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Kyurem (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by religiousjedi, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    [​IMG]
    Kyurem

    Status: Done!
    QC Approval: Bloo, Setsusana
    GP Checks: Zystral, jc104


    Aerrow's Analysis

    [Overview]

    <p>With offensive stats almost rivaling those of Rayquaza, Kyurem completes the Tao Trio of Generation V. A unique Dragon / Ice typing differentiates Kyurem from other Dragon-types, and with Base 130 Attack and Special Attack, Dragon / Ice typing makes a great offensive threat. Base 95 Speed is a bit underwhelming in today's metagame, but is still enough for Kyurem to outspeed certain threats. As an added bonus, Kyurem boasts excellent bulk, with 125/90/90 base defenses.</p>

    <p>However, there are reasons Kyurem failed to achieve Uber status, in spite of brilliant offenses and typing. To start, while Dragon / Ice is great offensively, it is a terrible defensive typing, offsetting Kyurem's decent bulk. Dragon-, Fighting-, Steel-, and Rock-type weaknesses make life horrible for Kyurem, in addition to Stealth Rock robbing 25% of its HP every time it switches in. It is very susceptible to common priority moves such as Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Vacuum Wave, making it easy prey for revenge killing. Finally, bar Hone Claws, Kyurem has no way to boost its offensive stats and is unable to boost its Speed. In spite of these shortcomings, Kyurem can still serve as an effective attacker with the proper support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Pulse
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Special Attack equaling those of Gengar, Espeon, Latios, Magnezone, Glaceon, and Heatran, Kyurem makes a great user of either Choice Scarf or Choice Specs. With Choice Scarf, Kyurem serves as a great revenge killer, sitting at 475 Speed with STAB Dragon- and Ice-type attacks at its disposal; meanwhile, Choice Specs powers up that great Special Attack to an impressive 538, ensuring very few will survive. The choice between a revenge killer and a powerful Special Attacker is up to the trainer, but the moveset for both remains the same. Draco Meteor tears through anything that isn't resistant or named Chansey or Blissey. Ice Beam is secondary STAB, providing an alternative to Draco Meteor to combat fellow Dragon-types, many of whom are 4x weak against Ice, without resorting to the Special Attack-decreasing Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Focus Blast takes precedence in the third slot. As it stands, Heatran resists both Draco Meteor and Ice Beam and can wear down Kyurem with STAB Fire Blast. Focus Blast takes care of that problem, securing an OHKO with entry hazards on most versions of Heatran; if using Choice Specs, Heatran will always fall. The final slot is reserved for Hidden Power Fire or Dragon Pulse. Though Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn for super effective damage, a 4x super effective Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Forretress harder. Kyurem has much to fear from those three if it doesn't KO them in time, especially Scizor, as it can usually survive a Focus Blast and proceed to KO Kyurem with Bullet Punch.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Using Hidden Power Fire means lowering Kyurem's max Speed to 316, meaning other Base 95 Speed Pokemon such as Electivire and Darmanitan can get the jump on Choice Specs Kyurem and if Darmanitan wears a Choice Scarf of its own, Choice Scarf Kyurem. For that reason, you can forgo Hidden Power Fire and instead use Dragon Pulse. This way, you don't sacrifice Kyurem's Speed and you have the ability to hit with a more consistent Dragon-type attack than Draco Meteor. This route is recommended only if you have of other ways to deal with Scizor and Bronzong though, since Focus Blast's shaky accuracy could mean the end of Kyurem.</p>

    <p>Since Kyurem will be switching in and out through the match, Rapid Spin support is a must to keep Stealth Rock off the field. Starmie works as an excellent partner, taking Fighting- and Steel-type attacks decently, Recovering the damage, and battering the physically inclined with Surf. Wish support is greatly appreciated, and Jirachi makes a good partner in this case, taking Rock- and Steel-type moves while healing Kyurem in the process. Though sharing a Fighting-type weakness with Kyurem, Magnezone can trap and KO Steel-types, and Heatran can scare off Fire-and Steel-type foes. Fighting-type partners will be greatly appreciated to take care of this set's bane, Eviolite Chansey and Blissey.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Pulse
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the previous set had the choice of hitting hard or striking fast, this one has the freedom to do both. Life Orb makes Kyurem a fantastic offensive threat, sporting 466 SpA to batter opponents with. This comes at the cost of Kyurem's health, but the freedom to choose another attack should your opponent switch to a potential check or counter. Draco Meteor does not much suit switching attacks, but its power makes it too hard to pass up. Ice Beam beats the the majority of Dragon-types easily, namely Salamence, without resorting to Draco Meteor. Focus Blast makes a return to hit Steel-types, plus the possibility of a Special Defense drop helps against certain foes who switch in, such as Scizor. In the last slot, the option of hitting Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor in the form of Hidden Power Fire takes precedence while Dragon Pulse is the more consistent option over Draco Meteor should you wish to retain that great Special Attack without switching out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With Draco Meteor cutting Kyurem's Special Attack in half, it will be hard-pressed to stay in after using it. At the cost of some power, Dragon Pulse can be used over Draco Meteor, freeing up the last slot for Hidden Power Fire. However, as mentioned earlier, with such a sky-high Special Attack, it may be inadvisable to give up something as powerful as Draco Meteor. Though this set is harder to wall because of the great coverage and the freedom to attack, Blissey and Eviolite Chansey still serve as effective counters. Specially Defensive Forretress can shrug off Focus Blast too and can KO a weakened Kyurem with Gyro Ball.</p>

    <p>In addition to the problem regarding the last moveslot, the vulnerability to all forms of entry hazards, especially Stealth Rock, and the lack of recovery means this Kyurem is easily worn down, especially with Life Orb recoil. For that reason, Starmie makes a great partner, using Rapid Spin to blow away entry hazards and effectively checking most Fighting-types. Wish support is also greatly appreciated, and Jirachi makes a good partner again, since it can carry moves such as Fire Punch and Psychic to take care of Scizor and Conkledurr, respectively. Finally, Magnezone can trap bulky Steel types and KO them with Hidden Power Fire should Kyurem forgo Hidden Power Fire itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Glaciate
    move 1: Glaciate
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Haban Berry / Lum Berry
    nature: Modest
    evs: 56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kyurem's signature move, Glaciate, is essentially a slightly more powerful Icy Wind. This set has a bit of a surprise factor, as Glaciate rarely makes it on any of Kyurem's sets due to its low base power. This set is effective both as a lead and as an attacker later on in the game. The idea is to come in on something that doesn't threaten Kyurem and fire off Glaciate on the switch-in. From there, depending on what comes in Kyurem can either beat it with STAB Draco Meteor, STAB Ice Beam, or Focus Blast, or switch to an appropriate teammate. The EVs are tailored to beat Pokemon with 140 base Speed that lack Choice Scarf after Glaciate takes effect. This also allows Kyurem to outrun the likes of Lucario naturally. The 56 HP EVs help Kyurem with its natural bulk, also allowing it to switch in on Stealth Rock four times before fainting.</p>

    <p>The rest of the moveset is dedicated to beating what Glaciate has slowed down. Draco Meteor hitting off of 390 SpA is no laughing matter, easily KOing most Pokemon after the Glaciate. Ice Beam is the safer option on most Dragon-types, especially those with a 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks. Focus Blast once again deals with the Steel-types bound to come in on Kyurem, namely Ferrothorn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Fire can go over Focus Blast to hit Bronzong, Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress harder. However, this leaves you at the mercy of Heatran, who will force you out after you use Glaciate. Then again, Kyurem has fulfilled its job of slowing down Choice Scarf Heatran, so any faster partner, such as Starmie, can come in and win outright. Do note to transfer 4 EVs from Special Attack to accommodate the 30 Speed IV required for Hidden Power Fire. Again, Eviolite Chansey and Blissey take little damage from even Kyurem's massive Special Attack, so partners such as Conkledurr are greatly appreciated. Magnezone once again traps Steel-types such as Scizor and Ferrothorn, especially useful if you forego Hidden Power Fire (though Focus Blast almost assuredly KOs Ferrothorn after the Glaciate.)</p>

    <p>With regard to the item choice, there are various options: Leftovers helps recover HP while Life Orb powers up Kyurem's massive Special Attack. When it comes to surviving, a type-resist berry is an excellent choice. In most situations, right after Kyurem knocks out a Pokemon, a revenge killer comes in, in the form of a Dragon-, Steel-, or Fighting-type. By using a Haban, Babiri, or Chople Berry, Kyurem can take the hit and destroy another Pokemon in the process. Lum Berry is a decent choice if you decide to use Kyurem as a lead.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Blizzard should only go over Ice Beam if you have Hail support. Hone Claws is the only way to boost Kyurem's attack power. However, there are very few physical moves which Kyurem can take advantage of, notably Outrage, Dragon Claw, Dragon Tail, and Stone Edge. It can help in a mixed set, making Blizzard a viable choice and ensuring Draco Meteor hits 100% of the time. Dragon Tail and Toxic can combine for some annoyance, but such a combo is better pulled off by more defensively oriented Pokemon. Endeavor can be used in tandem with Hail support to nab a KO. Kyurem would make a good Dual Screener if it were not for its terrible defensive typing. Substitute is an option, as it is possible for them to have greater than 101 HP, but Kyurem would prefer to attack outright. The only other Special Attack viable for Kyurem is Psychic, which batters incoming Fighting-types such as Conkledurr without having to resort to Draco Meteor. However, its usage is very limited when Draco Meteor can hit pretty much everything that Psychic would.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With Kyurem's sky-high offenses, almost nothing is a safe switch in. However, Eviolite Chansey and Blissey are possibly the best counters to Kyurem, since most sets are specially-oriented. Even mixed sets with Outrage can be outstalled, with Chansey marginally better at doing so. A 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Eviolite Chansey takes 40.9% - 48.3% from a neutral-natured, 40 Atk LO Outrage. From there, bulky Steel-types, such as Jirachi, Bronzong, Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Specially Defensive Scizor can come in on Ice Beam or Draco Meteor. Most cannot take repeated hits from Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire, however.</p>

    <p>Kyurem, as mentioned earlier, is rather slow for a Dragon-type and carries no form of priority, so revenge killing is the best way to go. Do note however, that with its natural bulk, Kyurem can survive certain priority moves if at full health. For example, a Choice Banded Scizor using Bullet Punch deals 90.5% - 106.4% to a Timid 0 HP Kyurem; if it deals minimum damage, Scizor will lose. For this reason, and to limit the number of times Kyurem can switch in, Stealth Rock is highly recommended.</p>
  2. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Make sure to read through the last few pages of the previous Kyurem thread. There were several changes proposed by me and quite a few other users that don't seem to be included here. The main thing you'll be noticing while reading through the previous thread is the addition of a Choice Specs / Choice Scarf set, the removal of the Frozen World Lead, some move changes, and a few other things. After looking through the previous Kyurem thread, be sure to update your OP accordingly before writing this analysis up!
  3. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Ah, perfect, you're working on this!

    I would recommend removing the Frozen World Lead and putting it in the Other Options, as dedicated leads are rarely existant (with the exceptions of, um, the occational Swampert, Aerodactyl, and Azelf noob) and Frozen World is, er, a situational move to use in general.

    In the last thread, Bloo mentioned a Choice set with Choice Scarf and Choice Specs. Add this because it's officially a staple on hail teams and, courtesy of Latios, everybody knows Specs Dragon-type attacks sting. If you discount the other legendary Dragon-types (a reason Kyurem's options were limited in the early stages if Aerrow's analysis), Kyurem's Speed isn't half bad at all, so a Choice set is pretty obligatory.
  4. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    No worries Bloo and Greed. I've been reading through the thread and I just decided to put the sets that were originally there for the sake of starting this up. Choice set is definitely being added while I'm exploring myself if that Wallbreaker set is viable with a bit of tweaking.

    But yeah, Glaciate (Frozen World) most likely will be going bye bye.
  5. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Just my 2 cents, but Kyurem has very nice HP and passable defensive stats, and it can utilize a pretty effective Toxic phazing set. I've been running:

    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Dragon Tail
    ~ Ice Beam / Rest
    52 HP / 204 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm / Careful

    The evs given allow him to make 101 HP Subs, and the SpD evs give him the ability to take a Draco Meteor from a scarfed Latios relatively well. Ice Beam gives him another move than Dragon Tail, but Rest gives him the ability to recover Sub damage. It has a fair number of problems as well, but te conecpt of a Sub phazer could be mentioned in the OO.
  6. RotatingAtom

    RotatingAtom

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    name: Glaciate (Frozen World)
    move 1: Glaciate
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb / Haban Berry / Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 98 HP / 252 SpAtk / 160 Speed


    Okay, this is the set I've been using lately, and it works pretty well.

    Kyuremu scares a lot of Pokémon out, and the first move you usually want
    to do is use Glaciate on the switch. Eventhough the base power of the
    move is not that high, STAB and 130 Base SpAtk will boost it to quite
    useable levels; however, the beautiful thing about the move is its
    secondary effect, which I'm sure you're all aware off.

    With the given EV's, Kyurem reaches 266 Speed, which means that it will
    outspeed every non-Scarfed Pokémon except for Ninjask, Electrode,
    Accelgor and Deoxys-S after they've been hit by Glaciate. Afterwards,
    you can proceed to wreck your now slower opponent with the appropriate
    move in your arsenal; Draco Meteor, Ice Beam and Focus Blast or Hidden
    Power Fire offer phenomenal neutral coverage. If you're not sure
    what move to use, just spam Draco Meteor and when you've equipped
    a Life Orb, even Steel-Type Pokémon will lose around 50% of their health.

    Speaking of Life orb: The Item choice on this one is really tough.
    While Life Orb makes even Glaciate hit like a truck and lets Draco Meteor do
    some amazing damage-shinanigans as well, you'll find Kyurem going down
    relatively quickly with Stealth Rock on the field and Life Orb recoil.
    Therefore, when using Life Orb, having Wish support is beneficial.
    If your team doesn't provide Wish support, you can use Leftovers for
    a longer-lasting frozen Dragon.

    The last item, Haban Berry, is listed because Kyurem is by no means the
    fastest Dragon out there; after it demolished something, you'll often find
    yourself in a situation where your opponent sends out a faster Dragon
    Pokémon to revenge kill you. However, every single Dragon has no choice
    but to use a Dragon move itself against the mighty Kyurem if they want to
    make sure they'll get rid of it; this is where that little red Berry comes in. It
    enables Kyurem to take the oncoming Dragon Type Move and answer with a
    super-powerful Ice Beam or Draco Meteor. This way, you've just taken out
    2 Pokémon on your opponents team, one of them being a powerful Dragon
    that you don't have to worry about anymore.

    The HP EV's give Kyurem 415 HP, which enables it so switch into Stealth
    Rock 4 times and still have a whopping 3 HP left afterwards; On top of that,
    it can survive a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch at full health just barely
    and knock it back to it's Pokéball with Hidden Power Fire.

    ------------


    I'd really appreciate if someone could run offensive and defensive calcs for
    this set... Of course, I've done if before, but I didn't save a single one of
    them because I never thought about posting this set here. :(
    If you take the time to do this, please remember to do every calc with
    and without the Life Orb to outline the difference in damage.
  7. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Please properly use prefixes when creating threads.
  8. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    After running some tests...RotatingAtom's set is decent. It does survive LO Scizor's Bullet Punch with HP to spare, it does good against non-scarfed foes with Base 130 Speed, and since it is Modest, it absolutely rips to shreds whatever it slows down...if it survives Glaciate. It makes good use of its bulk, and doesn't necessarily need Life Orb (I've found Haban Berry to be more useful against opponent Dragon-types).

    Essentially...yeah, it most likely will be going up again.
  9. RotatingAtom

    RotatingAtom

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    The bolded part made my morning.

    Thanks for putting my set in! Wow, my first set that made it to the analysis
    page, awesome. More to come guys! I'm working on some other stuff!
  10. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    What happened to the Mixed set?? You know, Outrage/DM/HP Fire/Focus Blast?
  11. IronGross

    IronGross

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    Without an Ice move? No thanks...
  12. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Oh, replace HP Fire or Focus Blast with Ice Beam. My bad.
  13. IronGross

    IronGross

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    I tested Kyurem on Hail offense a few times, and spaming Blzzr and Draco Meteor took down many opponents; definatly worth a mention.
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Is there anything 160 Speed EVs outspeed despite Glaciate? Kyurem really shouldn't be using Glaciate all the time, and, well, you know. It can invest in more EV's if there is a specific speed tier he has to beat. Otherwise, I would probably mention Max/Max offensive investment in Glaciate in Additional options.

    Glaciate...what a cool name.
  15. guddagudda

    guddagudda

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    i've run a mixed kyurem as a wallbreaker on a double dragon team somewhat recently, but don't know if it's worth mentioning in the analysis or not. it worked well for my team.

    the set i came up with went something like:
    Kyurem @ Life Orb
    EVs: 98 Atk / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
    Nature: Mild (+ SpA, - Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast / HP Fighting / HP Electric

    could probably use a bit of work if it were to be implemented, in any case.
  16. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Greed: I've been debating that myself, because if it can get the jump on Heatran, scarfed, or not, that would be good. It might have to get a slight tweak... 56 HP / 240 SpA / 212 Spe. That lets Modest Kyurem outspeed non-scarfed Heatran and win with Focus Blast. Also, it can still switch in to Stealth Rocks 4 times. I'll have to test to see if it still works though.

    Oh, 279 Speed ties neutral natured Base 90 Speed Pokemon (i.e. Lucario). It might be better to go 216 Spe to beat that too...

    gud: that suffers from the same Speed problem the Glaciate set has right now. And why Mild? You know that it's more susceptible to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, right?
  17. guddagudda

    guddagudda

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    its purpose is to wallbreak, so it would not stay in on Mach Punch/Bullet Punch users, obv
  18. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Still bad. Focus Blast misses or fails to KO Ferrothorn, Kyurem's screwed. Also, the ability to survive priority physical moves is a better option. After all, a good portion of Steel- and Fighting-type moves are physical.

    Also, what walls can it break through? I'd like to see some damage calculations before trying to test it. The old thread had a mixed set that was shot down...
  19. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Finished writeup and will submit for GP checks. However, if QC needs to recheck again, I'll convert it back to original Quality Control tag.
  20. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    The overview makes it sound as if not being Uber is a bad thing.

    And there's also its Wish, considering that earlier you said that it is easily worn down.
  21. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    I thought it was implied regarding Wish, but I'll fix. And I wanted the overview to make Kyurem seem an awesome choice in OU by comparing it to Rayquaza. Maybe the wrong words...
  22. Lupo Aro

    Lupo Aro

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    You might want to take another look at the EVs on the Glaciate set.
  23. The Fall of Eden

    The Fall of Eden

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    While the Glaciate set is effective in it's execution, another option that could be used is a Ninjask Baton Passer in tandem with a Choice Set, or another attacking set. This way, relying on the fear factor is not the only way to guarantee a kill. Another option is to run a mixed set, see if Ninjask can get a swords dance in, then Kyurem has a great options after a Draco Meteor. One thing Ninjask has to look out for is passing to Kyurem on a Rock typed attack, which our ice dragon can't take very well. Other than that, I believe that it is a possible idea to use.
  24. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Lupo: d'oh...fixed.

    Eden: you just said it yourself: Ninjask is in a tricky position to pass, especially with Rock-type attacks (and Stealth Rock!!!!) around. Two Pokemon sharing the same weakness just to achieve Baton Pass is not good. Passing Speed Boost to either Choice set is meaningless because you lock yourself into one move, and will most assuridly be pushed out by the next Pokemon.

    And once again, the Mixed set was shot down previously, so it won't be coming back unless someone can find a viable one to test. As it stands, it stays in the Other Options section.
  25. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Make sure to remove statements that praise Kyurem's Attack stat, considering that it is irrelevant from any of the sets.

    And I, personally, would appreciate more specifics listed in the Other Options section regarding the mixed set. This includes mentions of moveset, EVs, its uses, and its threats. It's hard for a lot of people to ignore that awesome 130 Attack stat, completely. I, personally, would like to give it a try with a Shell Break pass. After all, if Conkeldurr and Scizor are removed from battle, and a pass is made, it's probably game over for the opponent. The whole Baton Pass thing would obviously not be mentioned in Other Options, considering it is gimicky and risky. But I would still like to see the old set that was rejected in there, including emphasis as to why it is inferior.

    -Zane

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