Gen 4 Latias

Warped Worlds

formerly Lizardman
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#51
i think heist makes a fair argument. Lizardman too until he started talking about Landorus...

in all honesty, dpp ou is pretty good right now. testing Latias probably causes more trouble than it's worth. i'm not entirely convinced Latias would make the meta better either. maybe Latias shouldn't be banned, it's hard to say, but dpp is fun and competitive right now. id rather avoid trying to fix something that isn't broken given the circumstances.

i will say that the dpp lati/mence tour was a good time
Sorry I went off topic a little bit or if I had the wrong idea. I do have to admit though I never played smogon tour when Latias + Salamence were unbanned so I wouldn't know. I did enjoy the Latias + Salamence metagame too otherwise.

DPP awareness is always a good thing BKC I agree. The PO DPP ladder is pretty active, but it just isn't like the shoddy ladder used to be. The best part about it is when a bunch of seasoned smogon players play on it and you get high quality intense matches. Although that doesn't happen on it as much as it should.

In the case a test does happen, the voters need to be quite knowledgable of the current DPP OU metagame in addition to the suspect metagame. Since someone who isn't very knowledgable about the current DPP OU metagame could always vote without knowing the total effects Latias can have on both metagames.
 

BKC

is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion
Past Gens Champion
#52
The PO DPP ladder is pretty active, but it just isn't like the shoddy ladder used to be. The best part about it is when a bunch of seasoned smogon players play on it and you get high quality intense matches. Although that doesn't happen on it as much as it should.
and a test that raises awareness for a great meta could help this along by encouraging good players to play more often and therefore making the ladder higher quality!

LizardMan said:
In the case a test does happen, the voters need to be quite knowledgable of the current DPP OU metagame in addition to the suspect metagame. Since someone who isn't very knowledgable about the current DPP OU metagame could always vote without knowing the total effects Latias can have on both metagames.
agreed. i wouldn't want bwfag693 who'd never played a game of dpp prior to this test voting on latias either.
 
#53
the problem is you are only looking at this from one angle.

salamence didn't contribute more to the metagame's centralization because defensively salamence walls almost nothing. the only notable things it really checked were lucario barely and heatran, whereas latias beats a whole host of things. salamence did have an extremely large influence on defensive choices but didn't hinder offensive threats as much as it could not really check them.

if you look at latias, its presence made zapdos and shaymin, among other threats, almost non-existent. the issue is that latias can switch-in on these guys easily while still having an incredible offensive presence compared to their usual counters. latias has an equal impact on offensive and defensive picks and centralises the defensive picks while limiting the amount of viable offensive options.

no clue what 2)'s relevance is...

i just feel like people are only looking at one side of the coin here
Still, Latias' defensive sets really made team building more entertaining for me. People depended alot on Latias to check many things, I used a team with a Sub Twave Magnezone and EASILY reached #1 on the shoddy board. Because really whenever you found something to use that will catch and cripple their Latias off guard then you can rip through their teams with other pokemon that only Latias on their team can handle.

PS. (No Offense) Why is Lavos Spawn posting, he started playing pokemon like a week ago?
 

Lavos

alone with my friends
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#54
PS. (No Offense) Why is Lavos Spawn posting, he started playing pokemon like a week ago?
none taken. i'm mediocre at dpp but you'll notice i wasn't offering an actual opinion on latias, just commenting on the nature of suspect tests in general. i'm all for suspecting latias so we can finally get a cut and dry resolution on it but idc whether it's unbanned or not.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
#55
if the community has faith in the suspect process, there is nothing to lose by testing latias. i'm not going to offer an opinion on latias itself, but i will say that much. basically ask yourself regardless of your own biases "why not?"
Why not? Because I don't have faith in the suspect process. :justin2: It's literally the reason I stopped playing Gen 4 and don't play Gen 5.

Latias is still better than Salamence, Latios, and probably Garchomp anyway. I'm not sure why we would unban the best of the possibly-broken bunch. It's like a GSC Snorlax that outspeeds most of the metagame and has fewer checks.
 
#56
I warn, you, I may not be the most experianced battler of DPP, but I have done my research at least :).

Latias should be uber. Not due to her great bulk, not due to her great power, but her speed. 110 Speed in DPP is a godsend. When 100 is the normally considered great speed, Latias just ignores that and KOs whatever. Latias also has a lot of freedom to run in sets. It can literally do any role save hazards and physical anything. In all honesty, Latias being gone helps the meta, as it allows more diversity via Dragons like Kingdra getting spotlight and FWG cores being viable.
 
#57
I warn, you, I may not be the most experianced battler of DPP, but I have done my research at least :).

Latias should be uber. Not due to her great bulk, not due to her great power, but her speed. 110 Speed in DPP is a godsend. When 100 is the normally considered great speed, Latias just ignores that and KOs whatever. Latias also has a lot of freedom to run in sets. It can literally do any role save hazards and physical anything. In all honesty, Latias being gone helps the meta, as it allows more diversity via Dragons like Kingdra getting spotlight and FWG cores being viable.
110 is good, but not the gold standard, especially when you're Pursuit-weak. She's amazing because of her excellent stat spread in general. Her power (demonstrated by her Draco Meteor) stands out and was a key reason why many people, including suspect voters, decided she was too much.

I agree that her removal vastly improved the metagame, but you're incorrect about FWG cores getting the spotlight, or being even viable/good. Teambuilding with a FWG as the basis of your core is just asking you to be torn apart by the many diverse movepools.
 
#58
Latias has a great speed, combined with great bulk, combined with great resistances, combined with a great ability, combined with great special attack, combined with great STAB, combined with a great movepool. It's a powerful pokemon because it can switch in very easily, outspeed it's opponent and pose a strong offensive threat. While it is weak to pursuit, that is really it's only weakness.

That said, Water types, Heatran and Stall are very strong in the current metagame and Latias can be helpful against all three of those.
 
#59
Latias should be OU, i'm really tired of playing Heatran every damn time or getting my ass whipped by LOStarmie because i don't play Blissey or Abomasnow, Latias helped the metagame with both offensive and defensive capacities and he's not really that awful, Dragonite is a better stallbreaker for example, he is way slower but Latias is not that hard to revenge kill / check. Salamence is a touchy subject but Latias is a great pokemon to every playstyle in DPP, the last part of DPP with Latias was kinda awful ( Wishrachi / Skarm / Tias / Scarfttar is goddamn repetitive ) but with pokemon like ESnite in HGSS, it's easier to stallbreak and deal with it, and imo pokemons like Zapdos / Shaymin / Starmie etc are not less awful for offensives teams than Latias, even if they are way frailier.