocks, this is probably dying)
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 310-365 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 292-344 (96 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Primal Groudon: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Electric: 244-288 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 192-228 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Against defensive teams with mons like Ferrothorn, it shouldn't have a hard time getting up a Swords Dance and going to work. Against offensive teams, it is able to handle Darkrai after it sleeps something and can revenge Xerneas, as well as dent stuff like Kyogre. I rarely use this Pokemon, as most offensive teams are much better off running Mega Salamence. However, I'm pleased with the amount of work this put in UPL. It's really not "bad" - C+ in the viability list seems right for it. The downside is that Lucario's priority is not very strong, so it needs the extra priority this team can provide to help finish off threats. Also, Mega Salamence's existence is a godsend for Lucario. More and more Arceus are running enough physical bulk to handle +1 Double Edges. They take out Speed investment in order to increase their bulk, which opens them up to +2 Close Combats. Lucario's 112 Speed might not be great, but it's still very good in a meta where not everyone is running max Speed Arceus.



Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

Most people run Jolly Life Orb Extreme Killer Arceus. I sometimes do this as well on teams that really need to Speed-tie opposing Extreme Killer and outrun...well, Mega Lucario! However, since literally no one else uses Lucario and most Mega Gengar run Protect to safely Mega Evolve against this Pokemon, I don't even bother with max Speed on this team. Lum Berry + Earthquake will still handle anyone attempting to use Rock Arceus as an Extreme Killer "check," and bulky Arceus is really cool against balance teams that struggle to kill this before it sets up to +4. Extreme Speed and Swords Dance are self-explanatory and Earthquake has great synergy with Xerneas in hitting Steel-types hard. Shadow Claw is used in the last slot to hit Giratina-O. This set will not beat Wisp Ghost Arceus reliably, but most competent players will be weary of using that Arceus as their initial check to this anyway since Refresh and (to a lesser extent) Life Orb variants give Ghostceus a very hard time. Stone Edge is an option for phys def Yveltal but whatever, that set invites Xerneas anyway and is the easiest double in the world. I'm not worried about it.

Threat List:

SD Ground Arceus: Can win once Yveltal is sufficiently weakened. Weakened ones will lose to bulky Extreme Killer

Fast Extreme Killer: See above, although somewhat less threatening.

Mixed Rock Polish Groudon: Thank goodness hardly anyone else uses this set! It is remarkably threatening to this team.

CM Ghost Arceus with Wisp: Can be paralyzed by Groudon and Kyogre, but after a CM isn't fun to deal with since it can cripple physical Kyogre with a burn.

Lugia + Defog Arceus: This team can usually keep rocks up, but if the opponent uses Arceus as their defog user -- especially Arceus-Ground -- keeping Rocks up will be more difficult than it would be vs Latias.

Mega Salamence / Ho-Oh: Zero flying resists and the latter can burn Yveltal. Fortunately, both are SR weak and have an awful time switching into anything directly. Ho-Oh rarely come in on Lucario until they're certain it is not carrying Stone Edge.


Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-55867 Lasagne vs. Malefic in UPL. Lucario is a good Genesect check and can savage opposing teams when their Arceus is paralyzed. Kyogre weakens both Groudon and Blissey for Xerneas, although Las didn't need Xern to win.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-59002 Papai Noel vs Mega Swampert in UPL. Lucario can lead vs. both Aerodactyl and Forretress and Mega Evolve, making it a solid option vs those teams. The crit was devastating but Swampert misplayed by not setting up a SD with Ghostceus. Noel did a great job Sucker Punching before finishing Xerneas off with Extreme Speed. Fun match.

Pastebin of the importable: http://pastebin.com/WccdZfXg

Shout-outs:

Makeup: This group's been around for around a year now, and is the main reason I started using Skype for Smogon purposes instead of solely IRL purposes. You're all really cool (insert smiley face here)

Arcticblast: Tier Leader #1 and lord Doubles player. I still have no idea how the fuck to play doubles but you're really good at it!
atomicllamas: Tier Leader #2 and lord RU player, you've pretty much carried the Erotic Explouds on your back. FUCK the smog voters for not granting you what is rightfully yours: the cutest AND meanest user awards.
Aurora: One of the users I've known since the beginning of my Smogon days. Amazingly funny and easygoing, and has gotten much better at mons recently. Keep up the great work as a global Driver (%)!
Biosci: One of the more traditionally active people in calls, and another great Doubles player. I always get you and Arctic confused in calls though x_x. Speaking of which we hardly ever do calls anymore, RIP.
Blitzamirin: Easily one of the best Moderators (@) on PS! at the moment; also one of the few who is competent in Firebot.
Cherub Agent: Amazingly pleasant user whose playtesting in various tiers has been appreciated. If I ever travel to Germany we need to meet up for a beer.
hollywood: xD amazing user and friend alike, and I've known you since I started frequenting PS. My NU teams will not be so Vanilluxe-weak from now on, I can assure you!
Imanalt: UConn will only be outscored by a 1.8:1 ratio next year yn. Whenever they get good enough to challenge Vermont I will have to come visit. Also a near auto-win in premier leagues, along with Las.
Isa: Don't see you as much as some of the others but it's nice talking to you when I do see you on!
jrp: (inlove) Unluckiest player I have ever seen, no wonder why you hate Pokemon so much. Still you're cool and have the most cheerful laugh in the history of ever.
Lasagne: Another player who virtually guarantees the success of whatever PL team he graces. Unfortunately I know as much about anime as Kim Jong-un, sorry about that D:
(makeup): My LC tutor! Your stories are always inspiring man, and everything I do in the LC community is to make you proud!! (sun)
michael: MIA for awhile due to IRL kicking in, but you're amusing as hell and are dearly missed. Also, you're an excellent model for how I should conduct myself as a Leader (&) on PS
MJB: The creator of by far the strongest Ubers player ever: the dreaded mjbot. Always nice to see a (former) PS upper staff member with a sense of humor.
Nova: Clutch win over hyw bro, Omastar went 2-0 this UPL! It's always a pleasure talking to you & thanks for the BW OU teams, even though you know i'm AIDS at that tier :).
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shaymin: (SUN) thought about putting you with the PC people but I see you more here so here you are.
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TalkTakesTime: Another user I've vented to about PS stuff, although not much recently bc I am focused on the Ubers community at the moment. Another great person & reasons I have stuck around on Smogon for so long
tape: Cute user, it's been nice talking to you so far!
tennisace: The colts should be able to close the gap on the Patriots this year. Another WR is just what we needed to stop the run yn
No idea how to tag The Wolf, but I didn't forget you!

PokeCommunity: I've been busy dealing with Ubers drama shit, but I promise I'll be around more this summer to hang out on the server!

antemortem: I'm better at LC and life than you are, but you're still a good user i guess. Your team is losing to mine in PSPL though.
Frizy: I'm counting you here because I see you on the server sometimes. Good user, and another person I've known since the beginning of my Smogon days.
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srinator: Official Sweep slayer and the only person on the server apart from DA with a puncher's chance to beat me in mons. Also very edgy D:
Winry: Could have put you in the mmm crowd but I first started talking to you on PC. One of the nicest people I've met on any site.
Zebraiken: Cool guy, not active on PC anymore for obvious and understandable reasons but you're still the main reason I got a chance to prove myself in SPL 5. Always feel free to stop by!
Thoughts: Was shocked to see you on PC but damn, you're chill as fuck. I'll be on more once Ubers is settled!

Don't think Sanguine / Wolf / Castform / StarryWindyetc. have Smogon accounts, but I'll list them here anyway.

Ubers community: Tired so I'll only do a few writeups but ya...Good Evening!

shrang: Long time friend and fellow ladder troll. We don't agree on everything by any means, but despite any philosophical differences we might have it's always a pleasure to talk to you.
trickroom: Probably the first elite player to take me seriously as a player, and someone I talk to whenever I see him on. Mega Slowbro is an innovation! Drown All :D
Hack: Another long time friend and one of the stronger Ubers players on the site. Let's meet up for some Gen 5 games at some point :o
dice: ty for the opportunity to play in SPL this year. Although I didn't get you the record I deserved, the team support was greatly appreciated as I was far too lazy to build optimal teams. Long live Aero-Forry.
Fireburn: Ubers will be alright in the end..feeling much more confident about that recently.

BKC Melee Mewtwo (hi honey :D) ZoroarkForever Bossness (top 5 BW Ubers player :D)steelphoenix aim Jibaku Theorymon yohoE Nayrz Joryn Haruno orch absdaddy Lord Outrage Imma Fly Blim Hugendugen @Haxium and every Dracomaster ever, as well as many I am forgetting

Other skype groups (mmm / the stable or w/e it's called / team channels / etc):

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Not including IRC channel shoutouts bc too tired, sorry :\
 
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Nice team sweep. I would describe this as a well thought of team and a solid one. But I mostly like the innovation with ogre and the use of luke while making a solid team so yh gj.
Just one concern i can think about now besides your threat list is the classic HO. Deo S set up rocks fairly easily and you don't have anyway to remove them. Which makes Yveltal vulnerable to ekiller with stone edge and even without stone edge and hence limits greatly its switch ins. So that might be an issue paired with the other offensive threats.But with twave on ogre and dtail+twave on don it can stop mence,xerneas from setting up so yeah I think the classic HO is not an easy machup for your team but it's definitely playable.Anyway I think charti berry on yveltal gives more insurance in general here.But it's obvious that this team lose a lot of power when revealed because people will expect the twaves and the offensive ogre from now on.yh for me its the type of team that is way more dangerous when the sets are hidden.
But nice rmt and good team.
 
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I don't know this metagame but since I was tagged, I'll post a comment.

Seeing as this was posted in the RMT section, it is statistically safe to assume your team is absolute ass.

I can't help you more than that but I wish you good luck on your journey to become a Pokemon Master!

P.S.: Including replays in RMTs is cringey as fuck. I had hoped you were better than that.
 
Hi Sweep, this is a great team for sure :D I am not an elite player though lol, that's an overstatement. I still know a bit about ORAS so I will give some comments here :D

Mega Lucario looks sexy as hell in this team, with its extremely powerful Close Combats and I do agree it's very underrated. The problem of Lucario can be its low base Speed in normal forme, that one turn could be annoying because things like Latias, Rayquaza and defensive Arceus will outrun you :( Mega Lucario OHKOes slower Arceus formes at +2 easily but if you are not mega yet, they can burn you :( Mega Lucario made Terrakion look shit in BW Ubers lol. The best part is Giratina is also rare as hell, an otherwise shaky check to it. Ho-Oh doesn't like coming in on Close Combats and you do have Primal Kyogre as a check to it.

Honestly, I don't like Yveltal in this team :P I can't find anything else to replace it though other than Lugia but that sucks even more in this team. Defensive Yveltal just looks too passive for this team. Like Lord Outrage said, with rocks down, Yveltal falls to SD Stone Edge Arceus, which makes it an unreliable check.

I don't know how useful Hidden Power Ground is on Xerneas, but I think you can try out Aromatherapy. It can be clutch if the opponent burns poor Kyogre or stuff like Sableye managed to suicide burn Mega Lucario.

Mega Mewtwo X with Iron Tail is a complete pest to this team :( It outruns Lucario, and can 2HKO Groudon, Yveltal and Kyogre with Low Kick after rocks. Iron Tail KOes Xerneas :( Thankfully it can't get a free switch in on anything, but if it does get in safely, Low Kick spamming hurts. Another thing is this team doesn't like facing opposing Mega Lucario ;) Close Combat hurts everyone. Arceus is slower. Thankfully, Lucario can't setup on anyone in this team, they won't know Arceus is slower and most can beat it one-on-one although Mega Lucario can tank a Heat Wave from Yveltal, you priority moves will take it down :p

Yeah Specially Offensive RP Groudon is a big threat but your own Primal Groudon can take a hit (SpA EVs means less Atk :P) and Precipice them back. Arceus can pick it off from there. Yveltal just can't take Fire Blasts and stuff like Lava Plume from Defensive PDon can smack Yveltal hard especially when it burns.

sweep said:
Physical Kyogre is a neat CM Kyogre check
I think you made a typo there, should be CM Arceus check ;) Waterfall is an easy 2HKO on most Arceus formes and base 160 SpD is sexy enough to stomach a few Judgments. I like physical Kyogre, as like you said, it pairs up well with Xerneas.

You made another solid team Sweep! Congrats! I am sure Mega Slowbro isn't as awesome as Mega Lucario to be honest LOL because Mega Lucario actually wrecks slowly stall teams easily, it doesn't care much about Lugia due to its Steel-typing and it can spam Iron Tail or Close Combat.
PS: Mega Slowbro walls everyone in your team except Xerneas! Calm Mind Mega Slowbro can be threatening, but it is a shitty Pokemon in general :P Only Xerneas can smash Iron Defense Slowbro ;) Anyway, that threat doesn't exist LOL.
 

haxiom

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Hey Sweep,

This is obviously a very nice team- I would say its one of the more interesting builds in ORAS I've seen too. First of all, I disagree that you are especially weak to standard offense builds, because your team offers very few setup opportunities, and after that, you have three forms of priority that act as a safety net against setup sweepers. At a glance, it appears easy to overwhelm, but the more I look at the build, the more I'm convinced that it doesn't have too difficult a time against offense (it's not a perfect matchup for you, but I wouldn't say you're that weak to it.

I guess I also feel like something irks me about Yveltal, but I can't quite figure how to fix it. I'll definitely say something if anything comes to mind. I was thinking that Aromatherapy Xerneas could be good, as mentioned earlier, as it helps a bit vs those Arceus+Lugia teams that you mentioned, because you can cure Groudon's Toxic more easily in these matchups, allowing you to be a bit more aggressive. I also think that Toxic Yveltal might be worth a shot- you lose Sucker Punch or Heat Wave but I think it's not hugely problematic. It gives you a way to annoy support Ground Arceus better, since otherwise it gives you trouble.

I guess you could have some problems in overload scenarios where you also have to decide whether you want to let a win condition take damage in order to relieve pressure or something. In some matchups you just can't afford to play passively at all because you'll be flat out overwhelmed (especially since a lot of Pokemon lack recovery). There's not really a fix, more just a thing I noticed.

I didn't really have too many actual suggestions, but yeah these are my quick thoughts here.

Good luck!
 
Like antacool: Srs, if you run into shed after Arceus and Yveltal are ded, RIP!!!
Shedinja is barely viable(unviable actually) with a pokemon that gets rocks up consistently like primal groudon in oras ubers. Also sand teams are good in oras ubers and used pretty often.
 
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