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Latios (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Aerrow, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    [​IMG]
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    Latios

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    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire were released and Latios was introduced, he has remained high above standard play in the infamous Uber tier. However, the massive power creep of generation 5 has brought the dragon down into the OU tier, where he can finally be rid of his status as an Uber Dragon-type and start to show the full extent of his legendary power. An amazing base 130 Special Attack stat and a formidable base 110 Speed stat, coupled up with a great offensive movepool, is more than enough to make Latios one of the most powerful Pokemon in standard play. Its versatility is another huge asset to its success, as he's able to run a large array of sets ranging from Choice Specs all the way to Dragon Dance! Unfortunately, it's not all sunshine and rainbows for the Eon Pokemon - he's heavily crippled by his Psychic-typing, which renders it vulnerable to a plethora of Pokemon, the foremost being users of Pursuit such as Scizor and Tyranitar.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Recover / Thunderbolt / Psyshock
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Easily Latios's signature set in generation 5, this set makes full use of Latios's amazing characteristics as a sweeper - his large movepool, excellent base stat layout, and of course, his all powerful Dragon-type STAB. He's geared towards the goal of punching as many holes as possible in an opposing team's core, allowing Latios's teammates to set up and sweep unhindered. Draco Meteor is Latios's strongest attack and is the crux of this set, as after you factor in STAB and Latios's massive base 130 Special Attack stat, you've got an attack which is capable of heavily denting the likes of Ferrothorn and Specially Defensive Jirachi! However, since the Special Attack drop Draco Meteor begets is undesirable, Dragon Pulse can be used instead to provide a consistent (although much weaker) STAB attack. Surf and Hidden Power Fire give great coverage with Latios's Dragon-type STAB, the former super effectively hitting defensive behemoths such as Tyranitar and the latter decimating Steel-types hoping to switch into a resisted attack. The final move comes down to personal preference: although Thunderbolt will provide additional coverage, Recover will generally lengthen Latios's lifespan in a battle, while Psyshock will allow the dragon to bypass the likes of Blissey and Chansey.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The recommended EVs are self-explanatory—maximum investments in Special Attack and Speed maximize the damage output of Latios's moves, and its ability to outpace key threats such as Virizion and Speed tie with opposing Latios and Latias. Although a Life Orb will provide Latios with a consistently larger damage output, an Expert Belt can be used to give this set with a 'surprise' factor , as with said item, a Choice item can be bluffed which may net an extra kill. A Timid nature is highly recommended as it allows Latios to outspeed Pokemon including Terrakion and Infernape, which would otherwise present problems.</p>

    <p>Due to the sheer amount of firepower and coverage this set has, it does not have very many counters or checks, although a couple of Pokemon exist which are capable of stopping Latios in its tracks. The foremost of these Pokemon would include specially defensive behemoths such as Tyranitar, and bulky Steel-types such as Scizor, Skarmory and Jirachi (however both of these types of Pokemon can be heavily dented with prediction: a well-timed Surf for the former, and a Hidden Power Fire for the latter would allow Latios to win, one-on-one). Due to this, pairing Latios with Pokemon such as Magnezone, Taunt Gliscor, and stallbreaking Thundurus would be a good idea, as they are all able to handle the majority of Latios's checks and counters. Additionally, entry hazard support in form of Stealth Rock and Spikes would be invaluable, as it allows Latios to secure a couple of important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like 2HKOing specially defensive Tyranitar with Surf.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Trick / Psyshock
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike the previous set which focuses on dealing a large amount of damage over a relatively long period of time, this set aims to inflict copious amounts of damage to an opponent's team straight away. Draco Meteor is a staple on the set, as after the boost attained from Choice Specs, it's able to heavily dent any Pokemon that resists it, and decimate everything else, bar a few exceptions (like specially defensive Tyranitar). Surf provides Latios with an excellent coverage move to be used alongside its Dragon-type STAB; it helps weaken Pokemon such as Tyranitar (and in some cases, Steel-types like Scizor) hoping to switch in on a Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Fire acts as another coverage option as it strikes pesky Steel-types, like Jirachi and Ferrothorn, for super effective damage, and often for a clean 2HKO; however, Dragon Pulse can be used here as an alternate STAB attack, which is free of the Special Defense drop Draco Meteor warrants. Trick rounds off the set, providing Latios with a way to bypass, and incapacitate, special walls like Blissey, Chansey, and others hoping to sponge Latios's attacks; Psyshock can be used instead as a more offensively-orientated way to bypass the aforementioned.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs given are self-explanatory: maximum Speed and Special Attack to optimize Latios's offensive potential, while a small investment in HP increases his bulk slightly. The choice between which item to use comes down to personal preference - although Choice Specs greatly magnifies the power of Latios's moves, a Choice Scarf allows the dragon to bypass faster Pokemon such as Thundurus and Jolteon which may try to revenge kill it. A Timid nature is recommended on the set, although a Modest nature could be used if the extra power seems to be more desirable than the ability to outpace Pokemon such as Terrakion, Virizion, and Infernape, as well as the ability to Speed tie with Latias, Gengar, and opposing Latios.</p>

    <p>This set has a larger pool of checks and counters than the Life Orb set due to its inability to switch moves; however, good prediction skills will usually be more than enough to avoid this, as almost all of Latios's common switch-ins will be weak to at least one of the moves in his arsenal. Steel-types such as Scizor are some of Latios's prime checks as they'll be able to switch in on its Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse with impunity and start to set up or simply KO the dragon. Although a well-timed Hidden Power Fire will be more than enough to bypass them, Pokemon such as Magnezone will provide a more reliable method of defeating Steel-types. Tyranitar is another massive Latios check, as in sandstorm it can sponge all of Latios's attacks bar a Choice Specs Surf and trap it with Pursuit. Fighting-types are the best choices to deal with Tyranitar as they resist its STAB attacks, and can KO back with a super effective STAB Fighting-type attack; Pokemon such as Gliscor (given that Tyranitar has taken some residual damage and it doesn't carry Ice Beam) can also be used as stronger, more immediate answers.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Psycho Shock / Recover
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Latias is more commonly seen using a Calm Mind set, her counterpart Latios can also effectively utilize Calm Mind, albeit in a more offensively-inclined set due to his significantly higher Special Attack stat. Dragon Pulse is a staple on the set as it provides Latios with a reliable STAB attack, capable of denting even the bulkiest of Pokemon after a few boosts from Calm Mind. Surf complements Latios's Dragon-type STAB nicely, 2HKOing Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar (after some residual damage) hoping to switch in on a Dragon Pulse and KO Latios with a super effective Bug Bite, Pursuit, or Crunch. The final move comes down to what best fits your team's needs - although Hidden Power Fire will allow Latios to beat bulky Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, Psycho Shock will let it bypass special walls such as a Blissey and Chansey while Recover will generally lengthen Latios's sweep as it will heal off any residual damage Latios may have acquired.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs are very straightforward; maximum investments in Special Attack and Speed maximize Latios's offensive capabilities while the remaining EVs are put into HP for a small amount of bulk. A more defensive EV spread can be run to make Latios a more defensively-inclined sweeper, although its counterpart, Latias, outclasses Latios when it comes to this due to her higher base Special Defense stat. A Timid nature is highly recommended as it allows Latios to Speed tie with opposing Latios and Latias, while outpacing Terrakion, Virizion, and Infernape. As this set is offensively-inclined, a Life Orb is the recommended item, as it bolsters Latios's attacks; however, Leftovers can be utilized to lengthen Latios's sweep.</p>

    <p>Although this set is more difficult to counter than the previous ones since after setting up, it will have the immense power of the Choice Specs set and the freedom of switching moves granted by the Life Orb set, there are couple of Pokemon that can be considered checks. Tyranitar remains Latios's number one check, as it can sponge Latios's attacks even after it has set up a couple of Calm Minds. If Latios isn't running Hidden Power Fire, Pokemon such as specially defensive Scizor can present problems as they'll be able to survive a boosted Surf and deal back a massive blow through Bug Bite. Magnezone and stallbreakers like Gliscor remain excellent partners as not only can they defeat the aforementioned Pokemon, but can also help weaken an opposing team's core, making it easier for Latios to set up and sweep. Lastly, Latios will enjoy the support of entry hazards, as he will be able to secure certain OHKOs and 2HKOs, a prime one being OHKOing Tyranitar with a boosted Surf after a couple of rounds of Spikes damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screen + Memento
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Memento
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Latios is almost always seen running an offensive set, it is also capable of utilizing a more defensively-oriented support set courtesy of its respectable bulk and decent supporting movepool. Due to Latios's blazing Speed, he is able to set up Reflect and Light Screen with ease for Baton Pass, and other offensively-oriented teams. Memento allows Latios to further support a teammate in setting up, as between dual screens and the Attack and Special Attack drops from Memento, a perfect opportunity to set up will have been created, rendering almost any Pokemon to no more than set-up fodder for a multitude of sweepers. Dragon Pulse rounds off the set by providing the dragon with an attacking option, which can be useful when dealing with Pokemon carrying Taunt or Brick Break, which will render Latios unable to do its job.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs are, once again, fairly self-explanatory - they increase Latios's bulk and physical defense to aid it in its ultimate goal of setting up screens for its teammates; also, the maximum Speed investment makes sure that Latios's Speed stat remains unhindered as it's one of the major selling points of the dragon running a support set. A Timid nature is also recommended for this reason. Light Clay is the recommended item on this as it prolongs the life of Reflect and Light Screen, making this set more effective. Although moves such as Refresh and Recover can be used on this set, they are not recommended as they transform Latios into a full-fledged defensive support Pokemon, which is outclassed highly by his counterpart, Latias.</p>

    <p>By definition, this set doesn't have many counters or checks bar users of Taunt, as many offensive threats are stopped cold by a combination of Reflect, Light Screen, and Memento while defensively-oriented Pokemon are usually no more than setup fodder for Latios. In terms of teammates, offensively-oriented sweepers make excellent partners to dual screen Latios as with said support, they're provided with an easier time setting up, and can fully use the offensive momentum Latios builds. This set also works very well with Baton Pass teams, as dual screen support goes a long way in aiding the various links of a Baton Pass team in setting up and passing to their recipients.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Aside from the mentioned sets, there isn't a lot more Latios is capable of doing that isn't outclassed by other Pokemon. A special Dragon Dance set can be utilized as it allows Latios to increase its Speed stat to outpace Pokemon such as Thundurus; even a mixed Dragon Dance set can be run as Latios has a respectable base 90 Attack stat and decent attacking options such as Dragon Claw and Outrage, which can aid the dragon in breaking through defensive cores. In terms of other moves, Substitute is a great option for Latios to use as it allows it to bypass Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar, common checks to the Eon Pokemon. Lastly, Hidden Power Fighting can be used as it hits Tyranitar for a larger amount of damage than Surf or Draco Meteor.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Although most of Latios's checks and counters depend on the set you're using, a couple of Pokemon can be called 'universal' checks to the dragon. Most offensive sets are easily taken care of by Scizor, Tyranitar, and Blissey, as the former two can trap and KO Latios while taking minimal damage from its attacks, while the latter can simply sponge Latios's attacks and slowly stall it out; however, it should be noted that all three of the aforementioned can be bypassed if Latios carries the appropriate move. In addition to Scizor, Tyranitar, and Blissey, almost all defensive Steel-types, such as Skarmory and Jirachi, and specially defensive walls, including Chansey, perform as excellent checks to Latios, as they can sponge the majority of its attacks and slowly wear it down. Lastly, Latios will fall to almost anything that outpaces it; prime examples of such Pokemon include Thundurus, Starmie, and Jolteon, which are all able to KO Latios with the appropriate move after some residual damage.</p>
  2. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    When you edit this, edit in that if you are using Choice Scarf, and you opt for Trick, not only will Ferrothorn be locked into one move by Choice Scarf, but it will also ruin its Gyro Ball.
  3. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    For that reason the first set should be split for both Choice items.
  4. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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  5. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Nah, I think just a detailed explanation will do.
  6. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    No Dual Screens set?
    It certainly requires more support than it used to in order to be as effective, but it's still a very viable set and shouldn't be overlooked.

    And while I don't think it should get its own set, I believe that Dragon Dance should get an OC mention.
  7. Iconic

    Iconic
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    dual screen + memento should get a set. it works nicely on baton pass of hyper offensive teams that need the screens, and a fast momento means that something is probably going to get a free switch in against an opponent who's forced to switch out. it works extremely well with gorebyss / deo-e baton pass teams, as well has super offensive teams comprised of frail mons like luke and chomp that need a little defensive help.

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screen + Memento
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Memento
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    the only other nitpick that i have is that thunderbolt needs to be mentioned somewhere. i think that on the offensive set, the last attack list thunderbolt then recover, with a mention of psycho shock in the additional comments. i tested expert belt with surf / dragon pulse / hidden power fire / thunderbolt and it was an excellent way of breaking down balanced teams that rely on ferrothorn + jellicent cores, and it was also my main way of stopping rain dance teams. i don't think psycho shock deserves a slash on the offensive set because without a means of boosting your special attack, you won't be getting by blissey and chansey anyways, and the extra coverage thunderbolt provides is extremely useful. expert belt should also be the first slash because that set is meant to play like a lure for scizor and ferrothorn, and life orb defeats this point.

    the second set can be renamed Calm Mind btw

    make these changes aaaaaaand

    QC Approved 1/3
  8. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    - Dual Screen Memento needs to be added
    - Take off the Modest slash on whatever set. Latios absolutely needs the speed due to the things hovering around the 97-108 Speed range, and they will eat up Modest Latios.

    For the 3 Attack Life Orb set
    - slash Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse (actually i'd argue that Draco Meteor is better than Dragon Pulse)
    - slash Grass Knot over Surf to hit TTar / Jellicent harder. You lose out on Heatran coverage though.
    - IMO move it to the first set slot. Specs nowadays can be taken advantage of quite easily (Ferrothorn, Scizor, TTar, along with set ups like Terrakion, Chestorest moth, and Reuniclus (all on the locked DMs), and other stuff that resist Surf/HP Fire/or Psycho Shock). LO/Ebelt lets you move around and a mispredicted move is less punishable
  9. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    random: since this is in QC now, I think you should remove the 'placeholder' section from the title.
  10. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Why no mention of roost? It's much cuter than recover.

    Seriously though, a dragon dance 3 attacks set might be viable. Give him a life orb, dragon pulse, hp fire and surf/thunderbolt/psycho shock/roost. It would mitigate the speed loss of hp fire as well.

    recover > roost because he learns it by level up, and it saves the TM right?
  11. wilson46

    wilson46
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    A set like that is pretty interesting, and it was also used back in Gen 4 Ubers. However, the speed boost of DD is the only thing Latios can make use of, and it is pretty situational as that only helps it outspeed common scarfers such as Garchomp trying for the revenge kill. Furthermore, you are not really boosting Latios' power unlike the Calm Mind set, and you are also limiting a moveslot for DD, whereas with the LO set, you deal good damage instantly and still have room for Recover or Psycho Shock. OC mention imo.
  12. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    No Dragon Dance sets? Why? Just Why? Dragon Dance Latios is the best lure for a pokemon like Rank, since it can lure out and OHKO Tyranitar, Blissey, and Scizor (HP Fire). I had massive success with Dragon Dance Latios both purely physical, physical + Thunderbolt, and mixed.

    Also on "offensive," please use Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse, as you are merely an inferior version of the Calm Mind set.
  13. Misa

    Misa

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    Would this do?

    Dunno what nature you would use for a set like that but I would assume speed takes priority over power since ScarfGon kills you otherwise.
  14. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Draco Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw / Outrage / Double Chop
    move 3: Hidden Power (Fire)
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spd

    This gives Latios minimum 300 special attack. The rest is self explanatory.
  15. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    If latios ever runs Dragon Dance, it should always run +Atk nature, not +speed. Scarfchomp and Scarfflygon are rare to non-existant, and you lose out on the OHKO on Blissey and Tyranitar after Stealth Rock if you switch to neutral nature. I'll reserve this slot to post my findings and calcs later.
  16. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Idk there RL. I still see Scarfchomps around, and there are also revenger Deoxys-Ses and Scarf Terrakions. Plus, you have speed advantage over a decent amount of things in the metagame if you don't get to DD (I mean sure you could very likely scare them away anyways but that's not something I would rely on).
  17. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    What about that Special Dragon Dance set that went up on Latios' analysis at the end of last gen? Is that still useful? Something like:

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
    -Grass Knot / Surf / Psycho Shock

    Can serve as a decent late game cleaner, I guess.
  18. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    why would you use that without using any physical moves? Outrage and Dragon Claw will outdamage Dragon Pulse on that set.
  19. Misa

    Misa

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    The power loss from Soul Dew as well as the recoil from Life Orb makes this set really not worth the effort, especially since Latios loses out a lot of power without CM/Specs.
  20. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    bibbidi bobbidi boo!

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  21. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    QC Approved (3/3)
  22. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Hidden Power Fire should not be the main option on SpecsLatios over Pulse or Thunderbolt. Yeah, it hits Nat, thats it. Scizor is 2HKOed by Surf or T-Bolt anyway. Hidden Power Fire means you automatically lose speed ties with other base 110s (dammit Gengar).
  23. Iceman Hotty

    Iceman Hotty

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    Why not use Soul Dew over Life Orb?
  24. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    soul dew is not yet released in B/W so until it is released Latios won't have a soul dew
  25. PandorasBox

    PandorasBox

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    Latios is 2HKOed bullet punch from Scizor
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