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Landorus (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by jc104, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Landorus

    Just to make it clear, this is only an update, and so I'll be using large parts of the old analysis as a base. Credit goes to Beserker Lord and Iconic.

    [​IMG]


    [Overview]

    <p>Looking at Landorus, its stats stand out above all else. 101 base Speed puts it just above a number of extremely dangerous threats, while 125 base Attack makes it one of the most powerful physical attackers in OU. But this is forgetting Sand Force, which turns it into the premier sand sweeper in the tier, giving it almost unmatched power. On top of this, Landorus receives excellent coverage from Earthquake and Stone Edge, leaving very few Pokemon able to wall it. Even those able to deal with these two moves have to contend with Hidden Power Ice from Landorus's base 115 Special Attack stat, or even the possibility of Gravity nullifying any immunity to Earthquake. Perhaps even more problematic for the opponent is Landorus's use of U-turn, which allows it to maintain momentum while wearing the opponent down; merely countering Landorus is not enough. With its immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, Landorus can continue to do this almost indefinitely.</p>

    <p>Landorus is also capable of running an entirely different set, making use of its good Special Attack stat in combination with its second ability, Sheer Force. Of course, this set has a completely different set of counters, making Landorus even more difficult to deal with.</p>

    <p>Landorus is not impossible to deal with though. Its Speed, though good, is far from enough for an outright sweep against most teams. Its defenses are average, and its typing leaves it weak to Water and Ice, two very common attacking types. Its movepool is also lacking in places; it misses out on every Flying-type move except for Fly and Hidden Power Flying, and has a strange special movepool which forces it to rely on moves like Psychic and Focus Blast. Even so, Landorus is a force to be reckoned with, and countering it completely is nigh-on impossible.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With its excellent Attack and Speed, immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and access to U-turn, Landorus is a very strong Choice Scarf user. With the item, it becomes an excellent revenge killer, as it is able to outrun most boosted threats, including +1 Volcarona, Salamence, and Haxorus, and take them out. Additionally, U-turn allows Landorus to maintain momentum even when faced with a reliable counter. Landorus is so effective as a scout that it is commonly seen on dedicated "VoltTurn" teams alongside Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Scizor. Though its STAB move, Earthquake, might lack neutral coverage, it is exceptionally powerful in sandstorm thanks to Sand Force. As such, should the opponent's Ground-immune Pokemon be removed, Landorus can even sweep in the late-game. Otherwise, Stone Edge hits almost every Pokemon Earthquake cannot and is also potentially boosted by Landorus's ability. Finally, Hidden Power Ice hits Gliscor and opposing Landorus extremely hard, and hits Dragonite and Salamence accurately.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It is important that Speed is maximized for this set, as otherwise Landorus will fail to outrun positive-natured +1 Salamence, Volcarona, Haxorus, and Jirachi, as well as failing to tie other Scarf Landorus and Thundurus-T. Notably, Naughty Landorus is also slower than positive-natured Landorus-T, which would almost certainly be the superior option if you weren't using sand, thanks to greater power and Intimidate.</p>

    <p>There are also a few other moves that could be considered: As Stone Edge is infamous for its poor accuracy, Rock Slide could be used instead. The power drop is very noticeable, and the still-imperfect accuracy still irritating, but the 30% flinch chance is very helpful given Landorus's impressive Speed. Alternatively, you can choose to forgo Hidden Power Ice, allowing Landorus to preserve its acceptable defenses by running a Jolly nature, and instead run Explosion for one last bang. Superpower could be considered to hit Air Balloon users such as Heatran, as well as Ferrothorn. Also, since Breloom and Virizion can be somewhat problematic, you could attempt to make use of Landorus's Flying STAB. Sadly, the only moves it gets in this respect are Fly and Hidden Power Flying, both of which are far from ideal.</p>

    <p>As far as partners are concerned, your first consideration should be providing Landorus with sand, in order to boost the power of Earthquake and Stone Edge. Both Tyranitar and Hippowdon can do this, while providing additional support with Stealth Rock; entry hazards are extremely helpful for building up damage as Landorus uses U-turn. Also, you could consider using more U-turn or Volt Switch Pokemon users as Scizor and Rotom-W, allowing you to preserve momentum almost endlessly while wearing your opponent's team down. Finally, since Skarmory and Bronzong can be rather problematic for this set, Magnezone is a good partner.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Gravity
    move 1: Gravity
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Stone Edge / U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive
    ability: Sand Force

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Incarnate Landorus faces competition only from its alternate forme, Therian Landorus, as the best Gravity user in all of Pokemon. Under Gravity, Landorus absolutely destroys its usual counters. As soon as Gravity is set up, Skarmory, Rotom-W, and Bronzong will run to the hills. But it doesn't end there. As the opponent's Landorus "counter" switches out, they will be forced to contend with a Life Orb Earthquake from base 125 Attack, and quite possibly with a Sand Force boost. Almost nothing commonly seen in OU can take this, and the few things that can will often fall to Landorus's coverage moves. Hidden Power Ice decimates Breloom, Gliscor, Landorus-T, Tangrowth, and Hippowdon, while U-turn easily OHKOes Celebi. Once Gravity is up, Landorus is all but certain to attain a KO. Stone Edge is still a good move for Landorus, providing excellent coverage outside of Gravity and, with Gravity up, finally has perfect accuracy. Stone Edge is very helpful for hitting faster Ground-immune opponents as they switch in. U-turn is generally a good move on Landorus too; even though you are unlikely to have a teammate better at using Gravity than Landorus, Landorus doesn't need to set up Gravity every time it comes in.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is extremely flexible, because the only moves a Gravity Landorus truly needs are Gravity and Earthquake. As Skarmory or Rotom-W flees, Landorus will often get a free turn in which it could do a number of things. It could use Substitute, though this is best used with Leftovers, or set up Swords Dance or Rock Polish and attempt to sweep. Expert Belt could also be used, allowing Landorus to bluff a Choice Scarf before it sets up Gravity. A Naughty nature might seem tempting to increase Landorus's firepower, but this additional power is largely unnecessary, and this puts Landorus squarely into Landorus-T's territory.</p>

    <p>This Landorus set is far less reliant on teammates than the other Landorus sets, since it has the ability to smash straight through its normal counters. Instead, you should consider the effects of Gravity when selecting your teammates. Most notably, Gravity renders almost every Pokemon in the game vulnerable to Spikes, and the majority also to Toxic Spikes. Therefore, it is worth including a Spikes user such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, or Deoxys-D on your team. Forretress is especially notable since it can set up any kind of entry hazard, and also remove the opponent's with Rapid Spin. You should also consider attackers with inaccurate moves or Ground-type moves of their own, should Landorus be forced out. It's also important to consider that Gravity works both ways; you might want to consider a Grass-type such as Celebi to take Ground-type moves under Gravity, or at least think twice about setting up Gravity if your opponent has something like Mamoswine. Lastly, you'll want sand support for your Landorus in order to strengthen Earthquake – both Tyranitar and Hippowdon appreciate Gravity and are therefore great partners.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Expert Belt
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Expert Belt
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Naive
    evs: 228 Atk / 28 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Landorus is possibly the best user of Expert Belt in OU thanks to its fantastic mixed attacking stats and excellent movepool. Because Landorus is often assumed to be a Choice Scarf user if Leftovers or Life Orb haven't been revealed, Landorus can catch a lot of Pokemon off-guard. This set excels at luring common switch-ins such as Gliscor and Dragonite, thinking that they can come in for free on a Choice-locked Earthquake only to eat a super effective Expert Belt-boosted Hidden Power Ice. While Landorus is undoubtedly a potent lure, its uses certainly don't end there. Landorus benefits significantly from the coverage provided by four attacks, as well as from Expert Belt's power boost. An impressive base 101 Speed means Landorus can be a dangerous late-game sweeper once physical walls have been weakened enough.</p>

    <p>Earthquake and Stone Edge are two extremely powerful moves when coming off an immense base 125 Attack, and when combined with potential Sand Force and Expert Belt boosts, not many Pokemon will be willing to switch into this sand genie. Hidden Power Ice allows Landorus to eliminate Gliscor, which is one of Choice Scarf Landorus's primary counters, and also hits Breloom, Dragonite, Salamence, and opposing Landorus hard. U-turn may seem like a filler attack, but it's very useful for feigning a Choice Scarf and preserving momentum, not to mention OHKOing Celebi.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed is necessary to make use of Landorus's amazing Speed tier, as it outpaces common threats such as Salamence, Celebi, Jirachi, and Volcarona. The slight investment in Special Attack lets Landorus OHKO Gliscor even without Stealth Rock, while the rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack to give Landorus all the power it needs.</p>

    <p>There are a few other options for Landorus on this set. Smack Down can be used in place of Stone Edge in order to deal with Skarmory, Bronzong, and Rotom-W, but generally Gravity is better suited to taking these Pokemon down. Smack Down's only notable advantages are that it can act as a weak coverage move and that it doesn't affect your other Pokemon negatively in any way. You could also consider Superpower, for Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Pokemon, or even Stealth Rock should you be unable to fit it elsewhere on your team. Replacing the Expert Belt with Soft Sand is even a possibility, as Landorus's super effective coverage is not brilliant, and the boost to Earthquake's power is certainly appreciated.</p>

    <p>The first Pokemon you'll likely want to pair Landorus with is Tyranitar, as its ability, Sand Stream, provides Landorus with eternal sandstorm weather to boost its attacks. Due to the nature of its counters, Landorus functions exceptionally well on trap teams, especially those with Magnezone and a Pursuit user. Magnezone can trap and eliminate pesky Steel-types, especially Skarmory, which will often facilitate a sweep for Landorus at the end of matches. Similarly, Pokemon like Choice Band Scizor or Choice Scarf Tyranitar can effectively eliminate the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Gengar, and can often come in for free thanks to Landorus's U-turn. Sturdy Pokemon that resist Water-type moves can also be good partners, especially if Landorus is being used on a sand team. Rotom-W is an excellent choice because it counters Steel-types very well, while Starmie also deserves mention because it can spin away the hazards laid by Skarmory. As Landorus can lure and OHKO Gliscor, Terrakion makes a very good partner; it can spam its powerful Close Combat with near impunity once Gliscor is out of the equation.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Without a doubt, it can be said that Substitute is one of the best moves in the game, so good that it's rare to see an offensive Pokemon that can't use the move effectively. And yet, the move appears so innocuous; one might have initially thought the move was designed for stalling. But the advantages of Substitute are so much greater. By setting up as Landorus forces an opponent's Pokemon out, you get to choose the appropriate attacking move to hit the switch-in after it has switched in, while remaining safe from practically every move in the game. In other words, Substitute reduces the need for "prediction." Should the opponent not have an answer to Landorus, it prevents them from sacrificing a slower Pokemon to deal with it; Landorus will come out behind the safety of a Substitute. Should the opponent attempt to take out Landorus with an inaccurate move, such as Rotom-W's Hydro Pump, Substitute allows Landorus to take advantage of a miss, without risking being KOed. Should the opponent attempt to cripple Landorus with a status move, Substitute will block it and give Landorus another free turn with which to attack. Essentially, if the opponent does not carry a solid Landorus counter, they are going to find themselves in all kinds of trouble.</p>

    <p>The remaining three moves give Landorus near-perfect neutral coverage, ensuring that it is very difficult to deal with. Earthquake, boosted by STAB and possibly Sand Force, is extremely powerful, and cannot be so easily avoided when Landorus is behind the safety of a Substitute. Stone Edge almost completes Landorus's coverage, hitting most Flying or Levitating Pokemon for at least neutral damage. Landorus's last move, Hidden Power Ice, does a very large amount of damage to Gliscor, Salamence, Breloom, and opposing Landorus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread on this set is very simple, maximizing Speed to let Landorus tie with opposing Thundurus-T and other Landorus, while outrunning Salamence, Jirachi, and Volcarona. Running a Naughty nature would not only miss out on these targets, but would mean forgoing one of Incarnate Landorus's main advantages over its Therian counterpart. In terms of moves, this set is not exactly flexible, although it is possible to form a hybrid with this set and one of the others, such as Gravity, Expert Belt, or Swords Dance. Just be aware that it will achieve neither of its goals better than the dedicated sets.</p>

    <p>Of all the occasionally seen Landorus sets, this dislikes Skarmory the most, which is definitely saying something. It lacks even U-turn to maintain momentum when facing Skarmory, and can do only pitiful damage to it. Therefore, Magnezone support is more important than ever. At least Rotom-W is less of a concern than usual thanks to Hydro Pump's accuracy issues. Finally, as always, you'll want to support Landorus with sand, mainly for the power boost from Sand Force, but also for the extra residual damage provided. Tyranitar is the best choice here, since it can deal with some problematic opponents for this set, including Latios, Latias, and Celebi.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Psychic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the addition of Sheer Force from the Dream Radar, making use of Landorus's base 115 Special Attack stat becomes a real possibility. Sheer Force boosts the majority of Landorus's special moves, giving it greater power than the physical version outside of sandstorm, and also negates Life Orb recoil. In many respects, this set is like a faster, more powerful Nidoking, but without the brilliant set of coverage moves. Instead, Landorus is forced to use a rather strange array of moves, but, somehow, these come together to provide good super effective hits on most opponents. Earth Power is Landorus's best special STAB move, boosted by Sheer Force, and so is a given. Focus Blast provides coverage on Skarmory, which is lured in and comfortably 2HKOed, Ferrothorn, and Hydreigon. It can even OHKO Choice Scarf Rotom-W and 2HKO some Blissey after Stealth Rock damage! Hidden Power Ice may seem a strange choice, given that it is not boosted by Sheer Force and will hence cause Life Orb recoil, but it secures an OHKO on Gliscor, other Landorus, Salamence, and Breloom, as well as hitting a host of other Dragon- and Grass-types. Psychic is a move rarely seen without STAB, but is chosen here largely because it is both powerful and accurate. It OHKOes Breloom, Keldeo, Conkeldurr, and Gengar, as well as hitting Rotom-W accurately.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread on this set could hardly be any more simple. Special Attack is maximized in order to maximize damage output, and so is Speed, so that in conjunction with a Timid nature, Landorus can outrun Salamence, Jirachi, Volcarona, Hydreigon, and Haxorus, among others. A Modest nature can be a good choice; for example, it all but secures an OHKO on 4 / 0 Rotom-W after Stealth Rock damage. However, the Speed drop is very significant, so much so that it might be a good idea to run Rock Polish in the last slot. This would transform Landorus into a great late-game cleaner, though coverage on Virizion, Gengar, and Keldeo would certainly be missed. Calm Mind, Substitute, or Gravity could also be used in this slot. Calm Mind is helpful against special walls such as Blissey and Chansey, Substitute helps to ease prediction and protect from status, and Gravity allows Landorus to hit everything with Earth Power (including Skarmory, Bronzong, and Rotom-W) and to hit accurately with Focus Blast. As far as alternative moves go, the main option is Sludge Wave, which offers slightly more power than Psychic and does a lot more damage to Celebi and other Grass-types. Hidden Power Fire provides a good hit on Scizor and Forretress, but is otherwise merely used for its accuracy, since Focus Blast does more damage to almost every other target.</p>

    <p>This set can usually has problems with Blissey, Chansey, and Latias, which tend to wall it, as well as Latios and Gengar, which will outrun Landorus and heavily damage it. Therefore, effective partners include Jirachi, Scizor, and Tyranitar. A little bit of entry hazard damage is extremely helpful since it can grant a 2HKO on the aforementioned pink blobs with Focus Blast. Alternatively, you could try to lure them in with something like Trick or Psyshock Choice Specs Latios.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Swords Dance
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Explosion
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Naive / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Landorus's Speed is usually not enough to sweep outright, Swords Dance can still be an extremely useful move, allowing it to beat or at least heavily weaken most of the game's physical walls. Unlike some of the other sets, this one does not rely on the element of surprise to do so; instead, the idea is simply to overwhelm your opponent. After a Swords Dance, Landorus reaches 698 Attack, which is itself impressive, but with a Life Orb and Sand Force boost, this increases beyond the reach of any other Swords Dance sweeper in the game. This allow Landorus to achieve feats such as OHKOing Slowbro with Earthquake, and with Stone Edge, OHKOing 252 HP Celebi after Stealth Rock damage, and dealing upwards of 70% to physically defensive Skarmory. Together, these two moves hit almost every Pokemon in the game at least neutrally, even exceptions such as Breloom and Virizion taking very heavy damage. Hidden Power Ice allows Landorus to hit a few troublesome Pokemon very hard; it OHKOes Gliscor and Landorus-T, and 2HKOes Tangrowth. However, since even these Pokemon will take heavy damage from boosted attacks, you could instead consider Explosion. The additional power and coverage can allow Landorus to take out opponents such as Cresselia after a Swords Dance, even Bronzong with a little prior damage.</p>

    <p>Although this may be a Swords Dance set, it shouldn't be forgotten that Landorus is still extremely useful against more offensive teams without setting up. Landorus is still...well, Landorus; it still has good power, good coverage and excellent Speed, as well as immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Thunder Wave. It might not be able to set up every game, but it should still pull its weight the vast majority of the time.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The spread on this set maximizes Landorus's Speed, as this is its main weakness as a Swords Dance sweeper. With maximum Speed, Landorus is guaranteed to outrun Volcarona, Salamence, and Jirachi, and to tie Thundurus-T. A Naive nature is preferred if running Hidden Power Ice, as although it OHKOes standard Gliscor even with a Jolly nature, the extra power is helpful against Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Breloom, and Tangrowth. If using Explosion, Jolly is clearly the superior option. </p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, this set can function well even when not using Swords Dance. As such, U-turn is an option in the last slot, letting Landorus maintain momentum and rack up damage on the opponent. Substitute is generally a useful move, allowing Landorus to protect itself from status moves, for instance. It's best used with Leftovers though. Rock Polish can be used to fix Landorus's Speed problem; setting up both Swords Dance and Rock Polish is very difficult, but you can choose the right option depending on the situation. Superpower could be used to provide coverage on some Air Balloon users and Bronzong but offers little else. As for items, you could consider one that allows Landorus to bluff the common Scarf set, allowing it to surprise Gliscor, for example. Expert Belt is the obvious choice, as it allows Landorus to OHKO the aforementioned Gliscor. Yache Berry or Passho Berry could allow Landorus to survive an attack it otherwise wouldn't and continue its sweep. </p>

    <p>Once again, including Tyranitar or Hippowdon on the team is almost mandatory for setting up the sand that Landorus loves. Also, given Landorus's ability to weaken or even KO physical walls, you'll want to pair Landorus with more physical sweepers, such as Haxorus, Scizor, Lucario, Breloom, and Terrakion.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are several other tempting sets that Landorus can potentially run, including a couple of other boosting options. Perhaps the most notable of these is Rock Polish. Though Landorus's Speed is already more than decent, it is not quite fast enough for an outright sweep against most teams. After a Rock Polish, Landorus will outrun absolutely everything, but will only really be able to sweep if the opponent's team is heavily weakened. Swords Dance can be run in addition if you wish, letting you choose your boosting move depending on the opponent's team. Bulk Up is also an option, but Landorus will still be vulnerable on the special side, and will still be rather weak.</p>

    <p>Instead of setting up, Landorus can instead simply hit as hard as possible by using a Choice Band set. Unfortunately, Earthquake has poor neutral coverage, and therefore Landorus may simply find itself spamming U-turn, which is still not especially powerful even with the Choice Band boost. The set will still fail to take out many of Landorus's checks, including Gliscor, Skarmory, and Bronzong. Altogether, a Life Orb set (such as the Gravity set) is more effective.</p>

    <p>Landorus can also run a few other moves to get past some of its usual checks. Hidden Power Fire allows physical sets to 2HKO Skarmory on the switch, but Gravity is usually the better choice for this. Hidden Power Flying or Fly can be used to get past Virizion and Breloom, but both have their drawbacks. Hidden Power Flying is boosted by neither of Landorus's abilities, has poor Base Power, and prevents the use of Hidden Power Ice, while Fly is rather exploitable as with all two-turn moves. Lastly, the Special Attacker set can be adapted into a mixed set with Superpower to help beat Chansey and Blissey, but Focus Blast already does good damage to them and the splitting of EVs will leave Landorus somewhat weaker than otherwise.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As with many top OU threats, Landorus doesn't really have any reliable counters. Skarmory and Bronzong can counter most Landorus sets, but will fall to the Gravity set, and are 2HKOed by Focus Blast from the Special Attacker set. Rotom-W is immune to Earthquake, but will be 2HKOed by Life Orb or sand-boosted Stone Edge without considerable defensive investment. Choice Scarf sets can be OHKOed by Focus Blast after Stealth Rock and don't enjoy Stone Edge or U-turn, but can outrun and OHKO Landorus. Gravity Landorus also beats all of the other sets. Breloom and Virizion are the most notable Pokemon to resist Earthquake and Stone Edge, but Earthquake, Psychic, and Hidden Power Ice will still deal enormous damage to them. Virizion can outrun Landorus and OHKO with its own Hidden Power Ice, and isn't OHKOed by Psychic itself, while more defensive Breloom sets can counter the Choice Scarf set. Slowbro can take almost anything from physical Landorus sets but fears a 2HKO from Life Orb sand-boosted Earthquake. Tangrowth can also take Landorus's physical moves, but fears being 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ice, even from the Choice Scarf set. Gliscor is a common switch-in to Scarf Landorus since it takes negligible damage from all but Hidden Power Ice, which doesn't OHKO without some sort of boost.</p>

    <p>Though Landorus is not exactly slow, there are a number of more offensive checks that can outrun it. Notably Latios and Latias can take any move Landorus throws at them, outrun it, and hit back with Draco Meteor or Surf. However, neither will enjoy taking U-turn at all. Gengar can take anything but Stone Edge or Psychic, and can hit back with Shadow Ball.</p>

    <p>Given that Landorus has average defenses, and a Speed stat that is far from unbeatable, it is not especially difficult to revenge kill. Faster Pokemon such as Starmie, Keldeo, and almost every Choice Scarf user can deal with Landorus. Ice Shard users such as Mamoswine and Weavile can take it out with ease, while even a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch will do good damage.</p>
  2. Lucario_Guy

    Lucario_Guy

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    bluemon's Rock Polish SF Landy is pretty baller, I'd recommend it as at least a starting point:
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I don't think that Gravity needs it own set. It can fit in both the Sub set and EB set quite nicely. Imo, ot should be slashed with HP Ice in both sets, since it basically allows Landorus to beat 3 of it's best counters/check, aka Rotom-W, Skarmory and Bronzong (and even Balloon Heatran lol).

    Gravity is also a nice way for Landorus to act as a team player, as with it your entry hazards become much more dangerous, and your other pokes with ground moves, can use them much easier while Gravity is up
  4. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'd have to disagree with putting gravity on the sub set. Gravity needs its coverage, as does substitute. It's the same reason I don't want to have SubSD.

    I can see merging it with EB ... except that the best item on Gravity is Life Orb, and the best item on EB is EB (probably). Gravity wants a whole different type of team built around it too. I suppose you would say it "plays differently."
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah i see your point about the Sub set. But an AC mention wouln't hurt right?

    And i think that the EB and Gravity sets can be merged and called ''all out attacker'' or something with Life Orb and EB slashed together. They don't play that different anyway. Anyone knows that you can put EB to any attacker instead of LO, to lure and bluff choice sets, it doesn't warrant a whole set imo.

    And Gravity doesn't really want a whole team based around it. If you want you could pack a lot of entry hazards and more EQ users to take advantage of Gravty, but Landorus-T is fine with using it for himself only, to get rid of some of his counters/checks. So there is the option to base a team around Gravity, but it isn't a necessity.
  6. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    Expert belt emphasizes bluffing a scarf early so that later in the game when you need it you can get a surprise ko. gravity on the other hand tries forcing something out (preferably to skarmory or rotom) and using gravity the same turn. then landlo can just earthquake whatever it wants. how you see those two sets playing similarily is beyond me and they should be 2 different sets :]

    and gravity landlo isnt for gravity teams, its for teams that want to lure and kill skarm/rotom and last time i checked a lot of teams want that
  7. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    OK I wasn't suggesting using a gravity team because they're awful lol. But still the teammates you would use are different because you would still want them to benefit from gravity.

    Also, you can't use gravity on an all-out attacker because it wouldn't be an all-out attacker lol.
  8. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    The only annoying thing about running Gravity on the Sub set is that Breloom has the potential to check you. Resistant to both EQ and Stone Edge and hurts you behind the Sub with Bullet Seed. I guess that is one reason to have Smack Down instead of Gravity >_>

    Why are the slashes on boosting sweeper so weird?

    Lastly is there any potential for a true mixed set since Sheer Force is available? Life Orb+no recoil would make him a great mixed attacker. The Superpower tutor means he gets a fighting move that doesn't lower his speed and isn't fail blast.
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earth Power
    - Superpower
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rock Slide
  9. Omicron

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    The special set is far better than you give credit for it. I'd suggest making it after the Expert Belt set, which should really be the 2nd set.
  10. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Gravity is exactly as useful against breloom as smack down. It isn't. But it doesn't do any harm either. Also, I highly recommend against sub on it and recommend hp ice to hit Breloom.

    The reason I put EB so far down was the QC was questioning it (according to shrang's list). I would certainly have it above the boosting set myself. Also, I have never seen or used the special set, but I really do not understand its appeal. If someone could explain that would be great.

    edit: ok it was only shrang that was questioning it...

    edit2:

    I've asked a number of people about the special set and the results have been mixed. A large proportion of people, like me, do not understand why on earth you would use such a set. Otherwise, people just seem to keep telling me that special landorus is good, often without detailing the set at all or explaining why on earth I should use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's not going to go into an analysis without some form of evidence that it is good. At the moment I do not have the capacity to test it myself.

    To clarify, if someone could explain (1) exactly what the set is, and (2) why I should use it, then I might be inclined to include it.
  11. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Sorry to double post, but the skeleton is now pretty much complete, and a special set has been added.
  12. Dice

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    Gravity is so gdlk and should be placed higher imo
  13. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

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    I think Choice Band deserves an OO mention.
  14. Trinitrotoluene

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    Explosion warrants an OO mention, since it gives a teammate a free switch-in, all while heavily damaging the opponent.
  15. ace combat

    ace combat

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    Special Landorus-I is really a better lure than anything. It is important to say though that the best set up move that he can use is Rock Polish so that the he can outspeed things. Agreeing with Omicrom that it is far better than you make it seem and its set should be this:

    Landorus-I @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Timid/Modest Nature
    4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Rock Polish
    -Earth Power
    -Focus Blast
    -Psychic / Hidden Power Ice

    Not only he is a good Pokemon in his own right but they are usually going to switch in a Physically defensive Pokemon first allowing you to weaken their main physical wall, which is going to make is much easier for you to take out their team with you physical sweeper now that their physical wall is weakened. The Psychic variants do not worry about Gliscor too much since Psychic is still a 2HKO, as well as putting a large dent into pokemon such a Virizon. He really does not have as much problems with revenge killers as Physical Landorus because of Rock Polish. Prediction is very important to this set but if you predict well (Even if Special Landorus cannot sweep your opponents team) he can greatly weaken your opponent, causing them to second guess. He not only preforms the function of the Sub set and Expert Belt set (lure out usual counters for your team), but he is also a hard hitting unique special attacker.

    The other problem that I have is the placement of the Swords Dance set. Honestly most people do not think that Landorus even needs a Gravity set because it mimics the Substitute and the Expert Belt sets (Lure out and kill its usual counters). Since Swords Dance does not mimic any other set I think that it definitely should go above the Gravity set.
  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    This is not really true. Gravity Landorus doesn't really "lure" very well, since the moment it uses Gravity (which you should be using on the switch), Skarmory is switching the fuck out again. What Gravity has over the Substitute / Expert Belt sets, is that it actaully beats its counters in Skarmory and Bronzong and Rotom W to an extent. Expert Belt and Substitute don't really do this well (and both sets are walled by Skarmory).

    I personally would put it above Substitute, but thats just a personal thing. Its very good however, and I don't think putting Swords Dance above it is a good idea.
  17. Omicron

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    The Special set should have Rock Polish slashed somewhere. Rock Polish / EP / Psychic / HP Ice is what I've been using. Focus Blast is nice for Skarm and friends, but HP Ice and Rock Polish have more utility. Calm Mind is AC material because Landorus is so slow, not to mention it immediately gives away that you are a special set.
  18. Dice

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    Gravity is not a lure, its a way for land to attempt to sweep by grounding everything. Its like trick room reuniclus where building a whole team around it isn't recommended but having a partner in crime to abuse gravity is cool like a fellow earth quake user or conkeldurr in fetuses case
  19. Iconic

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    just to preface i haven't played a single bw2 game but i have a huge landorus fetish so may as well give some input XD

    i think naughty (i like -spdef because one of the most common 'survivable' attacks landorus tends to take is bullet punch, and also since landorus is often a terrakion switch for offensive teams) is good enough for a slash on the scarf set, because +speed is far less crucial than it is on non-scarf landorus. if your team deals well enough with +1 timid volcarona and jolly scarf jirachi then adamant is a great option to hit annoying rotom-w harder with u-turn / stone edge and of course hit noticeably harder with earthquake. scarf salamence are generally adamant and you still outspeed timid scarf rotom-w by a couple of points, so you don't lose out on anything there. i guess you get screwed over if you play something weird like timid scarf hydreigon but i can't really say +atk scarf landorus has ever costed me, while the increase in power is really helpful

    expert belt landorus needs 28 spatk evs to guarantee the ohko on gliscor with hp ice. 0 spatk does a minimum of 98%, and while i sincerely doubt anyone will ever miss out on the KO, it definitely doesn't hurt to be safe

    i've tested fly on landorus (grrr why can't you get aerial ace...) and i must say it's a fairly useful option for a breloom or virizion weak team, even on the scarf set. it also hits extremely hard. i think fly can maybe get an other options mention, but i'd heavily support a brief mention of hidden power flying on the scarf and expert belt sets due to its superior reliability. i've used hp flying over hp ice extensively and having something to deal with breloom is an absolute godsend, considering breloom is arguably one of the top 5 pokemon you go "f_K" when you face off against. makes an excellent bulk up breloom counter, and i can only assume it'd be even better against swords dance techniloom thanks to landorus's awesome typing

    sry for rambling, just some things to consider i guess . . .
  20. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Thanks for the input everyone.

    I think we should be wary of using anything but a +Speed nature on physical Landorus-I, because that moves it solidly into Landorus-Ts territory. Nonetheless I'll AC it with a warning. I think I'll slash modest on special too just because Landorus-T can't do that.

    And OK i'll add 28 SpA, and mention fly/hp flying where I think it's appropriate.
  21. Cherub Agent

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    Why did you remove Choice Band though? It's incredibly powerful, and sinc eLandorus already sits in a very good Speed tier it can afford to just go smashing everything with Sand boosted moves. He does face competition from LT, due to all the Rain around, but I think the increased Speed and ability to do far more damage in Sand make it a worthwile option.
  22. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I just think that Ground is not a very good STAB attacking type to use with CB. There are too many immune pokemon that are just going to switch in over and over again. To use CB effectively you need to have a STAB with good neutral coverage, IMO. If you just end up U-turning all the time, you may as well use scarf or the more powerful and bulkier Landorus-t, which, by the way, is apparently not getting a band set either.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    The special set should definitely be replaced by the Rock Polish set... You said that even special Landorus isn't getting past Skarmory, while it definitely can. Modest FB vs Skarmory: 72.75 - 85.62%. So Skarmory either dies, or is left with no life at all to take on your physical sweeper.
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    The special set in the second post of this thread can't get past Skarm. Other sets are relying on a 2HKO from Focus Blast I think, which is less than a 50% chance. I said that it wasn't going to "breeze" past skarm, which it doesn't. It'll beat skarm if you're a bit lucky.

    None of that explains why I should use Rock Polish. I really want all 4 moves for coverage (and I'm very happy to remove calm mind entirely if need be). Speaking to some QCers, they didn't want physical rock polish. Why should we have special rock polish then?
  25. Jukain

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    I guess to start, RP prevents Keldeo from ruining its fun, and special can actually touch it.

    EDIT: complaints about the blobs deterring the special set can be dealt with by Superpower

    and IMO the set should look like:
    move1: Rock Polish / Focus Blast
    move2: Earth Power
    move3: Psychic
    move4: Hidden Power Ice / Superpower

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