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Kyurem you BeastStatTotal [Hail Team RMT]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by FaceFaceFace, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    Hello, and welcome to my second RMT in my relatively short time here in Smogon.

    Corny as it is, the title more or less sums up where this team came from - Kyurem. A 670 BST Dragon must be able to function in OU somehow, so I decided to build a team around it.
    It is my first team to break 1300 on PO, and working it's way through Showdown, since I'm pretty new to PS.

    I told myself I'd make a RMT when it breaks 1300 to get some advice from ye fellow Smogonites, and hopefully taking this team further!

    Without further ado, here it is:
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Preface
    I suppose the best way to classify this team is as a pseudo-Hyper Offense team, shifting gears constantly between stall-like play with Abomasnow and Kyurem, to the hyper offense presence of Gengar and Salamence. All the time, the opponent is under constant pressure from 3 substitute users - Gengar, Kyurem, and Abomasnow.

    The Team
    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Focus Punch
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed

    Abomasnow. What a Pokemon. It has nothing compared to Tyranitar's offensive presence, no boosted attacks from its weather, neither does it have a monstrously defensive stat such as Hippowdon.
    What it DOES have, is a typing so detrimental it is equally as amazing.
    I suppose the best way to describe SubSeed Abomasnow is as a utility counter. It can switch in safely to almost every support Pokemon in the game (bar steels with Gyro ball and fugly scald burns), and set up SubSeed. Blizzard is there for SE damage, and Focus Punch on anything that resists Blizzard. Focus Punch also destroys Tyranitar and dents most steels.
    Abomasnow's role in my team is a tricky one. Aside from setting up hail, it's main use is to come in on harmless stuff and start forcing switches with SubSeed, racking up small damage with hail on the way. This is a pretty crucial stally-like softening role, thus setting up Gengar and Salamence to sweep.

    EVs: Balanced defensive stats, and -Spd to control weather. There may be a few threats Abomasnow may need to outspeed that I may not be aware of. Please let me know if you do!

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP / 220 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Blizzard
    - Earth Power

    Kyurem can't sweep. At least it's not supposed to, anyway (still happens occasionally, though). I think this is the biggest misconception when people try to play Kyurem. Kyurem operates very differently to it's dragon brethren Haxorus, Salamence, and Dragonite, whose main role is to come in guns blazing and run everything over.
    In my experience, Kyurem plays best as something like a support-sweeper/pseudo-wall breaker- very much so like the aforementioned SubSeed Abomasnow, except with a significantly larger offensive presence and the ability to kill the ever-annoying Jirachi. For this reason, SubRoost, IMO, is the best way to go. Kyurem CAN take hits pretty well, aside from, uhm, those scary weaknesses. But what it can take, it takes pretty well. And unlike other dragons, it is not Mamoswine priority weak.

    Blizzard on Kyurem is the only thing on this team that is weather dependent, and together with Earth Power, forms amazing coverage.
    I usually bring Kyurem out reasonably early and start threatening with a Substitute, wearing down steels with Earth Power, and hitting like a truck with Blizzard. Kyurem switches out when it needs to, and, similarly, switches in every time it can. Think of Kyurem as the first blow of a tenderizing hammer.

    52 HP for l33t HP substitutes.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    This thing. Words cannot describe how much I love MoxieMence. No doubt everyone knows what this thing can, and is, supposed to do.

    Scarfed-Moxie Mence is my revenge killer and late game sweeper. I usually avoid using Outrage if Salamence comes out early. Usually I'd go for EQ or Fire Blast to catch steels switching in (screw you, Jirachi).

    [​IMG]
    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 228 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake

    What good is a hail team without a spinner?
    Yet Donphan is so, so much more. It is also my rocker, my physical tank, and my only priority user. What it does the best, though, is, being weak to water, grass, and ice, it is THE perfect lure for safe switch-in opportunities for Abomasnow and Kyurem.

    Come in on a physical attack, laugh at it, SR up or attack on the switch in, and you get a free pass for Abomasnow/Kyurem. 90% of the time; 40% of the time.
    EVs: 28 attack to ensure 2HKO on Dragonite after SR.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Disable
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Sub-disable Gengar.
    Gengar is my spin-blocker/wall-breaker/ mid-game sweeper, and third Sub user.
    Gengar comes in on an attack it is immune to, spikes setting attempt (disable spikes then attack), or rapid spin attempt. The rest is history. Sub up and destroy.

    Gengar is oh. So. Good. It is perfectly capable of sweeping unprepared teams. I've swept a sun team 6-0 before on PS with Gengar under hail.
    The only thing to worry about is getting out-predicted while switching in, since Gengar is rather frail.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump

    EVs: A rather weird spread on what is a rather weird Pokemon. Rotom-W is my special sponge and Hurricane check, above all else. HP Ice for flying and Dragons, Will-O-Wisp for physical attackers, Hydro Pump for stab, and Volt Switch for great momentum preserver.
    Rotom-W usually comes in on a Gengar/Kyurem counter. Since Gengar and Kyurem are such big threats, most players would not risk losing something that can take them down; which is why Volt-Switch usually works so well.

    I used to run Heatran on this slot, but the compounding fighting weakness really sucks as I have to rely primarily on Donphan to take hits - which isn't a good thing considering Donphan has no access to a recovery move. Either that, or risk Gengar. Rotom-W can't check fighting types, but at least it doesn't have to switch out, and can cripple them with Will-O-Wisp save Guts users, severely lightening the burden off Donphan.

    Did I mention that exploitable grass weakness?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Pros
    - 3 users immune to Spikes
    - Most of Ice types weaknesses covered, and resistances exploited
    - Handles Jirachi pretty well (yeah, f**k that little pixie)
    - Constant pressure with 3 substitute users
    - 99.56% of the Metagame takes hail damage (statistics may not be accurate)

    Cons
    - 3 users weak to SR
    - Most physical threats hard to handle if Donphan is out
    - Tricky against stall teams
    - Without a reliable dragon check, potentially tricky against MagDrags (haven't fought one)

    Conclusion
    While this team does not have any traditional 'checks' against many popular types (specifically dragons), and not the most forgiving team if you make mistakes, I find that it has the capability to run pretty smoothly against anyone with clever play.

    Please, give it a go, and let me know what you think! Enjoy.


    Show Hide
    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP / 220 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Blizzard
    - Earth Power

    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 228 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump

    Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Focus Punch
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed

    Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Disable
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]


    Impending Changes
    [​IMG] -> [​IMG]



    Threat list:
    [​IMG] If it's scarfed, Salamence cannot outspeed it. Troublesome.
    [​IMG] It's stab threatens half of my team (Gengar can't take a hit), and coverage moves threatens the rest. Arrgh.
    [​IMG] Abomasnow can't switch in if it's running Flamethrower. Rotom-W helps alleviate this problem with Volt switch, but a CM variant can be tricky.
    [​IMG] Takes out Abomasnow and Kyurem with ease; Rotom-W cannot burn it; Salamence cannot OHKO it; but Gengar can usually switch in and disable Payback/Stone Edge. If 'Durr predicts a Gengar switch, I'm in deep trouble.
    [​IMG] Rock polish Genesect absolutely destroys this team. Kyurem gets 2HKOed, Gengar gets 2HKOed, and Salamence cannot outspeed it.
  2. Me So Shiny

    Me So Shiny

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Interesting team, the biggest problem I see is your weakness to stealth rock. One of the worst things that can happen is having to use your spinner as a wall. While Donphan is not exactly a wall, if you switch him in to repeatedly take physical hits he will be worn down quickly thanks to hail cancelling out his leftovers. Also jellicent is fairly common spinblocker and can switch into Donphan and laugh off anything he tries and then WoW on the predicted switch out and get a free burn. I don't have any replacement pokes because it would be changing more than donphan but I see this team having a huge amount of trouble against bulky offense.
  3. victini99

    victini99

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    hi, this is a great team, i have a similar team but my donphan has adamant nature with extremely close ev's, if you see terrakion on opponent's team, try keeping donphan as much as possible, donphan takes 60% from banded adamant close combat, adamant is to pack some punch, and ko back with earthquake. an alternative method is running a scarf gengar, with focus blast if needed, if you don't feel lucky enouh to throw focus blast, keep hp fighting but wait after a close combat to revenge kill it, otherwise, great team!
  4. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Try tentacruel and heatran over rotom and Donphan to help patch up you weaknesses. You could also use SpD jirachi over heatran to help you deal with tornadus-t.

    To help deal with annoying fighting types, reuniclus is much bulkier than Gengar.
  5. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    It's a hail team, of course it's weak to SR. :chaos:
    You're right, bulky offense can be troublesome if you let them get going first.
    As for spinning with Jellicent, I usually don't try to spin if their Jellicent is still alive. Instead I look to set-up a sweep off their SR/Spiking attempts.

    I never let Donphan take hits if I can help it, but due to the nature of this team, sometimes that's just necessary.


    I've thought about Tentacruel to complement my Heatran, but Haxorus would just come in an EQ everything to dust. Same thing with SpD Jirachi. :(

    I've thought about Reuni, but as much as I love it and used it often in the past, I don't think it synergises with the team. OFT versions can't take hits well; and CM versions lack coverage and takes longer to set-up - whereas Gengar immediately becomes dangerous once it's behind a sub thanks to it's speed and Disable.

    Thanks. Hail is not the greatest team on paper, but it works okay!
    Yeah, Terrakion is tricky unless I can predict its move-set behind a Sub, which almost never happens because Terrakion would never come out on a Sub. Scarf variants are the most dangerous, but if they get locked into a move, I can look to switch in appropriately to KO or sub-up. Although if Terrakion is adamant, Salamence will outspeed and KO it with EQ.
  6. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,287
    Hey man a very interasting hail team you have here!

    Looking at you teams threat list you mentioned Slowbro, Terrakion and Infernape as threats. Scizor can also prove to be a little bit threatining to your team due to it being able to beat Abomasnow and Kyuerem as well as Salamence and Gengar if they have taken a bit of proir damage with Bullet Punch. You mentioned Gengat to be your Spin Blocker but i think your team would have much more succes with Jellicent>Gengar Jellicent helps against alot of these pokemon being able to beat Infernape and Terrakion with Scald (although Grass Knot Infernapes can be annoying). He can also take on Scizor with Scald and Toxic Slowbro. Jellicent also fufills the same role as Gengar being a more reliable Spin Blocker defensivly. You miss out on a bit of offensive pressure without Gengar but you already have Kyuerem, Salamence and even Abomasnow who can do big damage. You may be skeptical in having two Water-Types in your team but with three resists to gras and 3 resists to electric that isn't an issue at all.

    My only other suggestion is regarding your Rotom-W. With this being a hail team you already have enough Ice-Type coverage as it is weilding Ice-Type moves on 3 of your pokemon. A much better option for Rotom-W would be Pain Split>Hidden Power [Ice] especially with hail damage cancelling Leftovers Rotom-W will find itself getting worn down to quickly. Pain Split is a good way for Rotom-W to recover precious Hp points from your opponent. If you don't like the idea of using Pain Split then you can use Chestorest>Current Set which means swapping Leftovers for a Chesto Berry and Hidden Power [Ice] for Rest. This also makes Rotom-W a one time status absorber and is prefered if you don't find much options to use Pain Split on the opponent due to hail damage wearing them down to much. I highly reccomend trying both of them out.

    Good luck i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers | Water Absorb
    Bold |
    248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    Scald | Toxic| Taunt/Blizzard | Recover

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Jellicent--->Gengar

    Rotom-W
    *test out both but only imploment ONE CHANGE
    .Pain Split--->Hidden Power [Ice]
    .Chestorest--->Current Set




    ~Superpowerdude
  7. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
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    I would replace Salamence with CB scizor. Scizor's priority in hail is pretty effective. It's mostly a hit and run pokemon so it won't be affected by the hail as much as other pokemon. Volturn will allow you to deal with some offensive threats a little bit easier, especially with hail cancelling out most pokemon's leftovers.

    In addition I would give Rotom Def EVs where you put them in spdef. Although you give Genesect a spatk boost, you have kyurem to handle most sets other than CB and those with flash cannon. and flash cannon variants are handled by rotom :].
  8. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    Thanks for the rate!

    I tried your suggestion - Jellicent is a great replacement for Gengar, the only downside is that even with def EVs, Jellicent can't really act as a physical wall, aside from the things it resists.

    Pain Split Rotom is pretty nifty. You were right, I don't miss HP Ice at all.

    To be honest, I feel very uncomfortable without a Scarfer. But I'll give the Scizor set a try and see what happens.

    As for Rotom, it's main niche on my team is to check Hurricane. I use Will'O Wisp as a pseudo physical check on the switch, and it's been working okay. Without the investment in SDef EVs Rotom's going to be taking heavy hits from Hurricane. But I do see your point, the team's lack of a solid physical wall is a bit troublesome.
  9. Sylivian

    Sylivian

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Hi!

    First things first, I love how you use Kyurem. It's an underrated Pokémon that can (and probably will) cause a lot of pain :)

    So, when looking through your threat list, I can see how Jellicent patches up a lot of those weaknesses. Therefore, I second Superpowerdude's suggestion of adding Jellicent.

    Jellicent will function as a secondary psychical sponge, and therefore make it easier for Donphan to do the jobs he should fulfill. I'd like to see Donphan changed for a spinner like Tentacrue, or maybe Starmie. However, this would mean an important team member has to fall.

    TL;DR
    I recommend Jellicent
    Be careful with Donphan!
  10. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Jan 24, 2012
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    Hey, good team. I have to say only one thing, what do you do against the dragons opponents? Yeah, you can revengekill their easily, but you haven't switch in vs dragons pokemon, so forretress > donphan can be a good idea. (sdefenser set imo will work well in your team)
    Ah, use ice beam > blizzard on your kyurem, it has more pp (good for stall oppo) and it has maximum precision in the rain, sun and sand.
  11. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    Thanks for the rate. Kyurem is vastly underrated, probably because it operates differently to the other dragons. Yeah, Jellicent is definitely a good replacement for Gengar.

    This team does have a problem with dragons. I usually play around them - playing aggressively and forcing switches with SR up. At some point or another I'll catch their dragon out and kill it while behind a sub. Or I outplay and kill their whole team and revenge kill the dragon and destroy anything that comes in after thanks to Moxie. Otherwise Donphan is my best bet with Ice Shard. Abomasnow can take an unboosted Outrage and KO back with Blizzard.

    Seeing as how the team has 2 water types now, Forretress may not be a bad idea after all. I will give it a go.

    IMO Blizzard > Ice beam, even if it has low PP and weather reliant. The drop in power is very noticeable, and since this is a hail team, might as well exploit the weather. :p

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