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Latias (Revamp - GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shrang, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Yeah, that sounds reasonable enough.
  2. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Yeah, with the EV spread change I really have no qualms with this. You could also mention Dragon Pulse as a slash after Draco Meteor on dual screens if you need consistent damage, but it's not like you'll be doing major damage either way.

    QC Approved (1/3)
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Harsha and Colonel_M are new OU QC members, for those who don't know!

    Include this plz for defensive CM and Checks and Counters. The defensive Calm Mind fares worse against Special Sweepers than balanced, because it invests the same amount of special defensiveness, but lacks the Speed to cushion the special hits with CM due to its low Speed.

    QC Approved (2/3)
  4. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Looks solid aside from the EV spread suggestion in Offensive, but I won't bicker with it.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  5. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Thanks for the approvals, everyone. Pretty much everything noted has been put in in some way or another. I'll write this up soon-ish.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    It's a trend that I've been seeing lately, but Scarf Latias with Healing Wish has been thrown around, and it's actually quite effective (kind of like a last-ditch Tailwind from Prankster Tornadus if you will). I think it's worth an OO mention.
  7. Iconic

    Iconic
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    i have a few issues with this skeleton. psyshock shouldn't really be a slash on the first set at all, much less the first option. you're better off using sub on the spore and then cleanly 2hkoing breloom with dragon pulse rather than going for the high damage roll. you counter infernape and virizion just fine with dragon pulse. i guess latias misses it against terrakion, but really latias should not be your answer to terrakion lol. mr. GS reminded me that secret sword means keldeo will beat latias in a cm war, which is possibly reason enough to use it, but still not reason enough for it to be the first attack (especially considering scarf and specs are far more ubiquitous)

    in fact you can just merge the balanced set with the defensive calm mind set and just name it "calm mind" to reduce clutter. in my opinion the first set should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind (balanced is a bad name lol)
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    substitute is probably the best move overall on latias because it lets you beat ferrothorn 1 on 1, scout incoming pokes, block breloom's spore, and lots of other goodies. you could then have a paragraph devoted to the bold + 252 hp / 228 def / 28 spe spread, and then maybe even another paragraph (or merge them) for other options in the last slot: reflect, psyshock, reflect type, twave, etc.

    just my 2 Sense
  8. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Alright, I've updated the OP. I have deliberately not written the physically defensive Calm Mind set or Other Options yet, since I am still waiting on the rest of QC to decide what we're doing with the proposed Calm Mind set merges (according to Iconic's post above). What happens with the proposed merge will decide how I proceed, but I've written everything else. My general plan is if 1) the merge goes ahead, then I'll heavily expand the first Calm Mind set with mentions of the physically defensive spread, offensive Colbur Berry variant in AC, as well as all her movepool options (which are MANY), leading to a mega-ish Calm Mind analysis; or 2) if we keep the physically defensive set, then I'll move Colbur Berry into the first set and write physically defensive like usual.
  9. Alexander.

    Alexander.

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    How about of Refresh in OO for Calm Mind Set? It's very useful against stall team in general, specially to beat Blissey / Chansey in 1v1.
  10. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Okay, I'm done writing this analysis. QC had a discussion, and thought the merging of Calm Mind sets was the way to go, so the physically defensive set is now pretty much one massive paragraph in the Calm Mind set.

    This is ready for GP checks.
  11. shadowxevo

    shadowxevo

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    Extremely small nitpick, but I believe that Recover should be changed to Roost in the sets that use it; the reasoning behind this is because no Pokemon that has Roost has Imprison. Imprison prevents the opponent from using moves that the user has as well.

    Now, this may seem irrelevant, because, come on now, no one uses Imprison... But no one uses Sound Proof either, but everyone still makes a big deal of running Whirlwind over Roar.
  12. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Swoobat and Kyurem have Imprison and Roost. Also, people use Whirlwind>Roar because Mr.Mime is a fag in baton pass chains, but that is irrelavent.
  13. GatoDelFuego

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    Amcheck
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    [Overview]

    <p>Since Latias was unbanned in Black and White, her performance on usage stats has generally been lower than what it should be. It is not hard to see why, however, since her brother Latios and newcomer Hydreigon are the general go-to Pokemon for "powerful special attacking Dragon-type". What a lot of people overlook is Latias's higher defenses, which allow her to play a more supportive role. With new threats such as Thundurus-T and Keldeo being introduced in Black and White 2, Latias is one of the few Pokemon that can take them while remaining an offensive threat in the long run. Her resistances to common attacking types, namely Water, Electric, Grass, Fire, Psychic, and Fighting, as well as an excellent Ground immunity allows her to switch in easily and put a stop to many potential threats. When her counters are removed, she can easily sweep late game. However, her problems do exist. Her Psychic typing, which grants her the excellent Fighting resistance, is a double-edged sword, as it makes her highly vulnerable to Pursuit. Her inability to hurt common Spikers such as Ferrothorn outside of weak Hidden Powers make her a big target for Spike-stacking teams as well. Still, as long as you play Latias carefully, there will generally be a place for her on virtually any team.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire / Psyshock
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is probably the one that takes full advantage of Latias's fabulous qualities. Her respectable Special Attack, base 110 Speed, and fantastic Special Defense allows her to switch in repeatedly over the course of a match to either take hard hits or to set up for a sweep. She is probably the only Pokemon in OU that can check all of Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, Infernape, Thundurus-T, and as well as a variety of sun and rain sweepers at the same time, all the while remaining a long term offensive threat. One thing to always remember is that Latias is not a Pokemon that you would pull out and immediately try to sweep with, but is to used to defend against the aforementioned threats and only attempt to sweep when all her counters have been eliminated. Unlike Latios, who specializes in immediate firepower, Latias is better known for her role as a supporting sweeper. Calm Mind and Recover allow Latias to switch in constantly into many threats while boosting her Special Attack as well as her already massive Special Defense repeatedly. Dragon Pulse is her main STAB attack. The last move is extremely variable, and depends on what role Latias is playing in the team and what kind of EV spread she is running.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind Latias is one of those sets that can have all sorts of variation, depending on what role she is playing on the team. The set shown above presents the most balanced option. The EV spread used allows Latias to take two Choice Specs-boosted Icy Winds from Keldeo after Stealth Rock damage, while maintaining maximum speed to outspeed all the Pokemon in the base 108 range. Substitute is the preferred option in the last slot, not only to avoid status and Leech Seed, but to protect herself from Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Scizor. It also gives her a layer of protection against Choice Scarf Genesect, as well as potentially stalling out Gyro Ball PP from Ferrothorn, allowing her to set up with impunity. Hidden Power Fire allows Latias to deal a lot of damage to both Scizor and Genesect, who both give her a lot of trouble. Be aware that the imperfect IV used for Hidden Power Fire would mean she can no longer speed-tie with Pokemon that sit on 110 base speed. Psyshock, on the other hand, allows Latias to deal with Fighting-types, especially Keldeo, more easily. While Latias has no problem against Choice-locked Keldeo, she may run into problems against Calm Mind Keldeo if she does not run Psyshock, as Secret Sword bypasses Latias's special bulk, and will be able to take her down if Keldeo has obtained enough boosts.</p>

    <p>Latias can also use a more defensive pathway. With an EV spread of 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe and a Bold nature, she can take Fighting-types a lot better, especially against Breloom and Choice Band Terrakion. The EV spread allows her to outspeed max speed Pokemon with a base 70 speed using a positive nature, for example Timid Politoed and Jolly Breloom. If you do decide to use this spread, decent options in the last slot are generally support moves options. Reflect allows Latias to cushion Pursuit, as well as potentially setting up on Tyranitar that do not use Crunch and do not invest much in Attack. Substitute is again, a very good option on physically defensive Calm Mind Latias, as well as Roar to force out setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Reuniclus. Refresh is another option, as it allows Latias to heal status such as burns from switching into Scald, as well as allowing her to set up on Blissey and Chansey much more easily. However, since it can't being unable to block Leech Seed, (RC) while not giving her Pursuit and U-turn protection generally makes Refresh an inferior option to Substitute. The main reason that such a spread is not as recommended as the primary spread shown above is because Latias is generally too slow with this spread. The metagame has many fast threats that Latias desperately wants to outspeed in order to defeat them, such as Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Keldeo, and Sheer Force Landorus.</p>

    <p>The other way to run Calm Mind Latias is to run a fully offensive set. With an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, a Timid nature and a moveset of Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire / Grass Knot can be used. While this may be completely outclassed by Latios, this set really shines when used in tandem with her brother. There are two ways to use such a set. One is to use Latios to severely weaken Latias's counters so Latias can roll through later, or to equip a Colbur Berry on Latias, allowing her to deal major damage to Latios's counters, namely Tyranitar, Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Scizor. This would allow Latios to follow up and sweep unimpeded. Obviously, there are downsides to such a setup, since both Latias and Latios share the same typing and very similar stats, making your team doubly weak to whatever counters both Latias and Latios.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is definitely Latias's worst enemy, generally coming from either Tyranitar or Scizor. Even with Substitute, it is generally difficult to avoid getting Latias trapped consistently, since prediction does go both ways. This is why Fighting-types are excellent teammates to use alongside Latias to set up on Pursuit users. Lucario, Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Infernape, Virizion, and Conkeldurr are all excellent contenders. Intimidate users are also good, as well as physically defensive setup sweepers and Steel-types, such as Gyarados, Landorus-T, Salamence, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Scizor. In exchange, Latias's resists most of their weaknesses and tanks special hits without much trouble at all.</p>

    <p>Other Pokemon that give Latias trouble are bulky Steel-types, as well as Blissey and Chansey. The aforementioned Scizor is already one threat, but BW2 decided to introduce Scizor on steroids&mdashGenesect. Fortunately, it cannot Pursuit Latias, but its fast U-turns will always cause headaches for any team. Ferrothorn is next biggest culprit, as it takes little from any of Latias's moves, even Hidden Power Fire if it is raining, and can respond with Leech Seed and Gyro Ball while setting up hazards at will. If Latias has Substitute, she can, with good prediction, PP stall out Gyro Ball and set up in Ferrothorn's face, but is a rather risky play all the same. Specially defensive Jirachi takes very little from Latias's attacks and can use Body Slam to paralyze her, (RC) while taking her out with Iron Head. If Latias lacks Surf, Heatran also resists most of her options, while being able to phaze her with Roar or cripple her with Toxic. For this reason, Dugtrio and Magnezone are good teammates to Latias to trap and remove the Steel-types that most trouble her and her team. Dugtrio can OHKO Heatran and heavily damage Jirachi, as well as taking out Tyranitar. Magnezone, on the other hand, can trap and OHKO Scizor and Skarmory, and as long as it avoids Leech Seed or Thunder Wave, it can trap and set up on Ferrothorn using Substitute and Charge Beam. Since many of these bulky Steel-types pack entry hazards, Rapid Spin users are also good teammates. Tentacruel is a Rapid Spin user that synergizes well with Latias, as it resists Latias's Ice-type and Bug-type weakness, while Latias resists all of Tentacruel's weaknesses. Forretress also synergizes well with Latias due to being able to resist physical Dragon-type attacks, as well as U-turn and Crunch. Other decent Rapid Spin users include Donphan, Starmie, and Sandslash, if you are using Latias on a sand team. As for Blissey and Chansey, the aforementioned physical attackers can easily set up on them.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunder
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Recover / Trick / Dragon Pulse
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set may seem more suited for Latios, which sports a much higher Special Attack. However, Latias's higher bulk allows her to come into play more often and dish out powerful hits. While Latios is a powerful wallbreaker, Latias is more of an offensive pivot and special tank. Even without investing in Special Defense, Latias is still bulky enough to take special attacks without much fear. She can easily take a Hidden Power Ice from Life Orb Thundurus-T and OHKO with Draco Meteor. One common complaint is that Latias is too weak initially, needing at least two Calm Minds to hit relatively hard. However, with maximum investment to Special Attack and holding a Life Orb or Choice Specs, Latias is still extremely powerful. Do not forget that it was her Choice Specs set that got her banned in DPP&mdashDraco Meteor smashes everything that does not resist it. Psyshock is the preferred move in the second slot as it KOs Fighting-types, most notably Keldeo. However, if you are using a rain team, Thunder is a very powerful alternative, as it does a lot of damage to bulky Water-types and many Steel-types as well as still doing heaps of damage to Keldeo without having to resort to Psyshock. It also carries a 30% paralysis rate. Surf is the generally the best coverage move in the third slot which gets pseudo-STAB in the rain, as well as letting Latias KO Landorus without having to resort to Draco Meteor. However, Hidden Power Fire is perfectly acceptable because as it lets Latias OHKO Genesect and Scizor when it's not raining, as well as and allows Latias to deal lots of damage to Ferrothorn. It works even better if you are using a sun team, since it gets a boost in the sun.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is generally the preferred item since it allows her to switch attacks and use Recover to stick around for longer. However, the extra power that Choice Specs brings is hard to ignore. For example, with Choice Specs equipped, Latias has a very high chance of OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale with Draco Meteor, as well as OHKOing Conkeldurr. It also allows Latias to cripple walls with Trick.</p>

    <p>The last moveslot should depend on what item Latias is equipped with. Recover is Latias's best option if Life Orb is used, since it would allow her to switch in repeatedly and recover lost health. Trick is the preferred move if Choice Specs is equipped for Latias to cripple walls with. If neither of the moves appeal to you, Dragon Pulse can be used as a reliable Dragon-type STAB attack. In terms of other coverage moves, Thunderbolt can be used if you don't find Thunder reliable enough, while Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hurt Tyranitar with.</p>

    <p>The EV spread used is just a simple 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread, with a Timid nature to outspeed all the Fighting-types that sit on base 108 Speed, as well as Thundurus-T, Landorus, and all the Pokemon on base 100 Speed, while hitting as hard as possible. Max Speed and a Timid nature are essential to outpace all those threatening Pokemon, but Latias can slide some her Special Attack into HP depending on how bulky you want her, all the way up to a spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar, Scizor, and Genesect, (RC) still cause huge problems for Latias, especially after a Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor, although Scizor and Genesect need to watch out for Hidden Power Fire as well as rain boosted Surf and Thunder. Specially defensive Steel-types such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn (especially in the rain) can give Latias trouble as well. Chansey can take Psyshock all day and stall Latias out, but must watch out for Trick. Garchomp is an excellent Pokemon to take on all of the aforementioned threats, especially Jirachi. Other physical attackers that can take out Chansey and most of Latias's threats include Landorus-T, Terrakion, and Gyarados. Heatran is also a good Pokemon to switch into the aforementioned Steel-types. Magnezone is good at trapping Ferrothorn with Substitute and Charge Beam, while Dugtrio does a better job at trapping and dealing heavy damage to Jirachi. Since many bulky Steel-types in OU carry entry hazards, Rapid Spin users are always welcome on a team with Latias, including and these include Tentacruel, Forretress, Starmie, Donphan, and Sandslash.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Healing Wish
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Light Clay
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Latias's natural bulk and speed make her a solid Dual Screen user. While some people may again question why not use Latios due to his ability to soften blows further with Memento, Healing Wish differentiates Latias from her twin brother. With Healing Wish, Latias can sacrifice herself to bring back a crippled sweeper to give it a second chance at sweeping. As long as you don't end up getting said sweeper KOed, you can usually attempt a sweep earlier in the game with one sweeper, hopefully crippling or KOing its counter. Later in the game, Latias can set up Reflect and Light Screen, (RC) and then sacrifice herself so that same sweeper can rampage through the opposing team unhindered. Essentially, Latias is a faster, slightly less bulky version of Cresselia, but unlike Cresselia, Latias has a bunch of very nice resistances, as well as offenses that can hit hard enough. Apart from the three compulsory moves (Reflect, Light Screen, and Healing Wish), Draco Meteor is probably the best fit in the last slot so that Latias is not utter setup fodder. Even without investment, the move is powerful enough to deter frailer setup sweepers from setting up on Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Apart from Draco Meteor, Latias has a number of options she can run in the last slot. Roar can be used to prevent setup, while Wish can be used to give a sweeper a relatively safe switch-in if you are not up to sacrificing Latias at the time. Thunder Wave can also be used to cripple potential revenge killers, or even giving your sweeper an easier time in setting up with potential paralysis hax.</p>

    <p>Good teammates to Dual Screens Latias fall into two categories: sweepers and Pokemon that can take full advantage of Dual Screens and Healing Wish, and Pokemon that synergize well with Latias in general. Swords Dance Terrakion, Garchomp, Lucario, Breloom, Dragon Dance Salamence, Dragonite, and Gyarados, as well Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, (AC) and Volcarona are all excellent recipients of Dual Screens and Healing Wish. Shell Smash passers are also extremely deadly with Healing Wish support. When something like Gorebyss pulls off a successful Shell Smash pass, skilled opponents would generally be able to stop the recipient in some way or another, leaving Gorebyss too damaged to be able to Baton Pass another set of Shell Smash boosts. However, with Dual Screens and Healing Wish bringing Gorebyss back up to full health, it is a lot easier to pass off a second set off boosts to another sweeper that can easily finish off the opponent's weakened team. General Pokemon that work well with Latias are Pokemon that can switch into her weaknesses, especially Pursuit. Heatran pretty much synergizes perfectly with Latias, while Fighting-types are generally first on call when it comes to switching into Pursuit.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Latias can run a pure support set with Wish and Roar, but her relatively low HP stat means she's generally outclassed in such a set by Blissey, Chansey, Jirachi, and Vaporeon. Latias can also barely use a Choice Scarf set, but is largely outclassed by Latios, who boasts higher firepower required for revenge killing various Pokemon. If Latias is to use a Choice Scarf, it is a good idea to use Healing Wish on it to differentiate herself from Latios, allowing her to pull of a fast revival of a crippled teammate. Latias can run a very gimmicky physical set with Hone Claws / Outrage / Earthquake / Sucker Punch, but is outclassed by pretty much every physical Dragon-type in OU.</p>

    <p>Latias has a number of other moves she could use. Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hit Tyranitar harder than all of her other moves, but since it still doesn't do that much to the T-rex, Latias is better off with her other options. Psycho Shift and a Flame Orb can be used to spread burns, but Latias generally has better things to do than that. Similary, Latias can use Rain Dance or Sunny Day as a backup weather inducer, but is generally unnecessary. Reflect Type is an interesting option to put on the Calm Mind set, as it allows Latias to copy the typings of her counters and hopefully resist their attacks, but is very easily played around. Safeguard can be used to block status, but Substitute and Refresh are generally better options because they are not turn-limited.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Tyranitar is definitely Latias's number one enemy. It takes little from any of her attacks, even Hidden Power Fighting, and checkmates her with Crunch and Pursuit. Even if Latias uses Reflect and invests heavily in her physical defense, she will generally lose to the T-rex. Blissey and Chansey are probably the next on the list, since they do not take much from any of Latias's attacks and can cripple her with Toxic. They will need to watch out Trick, though. Specially defensive Jirachi laughs at Latias's assualts and can paralyze her with Body Slam or Thunder Wave, then proceed to flinch her to death with Iron Head. Ferrothorn easily takes on any Latias that doesn't use Hidden Power Fire (which even that won't even do much in rainy weather) and can use Leech Seed and Gyro Ball to take her out. Be aware of Substitute + Calm Mind variants, however, since skilled Latias players would be able to stall out Gyro Ball PP and then proceed to set up in Ferrothorn's face. If Latias lacks Hidden Power Fire, Scizor will make Latias cry by checkmating her with U-turn and Pursuit. Choice Scarf Genesect can outspeed and OHKO Latias with U-turn. Aside from Hidden Power Fire, both will also have to watch out for a rain-boosted Surf and Thunder from the offensive set, as they hurt substantially. If Latias lacks Surf, Heatran can use Roar to force Latias out or cripple it with Toxic, while Skarmory can do a similar job if she uses Substitute or Psyshock as her secondary moves.</p>

    <p>Otherwise, Latias is generally difficult to revenge kill on the special side due to her huge bulk on that side. Physically, however, she is much more vulnerable, which means she can be revenge killed by Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Genesect, Garchomp, Salamence, and Haxorus. Mamoswine can pick off weakened Latias with Ice Shard, while the rare Weavile can checkmate her with any of Ice Punch, Night Slash, or Pursuit.</p>


    Implement and GP APPROVED 1/2
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  14. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    GP check 1 implemented, GatoDelFuego, thanks for the check. Sorry for not implementing this sooner, I kept forgetting.
  15. bugmaniacbob

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    I SHALL END THIS

    candy (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Since Latias was unbanned in Black and White, her performance on in the usage stats has generally been much lower than what it should be. It is not hard to see why, however, since her brother Latios and newcomer Hydreigon are the general go-to Pokemon for "powerful special attacking Dragon-type". What a lot of people overlook is Latias's higher defenses, which allow her to play a more supportive effective support role. With new threats such as Thundurus-T and Keldeo being introduced in Black and White 2, Latias is one of the few Pokemon that can take them on while still remaining an offensive threat in the long run. Her resistances to common attacking types, namely Water, Electric, Grass, Fire, Psychic, and Fighting, as well as an excellent Ground immunity,(comma) allows allow her to switch in easily and put a stop to many potential threats. When her counters are removed, she can easily sweep late game. However, her problems do still exist. Her Psychic typing, which grants her the excellent Fighting-type resistance, is a double-edged sword, as it makes her highly vulnerable to Pursuit. Her inability to hurt common Spikers such as Ferrothorn outside of weak Hidden Powers make her a big target for Spike-stacking teams as well. Still, as long as you play Latias carefully, there will generally be a place for her on virtually any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire / Psyshock
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is probably the one that takes full the most advantage of Latias's fabulous qualities. Her respectable Special Attack, base 110 Speed, and fantastic Special Defense allows allow her to switch in repeatedly over the course of a match to either take hard hits or to set up for a sweep. She is probably the only Pokemon in OU that can check all of Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, Infernape, Thundurus-T, and a variety of sun and rain sweepers at the same time, all the while remaining a long-term offensive threat. One thing to always remember is that Latias is not a Pokemon that you would pull out and immediately try to sweep with, but is to instead used to defend against the aforementioned threats and only used to attempt to sweep when all her counters have been eliminated. Unlike Latios, who specializes in immediate firepower, Latias is better known for her role as a supporting sweeper. Calm Mind and Recover allow Latias to switch in constantly into many threats while boosting her Special Attack as well as her already massive Special Defense repeatedly. Dragon Pulse is her main STAB attack. The last move is extremely variable, and depends on what role Latias is playing in the team and what kind of EV spread she is running.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind Latias is one of those sets that can have all sorts of variation, depending on what role she is playing on the team. The set shown above presents the most balanced option. The EV spread used allows Latias to take two Choice Specs-boosted Icy Winds from Keldeo after Stealth Rock damage, while maintaining maximum speed Speed to outspeed all the Pokemon in the base 108 range Speed tier. Substitute is the preferred option in the last slot, not only to avoid status and Leech Seed, but also to protect herself from Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Scizor. It also gives her a layer of protection against Choice Scarf Genesect, as well as potentially stalling out Gyro Ball from Ferrothorn, allowing her to set up with relative impunity. Hidden Power Fire allows Latias to deal a lot of damage to both Scizor and Genesect, who both give her a lot of trouble. Be aware that the imperfect IV used for Hidden Power Fire would mean she can no longer speed-tie with other Pokemon that sit on at 110 base speed Speed. Psyshock, on the other hand, allows Latias to deal with Fighting-types, especially Keldeo, more easily [maybe mention CM wars here?]. While Latias has no problem against Choice-locked Keldeo, she may run into problems against Calm Mind Keldeo if she does not run Psyshock, as Secret Sword bypasses Latias's special bulk, and will be able to take her down if Keldeo has obtained enough boosts.</p>

    <p>Latias can also use a more defensive pathway set. With an EV spread of 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe and a Bold nature, she can take Fighting-types on a lot better more easily, especially against Breloom and Choice Band Terrakion. The EV spread allows her to outspeed max speed Speed Pokemon with a base 70 speed Speed using a positive nature, for example such as Timid Politoed and Jolly Breloom. If you do decide to use this spread, decent options in the last slot are generally support moves. Reflect allows Latias to cushion Pursuit, as well as potentially set up on Tyranitar that do not use Crunch and do not invest much in Attack. Substitute is again,(remove) a very good option on physically defensive Calm Mind Latias, as well as Roar to force out set-up sweepers such as Calm Mind Reuniclus. Refresh is another option, as it allows Latias to heal status such as burns from switching into Scald, as well as allowing her to set up on Blissey and Chansey much more easily. However, being unable to block Leech Seed, while not giving her Pursuit and U-turn protection generally makes Refresh an inferior option to Substitute. The main reason that such a spread is not as recommended as the primary spread shown above is because Latias is generally too slow with this spread. The metagame has many fast threats that Latias desperately wants needs to outspeed in order to defeat them, such as Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Keldeo, and Sheer Force Landorus.</p>

    <p>The other Another way to run Calm Mind Latias is to run a fully offensive set. With an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, a Timid nature and a moveset of Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire / Grass Knot can be used. While this may be completely outclassed by Latios, this set really shines when used in tandem with her brother. There are two ways to use such a set. One is to use Latios to severely weaken Latias's counters so Latias can roll through later, or to equip a Colbur Berry on Latias, allowing her to deal major damage to Latios's counters, namely Tyranitar, Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Scizor. This would allow Latios to follow up and sweep unimpeded. Obviously, there are downsides to such a setup strategy, since both Latias and Latios share the same typing and very similar stats, making your team doubly weak to whatever counters both Latias and Latios.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is definitely Latias's worst enemy, and generally coming comes from either Tyranitar or Scizor. Even with Substitute, it is generally difficult to avoid getting Latias trapped consistently, since prediction does go both ways. This is why Fighting-types are excellent teammates to use alongside Latias to set up on Pursuit users. Lucario, Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Infernape, Virizion, and Conkeldurr are all excellent contenders. Intimidate users are also good, as well as physically defensive set-up sweepers and Steel-types, such as Gyarados, Landorus-T, Salamence, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Scizor. In exchange, Latias's Latias resists most of their weaknesses and tanks special hits without much trouble at all.</p>

    <p>Other Pokemon that give Latias trouble are bulky Steel-types, as well as Blissey and Chansey. The aforementioned Scizor is already one big threat, but BW2 decided to introduce Scizor on steroids&mdashGenesect. Fortunately, it cannot use Pursuit Latias, but its fast U-turns will always cause headaches for any team. Ferrothorn is the next biggest culprit, as it takes little from any of Latias's moves, even Hidden Power Fire if it is raining, and can respond with Leech Seed and Gyro Ball while setting up hazards at will. If Latias has Substitute, she can, with good prediction, PP stall out Gyro Ball and set up in Ferrothorn's face, but this is a rather risky play all the same. Specially defensive Jirachi takes very little from Latias's attacks and can use Body Slam to paralyze her,(comma) while taking then take her out with Iron Head. If Latias lacks Surf, Heatran also resists most of her options, while being able to phaze her with Roar or cripple her with Toxic. For this reason, Dugtrio and Magnezone are good teammates to for Latias in order to trap and remove the Steel-types that most trouble her and her team. Dugtrio can OHKO Heatran and heavily damage Jirachi, as well as taking out Tyranitar. Magnezone, on the other hand, can trap and OHKO Scizor and Skarmory, and as long as it avoids Leech Seed or Thunder Wave, it can trap and set up on Ferrothorn using Substitute and Charge Beam. Since many of these bulky Steel-types pack entry hazards, Rapid Spin users are also good teammates. Tentacruel is a Rapid Spin user that synergizes well with Latias, as it resists Latias's Ice-type and Bug-type weakness weaknesses, while Latias resists or is immune to all of Tentacruel's weaknesses. Forretress also synergizes well with Latias due to being able to resist its resistance to physical Dragon-type attacks, as well as U-turn and Crunch. Other decent Rapid Spin users include Donphan, Starmie, and Sandslash, if you are using Latias on a sand team. As for Blissey and Chansey, the aforementioned physical attackers can easily set up on them.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunder
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Recover / Trick / Dragon Pulse
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set may seem more suited for Latios, which sports a much higher Special Attack stat. However, Latias's higher bulk allows her to come into play more often and dish out powerful hits. While Latios is a powerful wallbreaker, Latias is more of an offensive pivot and special tank. Even without investing in Special Defense, Latias is still bulky enough to take special attacks without much fear. She can easily take a Hidden Power Ice from Life Orb Thundurus-T and OHKO with Draco Meteor. One common complaint is that Latias is too weak initially, needing at least two Calm Minds to hit relatively hard. However, with maximum investment to Special Attack and holding a Life Orb or Choice Specs, Latias is still extremely powerful. Do not forget that it was her Choice Specs set that got her banned in DPP&mdashDraco Meteor smashes everything that does not resist it. Psyshock is the preferred move in the second slot as it KOs KOes Fighting-types, most notably Keldeo. However, if you are using a rain team, Thunder is a very powerful alternative, as it does a lot of damage to bulky Water-types and many Steel-types as well as still doing heaps of damage to Keldeo without having to resort to Psyshock. It also carries a 30% paralysis rate. Surf is the generally the best coverage move in the third slot, as it which gets pseudo-STAB in the rain, as well as letting Latias KO Landorus without having to resort to Draco Meteor. However, Hidden Power Fire is also perfectly acceptable,(comma) because as it lets Latias OHKO Genesect and Scizor when it's not raining and allows Latias to deal lots of damage to Ferrothorn. It works even better if you are using a sun team, since it gets a boost in the sun.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is generally the preferred item since it allows her to switch attacks and use Recover to stick around for longer. However, the extra power that Choice Specs brings is hard to ignore. For example, with Choice Specs equipped, Latias has a very high chance of OHKOing Dragonite [both offensive and defensive?] through Multiscale with Draco Meteor, as well as OHKOing Conkeldurr [with what?]. It also allows Latias to cripple walls with Trick.</p>

    <p>The last moveslot should depend on what item Latias is equipped with. Recover is Latias's best option if Life Orb is used, since it would allow her to switch in repeatedly and recover lost health. Trick is the preferred move if Choice Specs is equipped,(comma) to allow for Latias to cripple walls with. If neither of the these moves appeal to you, Dragon Pulse can be used as a reliable Dragon-type STAB attack. In terms of other coverage moves, Thunderbolt can be used if you don't find Thunder reliable enough, while Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hurt Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>The EV spread used is just a simple 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread, with a Timid nature to outspeed all the Fighting-types that sit on at base 108 Speed, as well as Thundurus-T, Landorus, and all the Pokemon on base 100 Speed, while still hitting as hard as possible. Max Speed and a Timid nature is essential to outpace all those threatening Pokemon, but Latias can slide some of her Special Attack into HP depending on how bulky you want her to be, all the way up to a spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar, Scizor, and Genesect still cause huge problems for Latias, especially after a Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor, although Scizor and Genesect need to watch out for Hidden Power Fire as well as rain-boosted Surf and Thunder. Specially defensive Steel-types such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn (especially in the rain) can give Latias trouble as well. Chansey can take Psyshock all day and stall Latias out, but must watch out for Trick. Garchomp is an excellent Pokemon to take on all of the aforementioned threats, especially Jirachi. Other physical attackers that can take out Chansey and most of Latias's threats include Landorus-T, Terrakion, and Gyarados. Heatran is also a good Pokemon to switch into the aforementioned Steel-types. Magnezone is good at useful for trapping Ferrothorn and setting up on it with Substitute and Charge Beam, while Dugtrio does a better job at trapping and dealing heavy damage to Jirachi. Since many bulky Steel-types in OU carry entry hazards, Rapid Spin users are always welcome on a team with Latias, including Tentacruel, Forretress, Starmie, Donphan, and Sandslash.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Healing Wish
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Light Clay
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Latias's natural bulk and speed make her a solid Dual Screen dual screen user. While some people may again question why you would not use Latios instead due to his ability to soften blows further with Memento, Healing Wish differentiates Latias from her twin brother. With Healing Wish, Latias can sacrifice herself to bring back a crippled sweeper to give it a second chance at sweeping. As long as you don't end up getting said sweeper KOed, you can usually attempt a sweep earlier in the game with one sweeper, hopefully crippling or KOing its counter,(comma) then switching it out once crippled. Later in the game, Latias can set up Reflect and Light Screen and then sacrifice herself so that same sweeper can rampage through the opposing team unhindered. Essentially, Latias is a faster, slightly less bulky version of Cresselia, but unlike Cresselia, Latias has a bunch of very nice resistances, as well as offenses that can hit hard enough are a threat in their own right. Apart from the three compulsory moves (Reflect, Light Screen, and Healing Wish), Draco Meteor is probably the best fit in the last slot so that Latias is not utter setup fodder. Even without investment, the move is powerful enough to deter frailer set-up sweepers from setting up on Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Apart from Draco Meteor, Latias has a number of options she can run in the last slot. Roar can be used to prevent setup, while Wish can be used to give a sweeper a relatively safe switch-in if you are not up to sacrificing ready to sacrifice Latias at the time. Thunder Wave can also be used to cripple potential revenge killers, or even giving give your sweeper an easier time in setting up with potential paralysis.</p>

    <p>Good teammates to Dual Screens Latias fall into two categories: sweepers and Pokemon that can take full advantage of Dual Screens dual screens and Healing Wish, and Pokemon that synergize well with Latias in general. Swords Dance Terrakion, Garchomp, Lucario, Breloom, Dragon Dance Salamence, Dragonite, Gyarados, Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, and Quiver Dance Volcarona are all excellent recipients of Dual Screens dual screens and Healing Wish. Shell Smash passers are also extremely deadly with Healing Wish support. When something like Gorebyss pulls off a successful Shell Smash pass, skilled opponents would generally be able to stop the recipient in some way or another, leaving Gorebyss too damaged to be able to Baton Pass another set of Shell Smash boosts. However, with Dual Screens dual screens and Healing Wish bringing Gorebyss back up to full health, it is a lot easier to pass off a second set off of boosts to another sweeper that can easily finish off the opponent's weakened team. General Pokemon that work well with Latias are Pokemon that can switch into her weaknesses, especially Pursuit. Heatran pretty much synergizes perfectly with Latias, while Fighting-types are generally first on call when it comes to switching into Pursuit.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Latias can run a pure support set with Wish and Roar, but her relatively low HP stat means she's generally outclassed in such a set by Blissey, Chansey, Jirachi, and Vaporeon. Latias can also barely use a Choice Scarf set, but such a set is largely outclassed by Latios, who boasts the higher firepower required for revenge killing various Pokemon. If Latias is to use a Choice Scarf, it is a good idea to use Healing Wish on it to differentiate herself from Latios, allowing her to pull of a fast revival of a crippled teammate in a pinch. Latias can even run a very gimmicky physical set with Hone Claws / Outrage / Earthquake / Sucker Punch, but is outclassed by pretty much every physical Dragon-type in OU.</p>

    <p>Latias has a number of other moves she could use. Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hit Tyranitar harder than all of her other moves, but since it still doesn't do that much to the T-rex, Latias is better off with her other options. Psycho Shift and a Flame Orb can be used to spread burns, but Latias generally has better things to do than that. Similary, Latias can use Rain Dance or Sunny Day as a backup weather inducer, but this is generally unnecessary. Reflect Type is an interesting option to put on the Calm Mind set, as it allows Latias to copy the typings of her counters and hopefully resist their attacks, but is very easily played around. Safeguard can be used to block status, but Substitute and Refresh are generally better options because they are not turn-limited.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Tyranitar is definitely Latias's number one enemy. It takes little from any of her attacks, even Hidden Power Fighting, and checkmates her with Crunch and Pursuit. Even if Latias uses Reflect and invests heavily in her physical defense, she will generally lose to the T-rex. Blissey and Chansey are probably the next on the list, since they do not take much from any of Latias's attacks and can cripple her with Toxic. They will need to watch out for Trick, though. Specially defensive Jirachi laughs at Latias's assualts and can paralyze her with Body Slam or Thunder Wave, then proceed to flinch her to death with Iron Head. Ferrothorn easily takes on any Latias that doesn't use Hidden Power Fire (which won't even do much in rainy weather) and can use Leech Seed and Gyro Ball to take her out. Be aware of Substitute + Calm Mind variants, however, since skilled Latias players would be able to stall out Gyro Ball and then proceed to set up in Ferrothorn's face. If Latias lacks Hidden Power Fire, Scizor will make Latias cry by checkmating her with U-turn and Pursuit. Choice Scarf Genesect can outspeed and OHKO Latias with U-turn. Aside from Hidden Power Fire, both will also have to watch out for a rain-boosted Surf and or Thunder from the offensive set, as they hurt substantially. If Latias lacks Surf, Heatran can use Roar to force Latias out or cripple it with Toxic, while Skarmory can do a similar job if she uses Substitute or Psyshock as her secondary moves.</p>

    <p>Otherwise, Latias is generally difficult to revenge kill on the special side due to her huge special bulk on that side. Physically, however, she is much more vulnerable, which means she can be revenge killed by Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Genesect, Garchomp, Salamence, and Haxorus. Mamoswine can pick off weakened Latias with Ice Shard, while the rare Weavile can checkmate her with any of Ice Punch, Night Slash, or Pursuit.</p>


    best dragon

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  16. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Whooo finally got around to finishing this. Thanks for the check bmb, this is done!
  17. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Just from a quick glance, the second set - "Offensive" looks extremely jumbled. Life Orb and Choice Specs play completely differently. I'm not too sure why Choice Specs isn't just AC material since you should be using Latios anyway... Either way.. the slashitis looks cluttered.
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    I agree with Raikou Lover. In order for Latias to differentiate itself from Latios when running an offensive set, it should be able to capitalize on its main advantage, bulk. And Latias needs Roost in order to do this most of the times, aka the LO Tank set, otherwise she dies pretty quickly even from resisted attack and doesn't pack the power that Specs Latios does. Specs Latias should be covered in a sentence of AC, as it is not too good of a set to gain a main set, and the slashitis is also a bit ugly.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Here's what we'll do:

    Move all mentions of Choice Specs to AC. That means well be dropping Trick, Dragon Pulse, Thunder (which should not be there in the first place actually) from the main set, which should alleviate the issue of having a slashy set.
  20. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Uploading

    good shrang, this turned out great

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