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Kyurem-B

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ginganinja, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    The OP of the previous thread was lacking, so I created this thread myself

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Kyurem-B
    Stats: HP: 125 / Atk: 170 / Def: 100 / SpA: 120 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 95 | BST: 710

    Ability: Terravolt - Bypasses targets' abilities if they could hinder or prevent moves.

    Typing: Dragon / Ice
    Weaknesses: Dragon (x2), Fighting (x2), Rock (x2), Steel (x2)
    Resistances: Electric (0.5), Grass (0.5), Water (0.5)

    Much has been said about Kyurem-B, the mighty new forme of Kyurem. The most talked about aspect, its the massive 170 base Attack stat, which lets Kyurem-B dish out tremendous damage, while also making it exceptionally difficult to switch into. If this wasn't enough, Kyurem-B also has an excellent 120 Special Attack stat, which allows it to pull off mixed sets very well.

    With access to such high attacking stats, you would think Kyurem-B would be an instant Uber, however, Kyurem-B suffers from a few obvious flaws. For starters, it keeps its base forms typing, Dragon and Ice, which unfortunately grants it weaknesses to several common attacking types, such as Dragon and Fighting, as well as Rock and Steel. This means that Kyurem-B loses 25% switching in, if Stealth Rock is up, which cuts into its impressive bulk. Kyurem-B is also disadvantaged due to the fact that it is weak to many common forms of priority. With Mach Punch Breloom and Bullet Punch Scizor roaming OU, both pokemon can do large amounts of damage, picking off Kyurem-B once its health drops to a certain point. Lastly, 90 base speed, while respectable, isn't quite fast enough to outspeed some of the more common offensive pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Garchomp, which allow it to be revenged without too much difficulty.

    During the recent suspect test, users heavily debated the stats of Kyurem-B as to whether it was too strong for OU, however when the voting was carried out, the majority of voters felt that Kyurem-B was fine in OU, and for now at least, its here to stay

    Level Up Moves

    Show Hide

    — Icy Wind
    — Dragon Rage
    8 Imprison
    15 AncientPower
    22 Ice Beam
    29 DragonBreath
    36 Slash
    43 Scary Face
    50 Glaciate
    57 Dragon Pulse
    64 Imprison
    71 Endeavor
    78 Blizzard
    85 Outrage
    92 Hyper Voice


    Tutored Moves

    Show Hide

    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Pulse
    Earth Power
    Endeavor
    Hyper Voice
    Icy Wind
    Iron Head
    Outrage
    Roost
    Signal Beam
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Zen Headbutt


    TM/HM Moves

    Show Hide
    Hone Claws
    Dragon Claw
    Toxic
    Hail
    Hidden Power
    Sunny Day
    Ice Beam
    Blizzard
    Hyper Beam
    Light Screen
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Safeguard
    Frustration
    Return
    Psychic
    Shadow Ball
    Double Team
    Reflect
    Rock Tomb
    Facade
    Rest
    Round
    Echoed Voice
    Focus Blast
    Fling
    Shadow Claw
    Payback
    Giga Impact
    Stone Edge
    Rock Slide
    Dragon Tail
    Swagger
    Substitute
    Flash Cannon
    Rock Smash
    Cut
    Fly
    Strength


    Possible Sets

    Physically based Mixed

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive nature
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    Specially Based Mixed

    Kyurem-B @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    ~Dragon Claw
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Earth Power
    ~Focus Blast

    Choice Scarf

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Outrage
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earth Power

    Sub Hone Claws

    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 Spd / 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Hone Claws / Earth Power / Ice Beam
    - Roost

    Sub + 3 Attacks

    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
    - Dragon Claw

    Choice Band

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Outrage
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earth Power

    Kuzan (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 60 SDef / 84 Spd / 16 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Rock Smash

    Conclusion

    Kyurem-B has its obvious strengths and weaknesses, but there is no doubt that it has great potential in OU. For example, its one of the few dragon types that is not weak to Ice attacks, making it slightly more difficult for one of the more common revenge killers in OU, Genesect, to revenge with Ice Beam, while also not worrying about Mamoswines Ice Shard, unlike its other dragon types. In regards to "the Cube's" impact on the OU metagame, only time will tell, for now, please post your experiences, opinions, viewpoints and suchlike on Kyurem-B in OU, in this thread. Remember to stay on topic, and try not to discuss its tiering please.



    ill try and add proper questions later, im tired and its past midnight
  2. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Add its stats and movepool; at the very least link to the Strategy Pokedex.

    Pocket EDIT: Did it for him
  3. Masamune

    Masamune

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    I don't expect it to be that popular - weaknesses to two types of common priority (fighting/steel), all three entry hazards (SR in particular), a rubbish movepool, low-ish base speed and no priority of its own make for a rather underwhelming Pokémon. Beneath that incredible attack lie some huge flaws. Pretty much any bulky steel handles it - Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Cobalion and so on. I expect DragMag teams to rise in usage now that he's OU, as a CB outrage is face meltingly powerful on anything that doesn't resist it, but outside of that, he really has no niche as he's outclassed by others in certain areas.

    Also, Kyurem-G does the SubRoost set infinitely better, due to Pressure. Kyurem-B doesn't have a lot going for it and as such, needs to make use of what it has - namely, that base 170 attack.
  4. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Cube can get past spdef rotom-w with EP thanks to Teravolt, however. Something Kyu-C can't do.Teravolt also cancels Multiscale, sturdy, etc.

    I would honestly use KB over KC as special attacker because of Teravolt.
  5. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    I wonder how feasible it would be to run a babiri berry for it, or how good a EB set would work out...
  6. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
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    Well, to be honest, it's not like specially defensive Rotom can do anything to regular Kyurem. Its hydro pumps won't even break Kyurem's substitutes in one hit so it can just be stalled out of PP with pressure. Same with multiscale, stab ice beam will kill Dragonite through multiscale most of the time (94,44% - 111,11% to offensive Dnite). Sturdy Pokemon like Skarm and Donphan can't really touch Kyurem and are both 2HKO'd by ice beam so I don't see why you would use a full special Kyurem-B over its standard form.
  7. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    I feel Bronzong is getting more popular as of late (at least from my OU experience. I run into it often, maybe im just bad) and Teravolt EP lets cube get past it, which is another thing KyuC cant do.
  8. Haunter

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    I honestly don't think that it's worth sacrificing 22 points in SpA just to get coverage against an UU Pokemon like Bronzong. According to my experience on the suspect ladder Kyurem-B's best sets are choice band and mixed ones.
  9. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    Kyurem-B's SpD is actually "only" 90

    Also, how good/bad is Hidden Power Fire on this guy?
  10. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    I'd like to point out that a few of Kyurem's sets are now rivaled or even out-classed by Kyurem-Black; this includes purely Special sets as well since Black's Special Attack is very much on par with the normal form. The far superior Teravolt ability, new BoltBeam coverage in Fusion Bolt, and Kyurem-B's immediately threatening Attack stat let it not only hit threats Kyurem can't hit without using it's precious, usually committed, Dragon-STAB attack (like hitting Rotom-W with Earth Power or Balloon Heatran with HP Fire should it lack Focus Blast or Fusion Bolt; there's also Thick Fat and Sturdy!) but will also draw-in Physically Defensive Pokemon that Special-oriented or Mixed sets can destroy. However, Kyurem-Black can't Pressure stall so SubRoost Kyurem still goes unrivaled for the most part.

    With a mixed-offense monster like there are a lot of possibilities to explore!
  11. StairFall

    StairFall

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    Being weak to steel will be this guys downfall. Taking double damage from the dragon resist's STAB just makes it walled even harder than usual and staying in on steels a worse move in general. Ferro's iron barbs especially mean outrage in general is a no-no. Choice scarf Jirachi can flinch hax it with a super effective iron head.

    Ice typing will prove to be his biggest hurdle.
  12. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
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    I'm pretty happy that cube has dropped, and although lots of players think hes bad I just think a lot of people aren't using him right.

    Both of the choice sets are pretty average imo, and are done better by another dragon in OU. Scarf is done better by salamence who has a fair better speed tier for the job as well as moxie to really get that snow ball effect going which is like having a sweeper and a revenger rolled into one, much better than cube who only has bulk over it. The band sets are alright, but if I wanted a banded dragon I would either go with Dragonite, who has the precious extremspeed or otherwise Haxorus, who has a better speed tier, most noticably outspeed the newest edition to the tier, cube himself. Also max speed on band is sort of wasteful imo, if you run enough to outspeed adamant dragonite you aren't missing out on anything much besides opposing cubes, an EV spread of 120HP/ 252Atk/ 136Spe will let you do that and it adds to cubes impressive bulk. But yeah overall the choice sets are also easily revenged by the common priorities from breloom and scizor, and the choice scarf set is fairly easy to wall and contain as well and revenge, and the band set is really just a free kill to many OU mons once its decided to outrage.

    Sub + 3 attacks cube is really awesome, the abilty to avoid revenge killers is just amazing on a mon such as cube. Breloom, Scizor, Terrakion, Landorus, Haxorus, Hydreigon, CB Gene w/ Iron Head and Salamence are all mons who are now not beating you, and if you can keep that sub up your avoiding all the harmful status that also plagues cube, such as WoW and T wave, which is a great asset for him to have. The oppurtunites to sub up are also numerous here, as with its well above average bulk and the abilty to make over 101HP subs, it can create huge subs often and once behind them wreck havoc. Also of note is the very nice abilty to take on a lot of water type moves in the tier with significant investment, and Lum + Sub cube can beat a lot of bulky waters who will attempt to burn with scald or poison with toxic respectively, and they just become mere set up bait to you with lum, but leftovers is usually better.

    Mixed 4 attack variants really are close to the death of full stall in OU. With special attack higher than latias and nearly the highest attack stat in the game, not to mention those amazing offensive dual STAB's, common stall components such as Blissey, Skarmory, Gliscor, Forretress and others are in for a rough time, as with cubes above bulk, a speed tier that outpaces most stall mons and its ok set of resistances, it can terrorize the few full stall teams that show themselves in OU. Also LO + Roost cube makes for an excellent offensive tank, it can take most hits that aren't SFE and can roost off the damage, while hitting back hard off of its giant attacking stats.

    Really looking forward to see how cube settles into the meta
    Also haunter when you deleted gingas thread I had to write this up all over again >:(
    EDIT by Haunter: I just merged his thread with this ;)
  13. Endeby

    Endeby

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    Well, there goes the last bit of motivation I had for trying out stall in this metagame.

    Not disagreeing with the decision though, as I played enough on the suspect ladder to see how underwhelming Kyurem-B can be in today`s metagame. Going to be interesting to see if someone can build a top-tier team around him. Sub + 3 Attacks is mean, especially with Blizzard on Hail teams.
  14. flea

    flea

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    This is pretty nitpicky, but in the OP the pokedex stats say base 95 speed (which is correct) but in ginga's analysis he says it has base 90.

    So yeah, I've faced a few of them on the new ladder and it's really still pretty underwhelming. It really hates all hazards and is weak to several current big metagame threats. Based on what I've seen I think the sub variant is the one I will be using...it forces a lot of nice switches and the priority shield is huge. Still think it's manageable and I'm glad to have it here in OU
  15. Kibago

    Kibago

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    i'll have to test him out, but he seems like a dragons+Magnezone team candidate to me. CB Outrages from him and Haxorus with a ScarfMence to clean up?

    as a team's only dragon, i'm having a hard time seeing why i'd pick him.
  16. Raging Man

    Raging Man

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    I'm pretty sure his Special Defense is 90 not 100. Might want to change that.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Ginga Fusion Bolt outclasses Dragon Claw in the specially based mixed set. Fusion Bolt offers much better super effective coverage than Dragon Claw. Dragon types are taken care of by Ice Beam. Most other Pokemon are taken care of you coverage moves. By taking a quick list at the OU list here are the Pokemon that Dragon Claw is useful for:

    Blissey, Gastrodon.

    And that's it. Everything else is taken of with your coverage moves. And note that with zero Atk investment those two pokes have very small chance to get 2HKOed after SR (like 20%).

    Fusion Bolt allows you to beat Jellicent and Vaporeon, which otherwise wall you, Politoed, which can otherwise have at shot at burning you, Keldeo, which can otherwise survive anything else and set up one CM, Gyarados, which can otherwise set-up one DD and attempt to sweep if Kyurem-B is weakened, and finally to OHKO Starmie, which maybe can't do a lot back, but an OHKO is better than a 2HKO right?

    Also i believe that HP Fire should be slashed with Focus Blast. HP Fire allows Kyurem-B to deal with otherwise problematic Pokemon, such as Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn. Yeah i know that FB hits all of them hard, BUT it is unreliable and doesn't OHKO any of them.
  18. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    It might be a good suicide lead where you just spam banded Outrage with fully invested attack. It 2hko many bulky steels and 3kho pretty much all but skarmory, forettress and ferrothorn. 1hko pretty much everything else.
  19. AJC

    AJC

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    ^ blindly spamming outrage gets you killed by CB Scizor bullet punch.

    Kyurem-B has a major issue with it's physical sets because of how limited it is on that side for coverage both fusion bolt and outrage have downsides that allow it to be rather easily maneuvered into not doing as much damage has something with it's stats would suggest.
  20. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    Well blindly spamming outrage is a bit of an overstatement... there are a few pokes that can take an outrage decently, namely very bulky steels and stuff like Scizor who can bullet punch. However banded outrage 2hko scizor, so scizor can't switch in and it ohko most leads outside of very bulky pokes. It has a 38% to ohko 252/0 tyranitar with outrage. A simple solution is to not lead vs scizor. It does 86-101 to 252/0 Deoxys-D. Suicide leading Kyurem-B allows you to not worry about hazards.

    Not to mention it crushes genesect leads (which are the most common lead in this meta) and ohko politoed.

    The coolest thing though is that you can just run hidden power fire on Kyrem-B and it ohko scizor
  21. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    Semi-off topic but Kyu-B really needs to be moved down to OU in the on-site tiers. It's still in Ubers there.
  22. HAiGAizZ

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    Ohkoing scizor isn't going to help you whatsoever, as I don't see it switching in on you, and BP bypasses your higher speed.
    The problem I see with lead cube is that it's going to kill something, be locked into outrage, then die to a revenge killer. Terrakion, Scizor, Latios, Garchomp, Jirachi etc etc etc will just come in afterwards and kill your Kyurem, wasting it.

    On a more general note, I definitely don't see cube getting all too much usage as soon as the hype dies down. Ferrothorn is as common as ever, and this thing is easy to revenge kill. Banded cube might be a fun thing to use, but as soon as you hit that Outrage button you're writing a big sign on your chest that says "REVENGE KILL ME". Factor in that it's affected by all hazards and weak to SR and we have a poke with terrible longevity, especially if you choose to run Life Orb.

    That said I'm definitely going to try this thing out to have a little fun (probably play around with CB because pwrfl), but I definitely see the other dragons having more usage in the long run.

    Also fun fact, this thing is statistically more physically bulky than Skarmory.
  23. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    Well if you lead with Kyruem-B and they lead with scizor you get a kill. Kyruem-B is super easy to revenge kill, but if you ohko with max health, you're living a lot of revenge killer's attacks. Kyurem-B might be a good candidate to recieve a shell smash, making it able to outspeed most pokemon and 2hko pretty much everything.
  24. Ninelol

    Ninelol

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    Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spd
    Lax Nature
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    Survive all the attacks, if his speed is holding him back rely on his bulk instead! Can take CB Scizors bullet punch after rocks, Breloom's mach punch in the same fashion and KO with coverage. 2hko's ferrothorn outside of rain, can take scarfed STAB SE 120 base attacks up to Adamant Haxorus's outrage and KO back with his own outrage. Almost the same attack as Adamant Haxorus with silly bulk.
  25. NannyCakes

    NannyCakes

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    People are very prone to mention the fighting/steel weakness in terms of weakness to priority (Mach/Bullet Punch). The only reason this can be seen as a threat is when coupled with Stealth Rock weakness, considering that Terrakion is also weak to those moves, and in terms of natural bulk, Kyurem-B outclasses Terrakion. Also, other than Speed and Sp. Defense, where there is a tie, it outclasses Terrakion in every stat. And Terrakion is pretty good, so yeah.

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