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Lapras (3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Metal Sonic, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    [Overview]

    <p>Lapras has access to Thunderbolt and a wonderful ability in Water Absorb, which grants it an immunity to Water-type attacks, allowing it to function as a great check to the myriad of Water-types lurking in the Neverused tier. Offensively, Lapras faces competition for a slot on the team from other Water-types such as Samurott and Seismitoad. However, Lapras can play the role of an offensive tank, especially with its decent bulk and BoltBeam coverage. Finally, Lapras's Ice typing allows it to check some threatening Ice-types. Lapras is a fair Pokemon in the tier as it can perform multiple roles decently; however, it isn't an amazing one either as it cannot perform any of them exceptionally well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Substitute / Frost Breath
    item: Leftovers / Choice Specs
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 200 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Access to Thunderbolt and a STAB Ice Beam is Lapras's niche. Water Absorb is a great ability, granting Lapras an immunity to Water-type moves and restoring 25% of its health when hit by one. Thus, there is a great incentive to switch Lapras into a predicted Water-type attack so it can check the opponent. Lapras's great bulk lets it take on powerful Water- and Ice-types with ease, especially Samurott. Hydro Pump is an obvious STAB option and helps take down Fire-, Rock-, and Ground-type opponents such as Golem, Probopass, Torkoal, and Charizard. Thunderbolt is a great move that smashes the Water-types that Lapras checks, including Samurott and Alomomola. Ice Beam is used for defeating Grass-types that threaten Lapras, such as Roselia and Vileplume, and potentially KO them before they have a chance to strike back. Substitute is used to ease prediction on the Leftovers set and can also block status moves. Lapras can set up with Substitute against Alomomola or when it forces a switch. Frost Breath should only be used with Choice Specs, as it allows Lapras to break through opponents with Special Defense boosts thanks to its 100% critical hit rate.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The 44 Speed EVs allow Lapras to outspeed Roselia and Alomomola, while the rest of the EVs are put into its bulk. Some EVs are invested into Lapras's defenses rather than its HP, as this results in an overall bulkier spread. Having an HP stat indivisible by four reduces the damage Lapras takes from Stealth Rock. With the given EVs, Lapras can survive two Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Grasses from Samurott after Leftovers recovery, a +2 Megahorn after Stealth Rock damage, and even a +2 Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Grass from Gorebyss given that it is at full HP. This is useful as one of Lapras's roles is to check offensive Water-types.</p>

    <p>Roselia and Garbodor are great teammates for Lapras, as they can provide entry hazard support and soak up Toxic Spikes, which cripple Lapras. Garbodor is a fantastic check to Fighting-types that threaten Lapras, while Roselia can take on Electric-types and fast Grass-types such as Serperior and Simisage. Rapid Spin support is nice to have for Lapras. Torkoal is the best spinner to pair with Lapras as it resists Grass-type moves, can spin away entry hazards, and can set up its own entry hazards. Meanwhile, Lapras can reliably take down the Water- and Ground-types that try to force Torkoal out with Toxic and Ice Beam, respectively. Some Ground-types such as Golem make for great teammates, as they are immune to Electric-type moves and can take Rock-type attacks aimed at Lapras. Furthermore, they can set up Stealth Rock to support the team. In return, Lapras can take Water- and Ice-type attacks for them. Sawk and Torterra deserve special mentions as partners for Lapras, as both have a resistance to Rock-type attacks and have the ability to prevent opposing entry hazards from being set up thanks to Mold Breaker and Bullet Seed, respectively. Meanwhile, Lapras can handle the Ice-type attacks that Torterra hates.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A specially defensive set can be used for Lapras to take on Gorebyss and special Samurott. A physically defensive set can allow it to beat Swords Dance Samurott and Ground-types more easily. However, Walrein is more adept at this role due to its greater bulk and access to Encore.</p>

    <p>Lapras has a fair base 85 Attack and access to Dragon Dance, so it can run a physically offensive set with Waterfall, Ice Shard, and Drill Run as its attacking moves. However, its base 60 Speed leaves much to be desired, and it can be outsped and KOed by multiple Choice Scarf users even after a boost or two. Lapras can utilize a physical Curse set to take advantage of its great bulk, but its multitude of weaknesses to common attacking types such as Fighting and Grass makes it unable to set up safely. Lapras has access to Heal Bell and can act as a cleric, but such a role is generally done better by bulkier teammates such as Musharna and Audino. A set with Hydration and Rest may look cool at first sight, but Lapras will rarely stay in to take advantage of rain, as it is easily forced out due to its poor defensive typing.</p>

    [Checks & Counters]

    <p>As Ice is a poor defensive typing, Lapras has multiple weaknesses that make it easy to force out. Lapras's weakness to Stealth Rock and vulnerability to Spikes leave it severely weakened after a few switch-ins. Fast Pokemon with super effective STAB moves can force it out if they switch in safely: prime examples include Ludicolo, Electabuzz, Sawk, and Primeape. As Lapras can easily be worn down by Substitute, entry hazard damage (especially Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock), and offensive pressure, care should be taken to minimize the amount of residual damage it takes. In general, Lapras is too slow to check offensive teams, yet lacks the power to break stall teams. Both of these team archetypes are able to handle Lapras easily.</p>
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  2. FLCL

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    lapras will be more effective using it's offensive options rather than being another shitty walrein clone.

    Lapras @ Leftovers / Choice Specs
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 204 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 44 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute / Frost Breath

    outspeeds alomomola, roselia, rest in bulk. 204 hp / 4 def / 4 spdef is bulkier than just using 212 hp. frost breath should only be used on the specs set.

    also you seem to have a lot of unnecessary lines in this analysis
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  3. Metal Sonic

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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  4. Lasagne

    Lasagne me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!
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    [SC]
    substitute isn't just used to ease prediction, the main reasons to use it are the fact that it blocks status moves and that it means you don't have to take a potentially fatal hit.

    [C&C]
    for the first point, don't say 'as usual'. Just say ice is a poor defensive typing.
    combine the first and second points to just say something along the lines of how fast Pokemon with stab super effective moves can beat Lapras if they switch in safely

    [OO]
    mention specific physical moves Lapras can carry on the dragon dance and curse sets. Eg waterfall, ice shard

    I'll check back more later, just skimming a couple of sections
  5. Metal Sonic

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  6. Lasagne

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    [Overview]

    No need for the 'fair special attack' point, since the attacking stats are equal. you can put somethign about how it has pretty mediocre offensive stats (literally the same as munchlax lol)

    [Other Options]

    mention Drill Run instead of Return, since everything gets access to Return, and Drill Run is useful coverage
    it can use Heal Bell to act as a cleric, but this is generally done better by bulkier mons like musharna and audino
    mention other special coverage moves (psychic, dragon pulse, signal beam etc.)

    once again just a quick skim. i promise next check will be a proper one
  7. Metal Sonic

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  8. Dat Blast

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    Like 90% of the Overview is unnecessary. You need to explain its actual role in the meta (offensive tank, Water check, Jynx check), rather than basically just shooting out a bunch of random points that only tell us what Lapras CAN'T do, rather than what it can. I mean, it's fine to say faces competition from stuff like Regice or w/e, but it's not okay to mention that it doesn't get Thick Fat and Walrein does because frankly it doesn't particularly matter. Also, you keep on comparing this to Walrein when the two play almost nothing alike. Just explain what it does, what it's good at, and its direct positives and negatives, and please stop comparing it to stuff just because they share the same typing.
  9. Worldtour

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    Just popping in but would Signal Beam be worth putting on the set over a Sub or Frost Breath? If anything it at least allows you to hit Jynx for some good damage, which is also helpful considering it can do well against Jynx without Focus Blast. Substitute on Lapras seems eh due to it having a large reliance on its bulk to be good, and chipping off 25% can hurt in the long run (especially with its sr weakness), and unlike Frost Breath it offers some additional coverage.

    EDIT: As for Substitute the fact that it blocks status isn't really all that important since Lapras can use Heal Bell. It usually doesn't run into a situation where it's just going to get OHKOed (and even then Hydro Pump or Ice Beam hurts most of these Pokemon a lot)
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  10. Soulgazer

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    252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jynx: 210-248 (77.49 - 91.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    This is pretty much all Signal Beam really do that Lapas's other moves can't, and this is only with Choice Specs, when you compare what Signal Beam can do that its other moves can do, I personally think Signal Beam should be in AC. Being able to do steady damage against opponent's Calm Mind user can be quite valuable: (take in mind I made Ice Beam's power 40)

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Ice Beam vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Duosion on a critical hit: 165-195 (49.4 - 58.38%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Ice Beam vs. +6 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna on a critical hit: 168-198 (38.79 - 45.72%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    And Frost Breath is also STAB, unlike Signal Beam, which means it will still do a decent chunk against any Pokemon that doesn't resist it.

    Substitute allows Lapras to set up against Alomomola and multiple other walls that it can force out with its amazing coverage. This can be really beneficial as Lapras is quite slow when you compare it to the rest of the metagame, and while it does take 25% off his health, Substitute can come in handy on multiple situations. And to be honest I don't think Lapras wants to take time to use Heal Bell while it could actually use Substitute on the turn the opponent's Pokemon uses a status move or simply attack it.

    TLDR
    • Signal Beam in AC

    sorry if anything in this post is confusing, it is quite late here!
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  11. Alonsoforever

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    Don't know if this is good or not, but shouldn't Sleep Talk get a mention, especially when using Choice Specs? Lapras can make a decent Sleep absorber (Well, maybe not as it has trouble hitting Jynx and can't switch reliably into Grass-types). I don't know, for running Frost Breath, I may prefer to run Sleep Talk.
  12. Dat Blast

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    Sleep Talk could be a possible AC but I don't really like it on Specs Lapras because it doesn't hit hard enough to really use the move well. It doesn't have the luxury of being able to click Sleep Talk without worrying about what move it picks because each move hit a specific target and does jack to the next.
  13. Metal Sonic

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  14. Soulgazer

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    Metal Sonic implement this please, and I will check later!
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  15. Metal Sonic

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  16. Soulgazer

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    I don't know why I made you do that change Oo, but:

    While Lapras outspeeds Adamant Carracosta by 4 points, Jolly Carracosta actually outspeeds :s i need to stop qcing at 3am



    Alomomola is the only one that you gain the ability to OHKO, and that's with 3 lair of Spikes and Stealth Rock. You only get a slim chance to OHKO Wartortle after 3 lair of Spikes + Stealth Rock, and Charizard is already OHKOed by Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump. (This is with Choice Specs).

    TBH remove it.

    While entry hazard is always nice, it shouldn't be the first reason to use one of these three Poison-type alongside Lapras; Garbodor is a fantastic check against Fighting-types first, then provides entry hazards second. Roselia is great to take on Electric-types and fast Grass-types such as Serperior and Simisage. As for Scolipede, it can either set up entry hazard on a resisted Fighting-type attack (Choice-locked Primeape or Sawk) or set up Swords Dance and/or a Substitute to sweep, but you have to be careful as Fighting-types usually carry a Rock-type coverage move (Stone Edge).

    o.o
    change Gurdurr for Primeape.

    Implement these, and ...

    [​IMG]
    qc 1/3 Metal Sonic
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  17. Orphic

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    I think it's worth giving Perish Song a mention in AC, works well in a bulky lapras set and especially with toxic and subsitute in there.

    Maybe a dragon dance set? While Specs Lapras is powerful, +1 Lapras is just as powerful with its physical attack being the same as its special attack. I admit that it's physical options may be weaker but combined with the bulk of Lapras, dragon dance allows it to set up and hit a lot of pokemon very hard. Can also set up on scarf Jynx and other ice and water type pokemon.

    Lapras @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute/Ice Shard/Avalanche
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall/Aqua Tail
    - Drill Run/Ice Shard/Avalanche
  18. Dat Blast

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    Perish Song is a decentish move, but I wouldn't give it more than an OO mention especially since this is a more bulkyish offensive set, not a wall. You could just mention it alongside the mention of SpD Lapras and say it has some decent support moves.

    DD Lapras is bad as it's extremely slow before a boost, too weak to sweep, and weak to a lot of common Scarfers like Primeape and Electabuzz (Jynx is the only one you do semi-decently against, and you can't even set up on that because of Trick and LK). Deserves OO because it's a cool move, but Lapras doesn't utilize it very well.

    Anyways while I'm here:

    [Overview]
    • Still pretty... awkward in terms of wording and such, but I trust that you'll clarify your points during the writeup so I'll let that slide this once.
    [SET]
    • Change the EVs to 200 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe to give you an SR number. Putting the 4 leftover EVs into Def makes you bulkier physically, while 4 extra SpD doesn't make a difference.
    • Also, the proper formatting for Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed EVs is SpA / SpD / Spe, respectively, so change the formatting to match.
    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Some cool calcs you could probably mention are that with the given EVs you survive two LO HP Grasses from Samurott after Leftovers, a +2 Megahorn after SR, and even a +2 HP Grass from LO Gorebyss at full. Pretty relevant since one of Lapras's roles is to check offensive Water-types, so definitely worth mentioning.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • I'd rather not mention Missy, it takes a solid chunk from Hydro / Ice Beam and generally can't really wall Lapras all that well, even though it does wear it down considerably.
    Implement pls Metal Sonic , and I'll stamp (and sorry bout johning this stuff for so long!!!)
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  19. Orphic

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    Ah my mistake, I'm relatively new to this, i meant add perish song to OO not AC!
  20. Metal Sonic

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  21. Dat Blast

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    *8 Def

    QC 2/3 Metal Sonic
  22. Dat Blast

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    Already checked this Metal Sonic but I have some nitpicks:
    Lapras can't wall or (fully) counter Water-types as it's running a more offensive set, it's only a prominent check.
    Lapras can't reliably take down Rock-types as it can't switch in, so remove the bolded part. Also since it's not running a SpD set I'd probably just remove the second sentence altogether.

    Also pls get rid of all mentions of Jynx + Scolipede in all your analyses, thanks :) Oh yeah and you probably want to remove Signal Beam from AC as its main target is gone.
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  23. Metal Sonic

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  24. Metal Sonic

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    Lasagne
    could you qc this please <3

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