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Landorus-T (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    [Overview]

    <p>As is befitting of its ability, Landorus-T is a Pokemon that is somewhat more intimidating than dangerous. When it was first announced, its massive 145 base Attack struck fear into the hearts of players everywhere, but in practice, it's not the harbinger of doom that everyone expected. Between a reduced 91 base Speed and the loss of Sand Force, Landorus-T is less offensive than its genie counterpart despite the former's higher Attack.</p>

    <p>That said, it's not like Landorus-T is ineffectual in the metagame. Its solid 89 / 90 / 80 defenses are enhanced further by Intimidate, making it one of the few Pokemon capable of confronting Terrakion head-on, and it still has access to Swords Dance and Rock Polish to present a credible physical threat. On top of that, its massive Attack means that Landorus-T doesn't need much investment to pack a punch. Altogether, while it's not the offensive behemoth that was expected, it's still a solid Pokemon that has earned a well-deserved spot in the OU metagame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Pivot
    move 1: Stealth Rock / Gravity
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Admittedly, 145 base Attack doesn't scream for tons of defensive investment, but Landorus-T has all the tools it needs to play the role of offensive pivot and steal momentum away from opposing teams. Its solid bulk and Intimidate let it stop many offensive threats cold, including Terrakion, a Pokemon with few real offensive answers. It's also a stellar user of Stealth Rock, as Landorus-T's bulk lets it easily lay down Stealth Rock, and its power makes it hard to Taunt against. U-turn is stellar for stealing momentum away from opponents, and Earthquake and Stone Edge combine to give solid offensive coverage as well as protection against some top threats, such as Terrakion and Dragonite.</p>

    <p>Since Landorus-T's base attack is so high, it can spend most of its EVs on defense. 200 HP / 244 Defense allows Landorus-T to sponge two Choice Band Stone Edges from Terrakion, and also avoids the OHKO from its +2 Rock Gem Stone Edge, something few Pokemon can boast. The remaining EVs and Adamant Nature give a high chance of OHKOing 4/0 Dragonite with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, and also give Landorus-T a legitimate offensive presence on the team. To give an idea of how much offense this Landorus-T packs, even with only 64 EVs and a beneficial nature, Landorus-T has 376 Attack, giving it power rivaling a fully invested Landorus or Gyarados.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Ice is an option over Stone Edge for warding off Gliscor, Tangrowth, and other Landorus, but Stone Edge is stronger for general use, and wallbreaking isn't this Landorus-T's specialty. If you already have a Stealth Rock user on your team and you're so inclined, Landorus-T is a great user of Gravity, since it can make use of Gravity Earthquake itself, as well as U-turn to other teammates who benefit from Gravity.. While Speed is advised against on this set, there are faster options. 104 EVs outspeed maximum Speed Tyranitar, while 144 EVs outspeed neutral-natured Heatran. However, taking EVs out of Attack hurts Landorus-T's offensive potential, while removing them from Defense and HP defeats the purpose of using a bulky spread.</p>

    <p>This Landorus-T is a star on bulky offense, since it's a Stealth Rock user that most Magic Bounce users would never dream of switching into. As a result, it works best with offensive teammates, especially ones that profit well from offensive momentum. It's great for starting Volt-Turn, making it a great teammate for Rotom-W, which also provides Water and Ice resistances. Hydreigon is also a solid teammate for this reason, though a shared Ice weakness can be an issue. Since this Landorus-T lacks recovery, Wish support is highly suggested. Jirachi is one of the best teammates, since Landorus-T is immune to Ground, resistant to Fighting, and neutral to Fire. Vaporeon is also an excellent option, since it provides Water and Ice resistances, while Landorus-T is immune to Electric and neutral to Grass. Finally, Landorus-T's ability to force switches means that it makes great use of entry hazards. Deoxys-D is a great hazard-setting Pokemon for offensive teams, and with Landorus-T providing Stealth Rock, Deoxys-D gets a free moveslot to use Thunder Wave or other useful moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>91 base Speed is plenty to warrant a Choice Scarf set, especially considering that unlike its Incarnate version, Landorus-T doesn't have to rely on weather for its damage output. Earthquake is basic STAB, though it's iffy on a Choice set due to its relatively common immunities. U-turn is also a given, as it's excellent for keeping momentum after Landorus-T forces a switch. Stone Edge provides solid neutral coverage, while Superpower is the best option against Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Bronzong. It also hits Balloon Heatran, which is useful. On the other hand, Hidden Power Ice pounds Dragon-types, wards off Gliscor and opposing Landorus of all stripes, and can break down Tangrowth. Remember to use the right nature- Jolly for Superpower and Naive for Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    <p>When using Landorus-T as a Choice Scarf user, it's important to make sure that it's the build for the position. While Landorus-T provides Intimidate and is weather-independent, Landorus packs way more of a punch on sandstorm teams due to Sand Force, and its 101 base Speed sits in an important Speed tier, outspeeding +1 Salamence, +1 Volcarona, and opposing Choice Scarf users, especially Jirachi. The two are very similar, so make sure to pick the right Landorus for the job.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Punishment is cute against some boosting Pokemon, and can be especially good against opponents such as Sigilyph and Calm Mind Latias, who become incredibly dangerous after a couple of boosts and need overwhelming power to take down. Explosion is an option, as it provides solid neutral coverage and plenty of punch as a last-ditch attack. EVs are very basic: Attack is maximized to provide maximum offensive power, and 224 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature give Landorus-T enough Speed to outspeed +1 neutral-natured base 100s. The rest goes into HP to give Landorus-T a little more bulk.</p>

    <p>As with any Landorus-T set, this works best on bulky offense. Intimidate and good resistances give it plenty of chances to switch in, and as primarily a speedy hit-and-run Pokemon, it doesn't take a lot of support to make it effective. That said, Stealth Rock is always an issue, as it makes it harder for Landorus-T to switch in repeatedly. Starmie is the best spinner for the slot, as it provides crucial resistances to Water and Ice, and Landorus-T can switch into Electric attacks, especially Thunder, and come out unscathed. Wish support from Jirachi is also nice, as it helps Landorus-T leverage its bulk and ability to switch in.</p>

    <<<CHOICE BAND GOES HERE, WHERE YOU AT LAVOS SPAWN>>>

    [SET]
    name: Gravity
    move 1: Gravity
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>An unorthodox setup set, Gravity wrecks a lot of top Landorus-T counters. Without their Ground immunities, Pokemon such as Skarmory, Bronzong, Gliscor, and Balloon carriers lose the ability to switch into Landorus-T with impunity. On top of that, Stone Edge is 100% accurate in Gravity, temporarily making it not the worst move in the game. Finally, Hidden Power Ice blows up the few defensive Pokemon not crippled by Gravity, such as exceptionally bulky Gliscor, Tangrowth, and some other Grass-types. Alternatively, U-turn can be used to hit Grass-types and pass Gravity to other abusers on the team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Spikes provide double duty here, as not only does Landorus-T greatly appreciate the chip damage, but Gravity renders many normally unaffected fliers and levitators vulnerable to them. Deoxys-D is the best offensive Spikes user, and can also spread paralysis to slow things down for the relatively slow Landorus-T. Ferrothorn provides a longer-lasting presence, can also spread Thunder Wave, and resists Water for Landorus-T. As icing, Ferrothorn gains 100% accurate Power Whip and Leech Seed, two moves it relies on to be effective.</p>

    <p>Special mention here goes to teammates that can effectively make use of Gravity. Starmie comes to mind, as it can use Hydro Pump and Thunder with 100% accuracy without requiring Rain for the latter, and Starmie brings with it useful resistances. Mamoswine doubles up on the Ground-type threat, which is both a blessing and a curse due to shared weaknesses. Still, if Landorus-T can break through Ground resistances, Mamoswine can be a real terror. Between Earthquake with no immunities and 100% accurate Icicle Crash and Stone Edge, Mamoswine is a far more reliable offensive threat with Gravity in effect.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Explosion
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naughty / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Landorus-T's Speed isn't as solid as its Incarnate counterpart's is, it has access to Rock Polish to mitigate it. As a Pokemon with extreme Attack and decent Speed, Speed boosts are far more important than Attack boosts for a successful sweep. Intimidate helps significantly compared to Landorus, as it's much easier for Landorus-T to switch in and pick up quick boosts. EdgeQuake provides basic two-move coverage, while Hidden Power Ice eliminates Dragon-types, opposing Gliscor, Tangrowth, and Landorus. Despite having less Special Attack than Landorus, its 105 Special Attack is still plenty to do the job. Alternatively, 145 base Attack makes Explosion an effective last-ditch effort against non-resistant opponents. Even without the defense cut, it's still 66% stronger than STAB Earthquake, and also is guaranteed to get the next Pokemon in safely.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Landorus-T can use Swords Dance in the last slot to pull off a "double dance" set, but unlike other notable double dancers, it's missing some of the things that make them shine. Notably, effective double dancers have usable secondary STABs and enough Speed to go without a Speed boost against bulkier offensive teams, neither of which Landorus-T has at its disposal.</p>

    <p>Entry hazards are especially important for this set, as it is extremely reliant on them to achieve OHKOs on some bulkier Pokemon. Deoxys-D is an easy way to get hazards up, but Ferrothorn and Forretress are more effective in the long haul if the opponent has a spinner. Beyond hazards, this set needs strong attackers that can lure out the set's main counters. Choice Band Terrakion is an excellent choice, as it packs a huge punch and can break down physical walls for this set to bust through. Other usable allies include Acrobatics Gliscor and Ice Punch Lucario, both of which can whittle down bulkier Pokemon that would stand in the way of a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Swords Dance
    item: Leftovers / Expert Belt
    nature: Naive / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Pokemon like Landorus-T is incredibly effective when it doesn't have to predict against opponents, and the best way to ease prediction is Substitute. Luckily, Intimidate is perfect for picking up free Substitutes as it scares out opposing Pokemon that are unable to deal with Landorus-T. Once that Substitute is up, Landorus-T is extremely threatening, as it can OHKO / 2HKO most of the metagame with ease, and most of the things it 2HKOs are slower. Between Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Hidden Power Ice, it's got coverage against nearly the entire metagame, making it hard to switch into and incredibly safe against setup Pokemon. Alternately, Swords Dance is an option, allowing Landorus-T to pick up a quick boost against slower teams or take advantage of forced switches.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item selection here is pretty straightforward. Leftovers lets Landorus-T put up more Substitutes, which makes it more effective in the long run, and also makes it easier for Landorus-T to switch into resisted attacks and still set up its Substitute. However, it's easy for Landorus-T to land super effective attacks, and when it does, Expert Belt will make them that much effective, and 20% can be the difference between life and death for some bulky Pokemon. Expert Belt also has the distinction of bluffing a Choice Scarf set if you can get it in against a slower Pokemon, catching the opponent off guard with Substitute at an important moment.</p>

    <p>While this Pokemon is less likely to straight sweep a team, it's perfectly suited to open up holes for other team members. With a Pokemon as powerful as Landorus-T, it often takes a sacrifice to break its Substitute, and this can open the way for another powerful physical sweeper to dominate. Pokemon such as Double Dance or SubSD Terrakion, as well as Dragon Dance variants of Salamence and Dragonite can run rampant after Landorus-T does its job.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Landorus-T has some options that seem decent at first glance, but have some notable issues. Bulk Up provides a more balanced approach to a boosting set, but is much more at home on Landorus, which can use its higher speed to secure more Bulk Ups as well as being a more potent threat after boosting. Swords Dance is in the same boat, with its potency being very Speed-dependent. RestTalk has been a classic combination on Pokemon like Landorus-T, most notably Gyarados, but the changed sleep mechanics in Generation 5 have made it largely ineffectual. Rock Tomb is an option on some sets to make up for the lack of Speed, but its low Base Power makes it extremely inappealing.</p>

    <p>An offensive EV spread can be used on the Offensive Pivot set for a more offensive Stealth Rock user similar to how Terrakion is often used. However, Terrakion is a more potent user of this type of set due to its superior speed, since it is more than capable of being an offensive threat without boosting moves or items due to its impeccable two-move coverage. Landorus-T's middling Speed makes it a bit more dependent on specialized spreads, Choice items, and setup moves to do its damage, and there's simply no room for Stealth Rock on an offensive set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Given that Landorus is effectively the same Pokemon, it should come as no surprise that the same Pokemon largely answer them both. However, like Landorus, there's really no such thing as a "hard counter" to it. Skarmory comes closest, as most Landorus-T sets will be entirely unable to break through it, but Gravity turns that matchup on its head. Virizion can easily sponge Hidden Power Ice, but its mediocre physical defense means that it can't switch into too many Earthquakes throughout the match. Bulky variants of Latias can easily take a Stone Edge and recover off the damage, but U-turn is still unfriendly, as whatever follows Landorus-T is likely to force Latias out and prevent it from Recovering. Gliscor fears nothing except Hidden Power Ice, but is deathly afraid of said move, so make sure to scout out the set before sending Gliscor in headlong. Slowbro is probably the best counter, as it can take anything Landorus-T throws at it and recover it off passively with Regenerator. However, watch out for U-turn, especially if paired with a Pursuit user to eliminate Slowbro on the way out.</p>

    <p>Landorus-T's Speed tier renders it much easier to confront offensively than its alternate form. Notably, Salamence outspeeds it and packs an Earthquake immunity, though Stone Edge and Hidden Power Ice do a number on it. Jirachi can be hard to switch in, but it can eliminate it with Ice Punch or play flinch games in a pinch. Faster variants of Celebi often carry Hidden Power Ice, which also deals with Landorus-T with ease. Last, but certainly not least, Mamoswine can use Ice Shard to bypass Landorus-T's Speed advantage and take it out. It can also Icicle Crash against bulkier sets, which Landorus-T is unlikely to survive.</p>
  2. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Fail.

    How can you call that an offensive pivot with a spread like that ? This Landorus-T isn't an offensive pivot at all, it's a... hmm a defensive pivot but not an offensive pivot. You have no investment in Speed so how can you call it an offensive pivot ? No, there is definitely something wrong with this set. The name and the spread.
    Why Swords Dance ? Tell me why ? It's absolutely useless on this Set, especially with a Spread like this one. You are easily revenge killable, that's useless.
    This Set is definitely not the main one on Landorus. It's an interesting Set but not the main. Knock Off is probably the best move over Stealth Rock instead of Swords Dance. Protect is also an interesting option since you can see what your opponent will use if it's a choice-user.


    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Enough question marks ? Hey, why Superpower lol ? It is absolutely USELESS on it, seriously why you want to use it ? What do you want to hit / revenge kill with Superpower ? Absolutely nothing. Hidden Power Ice FOR SURE so that means change your Evs spread : 32 SAtk / 252 Atk / 224 Speed.


    Now let's talk about the Sets I suggested. An Offensive Lead can be really interesting since it has both Explosion and Stealth Rock. Even though this is not the faster Lead of the game, it is still quite fast and pretty strong. With Explosion and the Life Orb, be sure to kill at least one Pokémon. Something like that :

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    Let's talk now about its main Set, the Expert Belt / Life Orb Set. This was Landorus' best Set and most used Set. What is the difference between Landorus and Landorus-T ? Intimidate and better Attack for less good Speed (-10 in Speed) and a better Defense iirc. Anyway, with the +20 in Attack, you dont need Sand Force to be at least as strong as Landorus. This thing probably 2HKO 90% of the Metagame with the Life Orb iteam (especially with Stealth Rock up). Ok you're less fast, but that doesn't mean you can't sweep your opponent. What about Lucario or CBDragonite ? I mean, Landorus-T still reachs 309 in Speed with a Naive Nature and 252 in Speed so that doesn't really bad. Ok, you're less fast than Volcarona timid ful... oh wait. You're less fast than Ninetales timid full spe... oh wait. Terrakion still outspeeds you, same for Virizion, same for Infernape. You still outspeed Adamant Salamence... it's always used in Scarf. But I do agree that Landorus-T is less fast than Hydreigon, Haxorus, Gliscor Full Speed Jolly, etc. But to be honest, that's not a reason to forget how strong it can be as a LO Sweeper. Something like that :

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Sweeper / Expert Belt
    move 1: U-Turn
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Smack Down / Stone Edge / Explosion (if using Life Orb)
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    A few calcs : 252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Slowbro (+Def) : 39,59% - 46,7% (3 hits to KO)

    With Stealth Rock up and probably the Sandstorm, you can imagine how strong Landorus-T is.

    252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs 252 HP/252 Def Slowbro (+Def) : 65,74% - 77,41% (2 hits to KO)

    Easy ?

    252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs 252 HP/252 Def Mew (+Def) : 68,56% - 80,69% (2 hits to KO)

    Easy ?

    252 Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Mew (+Def) : 41,09% - 48,51% (3 hits to KO)

    2HKO with Stealth Rock up.


    I think you understand now ?
  3. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Agreeing with Ojama on the first set. That Landorus is most definitely a defensive pivot Pokemon. I would mention that that specific Landorus-T is viable on stall as a bulky physical wall and a SR mon. It's also a nice switch in for Scizor, since Intimidate makes its moves do jack. If you are using this set as a defensive pivot, mention how it really would appreciate Wish support, since it has no real method of recovery (just noticed you did already, cool).

    I would remove all mentions of Swords Dance. Landorus was able to do it since it could outspeed stuff even with base 101 speed. Base 91 is way too slow, and you're almost always better off just hitting something with a move than setting up a Swords Dance.

    As Ojama said. Superpower is really redundant coverage (unless you want to hit Ferrothorn). HP Ice is the much better option, as it let's you hit Gliscor, who although is rare, is still nicer to have.

    Also, Gravity doesn't seem like it deserves its own set, especially when the metagame is completely dominated by Rain Offense, and once again, base 91 speed doesn't work with Gravity. Gravity should probably go in OO, unless there are legitimate logs where it works.

    Last comment, your mentioning Pokemon that commonly existed in BW1, but are extremely rare in the BW2 metagame (Acro Gliscor, for example, and even Tangrowth is rare now that Ammonguss is out). Just something to keep in mind.

    Edit: oh, and Ojama's set is good. It's a good wall breaker, since it has freakishly high attack. Perhaps Magnezone as a partner for that set to remove some annoying Pokemon? (Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forry). Just a thought.
  4. Doughboy

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    Here is the Substitute Set I would like to see and have been using.

    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 72 HP / 248 Atk / 188 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)

    Same moves and everything a +atk nature and a little amount of HP EV's thrown in. Substitute bypasses some speed issues and I wanted to squeeze the most power out of Landorus. 72 HP EV's go a long way to set up Substitutes against weaker attacks. What 72 HP EV's specifically aim to do is make sure you can always create a Substitute against -1 Scarf Terrakion's CC. EV's hit 264 speed, enough to outspeed +spe Politoed, +spe Breloom (important because of bullet seed), and some Ninetales. Another cool target is setting up Substitutes against -1 Forretress using Gyro Ball. You could actually dump those 72 HP EV's into defense since you are using the physical spectrum to set up Substitute against.
  5. Lucario_Guy

    Lucario_Guy

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    Minor nitpick: There are 4 too many EVs listed in the alternative spread in AC for Offensive Pivot.


    Also, Ojama, is English not your first language, or are you really so flustered that your posts look like 12-year-old girls from FaceBook wrote them? I'm honestly having a difficult time taking any of your recent posts seriously, 'specially with the excessive/awkward punctuation and lack of strong sentence structure. Just curious. (Please nobody kill me.)
  6. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I like specialized sets and all, but I am seriously wondering what is up with the first Landorus spread. First off it doesn't avoid a 1HKO at all:

    (86.41 - 102.17%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    I think a full on defensive spread is in order, or a simple 252 HP spread:

    252 HP:
    (87.95 - 103.66%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
    Full defensive (160 HP / 252 Def):
    (85.79 - 101.39%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (85.79 - 101.39%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    The difference is either taking weak special attacks slightly better vs a ice 6% more chance of taking the attack with rocks up. You decide, but I don't know what the idea of the current listed spread is.
  7. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Im french, english isn't my first language lol.
  8. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    it's semantics but i weep for this metagame if something with 385 freaking attack cannot be considered 'offensive.'
  9. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    I was talking about the Spread. With this Set and this Spread, Landorus-T cannot be considered as an offensive pivot. In addition, an offensive pivot, since you want to talk about it, needs a good speed but as you can see it, there is no investment in speed.
    You're talking about something with 385 attack... Landorus-T doesnt have 385 attack with this Spread. I said it, there is something wrong with this Set : the name and spread.
    Also, I'm talking about the fact its called "offensive pivot". I'm not saying Landorus isn't offensive, this is exactly what I'm trying to explain since the beginning Lee. Landorus-T is a strong sweeper, one of the most powerfull and its main set is the Life Orb one and not this defensive set.
  10. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    yes it does
  11. iDunno

    iDunno

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    You might have forgotten to change the nature to adamant...


    Also you should probably test sets before going apeshit over them.
  12. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    I didn't say Landorus wasn't good as a defensive pivot (or as a bulky pokemon call it however you want). I just said that this Set isn't Landorus-T's main set, thats all. In addition, the Spread is wrong, you obviously need more Speed cause without any investment, it only has 218. An offensive pivot needs Speed and with intimidate, the mixed sweeper is an offensive pivot.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Hmm ok.

    I think you could stand to be a little bit more constructive with your posts Ojama. Starting a sentence with "fail" doesn't really get your point across and you're being a little condescending when you post statements like

    I genuinely want this thread to go smoothly and its great that you're contributing more, but there's no need to be antagonistic towards SDS. There's a rift between us that shouldn't exist. We're discussing the sets you posted as we speak, so there's no need to worry that your thoughts aren't being heard.
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    I am not sure where you are going with this. Are you saying that because Rain offence is so common that it cannot get a free turn to set up or what? I tested the set and yes, I ran into Rain but the set itself worked great. Gravity lets Landorus-T bypass typical counters / checks such as Skamory, Bronzong, and Rotom W, and it pretty much 100% outclasses Smack Down. I'd post logs, however for some reason Showdown doesn't save them (at least to my knowledge) which is v. annoying. but w/e.

    ALso agreeing with Ojama that I personally prefer HP Ice over Superpower in slash order on the scarf set. I get that hitting Skarm, Zong, Balloon Tran are all pretty awesome, but I just think I would use HP Ice more often for insurance against Dragons and stuff.
  15. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    In my experience, Bronzong is basically non-existant now. Skarm is nice for Gravity though. And Rotom you still need to be wary if it's choiced, though I guess you can tell if you have SR on the field.

    If it works, then great. I've mainly seen Gravity as a gimmick though, which is why I had/have my initial doubts. I wasn't trying to bash it or anything, just throwing in my two cents ^_^
  16. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Field effects that aren't rain, sand, or sun (barely) are pretty much gimmicks, so gravity ... Idk.
  17. Griff

    Griff

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    I faced Ginganinga on the ladder and I lost to his/her gravity team. It was really unexpected and worked well. The reason I like it better than Smack Down is because they can just switch out of smackdown. Gravity stays there.
  18. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    After testing, I can definitely say that I *love* the defensive set. It is incredible, doing stuff like shrugging off +2 Dragonite Dragon Claw and switching into a SD Scizor to 2HKO it and take only 35% from +1 Bullet Punch (both of which won me the game). Even without full investment it hits ludicrously hard, and it's pretty much the best thing ever.

    Also Smack Down was 3 times the gimmick Gravity is, and it somehow made it onto a Landorus set last generation. Gravity completely owns, and basically does what Smack Down did but to every Pokemon that switches in for 5 turns, PLUS makes Spikes and Toxic Spikes more effective.
  19. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    I will try a better spread because yours isn't the best for the defensive set. You definitely need speed, at least enough to outspeed Pokémons with 250 speed. In my opinion, the best would be 265 so you can outspeed Tentacruel, Dragonite and Gyarados (all adamant).

    Tested the Offensive Lead and the LO set : awesome.
  20. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Defensive set is the only one I've used, but the max amount of Speed I've gone with it is 104 EVs (244 Speed) which gets it in front of all non-Scarf Ttar, Adamant Breloom, non-Scarf Magnezone and others that hang around 243 Speed and below. Going much farther than that and you're just better off going for an all out offensive lead set. Even a variant with 104 Speed EVs has noticeably lower bulk and that's what the defensive set prides itself on; being able to switch in on and either beat most physical attackers without a super effective move or allowing a teammate to more comfortably counter the threat trying to sweep your team.
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Doubles Co-Lead

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    200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def; Adamant Nature for the first set. Here are some calcs:

    Landorus-T's EQ vs Scizor (max HP): 49-58% (87% chance to 2HKO)
    Landorus-T's SE vs Dragonite (4 Def): 73-87% (87% chance to 2HKO after SR)
    CB Terrakion's SE vs Landorus-T: 37-44% (Guarantee Survival of 2 SE after SR)
    +2 Terrakion's Rock Gem SE: 84-99% (62.5% survival after SR)

    I would remove the mention of Dragonite when talking about HP Ice on the Pivot's set, since it actually does less damage than Stone Edge (so it does not kill after SR most of the time). It's still useful against Gliscor / Landorus / Tangrowth, though.

    The AC spread on the Pivot set is a little odd - why the Speed EVs (it reaches 242 to outrun Adamant max Spe Scizor / Magnezone?) Mine as well give it enough Speed to outrun TTar, Gliscor, Jirachi, Tentacruel, Celebi, and Heatran with 254 Speed :0.

    For the Scarf set, you mentioned Punishment. You could add that it's also good to punish CM Latias.

    Rock Polish set should have Naive / Adamant Nature, since it outspeeds everything at +2 anyways, and it would certainly want the extra power to hit hard once it have the Speed boost.

    I think the Gravity set should be above Rock Polish set.

    I'd give Leftovers the primary slash over Expert Belt on the Sub set. It's using Substitute after all :0
  22. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    I like all these changes. Will make final edits tomorrow, barring further discussion.
  23. EonX

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    Not sure how useful this would be, but just going to throw this out there. Could Landorus-T have the option to drop to 180 Spe EVs on the Rock Polish set? The 180 Spe EVs with a neutral nature is enough to outspeed Scarf Latios after the boost and the extra EVs could be put in HP to help add to the bulk Landorus-T has. I know that the max Speed on the main spread is to outrun positive (or neutral, depending on nature choice) base 90s, but I would think the 180 Spe EVs to outspeed Scarf Latios is worthy of a mention. (the spread would be 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe, Naughty / Adamant)
  24. Complications

    Complications

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    Now this may just be me but wouldn't Vaporeon make a better wish passer to partner with Landorus-T? Here's my reasons:

    1. It has high special bulk, which has nice synergy with this Seth's physical bulk
    2. It's higher HP allows it to pass better wishes
    3. It is immune to water type attacks that would harass Landorus-T, along with resisting Ice type attacks that more often than not come from special attackers in the form of Ice Beam
    4. A burn from Scald makes playing Landorus that much more easy
    5. Landorus boasts an immunity towards Electric type attacks and a neutrality to grass type attacks, which are fairly rare in the OU tier.
  25. XxpokemonmasterXx

    XxpokemonmasterXx

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    I would remove Explosion. It is a completely worthless move this gen and it will get almost no use.

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