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Kyurem-B

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ginganinja, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    I am EXTREMELY intrigued by anything that manages to run Freeze Shock.

    Again, I'm just a noob, but it's worth saying that even if it is "easy to switch a resist in", you're hitting with Base 170 Attack, +Atk Nature, 252 Atk EVs, and a Base 150 STAB move. Perhaps it would be interesting to see how hard that would hit against the things people are most likely to switch in to resist it?
  2. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    252Atk Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Freeze Shock vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Tentacruel (+Def): 39% - 46% (144 - 170 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Freeze Shock vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Heatran (Neutral): 18% - 22% (73 - 86 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.

    That should give you a general idea. You basically need quad resist or a very, very bulky Pokemon that resists it.
  3. FrostFire

    FrostFire

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    @ DarkestSamus: Minor correction, Freeze Shock has 140 base power, not 150.
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/freeze_shock
    Just thought I should mention it :)

    The problem with Freeze Shock (and similar-ish moves like Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Sky Attack etc, etc) is that while you spend a turn 'charging', your opponent won't just be sitting idly by. They will be attacking you, they could be setting up on you, or doing any number of nasty things. Seriously, in pokemon, there are few worse things you can do than simply giving your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want. Worse still, not only are you giving them a free turn, but in the case of Freeze Shock, your also telling them EXACTLY what you're about to do, no prediction required.

    Another problem with this move though is that, if you're going to be spending two turns attacking anyway, then why not just click Outrage? Dragon and Ice are kind of similar in offensive coverage; both hit Dragons SE, both are resisted by steel. Ice is SE against a few more things (like flying, grass) but when you have 170 Attack, does that really matter? And besides, Dragon just has better neutral coverage. There is the confusion I admit, but if that's unappealing, then even Dragon Claw is probably better. I mean, two Dragon Claws in a row will out-damage one Freeze Shock (DClaw= 80+80=160, FS=0+140=140, if you get what I mean).

    Also, Freeze Shock is only 90% accurate. Imagine spending a turn charging, only to waste another turn missing... :p

    Oh, and with BROStime's set on the previous page; if you're going to use a subroost set, I personally prefer Leftovers for the item. IMO the elemental plates suck on anything that's not Arceus; Lefties will give you a bit more staying power + recovery from sub. If you want a power boost, I suppose Life Orb is an option, though that residual damage will rack up.
  4. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    Those aren't exactly uncommon Pokemon... *sigh* Well thank you for the numbers. I appreciate it!

    Well you've successfully made Freeze Shock totally unappealing to me. I also failed to notice that BROS' build lacked any Dragon STAB, so I would be inclined to agree that Freeze Shock should probably be replaced with Outrage, or perhaps Dragon Claw. Still, I do like BROS' build; It utilizes the maximum power that I find so appealing, but it also utilizes his natural bulkiness. Plus, it's not like Kyu-B has better things to do with the moveslot ;)
  5. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Well, people tried SubBounce Gyarados and that's a two turn move. Then again, its his only Flying move.
  6. Bossness

    Bossness

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    People also use Shadow Force Ghost Arceus. The difference here is that they avoid taking a hit during the first turn. Gyarados gets leftovers recovery during the charge turn. Ghost Arceus can use that charge turn to get in another turn of toxic spikes damage. There is only one normal type that commonly appears in ubers and that is chansey which isnt really going to switch into Ghost Arceus. Oh and just to show you the power of a +2 Shadow Force:
    252Atk Spooky Plate +2 Multitype Arceus (+Atk) Shadow Force vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Groudon (+Def): 68% - 80% (277 - 327 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Now, Freeze Shock: No 1st turn protection, inaccurate, does not bypass protect(Shadow Force does), too many common resists(Shadow Force is also resisted but Ghost Arceus can use Brick Break). Kyuem-B cannot hit everything that resists Freeze Shock with another move.

    EDIT: I wanted to say defensive normal type. My bad. Anyways if Ghost Arceus is at +2, Normal Arceus is really not going to switch into it.
  7. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    It should be mentioned that the 30% paralysis rate can potentially cripple things that resist it. The only two quad ice resists in OU (Cloyster and Heatran) are completely ruined if they're paralyzed and will take massive damage from Fusion Bolt afterwards. But anyway, no, Freeze Shock without Power Herb is not good in OU. In Ubers it's still barely usable because Kyurem-B outspeeds all the base 90's and all of them (even Kyogre) take massive damage from it, with Ho-oh, Lugia, Reshiram, Zekrom, Giratina and Groudon being OHKO'd most of the time.

    I can see Power Herb Freeze Shock having some use in a last-ditch wallbreaker set with max Atk and Sp.Atk EVs and Draco Meteor, Fusion Bolt/Outrage and Focus Blast/Earth Power - you only get one chance to come in and wreck havoc, but if you paralyze something you're pretty much guaranteed to take it out.
  8. Siggu

    Siggu

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    The problem Freeze Shock has that attacks such as Bounce, Fly, Shadow Force, etc. don't is that the charging turn does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, unlike the aforementioned moves, which have a Protect-like effect on the charging turn
  9. Bluwing

    Bluwing

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    Well as I said, when Kyurem is paired with Dugtrio this set can actually work as you can trap the Steels with Arena Trap and after they are gone they really dont have anything to take a Freeze Shock. I know this is kinda lame that Freeze Shock works like this, but im just trying to be creative and you guys have to agree, with that huge subs it gets this set can actually work as anything bar some steel types can switch in and take the Freeze Shock without beeing KO'd or even paralyzed. Well anyway its cool that you guys are talking about it and I will look for a more viable set that is not to easy to wall. But this set also means that now you cant run just Skarmory or Ferrothorn on your team, you need two steel types and Skarm + Ferro wont work anymore.
  10. AJC

    AJC

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    also to those going "just run HP fire for scizor/ferro" they are commonly used with rain and are not 2hkoed unless your running specs and a load of special attack evs which at that point you might as well be using base kyurem for a specs set.
  11. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Kyurem-B is an anti-rain pokemon and shouldn't be used in a rain team regardless.
    If you have trouble maintaining your own sun/sand/hail weather over the opponent's rain then the problem is not Kyurem-B. Politoed is not switching on Kyurem-B unless locked into Ice Beam or HP Fire (which shouldn't be used in a choice set ragardless), that's for damn sure.

    During the suspect test many players made the mistake of using Kyurem-B in a rain team, which is the main reason its validity was heavily debated.

    I have successfully used a Chople Berry set. If Breloom comes in to revenge you it's dead. Terrakion will most likely use Close Combat over Stone Edge - with some HP investiment and Chople Berry, Kyurem-B can survive Terrakion's CB Close Combat after SR damage and can OHKO in return with Outrage with entry hazards support.

    Use it in a MagDrag team so that Magnezone can take care of Scizor and steel types in general.
  12. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    May I ask which Nature/EV spread/moveset you've utilized that you've found successful with a Chople Berry? I am intrigued. Thanks!
  13. Onicon

    Onicon

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    There is no need for a specially tailored set. In most cases you can treat a Chople Berry as a splashable: It works with most sets because even CB-Terrakion cannot OHKO Hasty/Lonely QB, assuming you have not taken any prior damage.
    There is one thing you have to consider: OHKOing Terrakion is hard. If ElectivireRocks had used a neutral Atk nature, there would have been a need for three layers of spikes in order to OHKO it 100% of times (50% with one, 81,50% with two layers). Therefore I think there had been an Adamant or Lonely QB with 252 Atk at work. It only needs one layer of spikes to finish Terrakion.
  14. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Yeah I run Adamant nature on Kyu-B.
    I'm still trying to find the correct balance of HP and Spe EVs. Running max speed is pretty pointless, but you can't afford to get outrun by things such as Dragonite.
  15. PDC

    PDC payback
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    Kyurem-B is a pretty cool Pokemon if you ask me, and I feel that it may have been a bit underrated throughout the entirety of the test. I honestly thing the true key to Kyurem-B's success is that it has a combination of great attacking stats and pretty stellar defensive stats too, especially that gigantic HP stat that is unheard of for most offensive Pokemon. Kyurem-B does a fantastic job as a Substitute user and Defensive Based role as a Dragon Tail Hone Claws user. During the suspect test I have faced bulky Kyurem-B which actually managed to survive some unexpected things. I could not give the exact EVs as it was my opponents (jrrrrrrr) but it survived a Scarf Salamence's Outrage, which I thought was very impressive. I had no idea how bulky this thing was until that incident happened, I thought it was a sure KO but It instead screwed me over for the rest of the game.

    Instead of doing a pure offensive approach to Kyurem-B which it seems like everybody originally did at first, Kyurem-B shines more for me as a more bulky offensive or defensive team role. I am talking about Hone Claws sets, those strange Substitute versions and even some obscure bulky Choiced Banded variants. I am not saying pure offensive sets are bad, but Kyurem-B, at least in my opinion, can work as more of a bulky attacker than a pure offensive juggernaut. Kyurem-B does do a pretty powerful Choice Scarf and Choice Bander, capable of revenging or breaking through walls with that massive attack stat. Choice Scarf makes use of the solid speed it has along with the huge attack that it can use to even revenge bulkier threats and take them out quickly. If you ask me Salamence is the better canidate for this role of Scarfer, but Kyurem-B defiantly has a solid niche in being one. Choice Band is a great item for it and turns it into a powerful wall breaker who can 2HKO practically any Pokemon in the game with a strong Outrage of Fusion Bolt. Ferrothorn is the only Pokemon who can safely come into this, and it can be easy eliminated or worn down through Magnezone and residual hazards.

    I don't think it is worth to run Freeze Shock on Kyurem-B really, and I dislike it and would not really advise anybody to use it as because it is a Charge Move it is easily exploitable. You can easily exploit it and gain a free switch in or layer of hazards with no real progress. However with the newly release I found that some Pokemon are gaining some more respect in my eyes than before. Bronzong is a great Pokemon, and with Kyurem-B being released into the metagame it has just become a bit better. It can easily take every move Kyurem-B has aside from maybe a Choice Band boost Fusion Bolt and Gyro Ball it to death. It also is hard to be trapped by Magnezone as you carry Earthquake, allowing you to escape death most of the time. Anyway I am glad he is in our metagame now and that he can now be used to a much fuller potential than in Ubers. He can make great use of his Water and Electric resists, and even though his weaknesses may be prevalent he is a great Pokemon to use none the less. I will definitely be using him on my more balanced Hail team now, and I look forward to seeing how good he will turn out as time passes! By next month he will probably manage to become a top 20 threat where he belongs.
  16. SotheBlacKnight

    SotheBlacKnight

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    So I have played with Kyurem Black for about over a dozen battles now and I do have to agree with the statement that he is most useful as a rain counter. In the majorities of battles where there wasn't rain on the opponent's side he tends to sit and do nothing unless there's a water type he can take out.

    I have been using this set so far:

    Kyurem-Black @ Power Herb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Freeze Shock
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Roost

    Again normally he just comes out on water types and spams Fusion Bolt on them and he's really only good for that. He's bulky enough that he can take most Water-stabs pretty well even in rain, though outside of specs Politoed, Gyarados, Starmie and Keldeo waters in OU are mostly bulky walls and out of the offensive ones mentioned Keldeo is the only one you should never fight against. Freeze Shock is there to catch people off guard but otherwise it's just a one use super move for things that resist FB.

    He's certainly good at his job but if it isn't needed he just tends to be benched for the others on the team, though that might be my fault.
  17. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Kyu-B can do more than that.
    Any set with sub sets up on Chansey and Blissey very easily, as well as Gliscor, since it will never use Taunt on Kyu-B and the threat of the strongest Ice Beam in OU scares it off.
    Hippodown sand teams are at immediate disadvantage if Kyu-B has Ice Beam and he can single-handedly demolish stall teams, though they're pretty rare now.

    I even played with a specially bulky RestTalk (I needed a status absorber in my offense-oriented team) set once and beat Latias one on one. Her Dragon Pulse failed to 2HKO.
    Not being locked by Outrage when it's selcted by Sleep Talk is pretty cool, and nobody will ever think to setup on a sleeping Kyurem-B (including CM Latias). I ran Fusion Bolt+Outrage but Dragon Tail could be used in place of either.

    Anyway as I said my favorite set is the Chople Berry one. Breloom falls to it so easily it's hilarious.

    As shallow as its movepool it is, Kyu-B's high stats allow him to effectively run a variety of sets that would have been gimmicky if it wasn't for its beastly attack. It's much more versatile than it looks on paper.

    I completely agree with this and it's been my approach with Kyurem-B right from the start.
    Speed EVs on a 95 base speed mon will rarely make a difference, but defensive EVs on 125/100/90 defenses can allow it to survive things it normally wouldn't.
    Even without investiment its attack is very impressive - 0 Atk Kyurem-B has more attack than 252 Jolly Garchomp.
  18. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    I took a mixed Kyurem-B for a spin with a brand new Hail team, and I have mixed feelings about it. On one end, it hits like a truck from both sides of the spectrum. However, a slightly weakened Cube has serious problems with Techniloom and it's slower than every OU Dragon except Dragonite, and OHKOed by all of them. I've never really thought of a Choice Scarf set to compensate for its low Speed stat, but I see absolutely no reason to use Scarf Cube over Salamence. All in all, I find the reason to use Mixed Kyurem-B is the fact that it hits so damn hard on the physical side without investing so much (376 Attack uninvested is nothing to laugh at). I still like Attack investment to get that extra "oomph" out of Outrage and Fusion Bolt. This is the set I've been using:

    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 120 Atk / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Outrage
    - Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire / Roost

    The Speed EVs are set specifically for outrunning Adamant Dragonite; I see no reason to go any higher than that since it's bulky enough to easily survive neutral hits, one of its advantages over its competition. It hits pretty much everything hard; Skarmory, Blissey, Rotom-W (Teravolt makes Levitate its bitch), and.... Okay, let's just say Kyurem-B has no safe switch-ins. If you thought you could run Bronzong to beat it, Teravolt still makes Levitate its bitch. Bronzong gets 2HKOed by Earth Power and Gyro Ball does not OHKO Kyurem-B. HP Fire is really only useful for Ferrothorn, and I guess Roost can come in handy for recovering from LO recoil. I typically find myself taking out three Pokemon easily with this thing (though that's nothing to me really, I've frequently been able to take out four Pokemon just using Scarf Salamence)
  19. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    @ElectivireRocks: Please report here your observations on the balance of HP vs. Speed on Kyu-B as you research them. I, too, am interested in running an Adamant 252 Atk build with Substitute so I'd love to hear what you find!
  20. Siggu

    Siggu

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    If you want to run a set with Substitute, investing at least 54 EVs in HP may be useful, in order to give Kyurem-B 404 HP

    You can then use 252 Atk/202 Spd or you can do some calculations to see how you can invest defensive EVs to survive certain hits
  21. Strykeypoo

    Strykeypoo

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    Does HP Fire add a OHKO or any 2HKOs on Ferrothorn that Blizzard would miss out on? I could see Earth Power being useful for Heatran though, who could otherwise try to come in and take an Outrage (as much as anything can 'take' Outrages from this thing).

    Also, I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but how viable could Iron Head be considered? While Iron Head wouldn't hit as hard as Outrage after factoring in STAB, I imagine it would hit Tyranitar and Terrakion pretty damn hard, without leaving you locked into Outrage.
  22. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    I have been running this set for kyruem to great success with a team I so far peaked at 7#
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3474824

    Kyurem@life orb
    [​IMG]
    Adamant
    56 Hp 240sped 216 attack
    Adamant
    Fusion bolt
    Dragon claw
    Earth power
    Sub

    I know what your thinking life orb on a sub set lol??? But here is the thing kyruem despite his bulkiness is very frail due to that long list of weaknesses that give a lot of Pokemon a se attack against him. So I find with lefties he wasn't lasting long anyways, but with life orb he was far more brutally punishing in the raw power of his Attcks and to make sure 95%of the time was a 2 or oh ko I paired him with deoyxs to make sure he could. His raw power is insane but he is so limited in switch ins at the best of the time. He is like a bulldozer going through a house on a cliff, it's going to get wrecked but so is the house.
  23. HardCore

    HardCore

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    Mixed Kyurem B late game has some of the best results of any common OU mon I've seen lately. It's Base stats and diverse move pool make it a complete and total monster perfect for late game sweeping. It's Special attack barely fell in light of it's attack rising to new heights.
    HP 125| Atk170 |Def100 |SpA120 |SpD90 |Spe95 |BST700

    With an HP above 100 and speed at 95 you would have made a great mistake in leaving it last to kill. With LO on it I don't even miss normal Kyurem's Special attack, because now I can switch to outrage and just decimate special walls.

    Lastly Kyurem-B has a kind of dissimulation with its use on the ladder, because everyone doesn't know what it is and because people are either guessing what kind of LO it is or think it's mainly physical. I'm glad to see it in OU, even though I'm surprised at it's lower usage since its suspect test. When you step back and look at it there are very few Pokemon with such a vast movepool, great base stats all over, great resists, and great mixed potential most of all. I mean really what other amazing mixed Pokemon are being used in OU mixed and really wrecking the opposing team?
  24. Enguarde

    Enguarde I only play ADV UU
    is a Battle Server Moderator
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    After playing match after match with Kyurem-B trying to find the the perfect set and ideal conditions for it to work in, I've found that this set below works brilliantly.

    [​IMG]
    Willie (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 116 Atk / 176 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Substitute
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Blizzard

    Under hail support this set can cause major damage to a large proportion of the OU tier. Ferrothorn even at its most specially defensive is 2HKO'd by blizzard when considering hail damage and definitely can't switch in on it. The mixed set is definitely Kyurem's most viable set in order for it get past the pokemon that walled it early on in suspect such as Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Forretress etc.

    Obviously this set isn't meant to be unleashed early on, but once it gets behind a sub mid/late game it can clean up teams extremely fast due its raw power, deceptive speed and great coverage.

    Sub is an amazing move on Kyurem-B since it can easily allow it dodge status and begin dealing dame to pokemon which don't have a way to break its sub. Although that sounds classic of most late game sweepers (especially Garchomp), Kyurem has advantages over pokemon like Garchomp since it doesn't have and Ice weakness, resists grass/water/electric and has a far great natural bulk than most late game sweepers. Key examples of this being an advantage include the ability to tank non stab u-turns and volt switches without having its sub broken, outspending most pokemon that try to cripple it with a will-o-wisp, thunder wave etc, countering rain teams with a combination of fusion bolt and blizzard, and and being able to take on the infamous Genesect unlike other dragons.

    When under hail support to the residual damage really racks up on Pokemon like and Heatran who can no longer recover with leftovers, whilst Kyurem can keep on top on them by regaining health and dealing damage until the wall is Ko'd or Kyurem itself is forced out, keeping in mind that that upon being forced out it will have left a large dent in the opponent's wall.
  25. Siggu

    Siggu

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    I'm not very sure if Outrage is a good option with Sub, but well, it's your Kyurem-B :P

    You could use 56 EVs on HP in order to create 101 HP Substitutes, in case a brave Chansey thinks she can wall your set

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