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Kyurem-B

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ginganinja, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. green gadgets

    green gadgets

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    No Chance to OHKO it, with Focus Blast.
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 59,09% - 69,89%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)



    Damage Calc.
  2. Silenced Melody

    Silenced Melody

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    You need to remember that Haxorus gains access to both SD and DD, two valuable set-up moves that Kyurem-B would desperately like to have.

    252 +1 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 35.63% - 41.92%
    3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
    252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 33.53% - 39.52%
    3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Obviously you'd use Fusion Bolt on Kyurem-B on a Skarmory instead, but this is just a comparison. Haxorus also has the ability to solidly 2HKO at +1 with Aqua Tail in the rain and the ability to OHKO Ferrothorn at +1 with Super Power (and Low Kick after rocks I think. Can't check that).
    Kyurem-B and Haxorus are quite similar in my opinion - One boasts a huge attack (and better SpA) with no set up while the other demolishes walls when set up.
  3. Curtains

    Curtains

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    I wouldn't set up knowing my opponent has a skarmory. Of course in your example it would seem they are similar because they both don't hit one of their main counters very hard. Thats like if I said starmie and vaporeon are similar because they both hit blissey very poorly.
  4. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    Even with set up, Haxorus still isn't very good. Haxorus can use Swords Dance and may be able to kill, what, one Pokemon before something faster comes in and revenge kills it? It gets even worse when talking about Dragon Dance, when you consider Hax needs two of them in order to not get reveng killed by powerful Scarfers. It's the same issue I've always had with DD Salamence and QD Volcarona; they need to set up at least twice if they don't want revenge killed. Base 100 Speed isn't what it used to be, and base 97 for Haxorus is even worse. Honestly, I'd rather just give up on all of Haxorus' fancy bells and whistles and use Kyubey to just straight-up kill shit.
  5. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    My point is that Cube isn't 2hkoing Ferrothorn and Gyro ball destroys Cube.
  6. Bossness

    Bossness

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    What? Focus Blast + Ice Beam is a clean 2hko. Gyro ball does not OHKO Kyurem-B. Since Ferrothorn is switcing into Kyurem-B, it will be getting 2hkoed before it can retaliate with one Gyro Ball.
  7. green gadgets

    green gadgets

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    But Focus Blast has only 70% on Accuracy. When Ferrorthorn is switching-in and you miss with Focus Blast.

    I mean that Sciszor is the most used Pokemon on OU, who handles Kyurem-B very easily. Kyurem-B is good in OU.
  8. Charro

    Charro

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    "Easily" is exaggerated considering that CB Adamant Fusion Bolt does 64.1% - 75.5% to 248/0 Scizor, without a Wish passer on his team, Scizor will die the next time it switches into Kyurem-B regardless of the attack it uses since Outrage does 57.4% - 67.6%
  9. Tassa

    Tassa

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    Imagine if Kyu-B would have Ice Shard ? ^^
    Just OHKOing easily all what have a *4 Ice weakness, a lot of what have a *2 weakness, and Breloom would not be a problem anymore.
    Maybe enough to have it back to Uber, or does it need a little more ? Mmm.
  10. 725roy

    725roy

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    Even if Scizor happens to come in onto an Outrage, as long it's Banded (which is a vey common Scizor set) and has Bullet Punch, it easily cripples Kyub, if not taking it out.
  11. Hugin

    Hugin

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    IIRC, even LO Scizor is likely to take Kyu-B out after rocks.
  12. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    75% chance. 224/0 ensure it avoids an OHKO after rocks.

    CB OHKOes anyway though.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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  14. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    That video was kind of worthless. It was 2 minutes and 40 seconds of "um."


    Shortened, in case anyone doesn't want to sit through the umpocalypce: "Use it early to mid game, hone claws slow, scarf slow, salamence better for scarf, use on bulky offence and balanced offence, use it early-mid."


    Also, lol@great resistances.
  15. Tassa

    Tassa

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    He means that the first time you Fusion Bolt, you switch out, and second time Scizor is just not able to switch on you.

    Otherwhise, I up the topic about how it would have be if he learned Ice Shard but it seems to interset nobody ? x)
  16. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    In reply to the comment about Ice Shard, it would be extremely useful on Kyurem-B. I'm not sure if that's enough to send it back to Ubers though. Probably, Mamoswine owns shit with Ice Shard coming off base 130 Atk, imagine what Kyurem-B would do with it.

    Something people are very quick to miss is that Kyurem-B is astonishingly bulky and has great resistances. I tried out the SubRoost Hone Claws set with a spread of 252HP/64Def/136SpD/56Spe and found setting up on most bulky waters almost too easy, even in rain. Even specially defensive Heatran fails to break the Substitute with Lava Plume in neutral weather (not that any Heatran with sense would use Lava Plume on Kyurem-B anyway but you get the point). Another interesting calc is that Choice Specs Keldeo needs a Modest nature (lol) to OHKO with Secret Sword. It is incredibly bulky and takes on attacks very well with a defensive spread. Even without investment, Kyurem-B packs more power than a fully invested Salamence or Terrakion with neutral natures so don't think its missing out on power.
  17. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    They're great if you just look at the resistances, sure, but overall Kyurem-B's resistances would be, at best, above average when you take into consideration weaknesses. Great is very much a stretch.

    Not to diss the Cube's bulk, as it is something to be feared, but its weaknesses really hurt.
  18. Siggu

    Siggu

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    Heatran is weak to Water, Fighting and Ground, but that doesn't stop its typing from being great

    Sure, Kyurem-B's weaknesses hurt, but then you consider that all its weaknesses are almost entirely made of physical attacks... and you find a pokémon whose typing is very good at the special side
  19. zbabyovr9000

    zbabyovr9000

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    Has anyone tried running mixed defensive Kyurem-B?

    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Tail

    This thing stalls out so many teams for me, especially with hazards support. Destroys rain, Specs Toed does 71.08% max with Focus Miss, LO Tornadus-T Hurricane only doing 48.12% max (yes superpower does more but then you can roost up barring crit). This thing always lives CB Victini's V-create (not under sun though, but it can take scarf under sun still of course), and takes 78.58% max from CB Scizor Bullet Punch.

    Basically this thing tanks almost anything except Dracos, Outrages, Hi Jump Kicks and Close Combats, and these moves are easy to cover with the rest of your team. And even those moves might not KO if it's coming from a scarfed mon.

    I wish I had my logs saved, this thing 1 v 4'd a guy for 50 turns and stalled them out. You should try using this :]

    PS: the reason for this over regular Kyurem: powerful dragon tail, comprable ice beam, only slightly worse special bulk. Lack of pressure is bad, but the power of dragon tail is better imo
  20. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    Tornadus-T doing less than 50% with Hurricane is very interesting. Obviously can't switch in but it can come into the water moves that rain teams try to spam, set up Substitute and go to town. There's just one thing bugging me; why Ice Beam over Hone Claws? What does Ice Beam hit that makes it so important over Hone Claws? Personally I would rather have a more powerful, perfectly accurate Dragon Tail than a move with similar coverage to my main attacking move coming off my lower attacking stat. I would much rather have Fusion Bolt or even Focus Blast over Ice Beam if I wasn't using Hone Claws.
  21. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    i have tried this and the ability to pressure stall is worth more than the power of dragon tail, as withering down the opponents moves such as stone edge while behind a sub is worth more than the rather large damage output of dragon tail in my opinion.
  22. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    For the most part Hone Clas SubTail is a better set then that one. The Sub cushions you from those dangerous weaknesses, and you can keep just not giving a fuck with a dragon tail that deals a disgusting amount of damage.

    If you're using a set like that, you might as well just use regular Kyurem for stalling shit like that, since losing Pressure makes it harder to deal with stall teams.
  23. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    With its discussion in the 15th Smogcast, Kyurem-B may get a bit more discussion and use I think. On that note, a set was discussed when Kyurem-B came up right at 19 minutes (here's a direct link to the recording) by "Kevin" BKC. Fortunately since he talked a lot like anyone who listened to the Smogcast knows, it got a great description from him in an overall sense. The only thing he neglected to reveal was the EV's and nature, so I did what he did and started tinkering with it myself. Here is what I've come up with thus far:


    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 76 Atk / 140 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Substitute
    - Earth Power
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam

    Resulting Stats: 405 HP / 435 Atk / 212 Def / 311 SpA / 216 SpD / 285 Spe

    In my mind, and being an avid user of the moth of death, I designed this to be paired with Volcarona - something Kyurem seems pretty good for. Kyurem runs from Breloom and Scizor, which Volc eats, and Volc hates Heatran and Jellicent and blah blah, which Kyurem-B can take out or maim enough. Synergy aside, I settled on those EV's so that it has 100-hp Subs, but odd numbered HP to limit residual damage, the same Speed the normal SubRoost Kyurem aims for that outruns enough overall, and the rest seperated into attacking stats. Here are some calcs for some various or Volcarona-themed threats (Honkalculator 4000):

    • 76+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 248-292 (61.53 - 72.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 140 SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 236-280 (61.29 - 72.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 140 SpA Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 264-312 (62.85 - 74.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • 76+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 132-156 (32.67 - 38.61%) -- 4.03% chance to 3HKO
    • 140 SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 31.18 - 37.12%
    • 140 SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 170-202 (42.07 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    • 140 SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 186-220 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (In case you hit it as it breaks your Sub; In sand it's 38.27 - 45.67%)
    • 76+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 44.44 - 52.46%
    • 76+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.12%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    The Attack EV's are specifically to nail Specs Politoed after Rocks (which will also now spike in use thanks to the same Smogcast), with the rest dumped into SpA to pump up the moves you'll be spamming most - the ones with more than 8 PP. With a bit of testing that I did, it is awesome so far. I wish I could make myself use LO over Leftovers, but with sand and Sub and residual damage of sorts I couldn't stand seeing my Ice God die so quickly with not much impact, so Leftovers it was. Many of these 2HKO's become OHKO's with that LO and some EV shuffling, so more power to you if you wanna try it.

    Hopefully BKC will see this and correct me if I'm nuts on this spread though. Or hate me cause I'm posting it to ruin more of his teams. We'll see. Kyurem-B is great though once you play to its strengths and give it good partners in crime.

    Thoughts?

    338 Attack with no EV's and a negative nature Jesus Christ.......
  24. Onicon

    Onicon

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    If you want to create subs bigger than 100 HP and sub down to 1 HP, go straight to 417 (104 EVs), as the given number mash up with the Leftovers number better.
    But honestly, Seismic Toss and Night Shade aren't as common as they were in RSE (and Blissey not as common as in DPP). We did that a couple of times but then decided to use less HP (401, 40 EVs) for the substitute set and eventually joss extra HP at all.

    We have been tempted to use Life Orb instead of Leftovers, just because it converts tons of 2HKOs. Although you short its lifespan it still makes sense as you build up your substitute against something you resists and then 2HKO something that might hit you otherwise.

    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Substitute

    Mild is needed because you will score alot of extra KOes you won't be able to otherwise. Set up on the ones you counter, then you can check your checks comfortably
    Show Hide


    • 20 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 382-452 (99.47 - 117.7%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO (have some hazards)
    • 252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 369-437 (95.84 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (much better - OHKO after SR)
    • 252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 408-484 (97.14 - 115.23%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO (Physical Wall dies - otherwise OHKO with SR)
    • 252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 195-231 (48.26 - 57.17%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (perfect 2HKO with Spikes)
    • 252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 291-343 (89.81 - 105.86%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (again, Spikes are just better, beware of the sand)
    You forgot those ones:

    • 252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Toxicroak: 377-445 (102.44 - 120.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO (impossible without Life Orb)
    • 20 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 330-390 (102.16 - 120.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO (again, impossible without Life Orb)
    • 252+ SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 272-322 (96.45 - 114.18%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO (don't have to say, do we?)
    • 252+ SpA Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 296-350 (98.01 - 115.89%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (needs SR)
    • 252+ SpA Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 260-306 (99.23 - 116.79%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO (bypass Levitate)
  25. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    With a bit of tinkering, I discovered that, with a couple hazards down - or even just SR in most of your calcs - an Expert Belt could be used over the Life Orb. That way you can still have some hit-taking abilities while not taking 16.25% damage per turn if sand is up. You still OHKO Heatran with SR and Earth power using your spread (which seems more efficient) and an Expert Belt. Conveniently, my current team is now using both SR and Spikes support, so a happy happening has happened.

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