1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Latias (QC 3/3) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Laga, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    [​IMG]
    I miss my Soul Dew ;_;
    Skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    • First look, outclassed by Creselia
    • Reason to use is speed and extra offense.
    • and Tailwind.
    • Faces competition from Latios as offensive Pokemon.
    [SET]
    name: Tailwind Support
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Helping Hand
    move 4: Protect / Psyshock
    item: Sitrus Berry / Haban Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This set acts as a bulky, fast speed controller.
    • Tailwind will boost your team's speed for a few turns to wreck everything.
    • Draco Meteor can OHKO notable threats such as Chomp and Mence, and though Dragon Pulse could be used, it won't quite be enough to KO the above.
    • Helping Hand is very important for supporting teammates after setting the Tailwind.
    • Protect is Protect.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Spread will exploit the fantastic base 110 speed tier that Latias has to have an easier time getting up Tailwind before going down.
    • Dragon Pulse is more consistent in chipping away at health, but you should usually resort to firing off a Draco Meteor and then either switching or supporting teammates with Helping Hand.
    • Sitrus Berry is the preferred item for longetivity, but Haban Berry will help it survive Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios.
    • An alternate spread would be a purely defensive set with 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold, but the role that it plays is usually be done better by Cresselia.
    • Psychic for OHKO on Breloom.
    • Roost for longetivity.
    • Great teammates are pokemon that like Tailwind such as Heracross, Rotom-W, Victini.
    • Special mention here for Ground-types; Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine all benefit from Tailwind, and can freely spam Earthquake when sided by Latias.
    • Steel-types resist the types that Latias are weak to (Dragon, Bug, Ghost, Dark, and Ice) and make good partners, as they can switch into said moves
    • Fits well on teams that need a rain and/or sun check.

    [Other Options]
    • A lot of other options :eek:
    • Heal Pulse for more support.
    • Safeguard.
    • Dual Screens is an optioin for bulky teams.
    • Dragon Gem is an option for OHKOing Pokemon such as Kyurem, Breloom, and Thundurus with Draco Meteor.
    • An offensive set could potentially work, but is usually outclassed by her brother Latios.
    • Offensive or not, Latias could still use Hidden Power Fire for Steel-types.
    • Yache Berry is a possible choice for the moveslot, as it lets it brush off even STAB Ice-type moves with ease.
    • Mist Ball could work like a Snarl that actually does damage; but it unfortunately only hits one Pokemon at a time.
    • Swagger if you are a bitch, or for SwaggerLum.
    • Psycho Shift is useful to counter status; most notably paralysis.
    • Magic Coat for Taunt
    • Thunder Wave
    • Sunny Day can be used to counter Rain and Sand teams.
    • Role Play
    • Grass Knot or Energy Ball
    • Thunder or Thunderbolt

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Trick Room setters can undermine Latias's speed control.
    • Steel types like Metagross, Bisharp, Heatran can wall it.
    • Bug types such as Scizor, Escavalier, Volcarona, and Heracross will be able to OHKO or 2HKO it; Volcarona can even set up Quiver Dance against it.
    • Bulky Dark-types such as Tyranitar and Scrafty.
    • Tornadus with Taunt and powerful Acrobatics.
    • Hail teams with Blizzard are going to hit it hard.
    • Thundurus has Taunt and Thunder Wave, both putting a thorn in the side for Tailwind.
    • Latios can KO it with Draco Meteor if it wins the Speed tie and if not running Haban Berry.
    • Weavile has dat dual STAB super effectiveness y'know wut i'm sayin
    • Chandelure can live a DM and either set up Trick Room and/or kill it with Shadow Ball.
    • Sableye bcuz Taunt

    [Overview]

    <p>Latias is outclassed in most roles that it can perform in Doubles due to the omnipresent Psychic-types, Cresselia and Latios. Cresselia usually pulls off a support role better courtesy of its mind boggling bulk, something Latias can only dream of rivaling. Latios, on the other hand, largely outclasses Latias as an offensive Pokemon, due to its higher Special Attack stat. That said, thanks to its good bulk, useful resistances to common attacking types&mdash;Water, Fire, Electric, and Fighting&mdash;and Speed, Latias is one of the best Tailwind setters in the metagame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Speedy Support
    move 1: Tailwind / Thunder Wave
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Helping Hand
    move 4: Protect / Psyshock
    item: Sitrus Berry / Haban Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Latias pieces together all of its positive traits to make the most out of itself as a fast supporter in the Doubles metagame. Tailwind is a fantastic support move, helping your team wreak havoc throughout the four turns that it lasts without fear of getting outpaced, but Thunder Wave is a perfectly viable alternative that permanently affects a Pokemon on the opponent's team's Speed. Draco Meteor might seem odd on a support Pokemon, and Dragon Pulse looks a bit more appealing on paper, but Draco Meteor provides fantastic utility by being able to OHKO many popular Dragon-types in Doubles and makes sure Latias can perform an alternative role as opposed to just being a fully support-oriented Pokemon.</p>

    <p>To show the benefit of using Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse, here are some important damage calculations:</p>

    <ul="damage_calculation">
    <li>Draco Meteor vs. 4 / 0 Salamence: 119.27 - 140.96%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs. 4 / 0 Hydreigon: 109.2 - 129.44%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs. 4 / 0 Garchomp: 104.46 - 124.02%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs. 0 / 4 Latios: 100.33 - 118.27%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The third slot is another move that prevents Latias from becoming dead weight after using Tailwind or Draco Meteor. Helping Hand is extremely useful, as it can boost Latias's teammates' moves after Tailwind has been set up, helping it fill the role of a supporter more effectively. Protect is very useful in the last slot for playing mindgames and is a general staple on many Pokemon in Doubles, but because Latias is as bulky as it is, Protect is not nearly as necessary as it would be on an offensive Pokemon. Psyshock is another viable option, as it hits common Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Breloom for solid damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given spread allows Latias to use its amazing Speed tier to outpace key threats such as Terrakion, Salamence, and Garchomp. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD might look appealing for additional bulk, but Latias's Speed is what really sets it apart from Cresselia, and it is much harder to set Tailwind or use Thunder Wave if Latias is slow. Sitrus Berry is the main item, as it helps with Latias's overall longevity, but Haban Berry helps it deal with opposing Dragon-types much more effectively, as it can survive any Dragon-type attack and retaliate by either setting up Tailwind or hitting back hard with a Draco Meteor. Dragon Pulse could work over Draco Meteor, but it misses out on the important OHKOs listed above. Psychic is an option to hit Pokemon such as Breloom and Landorus-T for more damage, but Psyshock hits most Pokemon harder due to the metagame being more specially defensive in general.</p>

    <p>First and foremost when it comes to picking teammates, know that anything with middling to high Speed appreciates the speed control support from Latias. Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Heracross, and Victini are all good Pokemon to use on Tailwind teams and should therefore be considered for use alongside Latias. Even more notable Pokemon under this category are Ground-types that benefit from Tailwind. Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Mamoswine are all fantastic teammates, as they can freely use Earthquake due to Latias's immunity to it. Steel-types synergize extremely well with Latias, as they resist attacks that hit Latias for super effective damage, so Pokemon such as Scizor and Metagross are good teammates as well. Finally, teams weak to sun and rain appreciate the presence of Latias, as its presence alone will be a thorn in the side of those archetypes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>If you could describe Latias's movepool with a single word, it would be 'colossal'. That said, even with plenty of attacking and supportive options, there are few if any combinations Latias can use as effectively as the moves listed on the main set. There are two item options worth mentioning though: Yache Berry and Dragon Gem. Yache Berry is fairly self-explanatory; it helps Latias in countering Blizzard teams and taking Ice-type attacks comfortably in general. Dragon Gem, on the other hand, seems like complete madness, but because Latias secures OHKOs on Breloom, Kyurem-B, and Chandelure with it, it is a perfectly viable option if you wish to fling an extra hard-hitting Draco Meteor in your opponent's direction.</p>

    <p>As Latias is first and foremost a supporter, additional moves that help it support naturally get the first mentions. Icy Wind can be used as a different form of speed control, but it is often better used by more bulky Pokemon such as Cresselia. Heal Pulse is an interesting option that lets Latias heal a teammate, but should be used with caution; it will hit the opponent if your teammate goes down. Safeguard also deserves a mention, as it prevents the opponent from repeatedly using Thunder Wave, which is usually one of Tailwind's worst enemies. Reflect and Light Screen seem great for Latias on paper, but it is no Cresselia, and therefore has a hard time setting said screens up. Sunny Day and Rain Dance are options to help either support your weather team or disrupt problematic opposing weather teams. Role Play can also help perform this, as well as copying useful abilities such as Intimidate, but it is generally hard to consistently use effectively due to the move's gimmicky nature. Magic Coat is useful for bouncing back Taunt and Thunder Wave, but it is very situational. Swagger can be used in tandem with a teammate carrying a Lum Berry to boost its Attack for free; it can also be used to disrupt the opposition, but relying on coin flips is usually a terrible idea.</p>

    <p>Latias can also pack a punch, so a fully offensive spread with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and a Timid nature is viable due to Latias having more bulk than Latios. The main moves for this set would be Draco Meteor, Psyshock, Hidden Power Fire, and Protect. Thunderbolt and Thunder could also be used to hit many bulky Water-types hard, and Grass Knot and Energy Ball could do the same against different Water-types. You could also opt to use Psychic over Psyshock, but because most Pokemon in Doubles invest in Special Defense rather than Defense, Psyshock hits most targets harder. Finally, Latias's humongous list of other options ends with a rather peculiar option: Mist Ball. This move works as a STAB move and a pseudo-Snarl at the same time, but Psyshock is a more consistent STAB Psychic-type attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types, such as Metagross and Bisharp, have no trouble walling Latias's attacks and can do a good amount of damage in return. Bug-types, such as Heracross, Genesect, and Scizor, can easily KO it with their STAB moves, and in Volcarona's case, even set up on Latias. Thundurus and Tornadus are problematic if Latias needs to set up Tailwind, as they can both Taunt it, the latter also being able to deal a big number with Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics. Another huge problem for Latias is bulky or fast Dark-types, such as Tyranitar and Weavile, as they can take it out with a STAB move of choice. Most Trick Room setters can both wall Latias and undermine its speed control, especially bulky setters such as Cresselia and Dusclops. Chandelure succeeds in both setting up Trick Room and dealing super effective damage, making it one of the big thorns in Latias's side. Latios will win against Latias if it gets lucky; it needs to win the Speed tie and hope that Latias doesn't carry Haban Berry, but if the situation is so, Latias gets OHKOed easily by Draco Meteor, boosted or not. Finally, Sableye is a Pokemon that will make Latias rip its (non-existent) hair out, due to its ability to shut Latias down with Taunt and burn the potential physical attackers standing at its side.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  2. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Why are you not running full Speed on Latias? That's probably the main draw of using it. Suicune is a better bulky TW setter, while Togekiss gets HH and Tailwind. Only Latias gets 110 speed.
  3. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    look at AC ¬_¬ unless you can covince me that it needs to outspeed something else, I will keep the spread.
  4. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Why wouldn't you want to at least speed tie with Latios? Also, beating Terrakion and down is always a plus in Speed. No sense wasting it when a bulky set is utterly outclassed by Cresselia. Don't waste Latias' excellent Speed tier.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    I agree with BlankZero - 110 base Speed is a MAJOR asset in Doubles. With 350 Speed, you have a 50% chance to win the speed tie and OHKO Latios with DM. I also don't support being slower than Terrakion, which can Rock Slide flinch you (lol even Beat Up + Rock Slide would beat Latias ;x). Being fast is also important to get Tailwind up safely before being knocked out by opponent's assaults.

    Max HP / Max Spe plz.
  6. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,474
    i think i'll jump on the bandwagon here about 252 hp. with haban (needs to be only item choice imo, living dmeteors is too good to pass up), you already live DM's, so...

    latias doesn't really need protect. it's nice, but it doesn't explicitly require it. you can slash in psyshock or another support move there (the next best i can think of is safeguard). mention how psychic can much more easily ohko breloom in ac, as always, though i suppose dm can ohko it sometimes. speaking of dm vs loom, you should add the extra 4 evs to spa since it improves your chances of an ohko. i think roost/recover is worth mentioning in ac as well to go over protect for reasons i hope are obvious.

    stuff for oo: hp fire, mist ball (can act as a snarl sometimes), swagger, coverage moves like hp fire, thunderbolt and grass knot, thunder wave, role play (think role play+spinda :3 also how does it not get skill swap), sunny day, and magic coat.

    c/c: bisharp, tyranitar, genies with taunt (they outspeed naturally), scrafty (maybe just dark types in general but ttar/scrafty need special mentions), heatran? trick room fucks up its speed control and scizor/escavalier.
  7. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    941
    ctrl + f offensive
    no results fount for main sets


    offensive set plz if cress can run one so can latias. offensive latias is pretty good to, used to run it a lot. bulker then latios and has surprise value.
    BlankZero likes this.
  8. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    I would like to see some agreement for offensive Latias.

    I personally think that it is 100% outclassed by Latios in every way.

    Offensive Cress is a set because it is a bulky ass piece of shit, and will damage you slowly as it takes all the hits. And because it is not outclassed by Latios.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    I am iffy about Icy Wind slash on Latias. It's like asking to be raped by Bisharp. It's bulky, but it's certainly no Cresselia, who can sit on its fat ass and spam Icy Wind all game. Thunder Wave sounds more appealing than Icy Wind tbh.

    I am indifferent about an offensive set atm. I personally would use Latios for an offensive set. I only used an offensive Latias set in Doubles UU, because Latios was OU. However, Latias do share the same base Special Attack as Salamence, and with much higher Speed to work, too. Even if it's outclassed by Latios, it's certainly not a bad set on Latias.
  10. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    Alright, I updated the OP with most of the changes suggested (no offensive set, I really refuse to believe that it should be an on-site set) and I really would like to write this soon :)
  11. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,869
    Ok, here's some stuff:
    • Mention how bugs like Scizor + Volcarona + Heracross can mess this up. Volcarona can easily set up a QD too and then proceed to wreck
    • Get rid of Cresselia part in C&C, Icy Wind isn't doing that much damage and otherwise isn't too big. Rephrase it to include other TR setters and say how TR is a counter to Tailwind since it makes Tailwind useless
    • Say how Blizzard users like Abomasnow + Rotom-F can heavily damage it.
    • Mention Thundurus in C&C. Has Taunt, can cripple w/ T-Wave, and bulky Thundurus can probably shrug off a D-Meteor
    • Add Roost in AC like lucariojr said
    • Add Healing Wish + Psycho Shift + Safeguard w/e lucariojr told you to add in OO
    • Get rid of Reflect Type, not worth mentioning since you don't even need it to bypass stuff like in Singles and is much harder to pull off
    • Say how it fits well on teams that need a rain/sun check
    • This one is kinda iffy but dgem could be cool to fire off 1 high-powered dmeteor
    • Give some examples for partners in your ac for tailwind set (heracross, garchomp, etc.)
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    I agree with everything Audiosurfer said. Rephrase Cresselia in C&C, stating how it can undermine Latias's speed control support with Trick Room or Thunder Wave.

    As lucariojr said in an earlier check, AC mention Psychic for a guarantee OHKO on Breloom.

    Add Thunder Wave, Role Play, Grass Knot / Energy Ball (for Gastrodon / Rotom-W), and Thunder(bolt) (for bulky Water-types) to OO
  13. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    Alright, I am fairly certain I got all of the points up there except Dragon Gem, as I strongly disagree with this item. I am not going to add Dragon Gem unless you guys provide some relevant damage calculations; Sitrus Berry and Haban Berry are extremely useful for Latias to carry. Besides, Draco Meteor already kills what it needs to:

    4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 306-360 (101.32 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 374-444 (104.46 - 124.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 356-422 (109.2 - 129.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    4 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 396-468 (119.27 - 140.96%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  14. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,869
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 297-349 (99.33 - 116.72%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO (same w/ tornadus)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 268-316 (95.03 - 112.05%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 372-438 (141.98 - 167.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO (becomes guaranteed)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 536-632 (137.08 - 161.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO (up from 50% chance)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 536-632 (118.06 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (doesn't ohko w/o it)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 297-349 (99.33 - 116.72%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO (2hko otherwise)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 267-315 (102.29 - 120.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO (2hko otherwise)
    4 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 297-349 (93.1 - 109.4%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO (from no chance otherwise)

    these are just from the top of my head and only counting ohkos (so im sure there are some 2HKOs and such that im not considering). so yeah give it a mention pls
  15. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    Alright fine.

    Now gimme my stamps Thank you for confirming the viability of Dragon Gem; I have implemented it as an Other Option.
  16. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,869
    This looks good despite your poor manners. Fix psycho shift mention tho, it shifts status, not stat drops
    QC 1/3
  17. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    lol just a joke mate ;p

    changed Psycho Shift, I was thinking about Heart Stamp or something, which it doesn't even get o_O
  18. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime Sadly, the real world isn't the same as a fairy tale.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Doubles Queen

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,233
    who the hell uses 0/0 Thundurus when it's main selling point is being bulky as fuck
  19. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,869
    Offensive Thundurus is an onsite set so not sure what the problem is with calcing it @Mizuhime (its even listed before bulky Support so not sure where your comment is coming from)
    Nollan and Pocket like this.
  20. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    895
    Overview
    • Yeah, you got everything there is to be said in there, nothing to add
    "Tailwind Support" Comments
    • "Protect is Protect." Well yeah that's nice, but aren't you gonna explain Psyshock for us too? Like how if you really dedicate your efforts you can 2HKO Hitmontop with it?
    "Tailwind Support" Additional Comments
    • Yache Berry is another item option worth mentioning here, allowing you to survive Ice-type attacks from Mizuhime's Kyurem Hail teams easier
    • As for teammates, Garchomp is a bit contradictory. Things like Mamoswine, for example, fit better alongside it in Tailwind, and Levitate additionally allows Mamoswine to spam EQ freely alongside Latias; anything else with middling speed (Rotom-W, Chandelure, etc) will also enjoy Tailwind support from it; it is fairly flexible when it comes to teammates
    Other Options
    • Not much to add, good work here; however, Mental Herb is probably worth a mention, just to laugh off Prankster Taunts so you can get Tailwind up
    Checks & Counters
    • Weavile, especially those with Focus Sash (which is almost all of them), can outspeed you and proceed to dish out damage with Ice Punch/Night Slash/Beat Up, and can also use Fake Out (I guess they can also use Taunt, not sure why anyone would logically run that though)
    • When you mention Hail teams, specify how dangerous Kyurem, especially Scarfed variants, can be
    • Chandelure is a big one, non-Scarf variants can live a Draco Meteor, and proceed to set Trick Room; Scarf variants outspeed you and can deal heavy damage with Shadow Ball
    • Sableye cannot even be 2HKOd by an unboosted 4 SpA Draco Meteor (assuming the typical 252/252+ spread; with Dragon Gem it will not OHKO either), and can proceed to shut you down with Taunt, and burn your physical attackers in its spare time

    Since this place seems to be pretty dead, and the analysis looks more or less efficient (do those changes though :p), I'll give you the go ahead:

    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVAL 2/3
  21. rdjacobian

    rdjacobian

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    sub cm dpulse recover with good bulk and fairly decent speed. if you aren't stoopid its a very underrated yet very good way to deal with stoopid rain
  22. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    999
    Implemented your checks @Nollan :)
    also,
    Do you even Doubles?
  23. rdjacobian

    rdjacobian

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    EDIT:Wait you're serious lol...
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  24. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    895
    I'm going for Laga's side (this has nothing to do with making up for past wrongs) on this. Latias may have bulk, but even +1, you aren't going to tank physical hits like Sucker Punch at all, not to mention Ice-, Dragon-, Ghost- and Bug-type attacks.

    Also, would you like to put forth a few games as examples?
  25. rdjacobian

    rdjacobian

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)