1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Landorus-T (WIP)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Chillarmy, Jul 8, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    jajajajaja will have this skeleton finished in a bit

    [​IMG]

    Meow~

    [Overview]

    • Kitty go "rawr!", scary scary
    • Landorus's Therian ('second') forme, to those who are still unfamiliar with BW2; different ability and stat distribution
    • No Sand Force or base 101 Speed, but Intimidate + base 145 Attack more than makes up for that
    • One of the best pivots in OU
    • Syncs pretty well with both defensive and offensive teams
    • The speed drop is painfully noticeable at times with or without a Choice Scarf
    • Overall a really good Pokemon
    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Stone Edge / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Despite primarily being an offensive powerhouse, Landorus-T can perform the task of a defensive pivot nicely
    • Lando-T forces switches very easily, giving it ample time to set SR up
    • Rock Slide is still a tad bit too weak to be used here, but this Landorus-T can most certainly afford to miss a Stone Edge
    • Knock Off is really cool
    • Skarm and Forry lose their Shed Shell upon switching in; lots of offensive pokes, particularly Tornadus-T (those ballsy enough to risk getting slammed by a Stone Edge), Techiloom, Latios, Rotom-W and AcroBat Gliscor can potentially become much less threatening
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]​

    • Hidden Power Ice can be used for the purpose of checking Dragonite, Landorus-T/-I and / or preventing Gliscor from switching in endlessly; just be sure to only lower Lando-T's Speed IV to 30
    • 384 Attack is needed to KO 4/0 Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage
    • Landorus-T needs max HP and 255 Defense, or something similar, to always survive two of Choice Band Terrakion's Stone Edges, after SR damage and Leftovers; this can be done most efficiently with an Adamant nature and 156 Defense EVs
    • Impish with a spread of 252 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe can be used to better sponge hits from many of the physical attackers in OU
    • EVs bring Lando-T up to 241 Speed, just topping Adamant max Speed Breloom, all non-choiced Abomasnow, Adamant Scizor, and many others; the rest goes into Defense
    (Right, so I've tested this spread into the ground. I tried using other spreads, such as the ones that hit very specific defensive benchmarks (e.g, never being 2HKOed by -1 CB Terrak's Stone Edge), Jolly with max Speed, and tankish spreads, but they lacked the reliability of an outright defensive spread. However, if anyone would like to suggest anything more efficacious, then I'm all ears)

    • Much unlike other Stealth Rock users, Landorus-T strikes fear into the hearts of Xatu and Espeon, giving it a comfortable spot on bulky offense teams
    • Therefore, Pokemon such as physically bulky Calm Mind Latias, bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite, Bulk Up Scrafty, and Conkeldurr would work as fine offensive teammates
    • Ironically, Xatu works very well alongside this set, preventing Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Breloom and Amoonguss from taking advantage of Landorus-T's weaker offenses (keep in mind that 327 Attack is still nothing to scoff at)
    • However, due to to this set's ability to keep numerous physically-based threats at bay and force many switches, it can function on more conservative teams as well
    • Wish support would be magnificent -- and Landorus has very good synergy with most Wish users
    • As with most of Lando-T's sets, extra entry hazards are most certainly welcome and greatly appreciated
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Works as a great Choice Scarf user, even with the speed drop
    • Intimidate + 145 base attack + 451 Speed usually scares away OU's top threats, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Lucario, Thundurus- and Tornadus-T, therefore making U-turn really useful on this set
    • Superpower hits stuff immune to Earthquake (most Air Balloon users, Bronzong, etc)
    • HP Ice offers more consistent coverage on Dragonite, and smashes Gliscor / opposing Landorus
    • Landorus-T is not an overall superior Choice Scarfer than Landorus-I -- keep this well in mind
    • Lando-I can revenge kill Volacrona, Salamence, Haxorus, Choice Scarf Thundurus, etc, but lacks the safety of Intimidate, and needs Sand Force activated to compete with Lando-T's power
    (SF Lando-I actually surpasses Lando-T in power, bar U-turn of course; I'll be sure to word this a lot better in the write-up)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Punishment can mutilate most CM users
    • Explosion for free switch-ins / suicidal extra damage
    • Rock Slide is pretty tempting, but don't use it, as the power drop from Stone Edge is VERY noticeable
    • Gravity and Stealth Rock are available as support options which can snugly fit into the fourth slot, but both really suck to be locked into
    • Works well with teams that break under simple, but very potent offensive pressure (e.g, Drag + Mag; CB Terrak + [Fighting-type])
    • Non-sand teams greatly appreciate not having to rely on Sand Force for that extra bit of power
    • This Landorus-T would love to have entry hazards on the opposing side of the field, as well as Stealth Rock being spun away, making Forrertess a pretty good partner
    • Bonus: Forretress can form a Volt-Turn core with Landorus-T
    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Explosion
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Who needs Sand Force?
    • Rock Polish takes advantage of Lando-T's very high base Attack and ability to perform well offensively outside of sand teams
    • Force switches with Intimidate -> boost
    • HP Ice prevents Gliscor from completely walling this set
    • Explosion works as a last-ditch effort, and is very powerful coming from Lando-T
    • 289 HP is a Life Orb number
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Double Dance could work, but Landorus-T will miss being able to quickly dispatch Gliscor and Tangrowth from the game as well as the ability to decimate Dragonite / Lando; however, keep in mind that boosted Stone Edges DO sting
    • More emphasis should be placed on getting and keeping entry hazards up on the opposing player's side of the field
    • CB Terrakion, AcroBat Gliscor, Ice Punch Lucario -- pretty much anything that can lure out this set's main checks and counters
    [SET]
    name: Gravity
    move 1: Gravity
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Many Pokemon received Gravity in BW2, including Landorus
    • With Gravity, Landorus-T go all out and let loose its powerful Earthquakes on whatever it chooses
    • Stone Edge also receives a much needed accuracy boost while Gravity is active
    • Hidden Power Ice can OHKO Gliscor after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKO Tangrowth -- two of Landorus's best checks
    • Landorus-T doesn't have to hog the entire duration of Gravity, though; with U-turn, Landorus-T can switch to teammate which also benefits from Gravity's effects, such as Mamoswine and Metagross, while scouting the opposition's answer to a Gravity-induced Landorus-T
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Spikes are incredible while Gravity is in effect, due to everything without Magic Guard taking damage
    • Once again, Forretress can work as fantastic support for Lando-T, keeping entry hazards off of the field, while possibly setting up Gravity itself
    • As already hinted at, other Pokemon with powerful STAB Earthquakes can function as nice offensive partners -- Swampert and Mamoswine, for example
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Expert Belt / Leftovers
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Intimidate allows for more free subs
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • .
    [Other Options]

    • CB, Bulk Up, RestTalk, pure SD, Rock Tomb
    • Why [tempting move] shouldn't be used
    [Checks and Counters]

    • Virtually the same as Lando-I
    • Skarm, Virizion, Rotom-W, bulky Latias, Slowbro
    • Mamoswine + anything faster than base 91 Speed can revenge kill unboosted Lando
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,703
    Choice Scarf shouldn't be his first set, as it is one of his worst sets. It is usable and deserves a set, but more often than not, Landorus is a way better Scarfer than Landorus-T.
  3. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    I have to disagree with that. Despite the Speed and Special Attack drops, Landorus-T, as a Choice Scarfer, produces, not only great, but more consistent results than its other sets. During the time which I'd used ScarfLando-T -- and had it used against me -- it did its job of scaring away and revenge killing some of the more prominent offensive threats in OU. Terrakion or Lucario couldn't set up SDes; some Keldeo were really cautious about taking extra damage; and other teams prioritized placing Lando-T in a checkmate position, above the other members of its team. Intimidate and the large Attack boost also give Choice Scarf Lando-T a load of flexibility, allowing it to function on multiple kinds of teams.

    @Swamp-Rocket- Fixed, thanks for the catch.
  4. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,485
    This should be base 91 speed.
  5. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,516
    I'd move the Defensive set to the first position as I've found it to be Landorus-T's best set. Personally, I see it as a more the offensive side of the same coin that Gliscor is on with regards to a bulky set with SR. Choice Scarf isn't really that amazing outside of a stronger U-turn than Landorus-I, which doesn't matter because it's only a scouting move anyway. I prefer these EVs to the one you have listed in the OP though: 196HP/96Atk/216Def Adamant. This gives you a Leftovers number, and has enough power to OHKO Dragonite with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock. The rest goes into Defense for added bulk, because it'll take a significant speed investment of around 90 EVs to reach 244 speed, which isn't really worth it due to the amount of bulk you sacrifice.

    I'd argue that the Choice Band set should 100% be removed. It's rarely going to see use due to Landorus-T's mediocre speed, and because locking yourself on Earthquake is a bad idea in Gen 5. Rock Polish is also something else that failed with Landorus-I, so I think that should also be scrapped.

    The Choice Scarf set doesn't need to be a +Speed nature. You're not outspeeding anything notable with only 95 base speed (unlike 101 for +1 Volcarona and Salamence). Make it Adamant/Naughty instead.
  6. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    On the Sub maybe there should be some added HP EV's to avoid the Sub from breaking from a certain target? For example 72 HP EV's prevent your Sub from ever being broken by Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat.

    I wouldn't knock off Landorus-T as a bander. Usually banders find themselves switching in and out a lot. Landorus-T can find a lot of oppurtunties/has ease switching in due to intimidate and he relatively hazard resilient (no spikes damage and a neutrality to SR).
  7. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,059
    HP Flying is a decent option on offensive sets! On top of beating basically any Breloom (who Landorus-T should be able to handle just fine), it also allows Landorus to 2HKO Virizion, even after a CM boost, and 2HKO Conkeldurr, who can otherwise beat you if you switch into a Bulk Up. Also, is there anything those 32 EVs in HP doing for the CS set? I feel as though a simple 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread would be better, most people will just speed creep up to that eventually anyway. Magnet Rise Magnezone is generally a solid partner for all the offensive sets bar Gravity, eliminating it's biggest counters in Bronzong and Skarmory with relative ease. Also, I've been running the Defensive set with a spread of 136 HP / 120 Atk / 252 Spe with an Adamant nature, and I would very much like to see it mentioned in the AC. This set allows Lando to switch into even CB Terrakion's Stone Edge after SR without being 2HKOed (40-47%), while serving as a powerful offensive pivot which can beat Lucario switching into SD (purely defensive variants get outsped and KO'ed by Ice Punch), OHKO Offensive Dragonite and Jirachi fairly consistently after SR, and more.
  8. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,651
    I've had experience with the Defensive set and it really does want those 96 Atk EVs with an Adamant nature since Dragonite is one of the physical attackers that Landorus-T can generally come in on. If you invest in Speed for the defensive set, 120 EVs puts you at 248 Speed, enough to get out of the Speed creep range of all the bulky stuff at 244 Speed. This'll let you get U-Turn off on Celebi before it can hit with anything and it also means that Specially Defensive Jirachi gets outsped and will be OHKOed by EQ with SR and 1 layer of Spikes before it can try to paraflinch you to death. Just something to think about if you want Lando-T to deal with them.
  9. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    Cool, I needed a bit of extra input on the spread before changing it. I won't mention anything about the massive speed creep, however. I'd much rather be slower than something like defensive Celebi, anyway.

    "Teammates". Landorus-T isn't a standalone Pokemon, and the Pokemon you'd mentioned either: A. Beat Lando anyway, or B. Can easily checked by another mon. Coverage on Gliscor / nuking something with Explosion is usually much more beneficial than KOing a few Fighting-types with HP Flying, especially with things like Thundurus-T, Lati@s, etc available.

    I'm very sure you calc'd that wrong. CB Terrakion does 49.3% - 57.8% to that spread with Stone Edge, which always 2HKOes after SR. In any case, I'd already mentioned power and defense benchmarks in the AC of the "Defensive" set.

    Moving CB to OO for now.
    Changed the order of the sets and the spread on "Defensive"; moving the spread I'd mentioned initially to AC.
    Naive / Jolly gets the jump on Scarf Rotom-A, +1 Adamant Haxorus, Jolly Nite / Gyara, and neutral Speed nature base 100's. The power drop doesn't cause Landorus-T to lose any notable KOs, anyway.

    Thanks for the tidbit of info regarding the EVs for the Substitute set. I'll try to see if I can find anything more efficient, but 72 HP EVs definitely sounds like a great start. CB Lando-T is a bit shaky imo. I haven't used it as much as the other sets, but can at least say that it has its perks. I'll just let QC give the final decision on that.
  10. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,651
    Well, Nachos's EV spread on the Defensive set is the most efficient I've tried Chillarmy. I toyed around with the higher Speed, and while it was helpful in some situations, the bulk is more useful. Nachos's EV spread does everything you could want. Ensures the OHKO of Dragonite, a common physical attacker, with Stone Edge after SR, hits the highest possible Leftovers number Lando-T can hit, and focuses on his physical bulk and abuse of Intimidate. I toyed with more Attack EVs, but you'd need real significant investment to ensure just a 3HKO on the standard Ferrothorn. 96 Attack EVs also ensures the 2HKO of CB Scizor with Earthquake, even without SR. (SR is needed for Bulky SD Scizor to ensure the 2HKO)
  11. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    ?_?

    The added bulk is a nice gift to defensive teams that need something powerful that can, more consistently, switch into and soften up CB'd stuff. The stat benchmarks, which have been in AC for a while, are there for a reason -- I know what the spread is capable of and how much more beneficial it is to run than something defensive. To reiterate, I only needed a bit of extra input before making the spread change, which I'd gotten, and the OP has been edited accordingly.
  12. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,952
    Landorus-T has a better BS Attack than Landorus and its first Set is the defensive one ? There is something wrong. It's not because it gets Intimidate that its immediately a Support. Gyarados' first set is the Dragon Dance one, not the Staller one. Landorus-T is a sweeper, it can be used as a support since it has Intimidate and good defenses, but its principal goal is to sweep. The Life Orber or the Expert Belt set are the most important for it. Also, it can be used as a "Lead" now since it has access to Stealth Rock. What about something like that :

    Landorus-T@Life Orb
    Intimidate
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Explosion

    The expert belt set is the same : eq / smack down / hp ice / uturn


    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

    SUPERPOWER ? Lol, its useless on it, HP Ice for sure and no need to slash it with superpower. Spread : 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spe

    Lemme test a Choice Band Set and i will post a short comment about it. With an attack like this one, a choice band set can be extremely powerfull. Something like that :

    Landorus-T@Choice Band
    Intimidate
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Uturn
    - Explosion
  13. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,292
    This has some issues, IMO.

    1) Where are all the stat-boosting sets? Landorus-T's biggest perks are the fact that he is i) pretty bulky and ii) ridiculously strong. Shouldn't this translate to "using its good bulk to set up" or "tank hits and dish out damage"? Why do we not have stuff like Double Dance or SubSD around in this analysis? The two sets just listed need to be in this analysis.

    2) The first two sets should not be the first two sets. Like Ojama said, why are we wasting the first set on a defensive set when his most dominant stat by leaps and bounds is his 145 Attack? Secondly, if you've seen me around the place, you'll know that I hate Scarf Landorus-T. I see no point to using it at all, when you have a Pokemon called Landorus-I who can exactly the same thing but better in almost every way. Name one Pokemon that Landorus-I cannot revenge that Landorus-T can. Conversely, the drop in 10 base Speed means that you fail to revenge kill +1 Haxorus, Salamence and Volcarona, all of whom are huge threats in the metagame. It's almost as silly as running Scarf Magnezone when you can just use Scarf Magneton, or use Scarf Latias when Latios is readily available. While it's not as bad as those two examples and I think will begrudgingly allow a Choice Scarf set, it should not be close to the top of the analysis, it should instead be at the bottom, and needs to seriously address why you use it instead of Landorus-I.

    3) Gravity doesn't deserve its own analysis, IMO. As much I love using it, it's a gimmick at best and an OO mention is enough.

    4) Substitute set should be turned into SubSD.

    5) Test a Choice Band set please. Landorus is far better off using its bulk to tank hits rather than be purely defensive.

    So tl;dr I want to see these sets (hopefully in this order):
    - SubSD
    - Double Dance
    - Choice Band?
    - Choice Scarf
    - Defensive
    - Gravity into OO.
  14. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,952
    Oh yah, approving shrang, forgot swords dance. Of course this set should be added.
  15. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,516
    When has double dance ever worked on anything other than Haxorus and Terrakion? Landorus-T doesn't have the awesome STAB moves to pull it off, despite the 145 base attack. The same goes for the Choice Band set. These sets were _never_ used on Landorus-I, and I have no idea why they'd be used on Landorus-T, especially considering it doesn't hit as hard in Sand and that there are better Choice Banders in Rain such as Azumarill.

    Just because something has a high attack stat, it doesn't mean we should jump to make the top set focus on that. The top Breloom analysis in BW was a defensive Bulk Up set despite a 130 base attack stat. The defensive set is the set that makes this thing stand out from Landorus-I, and is arguably the only one that isn't outclassed by it. Not to mention that it's actually good.
  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,743
    Yea I actually agree with Nachos here in that defensive should really be the main option. Its not really outclassed by anything, and yea, its really good so I'd kinda support it being #1.

    I kinda still like Gravity. Granted, I am a Gravity user, but it was pretty cool when I ran it on a Rock Polish set I threw together, and it was pretty cool. I could throw it out on a free switch if I wanted, and would put pressure on any levitators / flying types, easily switching in and around, and I could catch Skarmory switching in and trying to wall me. Its not a terrible set on it considering that Ground + Rock gets awesome coverage (and SE isn't going to miss under Gravity) and you get past one of your usual counters so id still support it getting a separate set.

    I am rather biased tho so willing to listen to other QC members.
  17. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,952
    No lol. Landorus isnt a staller but a sweeper. I dont get it, you just said "hey its not because it has a high attack that its good in choice bander". Same goes for the defensive set. Its not because it has Intimidate that it has to become a staller. What does Landorus stall ? It hasnt roost, it cant handle Terrakion very well since it HASNT ROOST. I would have agreed if it had Roost but it doesnt have it. Terrakion can easily use stone edge with the support of stealth rock and then its dead for your Landorus. In addition, the only move that can hit Dragonite is... stone edge. Interesting, 80% of accuracy, that sucks for a staller.

    I didnt say that double dance can work and im sure it couldnt work, but a choice band set can work very well same for the swords dance. It has UTURN which is extremely good on a choice bander. I will test it out and show you how strong it can be in CB.
  18. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,743
    Its not a staller, its an offensive pivot, which can switch in, use Intimidate to weaken physical attackers, U-Turn out, and set up Stealth Rock whenever it gets a free turn.


    CB Terrakion (-1) Stone Edge to Landorus: Stone Edge: 144-169 (39.23 - 46.04%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Yep, thats a dead Landorus-T. Please understand that the defensive set is very good, its a very good offensive pivot, and stop making pathetic arguments such as remarking that its "bad" because Stone Edge is its only move to hit Dragonite (it gets HP Ice too if you want it hit it that badly). Stone Edge gets a OHKO if Stealth Rock is up (2KO through Multi Scale) and yes, you can always switch in, knock its attack stat down, U-Turn out to a counter etc etc.
  19. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,952
    Pathetic arguments ? Your thing is almost 2HKO by stone edge -1 from terrakion and you're telling me, its not a dead landorus-t ? What about the choice band set or the SD set with LO / Rock Gem ? An offensive pivot ? I dont see why but hey, my arguments are pathetic, thats why you didnt tell me how good landorus-t was as a staller. Isnt the name of the set "defensive" ? Hmm. Use it and when you will face a +1 Dragonite (if outrage doesnt kill you hahaha....) you'll see how it sucks to have stone edge as your only way to beat nite ^_^
    But hey, i suck at OU, my arguments are pathetic, you're too good ginga. Lets use landorus-t as a staller, its slow, stalls nothing but its good !!!

    EDIT : So you're saying that the only thing lando-t has to do is to come on the field to weaken physical sweepers with intimidate and then uturn out. And so thats why, you need a defensive spread ? Use the sweeper set, it still has intimidate, trust me !!
  20. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,743
    That calc WAS a CB Terrakion Stone Edge, LO is going to do even less... since even with a SD you only hit +1 rather than +2 thanks to Intimidate and again, fail to OHKO



    Choice Band Terrakion is one of the strongest physical hitters in OU. It hits most of the metagame hard, 2KOs both Gliscor and Skarmory, and your complaining that Landorus_T can avoid a 2KO with leftovers? Are you seriously arguing this?

    Its not designed to be a staller. On a full stall team, yes, you have a point, skarmory and Gliscor are likely better picks due to there choices in recovery. On a balanced team however, you can chuck on Landorus-T, take on the strongest physical hitters in the metagame, set up Stealth Rock, and function as an excellent defensive pivot, rather like how Gliscor functions on some teams in BW.

    +1 Dragonite isn't going to happen since you switch in on a Dragon Dance and its +0. But, since you really want to show this point...

    +1 Outrage from the Offensive Dragonite set and EVs...

    Outrage: 193-228 (52.44 - 61.95%)

    Thats not terrible at all considering you can switch in on a Dragon Dance, Stone Edge to break its Scale as it dragon dances again, survive the hit, and Stone Edge again for the KO. Thats damn good if you ask me for something I can just throw onto prety much any team. Seems like a great choice for Sun teams just off the top of my head which usually hate Terrakion + Nite.

    I apologise for calling your arguments pathetic, it was very wrong of me and im sorry. You do have to understand that you are underrating Landorus-T quite a bit however, and people are trying to get this point across to you.

    I never said this, but it can if it wants. It has the bulk to handle some of the strongest physical sweepers and then hit back with its a hard hitting Stone Edge / Earthquake coming off 140 base Atk, which is going to hit ANYTHING hard.

    tl:dr its good.
  21. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,269
    yo guys, chill the fuck out and keep it civil

    this is the first, last, and only warning, anything of a similar nature in another thread is going to get a super special pm from me
  22. yee

    yee
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,110
    Can we please change the EVs on the SR set? Leftovers numbers bug me more than anything, we're not trying to minimize the pokemon's overall bulk when we have more EVs to use, 252 hp / 96 / 160 def would be better overall.
  23. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,292
    Why can't Double Dance work on Landorus-T? It's not a criteria that you have to be Haxorus or Terrakion to be able to run a Double Dance set. While Landorus-T doesn't have the most amazing STABs, it's coverage and power is good enough that it doesn't matter. It's also considerably bulkier than the both of them, factoring in Intimidate, as well as having better resistances and immunities to switch in more easily. I actually like to compare Landorus-T as a Double Dancer to what Groudon does in Ubers. They are actually very similar.

    Oh yeah, I don't think CB is unviable. The raw power says a lot. I personally thought CB Landorus-I was very good too. Basically, CB Landorus-T is doing what it does best: Tank hits and hit back very, very hard.

    On the defensive set, the main jibe I like to throw at it is that it really wastes Landorus-T's potential. A bulky, moderately fast Pokemon with humoungus attack screams for you to use it as a bulky sweeper. You might ask why should we use offensive sets when you can just use Landorus-I, but I can just turn around and ask why are we using defensive sets when we can just Gliscor. Bulk Up Breloom isn't exactly my favourite set either, but I guess it does it's job. I've seen too many Pokemon being used in positions where they really waste their potential, the biggest being mixed Tyranitar (oh my God, you do not want me to get started on that thing). I'm perfectly fine with having a defensive tankish set on Landorus-T, just not as the main set. I don't want to see another Tyranitar where everyone just wastes its potential.
  24. Garganator

    Garganator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    540
    Actually for me difference in bulk is significant enough for me to consider Landorus-T for stall teams as well, as you may always use Wish support to make up for his missing recovery, especially when he has GOOD synergy with Chansey/Blissey easily tanking Fighting hits aimed on pink blobs. On stall team where you may pretty much always find a spot for Wish user, it's not a problem at all.

    And is CB really unviable BTW ? While I agree that Landorus is faster and it outdamage him in Sand, for first I think I would go with Max HP/Max Atk on Landorus (maybe use small amount of EVs to outspeed certain slow targets). Actually it would be a good defensive pivot with Intimidiate and the ability to hit hard as well with good prediction is something Landorus can't do with much lower bulk counting Intimidate in and Gliscor can't obviously match this offensive power at all. Also not being as weather dependant is good as well. While being locked in Earthquake may be fatal, Landorus have Choice Band as one of his main options and being locked in EQ is as fatal on him as on Landorus-T. And BTW on balanced/bulky offense teams you will have some beefy switchins against targets, which may abuse that free turn from EQ (BTW just spam Stone Edge at first to scout targets as most EQ resists hates Stone Edge or just U-Turn). I think I would give it at least a try, as it's not really outclassed with more bulky EVs IMO counting Intimidiate in.
  25. Grimm70

    Grimm70

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    264
    Well, a bulky version of Landorus-T is not a bad idea but what about this spread ??? 218 in speed for a Landorus ? "Hello Tentacruel I can and I want to kill you but damn you, you are so fast ! "

    You created this Landorus-T with only Terrakion in your head. But you can't... Jirachi, Celebi some Heatran, other Landorus, Rotom-W, Ninetailes, Toxicroak, offensive Politoad, Gliscor and What the fuck the list might be pretty long. You outspeed nothing and are now fucked by a ton of Pokemon juste because you want to check a CB Terrakion? That's really not a good deal... You can't even use U-Turn against many of them because of this odd speed :(
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)