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Land Sharks on the Sea

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Edgar, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    668
    Land Sharks on the Sea

    The team:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    I always wanted to use Garchomp in Ubers but I never really came out with an appropiate role on any of the teams I've built. However, I was still curious about this Pokemon's potential. I made this team and I surprisingly got to page 1 on PO with 3 of my main alts. This team is also one of the most unique ones I've built and one of the most fun to use. Down here you'll find an individual analysis about the team members.


    Peak:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dual Chop
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage


    Not the best set up sweeper, not the best Scarf user either. However, as a lead, Garchomp can be very threatning since it has a very nice Speed and Attack base stats. I decided to run Adamant over Jolly since most of leads are already faster than Garchomp and running Jolly would make a huge difference in what I intended to do with the set I gave it. Adamant Dual Chop has a 100% of taking out Smeargle which helps a lot since Smash Pass Dialga wrecks this team. I decided Garchomp would be my Stealth Rock user since it beats Forretress and Excadrill (in rain obviously). Garchomp's dual STAB is one of the best in the game. Outrage and Earthquake just help me beat or at least land a huge hit on what is slower than Garchomp.


    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 240 HP / 232 Def / 12 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar

    I decided to run rain since I also wanted to use Arceus-Steel and keep the good synergy after Garchomp is killed by an Ice Beam the best example I can give you is Genesect, after Genesect kills Garchomp with an Ice Beam I can freely go into one of my 3 Ice restists. I decided to run Dual Defensive Kyogre since it's the one that would support this team better. Roar is to stop a sweep from Calm Mind Arceus as well as stall purposes. Scald is one of the most annoying moves in the game since it has a high chance of burning the opponent. Rest and Sleep Talk are just standard moves that every defensive Kyogre should run.


    [​IMG]
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Pain Split

    I'm not really a big fan of Forretress. However, it supports this team a lot. The idea is partially the same as Kyogre, after Garchomp gets killed I can safely bring Forry and start setting up layers of Spikes as well as spinning my opponent's hazards. Forretress also gets me get rid of Lugia and Calm Mind users such as Arceus. Impish Forretress can also wear down Extremekiller Arceus pretty easily thanks to Toxic and Pain Split. Although Hyper Offensive has taken over the Ubers metagame this Forretress set is still very viable since it can take care of common things like I mention above.


    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder


    I chose Palkia to be my Kyogre switch in since I needed a Scarf user that could outspeed Rayquaza, Kyurem and Genesect. Although not many good players use Scarf Palkia because it's weak and easier to counter than the other sets, I needed to use this one because Darkrai, Mewtwo and all the Pokemon I listed above would be a big threat to my set up sweeper Arceus-Steel. I don't really like using Draco Meteor on Palkia since Spacial Rend does a better job in my opinion, Hydro Pump helps me 2hko Arceus-Ghost in the Rain even at +1, Thunder is for taking out Kyogre and Fire Blast is to catch Ferrothorn on the switch in (although Ferrothorn doesn't really give this team problems).


    [​IMG]
    Giratina (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 212 Atk / 248 Def / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Giratina is one of my defensive walls as well as physical attackers. I always liked this Giratina set since it takes on Excadrill and other Weather abusers such as Kabutops pretty well. There's not really that much to explain about this Pokemon since the most it has are already standard on Giratina. Dragon Tail and Shadow Sneak are very standard on Giratina-O since they pack a lot of power thanks to the Griseous Orb. Earthquake helps me take down Kabutops and Excadrill, 2 pokemon that are annoying to this team (specially Kabutops). Will-o-Wisp helps me get a burn on Groudon so they become completely useless and raises my chances of winning the weather war by a large number.


    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Substitute

    Last but not least, Steelceus is one of the most underrated threats in the Ubers metagame, its typing may not be the best when we're talking about offense but, with the right support it can pierce through walls. Sub Calm Mind is my favorite set to run on Arceus-Steel since it can set up on Ferrothorn and avoid getting paralyzed by Thunder Wave which is always annoying, and also it avoids Leech Seed. Substitute also makes Giratina set up fodder if it doesn't have Roar (which most doesn't have). Steelceus also has good synergy with Giratina, Palkia and Kyogre, it's my main sweeper and pulled a lot of sweeps during the time I laddered with this team.

    Threats:

    [​IMG]
    The Bane of my existence. Offensive Ho-Oh obliterates this team if I don't get Stealth Rocks up.

    [​IMG]
    Although uncommon still is annoying to find, specially if it's Calm Mind I rely on wearing it down to the point where Hydro Pump from Palkia takes it out.

    [​IMG]
    One of the most annying threats, I rely on Palkia to 2hko it with Spacial Rend or risk Hydro Pump missing.

    Shoutout to:

    Midnight Squad
    SOTI
    IDM
    PIC
    Joey, Rik, Jamvad, Probs, Dice, Chimpact and Dux.

    Importable:
    Show Hide
    Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dual Chop
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 240 HP / 232 Def / 12 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Pain Split

    Giratina (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 212 Atk / 248 Def / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder

    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Substitute


    If you like the team give me a Luvdisc!

    P.S AJ is beat.
  2. Piface

    Piface

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
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    good team, but I suggest a tiny tweak. Move the 4 defs on palkia to spdef, to help counter scarf/spec ogre better.
  3. cfdu1202

    cfdu1202

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    That's a very well-built team, congrats!

    There's still some threats that I see:
    -Kingdra, especially special variants with surf/hydro pump, as they deal a lot to forretress and arceus, since you have rain on the field
    -You've already found out other threats, although Kyogre can deal with darkrai, and will win vs most cm arceus one-on-one by phazing (if it isn't the last pokemon).
    I would also know how you deal with spikesstacking team (forry isn't always able to rapid spin). Also, please explain the evs of giratina-o, as they seem a bit strange.
  4. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    You could always try Haban Berry Palkia and Scarf the Kyogre. Haban on Palkia allows you to get the surprise factor on many things, because people will think you are Scarfed, and if you switch moves, they'll think you're lustrous orb. Scarfogre is also good because the ability to spam water spout is nice as it does a decent chunk even to Palkia under rain, and just about 2 hits everything else in the tier if you're at full health
  5. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Hello, after reading your post I researched right away how Kingdra would wreck my team, here are some damage calcs:

    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Kingdra (+SpAtk) Draco Meteor vs 240 HP/12 SpDef Kyogre (+SpDef) : 50.87% - 60.1% 2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Kingdra (+SpAtk) Draco Meteor vs 240 HP/12 SpDef Kyogre (+SpDef) : 44.39% - 52.37% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    I don't really see Kingdra wrecking this team tbh. Also, thanks for repeating what I said about phazing Calm Mind users. About Darkrai, I don't like relying on luck since my luck isn't the best and Sleep Talk isn't really the best way to fight against Darkrai. You also asked how do I beat Spikestacking teams, everything can be done if you play Forry right lol (which I most of the times do).
  6. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    I'm not new at the game, thanks. I don't really like changing Kyogre's set to Scarf since the set doesn't really help the team more than Choice Scarf Palkia would. I like Haban Berry Palkia however, Choice Scarf Palkia supports this team better since in the long run it would be more useful than the suggested Choice Scarf Kyogre. I needed something that could outspeed this Pokemon: +1 Rayquaza, CS Genesect, Mewtwo, Darkrai, CS Kyurem-W/B, CM Arceus. Thanks for the rate I guess...
  7. cfdu1202

    cfdu1202

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
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    The problem with Kingdra is that he outspeeds your whole team. If he switches in safely, he'll just click on the right STAB, and he'll do a lot of damage. Only Kyogre can tank two attacks in a row, as everything else is OHKOed (Hydro Pump is a 2HKO on Arceus, but he loses anyway; 94.06% min on Forry).
    Sorry for repeating what you've said, but I was just commenting on your threatlist.
    If Ho-oh gives you so much trouble you can always try Bold Kyogre, giving a little extra to his defense so that he can check Ho-oh somewhat better, and replacing Fire Blast by Stone Edge on Palkia, making it at least a shaky check.

    I'm saying it again, that's a great team, and I'm sure you'll find some solutions to those threats while battling.
  8. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    >Implying I can't predict.
    I only found 2 Kingdras while using this team and I won both battles. Kingdra gets walled by Kyogre and even it does pick the right STAB move it can't do much just because "it outspeeds my whole team".

    Now, moving to Ho-Oh, even if I change Kyogre to Bold nature (which would give me more of a weakness to Calm Mind users) it doesn't really wall Life Orb or Banded Ho-Oh, which is what I meant by "Offensive Ho-Oh".

    I've run Stone Edge on Palkia while using Haban Berry, it works but, this is a Choiced Palkia so it's easier to predict around it once you know it is.
  9. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    Nice team, im rusty in ubers but youre using chomp so its an automatically cool team.

    I'd recommend switching up a bit the EV spreads in forry and kyogre to patch up your ho oh weakness, since a physically defensive kyogre pretty much walls any variant of the bird. Luvdisc'd
  10. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
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    252+ Atk Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre: 183-216 (45.29 - 53.46%) -- 1.17% chance to 2HKO

    Always 2HKO after rocks so no
  11. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Hi Edgar

    Looking at your threat list I'm curious if you have thought about using physically defensive Giratina-a over your current Giratina-O.Gira-a's sheer bulk and semi-reliable recovery will let you wall even offensive Ho-oh,which is easily the biggest threat to this team.With Giratina-A,you can wall and phaze it away to the point where the weather war is won and then it can be taken out via Kyogre+Palkia.Giratina-a's extra bulk also comes in handy vs CM Fightceus,another big threat.

    Now losing out the extra power,eq,Ground immunity and priority certainly sucks,however I think you have tools to play around them.Gira's role on this team seems mainly defensive to me so I don't think losing out the power is too big of an issue.Giratina-a's much better walling potential somewhat makes for the inability to KO Exca and Kabu straight up and while not immune to ground it can still take hits from Groudon,Excadrill and Groundceus fairly well.Finally,Mewtwo is now a bigger problem due to loss of Shdow Sneak but I guess you still have ScarfKia to revenge weakened Mewtwo or in rain and can use Kyogre/Gira to take hits and attack/phaze.

    Darkrai is a bitch to every team and your Ogre+ScarfKia is good enough to deal with Darkrai with proper play so I don't really think a change is required.Good Luck
  12. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    Hey Bryce, I actually like the changes you suggested, I'll try them out and see if how they influence in my way of playing the team, thanks man. :]
  13. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
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    Palkia comes in after SR is up

    6-0. You can't play a defensive rain team and not have a Palkia check.
  14. moonbase

    moonbase

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    262
    This is obviously a really good team, so I only have a few suggestions for it. You might want to try a rocky helmet Garchomp for it to be a more usable member to your team, and to stop lead forretress from spinning constantly on you. It would also put less pressure on Giaratia O to spinblock. Unfortunately, you'd have to run Jolly max speed garchomp, which opens a whole new can of worms. BUT, that would help a bit with beating Palkia and jot having to rely on arceus Steel+kyogre to do that for you. I have no clue about how common smash pass teams are high on the ladder, but it changing the garchomp might be worth losing a few battles once in a while. I have only encounted a smash pass team only twice on the PS ladder, so my suggestions are totally based on what I see there.

    PS:Bump up your speed creep on Giaratina O to 84 speed evs to outspeed an uninvested Tentacruel, so you have to spin away hazards me less time and avoid the burn risk.

    PSS: Donkey, your bullshit rates annoy me

    PSSS: great team and luvdisced
  15. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    Palkia has never 6-0d this team. Non-choiced gets beaten by Arceus after a couple of Calm Minds. Choiced Palkia is more annoying but It can't 6-0 me either.
  16. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    I can't really change Garchomp, I explained why I like Focus Sash better than any other item, it lures Scarfers like Genesect. It's an easier way to get Stealth Rocks up. It doesn't need a Rocky Helmet to beat Forretress since Earthquake + Rough Skin already does the job. You said I shouldn't rely on Giratina too much lol when there's other viable spinner in the tier and it gets popped by Ho-Oh too. Last but not least, I play on PO, I think PS is stupid and slow, I find a decent amount of Smash Pass teams on top of the ladder because they are made by people who can't make a decent looking team, that's why they rely on cheap stuff like Smash Pass Dialga.
  17. Haruno

    Haruno

    Joined:
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    You listed one of the worst possible solutions to stopping palkia.


    252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel in rain: 336-396 (75.84 - 89.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (336, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355, 360, 363, 367, 372, 375, 379, 384, 387, 391, 396)

    Sounds legit
  18. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    I'm drunk so w.e

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