Ladder resets

[Zarel]

So, up until now, there's been some confusion about when a ladder should be reset.

After a long conversation with tiering leaders, it's been decided that ladders should be reset:

- always, when a suspect round changes something
- possibly, when a 3-month tier shift happens (only if it causes major metagame changes, as determined by the tiering leader)

Since PS has actually never reset a non-suspect ladder in the past year or so it's been the official sim, this is a bit of a change, so I'm posting this thread to make sure:

Is everyone okay with this?

 

[Lavos]

who gets to interpret what "major metagame changes" actually means?

resets after suspect rounds seem reasonable imo

 

[Oglemi]

who gets to interpret what "major metagame changes" actually means?

the tiering leader

and yeah zarel, sure

 

[haunter]

Looks good.

 

[Arcticblast]

I definitely agree with this, although I'd like to point out that the PS playerbase would have to be informed ahead of time if we don't want a massive shitstorm on our hands.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I think the best way to define a "major change" initially would be something coming down into a tier or going up into the above tier. For example, the OU ladder could be reset after Kyurem-B's unbanning or Tornadus-T's banning, but not Tornadus coming up from UU. If Tornadus did leave UU, then the UU ladder could be reset. Haxorus dropping into UU could result in a UU reset, but not an OU one.

 

[kokoloko]

add "at the discretion of the tiering leader" at the end of that second clause and we've got a deal

 

[Rhys DeAnno]

Just a random suggestion, but maybe once we start posting the ladder to the website the final state of reset ladders could be archived in the website somewhere, to recognize the achievements of good ladderers in past states of the metagame. For example there could be an archive for each tier, and it would have a copy of the ladder just before each reset with a date.

 

[zapzap29]

I agree with Rhys' suggestion to save the ladder scores somewhere. I know that on other sites like Dueling Network where the scores are reset every few months players don't invest as much effort in laddering because they feel like their work is invalidated. Keeping the ladder scores archived should get around this problem.

 

[Cathy]

I didn't save the old scores when I reset the RU ladder today, but that can be perhaps be done in the future if there's a demand for it. We'd also have to set up a facility for viewing them.

 

[Zarel]

I didn't save the old scores when I reset the RU ladder today, but that can be perhaps be done in the future if there's a demand for it. We'd also have to set up a facility for viewing them.

I've saved the old leaderboard, but I haven't uploaded it anywhere.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I like resets after all suspect rounds. It turns the ladder into "seasons" like in Starcraft II, which are awesome. If we can save the scores, why not? They're just as valid as keeping tournament records IMO, and also they encourage testing

 

[Aldaron]

Closing this for now even if it isn't relevant to the current gen OU to focus all PR resources on this topic:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...rk-for-competitive-and-uncompetitive.3550201/

 

[ryan]

Two and a half years late, but any way we can do this? Ladder resets are incredibly rare, so much so that you could top the ladder in one metagame and stay on it after a metagame shift that completely changes what the ladder looks like. Either we could keep it at the discretion of tier leaders or do regular ladder resets like every other online competitive game with some kind of point system does. Regular resets alongside tier shifts sounds reasonable to me. That would limit it to four a year, and people would still have an incentive to play towards the end of the "season" to top the ladder before it resets.

Tagging relevant tier people off the top of my head macle QuoteCS Raseri Molk atomicllamas Sam Hikari McMeghan Sweep Fireburn

 

[ryan]

^ Arcticblast too

 

[Sam]

would support a reset every tier shift or at tier leader's discretion

 

[Arcticblast]

I like the idea of a quarterly ladder reset (every tier shift), but I don't know how users will take to it. Some sort of leaderboard here or on PS would be nice to archive people's achievements on the ladder.

 

[Raseri]

I also support a ladder reset every tier shift

 

[atomicllamas]

would support a reset every tier shift or at tier leader's discretion

 

[Camden]

LC doesn't get tier shifts, but I support resets every 3 months to clean up the ladder.

 

[Saria]

Posting to confirm that I read this and that I support Sam's post

 

[McMeghan]

Support Sam as well.
OU is a much more populated ladder tho and isn't directly affected by tier shifts, I invite every OU Ladderer who sees this post to PM me regarding what they'd prefer between a post-tier shift reset, a tier leader's decision or something else they'd judge better (post-Suspect?).

 

[ryan]

note that I would personally prefer uniformity among all the main tiers, but if you guys would prefer leaving it up to TLs, I'm happy with some kind of progress.

 

[Mizuhime]

Two and a half years late, but any way we can do this? Ladder resets are incredibly rare, so much so that you could top the ladder in one metagame and stay on it after a metagame shift that completely changes what the ladder looks like. Either we could keep it at the discretion of tier leaders or do regular ladder resets like every other online competitive game with some kind of point system does. Regular resets alongside tier shifts sounds reasonable to me. That would limit it to four a year, and people would still have an incentive to play towards the end of the "season" to top the ladder before it resets.

Tagging relevant tier people off the top of my head macle QuoteCS Raseri Molk atomicllamas Sam Hikari McMeghan Sweep Fireburn

you're gay

would support a reset every tier shift or at tier leader's discretion

also this

 

[Taliheim]

I heavily endorse this decision, on the premonition that old rankings are based off of the older metagame, and therefore do not show any skill in the current metagame, only in the old one. Therefore, they must reprove themselves in the new metagame.

For Suspect Tests, the banned Pokemon is almost always enough of an influence on the metagame to tangibly change it, and create a new metagame; as such, I approve of ladder resets after a suspect ladder if the suspected Pokemon is banned.

As for tier shifts in the lower tiers, I believe that the decision to wipe ladder rankings should come down to the tier leader; this is because tier shifts are turbulent, sometimes changing nothing and sometimes making it seem like you're playing in another generation entirely. Any reactions to such shifts, therefore, must mirror the size of the change; Tier Leaders are in a good position to make the call as to if the change is large enough to make a metagame different enough to wipe the ladder rankings.

edit: In response to Arcticblasts' post, it might be possible to code in some sort of ranking "ceiling", where when you type "/rank", it shows the highest the user has ever achieved in the ladder, disregarding resets. This way, it memorializes people's highest ladder achievements, and lets the standard user to take pride in it after resets, without the need for screenshotting. Position in the ranking (#1, #2, etc.) could also be shown alongside the other stats.