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Lapras (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by The3DOstrich, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    [​IMG]

    Pokedex: Lapras

    Status: Done!

    QC Checks
    1) PK Gaming
    2) wilson46
    3) Iconic

    GP Checks
    1) jc104
    2) Athenodoros
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>Lapras has always been a unique pokemon. Back in Gen 4, Lapras was one among many bulky Waters running around in the lower tiers. However, this shellfish distinguished himself from its brethren with both a great offensive and supporting movepool. It could strike opponents hard with the notorious BoltBeam combo, force switches with Perish Song, or even sweep through teams with either Curse or Dragon Dance. Now, in Gen 5, Lapras has received two godsends that only boost its potential to insane levels: Hydration and Drizzle Politoed. Lapras's Dream World ability, Hydration, coupled with Rest, unlimited Rain, and natural bulk, allows him to hold its own. Lapras can also use a 100% accurate Thunder under the Rain to damage other bulky Waters, or can nab a couple of boosts through Curse or Dragon Dance, safely Rest up thanks to Hydration, and attempt a sweep. Lapras also has a great support movepool, with moves like Perish Song and Toxic, which in conjunction with Rest, can allow him to force switches or effectively stall out opponents.</p>

    <p>Though Lapras is a versatile pokemon with many strengths, it is not without its flaws. Unlike other Waters, such as Cloyster and Omastar, Lapras missed out on one of the best boosting moves: Shell Smash. Its Ice typing also grants him a weakness to Stealth Rock, though it isn’t too much of a problem thanks to Hydration + Rest. Lapras also falls prey to the many new Fighting-types lurking around the standard environment, and is weak to the common priority moves Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch. Lapras also has a low base 60 Speed, meaning it has to use Dragon Dance to outspeed anything in the metagame. One final, significant, problem for Lapras is the presence of the various weather changers, all of whom can ruin Hydration. Despite its drawbacks, Lapras functions excellently alongside Politoed and should seriously be considered for use on any Rain team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: LapDance (Dragon Dance)
    move1: Dragon Dance
    move2: Waterfall
    move3: Return / Ice Shard
    move4: Rest
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Hydration
    evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though it missed out on Shell Smash, Lapras still retains a reasonable boosting move in Dragon Dance. The point of this set is to send Lapras out against a foe who doesn’t threaten it, nab a couple of boosts, Rest if necessary and proceed to sweep. Waterfall is your main Water-type STAB move, and at +1 can deal a lot of damage under the Rain, coupled with a chance to flinch the opponent. Return is used in the third slot to hit foes who may resist Waterfall, such as Gyarados and Rotom-W. However, Ice Shard can be used to provide Lapras with an Ice-type STAB move, as well as letting him hit faster Pokemon. Rest is a must for this set, as it grants Lapras the ability to recover all of its health before attempting to sweep.</p>

    <p> The choice of nature depends on what you want Lapras to outspeed. With Jolly and the given EVs, Lapras can outspeed all positive base 100’s after a single boost. However, Adamant gives you the ability to hit harder, while still outrunning neutral-natured base 100s. Life Orb is the preferred option on this set, as Lapras wants to be hitting as hard as it possibly can; the Attack EVs provided allow Lapras to do just so. The remaining EVs have been placed in Special Defense so Lapras may better take hits aimed at its better defensive side.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> Lapras can use Ice Shard in slot four to grant him three attacking moves, as Hydration can still be used to rid Lapras of any paralysis, burns, or poison. However, Rest is definitely the better choice, as it allows Lapras to recover all of its health before sweeping. Bulldoze can be used so Lapras can hit Jellicent, who otherwise walls Lapras. The move also provides him with decent coverage, and the Speed drop can be used to force switches. Body Slam is an option over Return due to its chance of paralysis, though Lapras will outspeed most forms of opposition after a few Dragon Dances anyway. Substitute is always there so Lapras can guarantee a Dragon Dance boost on a predicted switch. However, this means Lapras either has to sacrifice Rest or an attacking move, which it really should not do. Lapras can also run an alternative spread of 252 Atk / 36 SpD / 220 Spe with a Jolly nature so it may outspeed threatening base 108’s, such as Terrakion and Infernape. Lapras can even run a spread with maximum speed investment, as it allows him to out run troubling base 111s.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Drizzle Politoed is an absolute must, as the unlimited Rain keeps Hydration in effect. Ferrothorn is another great partner for Lapras, as the entry hazard support means Lapras will have an easier time picking off weaker foes. Packing a Dual Screener also benefits Lapras, as the temporary increase in bulk allows him to set up extra Dragon Dances. Good candidates for this role include Reuniclus and Cresselia, both of whom can come in on any Fighting-type attack aimed at Lapras and safely set up screens thanks to their natural bulk. Fighting-type attacks in general give Lapras a great deal of trouble. To get by this, Lapras could also be paired with a bulky Ghost-type, such as Spiritomb or Cofagrigus, who can come in on any Fighting-type attacks Lapras may lure and use Will-O-Wisp to cripple the foe. Physical walls, namely Skarmory, can give Lapras a fair amount of trouble. Though Skarmory doesn’t like a +6 Rain boosted STAB Waterfall, it’s always nice to pair Lapras with Zapdos or Thundurus, as both can KO Skarmory with a 100% accurate STAB Thunder.</p>

    <p>Toxic Spikes support is also greatly appreciated by this set, as it allows Lapras to outstall the likes of Jellicent and Unaware Quagsire, both of whom can otherwise easily wall Lapras. Tentacruel is a good candidate, as it also benefits from the Rain thanks to Rain Dish, and can come in on Fighting attacks aimed at Lapras. However, since Tentacruel shares a weakness with Lapras, Forretress is another option, as it shares nice type synergy with Lapras and can set up both Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, as well as being able to Rapid Spin away any entry hazards set up by the opponent.</p>

    <p>Two incredibly effective counters for this set are Unaware Quagsire and Water Absorb Jellicent, the former ignoring all of Lapras’ Dragon Dance boosts and can force Lapras to switch, while the latter walls Lapras completely, only taking a small amount from Ice Shard. Ferrothorn also walls this set with great ease, and can use Lapras as set up fodder for Leech Seed and entry hazards and proceed to Power Whip away. However, it does not appreciate a +6 Waterfall under the Rain. Rotom-W also walls those who do not carry Return, and can either slowly wear down Lapras with Thunderbolt or Will-O-Wisp on the switch. Thundurus and Whimsicott also make good checks for Lapras, as they can stop aboosted Lapras using Thunder Wave or Stun Spore and beat Lapras with Thunderbolt and SubSeed respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Curse
    move1: Curse
    move2: Rest
    move3: Waterfall
    move4: Toxic / Ice Shard
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Hydration
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike the Dragon Dancer, this Lapras sacrifices Speed so it may boost both its Attack and Defense stats. Both Curse and Rest are pretty self-explanatory, and the point of the set is essentially the same as the Dragon Dancer: find a good switch-in on whom you can set up, gain a few boosts, and Rest before attempting a sweep. The latter is also very crucial for Lapras' survivability, as it becomes an immense pain to take out once it has a few Curse boosts. Waterfall remains Lapras's best STAB choice, as it packs quite a punch while under the Rain. Toxic is the best option for slot 4, as it lets Lapras beat the likes of Quagsire, Rotom-W, and Jellicent. However, if having only one attacking move does not appeal to you, Ice Shard is the alternative, as it gives Lapras an Ice-type STAB move, as well as priority to bypass the Speed drops as a result of Curse.</p>

    <p>For the choice of item, Leftovers is generally the better way to go if Lapras is only running Waterfall, as the Rain boost means Lapras can afford not to run a Life Orb. However, if you're using both Waterfall and Ice Shard and feel that Rest is all the recovery you need, Life Orb can be used for a push in power. The EVs given maximize Lapras’s special bulk so it may take both physical and special hits once it has obtained a few Curse boosts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of its lack of a stellar physical movepool, Lapras really does not have too much else it can utilize. Return can be used so Lapras may hit Rotom-W and Gyarados, both of whom resist Waterfall. Bulldoze can be used to hit Empoleon, but finds little use outside of that. Avalanche is an interesting option, as it provides Lapras with an alternative Ice-type STAB. The negative priority is of little consequence thanks to the Speed drops from Curse, and when at full power its destructiveness easily makes up for this.</p>

    <p>As with all Lapras sets, Drizzle Politoed is the most important teammate, as the unlimited Rain support means Lapras can abuse Hydration + Rest to the fullest extent. Ferrothorn, once again, also makes a good partner for Lapras, as the entry hazard support gives Lapras an easier time sweeping. If running Ice Shard in slot four, Toxic Spikes is crucial for beating Quagsire and Jellicent. Tentacruel and Forretress make good choices, with the former benefiting from the Rain and the latter sharing nice type synergy with Lapras. Packing a bulky Ghost-type, such as Cofagrigus or Evolite Dusclops, is a very efficient way for Lapras to deal with Fighting-type opposition, as the two can come in on any Fighting-type moves Lapras attracts and cripple the foe with Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    <p>When countering this set, Ferrothorn does the job best, as it resists Lapras's Water-type STAB and is immune to Toxic. Ferrothorn can use Lapras to set up Leech Seed and entry hazards and start Power Whipping. However, when Lapras reaches +6, Power Whip will not be inflicting much damage, and Ferrothorn will not like taking a +6 Waterfall under the Rain. If not carrying Toxic, Unaware Quagsire can cause quite a problem, as it can ignore all of Lapras’ boosts and stall the shellfish out with a combination of Earthquake and Recover. Jellicent can do this as well, though a +6 Ice Shard can inflict enough damage to worry it.</p>

    <p>As always, weather changers are also a massive problem, as they easily nullify Lapras’s Hydration + Rest strategy. Bringing in a Tyranitar, Ninetales, or Abomasnow on a weakened Lapras means that the shellfish will either have to Rest or switch out, allowing a free setup. However, they must beware when switching in, as a predicted Waterfall can KO the former two weather changers, while the latter does not like being inflicted with Toxic.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Lapras has a rather vast collective movepool, so the options it can utilize are not limited. Lapras can run a generic choice set, as it has enough of a movepool on both sides of the spectrum to do so. Due to instant recovery in the form of Rest, Lapras can run a Toxic stalling set with Substitute, Toxic, Rest, and Surf / Ice Beam. However, its bulk falls a bit short of that necessary to abuse it to its fullest potential. Lapras can also use Thunder, Confuse Ray, and Waterfall to pull off a Parafusion set, though Lanturn generally pulls it off better.</p>

    <p>Lapras has access to a fantastic special movepool as well, especially the use of the BoltBeam combo. Thunder can be used, as it receives 100% accuracy under the Rain. Lapras can also be used on a Hail team and abuse a 100% accurate Blizzard. However, because of Hydration, Rain is the best form of weather for Lapras. Ice Breath is an interesting move Lapras can utilize on a special set, as it always results is a critical hit. Sing is a way in which Lapras can provide sleep support; however, the 55% accuracy really is not worth it. Lapras can also utilize a Perish trapper set with the moves Perish Song, Whirlpool, Rest, and Surf / Ice Beam along with a Grip Claw to KO troubling foes.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>When countering Lapras, Jellicent is the first thing to come to mind. With its typing and Water Absorb, it is immune to both Waterfall and Return and resists Ice Shard, and can stall out variants who do not carry Toxic. Ferrothorn is another great counter, as it resists Lapras’s Water-type STAB and can use Lapras as set up fodder. However, Ferrothorn must be wary, as a Waterfall at +6 under the Rain can seriously dent its HP. Quagsire who pack Unaware also wall Lapras, as they can ignore all of its boosts and slowly Earthquake away. However, they must be wary when facing the Curse set, as Lapras can easily outstall Quagsire with Toxic.</p>

    <p>Preventing Lapras from initially setting up is always a good thing to do, as you needn’t fear the consequences later. Thundurus and Whimsicott do a fine job of this, as they can easily Taunt either set thanks to Prankster, and use Thunderbolt and Leech Seed, respectively.</p>

    <p>In general, Fighting-types give Lapras a tough time, since they can easily threaten him before or after it sets up. Conkeldurr deserves a special mention, as it can bypass the Dragon Dance variant’s speed with a STAB super effective Mach Punch. Conkeldurr also does not mind taking a Toxic from the Curse set due to Guts, and can retaliate with a Drain Punch.</p>
  2. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Posting to say this is ready for QC Checks!
  3. Janza

    Janza

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    Just pointing out, you misspelled Scald as Sclad on the Overview.
  4. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    No Ice Shard in Curse set?
  5. wilson46

    wilson46
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    Ferrothorn should be stressed as a counter, as you really can't do anything to it while it can set up hazards, Leech Seed, and smack you hard with STAB Power Whip.

    Parafusion set looks gimmicky, and why does it have King's Rock as the first slash...? The Dragon Dancer's 3rd moveslot has too many slashes as well. It also seems like Lapras relies too much on rain, and seems most of the sets (and Lapras itself) are not effective without always Rain up (against Sand and Sun teams), making me question Lapras' viability.
  6. Lucario_Guy

    Lucario_Guy

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    It should be noted that Lapras and Ferrothorn share a common weakness to Fighting, and as such, a third Pokémon which resists Fighting is highly recommended as a partner.
  7. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    That's what the bulky Ghosts are for, as they can come in on a Close Combat or Hi Jump Kick and Will-O-Wisp, crippling any Fighting-type opposition.
  8. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    The Dragon Dance set has some serious issues and I'm curious to know how much thought you put into it. Here's what I recommend:

    Lapras @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 68 Atk / 188 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Rest
    -Return / Outrage / Toxic

    Remove Nattorei before attempting to sweep, obviously. The Special Defense EVs and Leftovers allows you to avoid being 2HKOed Scarf Latios' Thunderbolt if Stealth Rock isn't up, allowing you to set up on it for free (44.89% - 52.87%). Waterfall and Return give you very good coverage, contrary to what is said, as only Burungeru, Empoleon, Shedinja and Nattorei resist the combination, 10x better than Level Ground (I mean, WTF is Level Ground doing, seriously?!). Burungeru can be stalled out with Toxic Spikes, Empoleon is set up on and Shedinja dies to entry hazards. If you want to hit Burungeru and stuff like Latios, Outrage is not a bad option. Toxic can be used in conjunction with Waterfall to stall out Burungeru and other stuff that resist Water (apart from Nattorei, Empoleon and stuff like Tentacruel).
  9. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    I don't think Hydration and Outrage are compatible, and if they were compatible I still don't think it would a very good option. I think return would be the best option for the last Slot. I guess Ice Shard might work, but after a DD its would be outspeeding most stuff anyway. Regarding the Evs, they look pretty good, the evs, I've been using were 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe, and the extra bulk really helped on many occasions.
  10. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Ah, ok. Just Return and Toxic should do then. I really don't think Lapras needs extra HP EVs, do you?
  11. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    I added the set, but I think it serves a more defensive role than the other DD set. I changed the ev spread for that one as well and removed Level Ground ( I don't know why I thought it provided better coverage), but otherwise found it to be pretty effective. I'll keep them both up for now, but if I find this one more effective, I'll remove the "offensive" variant.
  12. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    So...many...sets...

    On the Parafusion set, mention Thunder Wave as another option in case Thunder's poor accuracy outside of rain and lower paralysis chance is less than optimal.

    Also, in what universe is there such a thing as a "defensive" Dragon Dancer? As you've already got a more offensive DD set, go ahead and cut the second one.
  13. Eos

    Eos Do It With A DON!
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    Very limited sets and descriptions, I think you should work harder on them b4 anyone can rate this -_-
    Anyways, of course i'm kidding. I like all of the sets at least a little bit except for the "Defensive Dragon Dance" set. I agree with Galladiator, in which it'd just be better if it was cut. The synergy with defense and DD really usually doesn't work out too well, with most teams. I really don't think King's Rock would be too good of a choice either on that parafusion set, but ig you can keep it slashed.

    Otherwise, fantastic job on this!
  14. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    The two of you seem to miss the point of a bulky dance set - it uses its bulk (which Lapras has plenty of) and recovery to grab multiple boosts before sweeping, and is one of the ways in which Lapras distinguishes from the stronger and faster dragon dancers. It stays, and should probably take precedence over the all-out offensive set to be honest.
  15. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    For one like Lapras, the bulky Dragon Dance set is definitely more effective. There's little use in only getting one boost, so use a set that can get you more.

    Both boosting moves are honestly a pain to deal with in rain.
  16. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Lapras does not learn Thunder Wave sadly, otherwise that would be option number one. Anyways, as pointed out, the Bulky DD set allows Lapras to use its natural bulk to ensure he can nab a boost or two before sweeping, while the normal DD set should only set up on anything it can set up on (which still is a fair amout of opponents).
  17. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Hey there! I talked it over with the other QC members and we want to you remove every set except the Offensive Dragon Dancer set and the Curse set. The other sets have been deemed "unviable" The Rain tank is simply bad. Ice / Water isn't an impressive typing and its outclassed by Vaporeon.
    Defensive Dragon Dance isn't really effective. You're better off using the offensive set (you don't really need all of that bulk) Lapras doesn't have the typing to pull off a subtoxic set and Parafusion set is just outclassed by Lanturn (who boasts a superior typing & Thunder Wave)

    In fact, the only reason why Lapras is getting an OU analysis is due to its ability to use Hydration + Rest, so that needs to be stressed when writing the analysis. The "LapDancer" set looks fine but the Curse set needs a few revisions. We decided to remove Avalanche (its mediocre) and replace it with Toxic/Ice Shard.

    Do all of that and you can consider this stamped.

    Edit: QC APPROVED 1/3
  18. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I personally think the offensive one isn't worth it. Lapras, to put it bluntly, is weak as shit, and making it trying to make it offensive in one turn just isn't happening. You might as well use the bulk (as I've said, you survive being 2HKOed from everything up to Scarf Latios' Thunderbolt) to rack up more DDs so you could actually be more threatening.
  19. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Thanks for all the feedback! All changes have been made, and the removed sets have been removed to OO, as they seem like possiblities (bummer though, really did like the subtoxic... oh well).
  20. PK Gaming

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    I don't know... Defensive DD is extremely weak offensively, and it can't threaten anything with that lower power and horrendous. Its also extremely slow without any speed investment (+1 0 speed Lapras reaches 234 speed after 1 DD and 351 after two... its still outsped by max speed Voltolos) On the other hand, offensive reaches 330 speed after 1 DD and 495 after a second so it has a chance of legitimately sweeping the metagame if it pulls a 2 Dragon Dances. Lapras is naturally bulky so I it can afford to not run any defensive EVs. I think you're underestimating its power, offensive Lapras is pretty strong in rain.
  21. Stagnant

    Stagnant

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    Lapras is one of the few perish trappers and is by far one of the more effective users of it. Hydration only added its effectiveness.

    Name: Perish Song
    move1: Ice Beam / Block
    move2: Rest
    move3: Block
    move4: Perish Song
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Hydration
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Ice Beam gives Lapras some offensive coverage. Ice Beam is prefered to hit Grass-types that think they can threaten Lapras more than she threatens them. Otherwise Protect stalls for turns and help with leftover recovery.
  22. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    I was thinking of adding a Perish Trapper too, but sadly, Block and Hydration are illegal together, and the Rain + Hydration is Lapras' main selling-point for competing in OU.
  23. Bloo

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    There was a QC discussion regarding this analysis, and PK Gaming did a great job of covering everything that was discussed.

    There's one thing that I'd like to say, however. Make the Offensive Dragon Dance the first set listed; it's definitely the most destructive set Lapras can run. Also, Ice Shard shouldn't be listed first in the last slot of the Curse set: Toxic should, since it allows you to beat Jellicent and Quagsire one on one.

    Anyway, I read through this, and there are a lot of things wrong with the content. Let's see:

    Lapras wasn't UU in Gen 4; it was NU.

    Quagsire isn't beating Lapras if it runs Toxic (which is why Toxic should be the main slash, as I said above).

    A boosted Waterfall under rain does more damage than Rock Smash. 60 x 1.5= 90 > 80.

    Thundurus isn't really a counter - it's a check. Counters are supposed to be able to switch in on a move without taking any significant damage. Thundurus doesn't like switching in on Waterfall if rain is play.

    Remove these sentences. Lapras should never use Water Absorb: Hydration + Rest is the only reason lapras is even getting an OU analysis. The moves Lapras can run by using Water Absorb over Hydration don't even offer it any significant coverage.

    No, Hydration isn't what separates Lapras from other bulky Waters. Vaporeon gets Hydration as well. What differentiates Lapras from other bulky Water-types is its ability to use BOOSTING MOVES (Curse / Dragon Dance) + HydrationRest. If Lapras didn't have access to these boosting moves, Hydration Vaporeon would be infinitely better.

    Return isn't really a coverage move; it's actually resisted by Steel, Rock, can't hit Ghost-types, and normal isn't super effective on any type. Return should be described as a way Lapras can hit Pokemon that are resistant to Waterfall, such as Gyarados and Rotom-W.

    Most of Lapras' sets are physical, and without any special attack investment, HP Fighting isn't do squat to Ferrothorn, since it has an excellent Special Defense stat. Even with 252 SpA and a Modest Nature, HP Fighting is only doing 24.4% - 29% to standard Ferrothorn that run Special Defense, and 31.8% - 37.5% vs 252/0 neutral natured ones.

    Attract isn't a competitive move and should never be used in serious competitive play; remove the mention.

    This shouldn't really be mentioned either. These moves are banned from standard play and these analyses are supposed to be competitive - Sheer Cold, Horn Drill, and Fissure aren't competitive moves. Remove the mention.

    Exactly, Life Orb is much better. Expert Belt shouldn't even be mentioned anywhere; it's not like Lapras will be hitting much super effectively with just Waterfall and Return / Ice Shard, thus making Expert Belt useless.

    Dual Screens don't help Lapras "stay around for a very long time" - they help him set-up Dragon Dance better. Dual Screens only last for a limited amount of turns!

    Fix all of the above; once you do, I'll approve this.
  24. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Did you see the EV spread? It had max Speed (Which you are outspeeding Voltlos). It is weak offensively after 1 DD, and of course it should be. The point is to accumulate multiple Dragon Dances before sweeping. It's like trying to compare Calm Mind to Tail Glow Manaphy.
  25. PK Gaming

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    Nope I assumed he used max hp & max def which I had to right to. What the hell is the point of running defensive Lapras with speed? It baffles the mind, if you were going to run speed you might as well run attack EVs. Defensive Lapras is trying to do too many things at once and it fails miserably at all of them. Also, Calm Mind Manaphy & Tail Glow Manaphy had their separate pros & cons, while defensive DD is just plain worse than offensive DD (especially when you're running max speed on it...)

    I'm sorry but no, I won't accept that set.

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