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Latias (WIP)

Discussion in 'Dream World Analyses' started by shrang, May 31, 2012.

  1. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Taking over from mostwanted.

    Still WIP


    [​IMG]

    [Overview]
    <p>Ever since both were dropped from Ubers in Black and White, Latias has often been overlooked in favour of her harder-hitting brother, Latios. While offensively, Latias is no match, people forget that the siblings are two different Pokemon who play very differently. While 10 extra base Defense and 20 Special Defense may seem small, Latias' extra bulk allow it to be much more flexible and versatile in fitting into a team than Latios is. This additional bulk, along with her still very good offensive stats, makes her one of the best counters to some of the top threats in Dream World OU, for example Keldeo and Technician Breloom. She is a Pokemon that can perform offensive and defensive jobs with near equal effectiveness and is one of the best offensive pivots in the metagame. However, with the popularity of Tyranitar, her greatest enemy, as well as new threats such as Choice Scarf Chandelure and Genesect, one must play Latias very carefully. Even with competition from new dragons, the buffing of Salamence and Dragonite, the unbanning of Garchomp as well as from her own brother Latios, it would be utter folly to write off Latias' capabilities.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Psyshock / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 92 HP / 164 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set shows off all of Latias's qualities: her abilities to support a team as well as being an ominous threat in the background, ready to rip apart teams at any given opportunity. Her respectable Special Attack stat, great Speed, and excellent Special Defense makes her the premier Keldeo counter in the Dream World metagame. Latias is able to outspeed Calm Mind Keldeo, Calm Mind alongside the super pony and KO it with Psyshock. Apart from Keldeo, Latias also checks most Fighting-types, such as Breloom, Terrakion, Infernape, and Virizion, as well as other threats, such as rain and sun sweepers, as well as all Dragon-types that are slower than her. Latias is one of the few Pokemon that can defend against so many Pokemon while still having good offensive potential. Calm Mind allows Latias to boost her decent Special Attack while making her nigh-impenetrable on the special side. Dragon Pulse is her main STAB, while Recover allows her to keep healthy and continue stacking boosts. In the last slot, Psyshock is preferred as it firmly plants Latias' boot in Keldeo's face, but Surf is an excellent coverage move that allows Latias to semi-check Excadrill at good health, as well as taking down Landorus quickly. It also allows Latias to at least hurt Tyranitar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs ensures that Latias always OHKOs Keldeo with Psyshock after a Calm Mind, as well as OHKOing offensive Dragonite with Dragon Pulse before a Calm Mind, after Stealth Rock damage. Maximum Speed investment as well as a Timid nature makes Latias as fast as possible, outspeeding dangerous threats such as Keldeo, Terrakion, and Infernape, as well as speed-tieing with Latios, Gengar, and Espeon. The rest of the EVs go into HP to ensure that any +2 Thundurus without a Life Orb will always fail to OHKO Latias with Hidden Power Ice after Stealth Rock. Leftovers is the item of choice to preserve Latias' bulk, although Life Orb can be used to gain some more KOs such as an OHKO on Garchomp. In terms of other move options, Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Fire both provide Latias excellent coverage for Steel-types. Thunderbolt allows Latias to smite Skarmory before it Whirlwinds her away, as well taking down bulky Water-types more efficiently. Hidden Power Fire gives Latias a good weapon to use against Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that walls Latias to no end, as well as taking out heavily damaging Genesect on the switch.</p>

    <p>While Latias' versatility is unparalleled, she still has her weaknesses. Tyranitar, whose popularity in Dream World has no bounds, makes Latias' life hell, as it takes little damage from any of her attacks, while easily dispatching her with Pursuit. While Scizor is not as popular in Dream World, it is replaced by the even more annoying Genesect, whose Choice Scarf set easily outspeeds and OHKOs Latias with U-turn. While Latias can easily survive a Shadow Ball, Choice Scarf Chandelure will nonetheless trap and rip off a decent chunk of health from Latias that does not have a Calm Mind up. It is difficult to counter any of the aforementioned threats, since Latias is trapped by two of them, while Genesect would one step ahead of your counter as it is most likely U-turning away. For Tyranitar and Chandelure, while the only way to avoid Pursuit and Shadow Tag is through smart prediction and double switching, teammates that can set up on or trap them are beneficial to have around just in case Latias is removed by the trappers. Terrakion, Excadrill, Lucario, Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Keldeo all have absolutely no problem in setting up on Tyranitar, although the first three need to be careful of Superpower, while Breloom will not enjoy Fire Blast or Ice Beam. As for Chandelure, Steel-types can set up on Shadow Ball easily, while bulkier Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Double Dance Terrakion in the Sand, Keldeo and Calm Mind Raikou can all set up on Chandelure locked into Shadow Ball.</p>

    <p>Other problematic Pokemon for Latias are obviously bulky Steel-types. Unless she carries Hidden Power Fire, Latias has very little means of getting past Ferrothorn or Scizor. Ferrothorn can Leech Seed and set up Spikes in Latias' face, or take her down with Gyro Ball, while Scizor can checkmate her with U-turn and Pursuit. Chandelure can easily trap and OHKO both of them with Overheat, while Magnezone can also trap them and dispatch them quite easily. Gyarados can easily set up on Scizor, while Fire-types such as Volcarona and Infernape can blast through both of them easily.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Recover / Trick / Dragon Pulse
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set looks completely outclassed by Latios, do not forgot the reasons why Latias is used in the first place. Her additional bulk allows her to switch in more frequently than Latios, while her base 110 Special Attack stat is still perfectly capable of blasting holes into the opponent's team. One downside to using some of Latias' bulkier sets is her lack of initial power and ability to finish off troublesome threats when they are at good health. However, with full investment in Special Attack and a Life Orb or Choice Specs, Latias is perfectly capable of taking out the threats that need to be removed. Draco Meteor is Latias' powerful STAB attack, decimating most Pokemon that do not resist it. Psyshock allows Latias to take out Fighting-types that plague the metagame. Surf is an excellent coverage move which allows Latias to 3HKO Specially Defensive Tyranitar as well as 2HKO Scizor and Genesect. Hidden Power Fire can be used in its place to hit Ferrothorn for 4x effective damage, although that does come at a price of running an imperfect Speed IV.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item of choice and the last move can be an extremely important choice to make. Since Latias is still mainly a support Pokemon, Life Orb and Recover are preferred in most situations, since it allows Latias to switch attacks and heal herself. However, the power of that Choice Specs grants her cannot be denied: it allows Latias to OHKO offensive Dragonite with Draco Meteor through Multiscale 66.7% of the time, as well as easily OHKOing Conkeldurr after Stealth Rock damage.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Defensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Reflect / Substitute / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Healing Wish
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Light Clay
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    [Other Options]

    [Checks and Counters]
  2. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    What are the advantages to Offensive Latias over Offensive Latios? 20 less SpA and just SpD to compensate? I'd be reluctant to use Latias as a nuke with the Offensive set. Kind of the same with Offensive Calm Mind, Latios can run essentially the same set with more power. IMO scrap the first two sets and just keep the second two. Maybe some kind of tank set as an offensive set, but otherwise, it seems like Latios can simply to anything offensively based better.
  3. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Latias is bulkier than Latios and serves as a better counter to Breloom and Keldeo, both of whom are popular threats in Dream World. Personally, I think that the 3rd set should be scrape as it's pretty terrible. In Standard OU, that set was approved mostly because it could in theory beat Tyranitar. But in reality, Latias needs to get to +5 to 2HKO Tyranitar, who almost always has Crunch in conjunction with Pursuit, meaning that Latias is has to spend many turns using Recover, Reflect, and Calm Mind, while Tyranitar sits on its butt and waits for a Defense drop. As someone who has used Defensive Calm Mind Latias a little too much, I can say that it's pretty bad and I don't see any merit in using it in a more hostile DW metagame.
  4. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    pokemon0078: Spoken like a true "don't-know-how-to-use-Latias" person, lol. Sorry about that little pot shot on you. The advantages of using offensive Latias is the fact that her bulk does actually make her play very differently to Latios. Latios is more of an all-out sweeper, while Latias, even when using an offensive set, is still a supporter. It's kind of like how Virizion works, or Rock Arceus in Ubers. She can be used offensively and defensively in whatever the situation sees fit. If you have a Choice Specs Politoed in front of you, use Latias as a defensive Pokemon. If your opponent out of Latias checks, she can sweep. Latios is not as versatile. He cannot switch into stuff like SpecsToed's Hydro Pump without losing at least 60-70% of its health. Latias, on the other hand, sets up on SpecsToed. The extra 20 SpD makes a huge difference in how the two Pokemon are run.

    Sir: Yeah, I realise that using Reflect to try and set up on Tyranitar and Scizor is kind of dangerous, but by my experience (watching other people use it), I do believe that the physically defensive set isn't there to try and set up on Tyranitar. I do think Reflect is kind of situational, but it does turn Latias into a really bulky Pokemon that can take hits from both sides. I'll probably put Reflect into the last option (it's only there to cushion Pursuit, really), the other two options are excellent on defensive Latias. With Roar, Latias is easily phazing away Keldeo, Breloom, Reuniclus and what-not in a pinch, while Substitute is just great in its own right. So yeah, I think that spread is still pretty viable, it's just not in the way that twash (the writer) originally intended.
  5. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Instead of suggesting Defensive Latias can be its own set, you can give it a brief mention in AC with the suggested EVs and Reflect. I, too, agree that it's not viable enough in Dream World to warrant its own set, especially with Garchomp back and the set taking away her ability to check him.
  6. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    The two sets do play quite differently, so I think if it is to get an AC mention, it would have to get quite a large one. This is probably not to mention that the final slot might be looking really messy. The offensive Calm Mind set is probably having stuff like Psyshock, Surf, Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fire as the final move, while the defensive one is looking at moves like Substitute, Roar and Reflect. The AC would probably look something like the Mixed Dialga analysis (which is massive). I'll keep it for the moment and gauge more people's opinions.

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