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Kyogre (Specially Defensive) GP 1/2

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by dice, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    Poppy showed me this set, and I've making several teams with it and it's impressed me a lot. I'm up for doing the whole Kyogre update if need be, although it may take a while. trickroom showed Poppy, Poppy showed Bri = trickroom is the first user, KACAW, whales suck.

    Status: Quality Control

    QC Approvals (-3/3): [Girl, furai, poppy]
    QC Rejections (3/3): [trickroom, birds, gyarados]
    GP Approvals (1/2):



    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although most sets focus on taking advantage of Kyogre's fabulous base 150 Special Attack combined with Drizzle and its famous Water Spout, its amazing base 140 Special Defense, which is higher than Blissey's, is often overlooked. While obviously having a lot less HP than Blissey, Kyogre has several advantages over her as a special wall. Kyogre brings weather support to your team and has certain resistances which are crucial to walling extremely powerful attackers, such as Choice Specs Reshiram, who can 2HKO even Blissey under the sun.</p>

    <p>With a specially defensive spread, Kyogre becomes a fabulous check to several top threats in the metagame. Kyurem-W, the hardest hitting special Dragon, might not even 2HKO Kyogre with Choice Specs Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Kyogre also becomes a great check to most Calm Mind Arceus formes bar Grass and Electric, which are both rare in the current metagame. Even Arceus-Electric will not enjoy repeated Scalds and potential burns on the switch, leaving Arceus-Grass as the only Arceus forme that can beat this Kyogre without fail, though an unboosted Judgment will not 2HKO. Kyogre can choose to either try to burn them and then Roar them out or Roar them out immediately unless sleeping.<p/>

    <p>If you're Darkrai weak, this Kyogre is the biggest check you can think of outside of Arceus-Fighting. Not only can it absorb sleep for your team, but it also doesn't take much damage from Darkrai's attacks, can Roar it out or 2HKO it in its sleep with Scald, and if Scald burns, KO it in two turns with burn damage. However, keep in mind that, if you get really unlucky with Sleep Talk, Darkrai might 3HKO Kyogre with +2 Dark Pulse combined with Bad Dreams.</p>

    <p>Rest gives Kyogre a way to repeatedly switch in and check the threats it needs to deal with. Kyogre can heal up after tanking a Draco Meteor from Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Latias, Latios, or Dialga. This is especially useful when they try to KO with two consecutive Draco Meteors, and if it Rests as they attack, it will wall them easily, because it is generally slower than them with this set. Sleep Talk is Kyogre's only chance to do something while sleeping. Surprisingly, this Kyogre is actually great at checking Palkia, a common check to most Kyogre sets, as Thunder doesn't even 2HKO from full health. Keep in mind, Kyogre will still lose to Palkia one-on-one and Choice Specs versions will still 2HKO you with Thunder. Pairing this set up with Ferrothorn is a good idea to completely wall Choiced Palkia, but beware of Lustrous Orb or mixed variants.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are quite simple: 248 HP EVs instead of 252 HP so you have an odd HP number which is helpful versus Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Spikes at times, max Special Defense EVs because special walling is the purpose of the set, and the rest thrown in Defense. Running a Sassy Nature coupled with 0 Speed IVs is an option to almost always ensure rain on Turn one versus an opposing Groudon lead if you want momentum from the start. Thunder Wave is an option over Roar that you can be used to paralyze Calm Mind Arceus and switch to a Pokemon like Zekrom to beat it, but Roar is almost always the best choice to phaze and prevent setup from dangerous sweepers such as Rayquaza, which resists Scald and negates rain with Air Lock. Because this Kyogre works well with entry hazards, Roar is the best choice to take advantage of them.</p>

    <p>Surf is an option over Scald if your team is reliant on poison or paralysis support or if you want some additional power from your Kyogre. However, keep in mind that the power increase is hardly noticeable on this Kyogre as it is very weak compared to other Kyogre sets. Burning potential checks such as Palkia and Ferrothorn can also go a long way in wearing them down.</p>

    <p>The usual Kyogre counters still beat this set. Ferrothorn is more annoying than ever as it can pound Kyogre hard with Power Whip and will win unless it is burned by Scald. Kyogre also barely scratches Latias with Scald, but she barely even has a chance to 2HKO it with Grass Knot or Thunder even while running an offensive spread, meaning yit can go for a phaze or a burn. It is advisable to pack a Latias check such as Tyranitar when using this Kyogre set, because Calm Mind Latias can still easily beat Kyogre once she can no longer be Roared out.</p>

    <p>Zekrom still murders this Kyogre with its STAB Bolt Strike but must watch out for a burn on the switch in. Mewtwo bypasses the specially defensive EV spread with Psystrike and can OHKO at +1 with a Life Orb. Offensive Groudon's boosted Earthquake will easily OHKO this Kyogre set, as Kyogre's Defense is rather bad by Ubers standards. Ho-Oh can 2HKO this set easily with Brave Bird and is capable of tanking a Scald due to its huge Special Defense and this Kyogre's lack of Special Attack investment. Shaymin-S can easily switch in on this set, due to its relatively weak Scald, and Seed Flare will 2HKO. The Choice Specs set will also OHKO Kyogre with Leaf Storm.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, Giratina-O, and Tyranitar all make good partners for this set, and all of them besides Giratina-O can check Latias. Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Giratina-O resist both Electric- and Grass-type attacks, while Kyogre can easily tank Fire- and Ice-type attacks in return. Tyranitar easily traps Choice attackers, such as Palkia locked into Thunder trying to kill Kyogre. Genesect can switch in on Latias and beat it with U-turn and is capable of beating Shaymin-S as well.</p>


    252SpAtk Choice Specs Latias (Neutral) Grass Knot vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 49% - 58% (198 - 234 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 16% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem White (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 65% - 76% (262 - 309 HP).
  2. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I'm actually surprised there's no defensive set for Kyogre at all. I'm more interested that this should probably be more of a general defensive set instead of just purely specially defensive. Physically defensive Kyogre is also extremely good, especially for checking stuff like Rock Polish Groudon.
  3. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    There isn't a PhyDef Ogre? O.o

    I just ctrl+f'd special defense, lol. Both are extremely viable. How should we approach this?
  4. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    on the current kyogre analysis mono-attacker is basically phys.def, and as most people know is pretty much unviable since latias with soul dew came out.

    at any rate this is a good set and plays very differently from phys.def, and probably warrants a separate set due to the things it checks despite having the exact same moves.

    i'm going to hold off on my approval until other qc members weigh in (not sure if a full revamp is necessary)
  5. Bossness

    Bossness

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    252SpAtk Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem White (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 65% - 76% (262 - 309 HP).

    Just note that after SR, Kyogre will always be 2hkoed since two consecutive Draco Meteors will deal a minimum of >91% after leftovers.
    Ho-Oh is actually better at taking on Kyurem-W since Sacred Fire does alot of damage even when uninvested.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem White (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ho-Oh (+SpDef): 58% - 69% (244 - 288 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs -2 Turboblaze Kyurem White (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ho-Oh (+SpDef): 29% - 34% (121 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    This will never 2hko Ho-Oh.(unless SR)
    Maybe it would be better to mention that 150 base Spatk Draco Meteors do not KO on average?
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 58% - 69% (237 - 280 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs -2 Turboblaze Reshiram (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 29% - 34% (118 - 141 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    Another thing, the calculator you are using isnt really accurate. It usually messes up the % to 2HKO when an attack does arond 50%. For example when an attack does a minimum of 50%, it will tell you that its a guaranteed 2HKO<----its not. When an attack does just below 50%,(49%) it will tell you that you have a low chance to 2hko.
    Which means this calculation is wrong:
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Latias (Neutral) Grass Knot vs 248HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (+SpDef): 49% - 58% (198 - 234 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 16% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

    I will use the Cherubi Damage Calculator since its more accurate. BTW Latias never uses 252 Spatk evs.
    478 Atk vs 416 Def & 403 HP (120 Base Power): 198 - 234 (49.13% - 58.06%)
    After Leftovers the chance to 2hko is 53.98%.
    Here is the Psyshock calculation from Offensive Calm Mind Latias:
    460 Atk vs 216 Def & 403 HP (80 Base Power): 184 - 217 (45.66% - 53.85%)
    After Leftovers the chance to 2hko is 0.99%. Its better to mention this instead.
  6. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    I suck at calc'ing. :[

    Thankss.
  7. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    Obviously you meant darkrai here.

    But about the set, it's an incredibly viable one, and provides a niche benefit to many teams. It can avoid big damage from threatening pokemon like Dialga without thunder, opposing kyogre, as it can live pretty much anything at least once, darkrai as you mentioned, and it makes a much better switch in to resh and kyu-w. It also lets you phaze some of your checks easily, like lati@s and arceus forms with a good attacking type against you, which can be crucial in some situations.


    Really, you check many more threatening things than the phys def variant bar Ho-oh and offensive groudon. The ability to absorb more attacks and spread more scald burns against more common threats generally outweights this, but it should be noted that the investment is completely based on your team make up. Some rain teams desperately need a ho-oh check, while others are weak to strong dragons or darkrai.

    I'm not sure if a separate section is neccesary, since though you check a completely different set of pokemon you play in a similar way. One could certainly fit though, since they cover the opposite sides of the spectrum
  8. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    thanks for that catch 9__9
  9. polop

    polop
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    Syrim has annoyed me with this set a time too many x_x, while I do fully support this sets viability there are somethings I'd like to add.

    Mention that this set enjoys hazard support a lot more then the other Kyogres. Unlike other Kyogre's this one is reliant on it for most of its damage. While Palkia can only muster a 3HKO with Thunder (I know you can switch to Electric resist but still...), you barely dent it with Scald, meaning that your relying on Roar to get that hazard damage stacked on it. Same thing applies to K-white, although to a much smaller extent seeing as how K-white will be helpless against it after it releases a Draco Meteor. Latias is also in the same boat, except its immune to Spikes but I think that just makes it a more harder counter so I don't know.

    Also something nice to mention is how cool it is for stall teams to start shuffling then the Forretress comes in from being phazed and gets OHKOed by Scald or is forced to switch out (lol). On a similar note, this set appreciates spin blocker support because no one likes relying on this thing to kill a Forry in its sleep.

    If OHKO clause is unbanned we can also shove Sheer Cold in this Kyogre? On a completely random side note this Kyogre manages to avoid getting 2HKOed by Choice Specs Water Spout 78% of the time if Stealth Rocks aren't up, it can't pp stall it out of pp like Giratina-a but I still think it should be mentioned (not completely sure about this part though).

    I don't know if we need a whole Kyogre revamp, it may need some set removal though, I mean who even uses sub cm or chestorest any more x_x.
  10. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  11. trickroom

    trickroom
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    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 2/3

    Kyurem-B wrecks this set easily with Fusion Bolt or Outrage.
  12. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    [QC]3/3[/QC]

    Set's good, bulky motherfucker. I also want to leave this here: 252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 254-300 (63.02 - 74.44%). I'd like a tiny more mention on how Dragons can actually hit this hard, especially Rayquaza (25% to OHKO with SR assuming Jolly and LO).
  13. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Bri is no longer working on this. Anyone?
  14. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Written and waiting for GP. If QC has anything else to say, please do.
  15. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although most sets focus on abusing Kyogre's fabulous 150 base Special Attack stat combined with Drizzle and its famous Water Spout, one often overlooks its amazing 140 base Special Defense, which is higher than that of Blissey's. While obviously having a lot less HP than Blissey, Kyogre has several advantages over Blissey as a special wall. First off, Kyogre brings weather support to your team, and second, it has certain resistances which are crucial to wall extremely powerful attackers such as Choice Specs Reshiram, a choice user who which can 2HKO even Blissey under the sun.</p>

    <p>With a specially defensive spread, Kyogre becomes a fabulous check to several top threats in the metagame. Kyurem-W, BW2's gift of the hardest hitting special Dragon, (AC) yet has a chance of not even 2HKOing Kyogre with Choice Specs Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Kyogre also becomes a great check to most Calm Mind Arceus formes bar Grass and Electric, which who are both rare in the current metagame. Even Arceus-Electric will not enjoy repeated Scalds and potential burns on the switch, leaving Arceus-Grass as the only Arceus forme who that can beat this Kyogre without fail, keeping in mind that an unboosted Judgment will not 2HKO. Kyogre can choose to either try and burn them and then Roar them out, or if they're too threatening it can just Roar them out immediately, unless sleeping.<p/>

    <p>If you're Darkrai weak, this Kyogre is the biggest check you can think of outside of Arceus-Fighting. Not only can it absorb the sleep for your team, but Darkrai isn't doing much damage to you and you can Roar it out in your sleep or 2HKO it with Scald, or maybe burn it which and the Burn will KO after two turns. Keep in mind if you get really unlucky such as Sleep Talk kept picking Rest, Darkrai might 3HKO you with +2 Dark Pulse combined with Bad Dreams.<p>

    <p>
    Rest gives Kyogre a way to repeatedly switch in and check these threats. Kyogre can heal up after tanking a Draco Meteor from Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Latias, Latios, (AC) and Dialga. This is especially useful when they try to KO you with 2 consecutive Draco Meteors, and if you Rest as they attack, you will wall them easily, because Kyogre is generally slower than them with this set. Remove enter Sleep Talk is for not becoming setup bait, obviously, and it is the only chance for Kyogre to do something while sleeping. Surprisingly, this Kyogre is actually great at checking Palkia, a common check to most Kyogre sets, (AC) as Thunder doesn't even 2HKO from full health. Keep in mind, Kyogre will still lose to Palkia one-on-one and Choice Specs versions will still 2HKO you with Thunder. Pairing this set up with Ferrothorn is a good idea to completely wall choiced Palkia, but beware of Lustrous Orb or Mixed variants.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are quite simple: (colon) 248 HP EVs instead of 252 HP so you have an odd HP number which is helpful versus Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Spikes at times, max Specially Defensive EVs because that's the name of the set, and the rest are thrown in Defense. There is an option of running a Sassy Nature coupled with 0 Speed IVs to almost always ensures rain on Turn 1 versus an opposing Groudon lead if you want momentum from the start. Thunder Wave in an option over Roar since because you can paralyze Calm Mind Arceus and switch to a Pokemon like Zekrom to beat it, but Roar is almost always the best choice to phaze and prevent setup from dangerous sweepers such as Rayquaza, which who resists Scald and negates Rain with Air Lock. Since Because this Kyogre works well with entry hazards, Roar is the best choice to abuse it.<p/>

    <p>Surf is an option over Scald if your team is reliant on poison or paralysis support or if you want some additional power from your Kyogre. Keep in mind, the power increase is hardly noticeable on this Kyogre as it is very weak compared to other Kyogre sets. Burning potential checks such as Palkia and Ferrothorn can go a long way in wearing them out.</p>

    <p>The usual Kyogre counters still beat this set. Ferrothorn is more annoying than ever since as it can pound you hard with Power Whip and your only chance of winning is burning it with Scald so it can be worn down quickly, (AC) especially when paired with entry hazards. You barely scratch Latias with Scald but she barely even has a chance to 2HKO you with Grass Knot or Thunder even while running an offensive spread, meaning you can go for a phaze or a burn. It is advisable to pack a Latias check such as Tyranitar when using this Kyogre set, (AC) because Calm Mind Latias can still easily beat Kyogre except for roar?.</p>

    <p>Zekrom still murders you with its Electric-STAB Bolt Strike but then again must watch out for a burn on the switch in. Mewtwo bypasses the Specially Defensive EVs with Psystrike and can OHKO at +1 with a Life Orb. Offensive Groudon's boosted Earthquake will easily OHKO this Kyogre set, as Kyogre's Defense is rather bad by Ubers standards. Ho-Oh can 2HKO this set easily with Brave Bird and is capable of tanking a Scald due to the turkey's huge Special Defense stat and this Kyogre's lack of Special Attack investment. Shaymin-S can now easily switch in on this set, due to its the relatively weak Scald, and Seed Flare will 2HKO with Seed Flare. The Choice Specs set will also OHKO Kyogre with Leaf Storm.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, Giratina-O, (AC) and Tyranitar all make good partners for this set, and all of them besides Giratina-O can check Latias. Ferrothorn, Dialga, (AC) and Giratina-O resist both Electric- and Grass-type attacks, while Kyogre can easily tank Fire- or Ice-type attacks in return. Tyranitar easily traps Choiced attackers locked in on Thunder trying to kill Kyogre, such as Palkia. Genesect can switch in on Latias and beat it with U-turn, and is capable of beating Shaymin-S as well.<p/>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  16. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Done with GP 1/2 Thanks. Ready for the next GP check
  17. tehy

    tehy

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    Nice overall, very few mistakes ,etc.

    Add blue cut red comments below.

    Edit: Probably, but I'd just like to see more separation between "Checking CMceus" and "CMceus hate to switch in".
    Show Hide


    [SET]

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although most sets focus on abusing Kyogre's fabulous 150 base Special Attack combined with Drizzle and its famous Water Spout, one often overlooks its amazing 140 base Special Defense, which is higher than Blissey's, is often overlooked. While obviously having a lot less HP than Blissey, Kyogre has several advantages over Blissey as a special wall. First off, Kyogre brings weather support to your team, and second it has certain resistances which are crucial to wall extremely powerful attackers, such as Choice Specs Reshiram, who can 2HKO even Blissey under the sun.</p>

    <p>With a specially defensive spread, Kyogre becomes a fabulous check to several top threats in the metagame. Kyurem-W, BW2's gift of the hardest-hitting special Dragon, has a chance of not even 2HKOing Kyogre with Choice Specs Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Kyogre also becomes a great check to most Calm Mind Arceus formes bar Grass and Electric, which are both rare in the current metagame. Even Arceus-Electric will not enjoy repeated Scalds and potential burns on the switch, leaving Arceus-Grass as the only Arceus forme that can beat this Kyogre without fail, keeping in mind that an unboosted Judgment will not 2HKO. Kyogre can choose to either try and burn them and then Roar them out, or if they're too threatening it can just Roar them out immediately, unless sleeping.<p/>

    <p>If you're Darkrai weak, this Kyogre is the biggest check you can think of, outside of Arceus-Fighting. Not only can it absorb sleep for your team, but Darkrai isn't doing much damage to you and you can Roar it out or 2HKO it in your sleep or 2HKO it with Scald, or maybeand if you burn it whichthe burn damage will KO after two turns. Keep in mind that if you get really unlucky sucwith as Sleep Talk kept picking Rest, Darkrai might 3HKO you with +2 Dark Pulse combined with Bad Dreams.</p>

    <p>Rest gives Kyogre a way to repeatedly switch in and check these threats. Kyogre can heal up after tanking a Draco Meteor from Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Latias, Latios and Dialga. This is especially useful when they try to KO you with 2 consecutive Draco Meteors, ands if you Rest as they attack, you will wall them easily, because Kyogre is generally slower than them with this set. Sleep Talk is for not becoming setup bait, obviously, and is the only chance for Kyogre to do something while sleeping. Surprisingly, this Kyogre is actually great at checking Palkia, a common check to most Kyogre sets, as Thunder doesn't even 2HKO from full health. Keep in mind, that Kyogre will still lose to Palkia one-on-one and Choice Specs versions will still 2HKO you with Thunder. Pairing this set up with Ferrothorn is a good idea to completely wall choiced Palkia, but beware of Lustrous Orb or Mixed variants.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are quite simple: 248 HP EVs instead of 252 HP so you have an odd HP number which is helpful versus Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Spikes at times, max Specially Defensive EVs because that's the nampurpose of the set, and the rest are thrown in Defense. There is an option of rRunning a Sassy Nature coupled with 0 Speed IVs is an option to almost always ensures rain on Turn 1 versus an opposing Groudon lead, if you want momentum from the start. Thunder Wave in an option over Roar because you can paralyze Calm Mind Arceus and switch to a Pokemon like Zekrom to beat it, but Roar is almost always the best choice to phaze and prevent setup from dangerous sweepers, such as Rayquaza, which resists Scald and negates Rain with Air Lock. Because this Kyogre works well with entry hazards, Roar is the best choice to abuse ithem.<p/>

    <p>Surf is an option over Scald if your team is reliant on poison or
    paralysis support or if you want some additional power from your Kyogre. Keep in mind, that the power increase is hardly noticeable on this Kyogre, as it is very weak compared to other Kyogre sets. Burning potential checks such as Palkia and Ferrothorn can go a long way in wearing them outdown.</p>

    <p>The usual Kyogre counters still beat this set. Ferrothorn is more annoying than ever as it can pound you hard with Power Whip and your only chance of winning is burning it with Scald so it can be worn down quickly, especially when paired with entry hazards. You barely scratch Latias with Scald, but she barely even has a chance to 2HKO you with Grass Knot or Thunder even while running an offensive spread, meaning you can go for a phaze or a burn. It is advisable to pack a Latias check such as Tyranitar when using this Kyogre set, because Calm Mind Latias can still easily beat Kyogre once she can no longer be Roared out.</p>

    <p>Zekrom still murders you with its STAB Bolt Strike but then again must watch out for a burn on the switch in. Mewtwo bypasses the Specially Defensive EVs with Psystrike and can OHKO at +1 with a Life Orb. Offensive Groudon's boosted Earthquake will easily OHKO this Kyogre set, as Kyogre's Defense is rather bad by Ubers standards. Ho-Oh can 2HKO this set easily with Brave Bird and is capable of tanking a Scald due to the turkey's huge Special Defense and this Kyogre's lack of Special Attack investment. Shaymin-S can now easily switch in on this set, due to the relatively weak Scald, and Seed Flare will 2HKO. The Choice Specs set will also OHKO Kyogre with Leaf Storm.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, Giratina-O, and Tyranitar all make good partners for this set, and all of them besides Giratina-O can check Latias. Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Giratina-O resist both Electric- and Grass-type attacks, while Kyogre can easily tank Fire- or Ice-type attacks in return. Tyranitar easily traps Choice attackers, such as Palkia, locked in on Thunder trying to kill Kyogre, such as Palkia. Genesect can switch in on Latias and beat it with U-turn, and is capable of beating Shaymin-S as well.<p/>

    Comments:
    You say "oh it checks all CM arc except Elec and Grass", then you say that Elec hates switching into it so only Grass can handle it. Are you talking about Kyogre switching into Arc or Arc switching into Kyogre?
    "The biggest check you can think of" maybe different wording?
    Maybe say that non-specs thunder doesn't 2HKO Kyogre? Because you do say Specs Thunder does so...
    You say "Because this Ogre works well with hazards Roar is the best choice to abuse it". But isn't it only good BECAUSE of roar? I mean, that whole thing needs touching up a little.
    Your only chance of beating ferro is burning it with Scald (The rest of that sentence). The rest of that sentence really has no reason to be there and I'm bolding it. Keep it if you must.
  18. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Fixed everything, removed the ferro sentence.

    It checks all CM arceus but Elec can't switch in to threaten Kyogre directly because it hates taking Scalds. Kyogre attracts those 2 kinds of Arceus so they love to switch in. I am trying to say Electric Arceus can't switch in as freely.

    Thanks, are there any more changes?
  19. lousy918

    lousy918

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    sry this is prolly rly late but I don't really see the point of 248 HP. I mean u say it helps against leech seed, sr, spikes, but leech seed, sr, and 1 or 3 layers of spikes is divisible by 8, 2 layers is divisible by 16, and 404 isn't divisible by 8, so it doesn't help. although this is a really minor change but js.

    Edit: since 252 HP MAY matter when tanking D-meteors granted its rare but hey the defense doesn't help much u shouldnt be taking physical hits bar resisted and the resisted is only like Gyro ball, others have a coverage moves
  20. trickroom

    trickroom
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    248 was written by the original user, but I can change to 252 if everyone wants it.
  21. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

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    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although most sets focus on abusing taking advantage of Kyogre's fabulous 150 base 150 Special Attack combined with Drizzle and its famous Water Spout, its amazing 140 base 140 Special Defense, which is higher than Blissey's, is often overlooked. While obviously having a lot less HP than Blissey, Kyogre has several advantages over Blissey her as a special wall. Kyogre brings weather support to your team and has certain resistances which are crucial to wall walling extremely powerful attackers, such as Choice Specs Reshiram, who can 2HKO even Blissey under the sun.</p>

    <p>With a specially defensive spread, Kyogre becomes a fabulous check to several top threats in the metagame. Kyurem-W, BW2's gift of the hardest hitting special Dragon, has a chance of might not even 2HKOing 2HKO Kyogre with Choice Specs Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Kyogre also becomes a great check to most Calm Mind Arceus formes bar Grass and Electric (add comma) which are both rare in the current metagame. Even Arceus-Electric will not enjoy repeated Scalds and potential burns on the switch, leaving Arceus-Grass as the only Arceus forme that can beat this Kyogre without fail, keeping in mind that though an unboosted Judgment will not 2HKO. Kyogre can choose to either try and to burn them (it might just be me, but I'm a little unsure what them refers to here; like I said this could just be me though) and then Roar them out, (remove comma) or Roar them out immediately, (remove comma) unless sleeping.<p/></p>

    <p>If you're Darkrai weak, this Kyogre is the biggest check you can think of outside of Arceus-Fighting. Not only can it absorb sleep for your team, but Darkrai isn't doing much damage to you and you can Roar it out or 2HKO it in your Sleep with Scald, and if you burn it the burn damage will KO after two turns. Not only can it absorb sleep for your team, but it also doesn't take much damage from Darkrai's attacks, can Roar it out or 2HKO it in its sleep with Scald, and if Scald burns, KO it in two turns with burn damage. Keep However, keep in mind that (add comma) if you get really unlucky with Sleep Talk, Darkrai might 3HKO you Kyogre with +2 Dark Pulse combined with Bad Dreams.</p>

    <p>Rest gives Kyogre a way to repeatedly switch in and check these the threats it needs to deal with. Kyogre can heal up after tanking a Draco Meteor from Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Latias, Latios (add comma) and or Dialga. This is especially useful when they try to KO you with 2 two consecutive Draco Meteors, and if you Rest it Rests as they attack, you it will wall them easily, (remove comma) because Kyogre it is generally slower than them with this set. Sleep Talk is the Kyogre's only chance for Kyogre to do something while sleeping. Surprisingly, this Kyogre is actually great at checking Palkia, a common check to most Kyogre sets, as Thunder doesn't even 2HKO from full health. Keep in mind, Kyogre will still lose to Palkia one-on-one and Choice Specs versions will still 2HKO you it with Thunder. Pairing this set up with Ferrothorn is a good idea to completely wall choiced Choiced Palkia, but beware of Lustrous Orb or Mixed mixed variants.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are quite simple: 248 HP EVs instead of 252 HP so you have an odd HP number which is helpful versus Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Spikes at times, max Special Defense EVs because that's special walling is the purpose of the set, and the rest are thrown in Defense. Running a Sassy Nature nature coupled with 0 Speed IVs is an option to almost always ensures ensure rain on Turn 1 one versus an opposing Groudon lead if you want momentum from the start. Thunder Wave in is an option over Roar because you that can be used to paralyze Calm Mind Arceus and switch to a Pokemon like Zekrom to beat it, but Roar is almost always the best choice to phaze and prevent setup from dangerous sweepers such as Rayquaza (add comma) which resists Scald and negates Rain rain with Air Lock. Because this Kyogre works well with entry hazards, Roar is the best choice to abuse take advantage of them.<p/></p>

    <p>Surf is an option over Scald if your team is reliant on poison or paralysis support or if you want some additional power from your Kyogre. Keep However, keep in mind that the power increase is hardly noticeable on this Kyogre as it is very weak compared to other Kyogre sets. Burning potential checks such as Palkia and Ferrothorn can also go a long way in wearing them down.</p>

    <p>The usual Kyogre counters still beat this set. Ferrothorn is more annoying than ever as it can pound you Kyogre hard with Power Whip and your only chance of winning is burning it with will win unless it is burned by Scald. You Kyogre also barely scratch scratches Latias with Scald (add comma) but she barely even has a chance to 2HKO you it with Grass Knot or Thunder even while running an offensive spread, meaning you it can go for a phaze or a burn. It Even still, it is advisable to pack a Latias check such as Tyranitar when using this Kyogre set, because Calm Mind Latias can still easily beat Kyogre once she can no longer be Roared out.</p>

    <p>Zekrom still murders you this Kyogre with its STAB Bolt Strike but then again must watch out for a burn on the switch in. Mewtwo bypasses the Specially Defensive EVs specially defensive EV spread with Psystrike and can OHKO at +1 with a Life Orb. Offensive Groudon's boosted Earthquake will easily OHKO this Kyogre set, as Kyogre's Defense is rather bad by Ubers standards. Ho-Oh can 2HKO this set easily with Brave Bird and is capable of tanking a Scald due to the turkey's its huge Special Defense and this Kyogre's lack of Special Attack investment. Shaymin-S can now easily switch in on this set, due to the its relatively weak Scald, and Seed Flare will 2HKO. The Choice Specs set will also OHKO Kyogre with Leaf Storm.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn, Dialga, Giratina-O, and Tyranitar all make good partners for this set, and all of them besides Giratina-O can check Latias. Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Giratina-O resist both Electric- and Grass-type attacks, while Kyogre can easily tank Fire- or and Ice-type attacks in return. Tyranitar easily traps Choice attackers, such as Palkia locked in on into Thunder trying to kill Kyogre. Genesect can switch in on Latias and beat it with U-turn, (remove comma) and is capable of beating Shaymin-S as well.<p/></p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  22. lousy918

    lousy918

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    'them' refers to CM arceus formes in general
  23. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Thanks. This is done, uploaded.

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