1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Quality Control Kyogre (Revamp) (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers Analyses' started by Spirit, May 17, 2013.

  1. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,064
    Mention a bulky spread (EVs: 168 HP / 136 SpA / 204 Spe) for the Scarf set to outspeed Mewtwo and tank +2 Omastar after SR (while retaining a lot of his power).

    QC approved 1/3
  2. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,248
    Good luck have fun

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  3. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,764
    @Icecream are you still planning on writing this up?
  4. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,044
    Yeah, I have part of the written stuff saved somewhere else. Just give me like another week or two and I should get this done. This is a long and important analysis, so I wanna do well. If anything comes up within that time frame I'll notify you first hand.
    Jukain and Furai like this.
  5. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,820
  6. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    Why exactly 204 speed? 192 speed is enough (lets you reach 396 speed). I don't think you should include the Omastar part since you can arbitrarily add HP to the scarf set and subtract special attack to wall a ton of boosted threats, but it doesn't mean it's useful information based on how incredibly situational it is. I would only mention this spread:

    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd (spd = speed i use po teambuilder)
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    I also disagree with running max HP on Water Spout Kyogre. Kyogre's item becomes sort of useless against any other faster, mildly offensive Dialga or Groudon. I think it needs speed instead of HP.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,064
    Oh, sorry, the speed was for neutral Deo-A. The extra bulk was ev'd to beat Omastar but it also applies to things like Espeed Ray. (sorta) However, if you don't think it's worth it then it can be removed. Keep in mind it was only in AC.
  8. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,820
    keep the bulky set and stay at 204 spe imo. 12 evs isnt much of a difference in bulk, and the jump on deo-a can be helpful. omastar can be annoying and the fat spread helps check it well.
  9. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,746
    you still need to swap roar and cm on the sdef set. roar is always better, this set makes an appearance mostly on balanced teams with spikes so the shuffling is far more appreciated than the 'win condition', plus why would you want to get into a cm war with other arceus and risk several turns to get crit rather than just one and roar it out. if i hear anything about oh no i'll get last-mon cm arceus swept then fuck off.

    remove mewtwo from the pokemon that sdef resttalk kyogre checks for obvious reasons.

    slash hydro pump with surf on the scarf set and mention that it is needed to 2hko some bulkier targets and just generally really strong (do some calcs, i know it's useful more than occasionally)

    also the offensive set before resttalk? not sure about that

    de slash thunder wave on resttalk it's ass. it doesn't do anything if the target is affected by burn if you're sleeping vs groudon you only have a 1/3 chance to do anything meaningful that is fucking terrible against a pokemon you're meant to shit on. just put it in AC if you have to. mewtwo darkrai and genesect are all closed to crippled by uninvested scald anyway, not to mention that subcm variations of the former two now have an advantange against this set. ROAR IS SO GOOD ON THIS SET DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE IT.

    spikesshuffling with roar needs to be mentioned and that roar is a really good move on kyogre because it forces very obvious switches.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2013
    Donkey and trickroom like this.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,064
    Roar is already first slash poppy :p

    Also, go ahead and bump RestTalk to second set. ScarfOgre has a lot of other good scarfers to compete with (plus it's own flaws as a scarfer) and spdef ogre is one of the better checks to Cm arc like ghosty.
  11. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,746
    echoing this, resttalk would be first if specs kyogre wasn't such a defining force. offensive sets are generally underwhelming.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,064
    Icecream do you still have time for this? If it's too much for you right now we can have somebody else finish writing it up.
  13. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,044
    Yeah, this analysis is too much for one person. It would be exceedingly more obnoxious if I held on to it any longer thinking I could finish it. So yeah, reassign it to whoever has the time. I'm really sorry about all this; I did want to finish it, but too many things got in the way. =/
  14. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,064
    That's no problem, I understand how much work an analysis like Kyogre's requires and how school can stack on to it. I know shrang had mentioned wanting to take over, is that still true? (if not nbd, I know you mentioned it before picking up Tina-O)

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)