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OU Latios

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by dragonuser, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    [​IMG]

    Overview
    ########

    Latios has always been a premier special attacker, something that has not changed with the advent of XY. While Latios struggles to beat some of the newly introduced Fairy-type Pokemon, it still has respectable Special Attack and Speed stats in addition to a wide movepool. Latios also makes for a good offensive user of Defog, allowing it to play more of a team support role, something it has never really been able to do in the past. While the introduction of Fairy-type Pokemon to the metagame has diminished Latios's capabilities as a sweeper, it is still a fearsome threat that should not be taken lightly.

    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Earthquake / Hidden Power Fighting
    move 4: Defog / Roost
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Hasty

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is Latios's strongest and hence main STAB attack. Psyshock pairs well with Draco Meteor, getting STAB and good neutral coverage while doing physical damage, hurting special walls such as Blissey. The choice for the third move is entirely dependent on your team, as each coverage option allows Latios to beat a different threat. Earthquake allows Latios to hit Pokemon such as Heatran, Bisharp, Aegislash, and Tyranitar, with the only real drawback being Latios having to use a Hasty nature. Thunderbolt not only offers good neutral coverage, but can be used to hit otherwise troublesome threats such as Azumarill and Togekiss. Hidden Power Fighting is useful for hitting nearly every Pursuit user, as well as targeting otherwise good checks such as Mega Tyranitar. With Hidden Power Fighting, Latios trades its all around good coverage, for the ability to hit specific threats.

    Surf lets Latios do super effective damage to Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon such as specially defensive Hippowdon and Tyranitar. Hidden Power Fire can also be used for Scizor and Ferrothorn, both of which resist Latios's STABs. Roost allows Latios to heal itself, while Defog allows Latios to support its team better by removing entry hazards from the field.


    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs focus on letting Latios deal as much damage as possible while maintaining its crucial Speed tier, allowing it to outspeed threats such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape. A Life Orb is chosen for a similar reason, giving Latios as much damage output as possible without locking its move selections. However, Leftovers is a viable alternative if Defog is used, as Life Orb Latios with no healing lacks longevity.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Latios works best as a hit-and-run attacker, largely due to the Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor. This also makes the best use out of Latios's fairly limited longevity, allowing it to be a relevant force throughout the match. When using Latios, it is important to be careful of using Draco Meteor too much, as many powerful threats can easily set up on a -2 Latios.

    Team Options
    ========

    The checks and counters to Latios vary greatly depending on its coverage moves; hence, its partners vary greatly as well. Nevertheless, a few Pokemon reliably check all sets, such as Sylveon and Aegislash. As a result, Pokemon such as Excadrill, Volcarona, and Zapdos make for good partners, being able to threaten both Sylveon and Aegislash. Latios pairs well with Pokemon that can lure special walls, making Aegislash and Keldeo good partners as well.


    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    This set transforms Latios into an incredibly potent revenge killer, outspeeding nearly every boosting sweeper in the metagame. Draco Meteor is Latios's most powerful attack and the attack often most used when revenging. Psyshock gets good neutral coverage in conjunction with Draco Meteor, taking care of troublesome threats such as Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and Gengar. Surf beats Fire-types such as Heatran, Entei, and Talonflame, while Hidden Power Fire beats Scizor and Genesect. Trick allows Latios to cripple walls that it has trouble breaking through. If using Latios in the rain, Thunder can be used to better hit Azumarill, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz.

    Set Details
    ========

    As this Latios is a potent revenge killer, the EVs focus on maximizing both Latios's Speed and Special Attack stats so that it can be as fast as possible and hit as hard as possible.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As a revenge killer, Latios should only come out sparingly so as to maximize its longevity. Overuse of Draco Meteor can potentially lead to an opposing threat setting up easily against Latios, so Latios needs to be careful about its choice of moves. Trick should also be used fairly conservatively, as even when using it cripples an opposing wall Latios loses its ability to revenge many popular boosting sweepers.

    Team Options
    ========

    This revenge killer greatly appreciates partners with momentum attacks, such as U-turn and Volt Switch, which allow it more opportunities to switch in. Latios struggles to take down Pokemon such as Mandibuzz, Aegislash, and Togekiss without Tricking away its Choice item, making Zapdos and Rotom-W excellent partners. Given its typing and the fact that it is Choice-locked, Latios lures many Pursuit users. As such, Pokemon such as Mega Lucario, which can set up against the Pursuit users mentioned earlier, also make for excellent partners.

    Other Options
    ########

    A Calm Mind set is usable, but is generally outclassed by Latias due to Latios's lack of longevity. Similarly, a fully defensive set making use of Defog and Heal Block suffers from Latios's lack of longevity and would be better used by Latias. Latios can also make use of a Dragon Dance set, but due to its innately low Attack stat, such a set is better done by other popular Dragon-types such as Dragonite. Latios can facilitate a teammate's setup with a dual screens + Memento set, but it is fairly outclassed by Deoxys-S in this role. Shadow Ball is also a useful move, allowing Latios to hit Aegislash especially hard, but has little merit outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Special Walls**: If Latios lacks Trick, special walls such as Chansey and Sylveon are able to reliably wall Latios. Fairy-types do exceptionally well, as Latios lacks a reliable way to damage them.

    **Offensive Checks**: Latios's checks and counters vary depending on the coverage moves it chooses. Azumarill and Togekiss do well against Latios if it is lacking Thunderbolt, while Aegislash and Scizor do well if Latios lacks Hidden Power Fire.

    **Pursuit Users**: Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Mega Scizor make for good counters to Latios, as they can take a hit and prevent Latios from switching out.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  2. JEFLIV

    JEFLIV

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    A full support set might be cool (maybe for OO) with Defog, Heal Bock and STABs.
  3. MagikaripIsOP

    MagikaripIsOP

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    Isn't latias better as a defogger?
  4. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Latios still works as a pretty good Defogger for offensive teams that want its power over latias's bulk

    defog definitely deserves a mention imo
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Call me and I'll come
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    QC APPROVED 1/3
  6. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    nice n clean qc 2/3 comin thluu

    2ez
    Jaiho and Nails like this.
  7. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Ok this has been written up and is ready for its 3rd qc check
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    We have stopped merging choice sets since a long time. Specs is a nuke / wallbreaker, while Scarf is a revenge killer / cleaner, meaning that the sets have very different roles on a team. The first thing that should be looked when considering merging two sets is the role of each set and not if it's convenient to merge them just because they have similar moves and spreads.
    Spirit likes this.
  9. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    No mention of Memento Double Screen ? It's the only mon (outside of Smeargle) which can pull of this combination.

    Also surprised of the mention of Special Dragon Dance, which is good against teams which rely on Scarfers/faster mons to beat it (and it has no other way to boost his speed).
  10. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Ok this has all been updated
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    QC 3/3

    Good work
  12. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Thanks :)

    This is ready for GP
  13. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    because i was lazy: for all sets, swap the 'evs' and 'nature' tags (order is ability/ item/ EVs/ nature) and remove the 'ability' tag

    gp 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  14. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Thanks, implemented
  15. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Where's the soul in soldier on?
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    Doin this

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    Overview
    ########

    Latios has always been a premier special attacker, something that has not changed with the advent of XY. While Latios struggles to beat some of the newly introduced Fairy-type Pokemon, it still has respectable Special Attack and Speed stats in addition to a wide movepool. Latios also makes for a good offensive user of Defog, allowing it to play more of a team support role, something it has never really been able to do in the past. So While the introduction of Fairy-type Pokemon to the metagame has diminished Latios's capabilities as a sweeper, it is still a fearsome threat that should not be taken lightly.

    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Roost / Defog
    ability: Levitate
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is Latios's strongest and hence main STAB attack. Psyshock pairs well with Draco Meteor, getting STAB and good neutral coverage while doing physical damage, hurting special walls such as Blissey. The choice for the third move is entirely dependent on your team, as each coverage option allows Latios to beat a different threat. Surf lets Latios do super-(RemoveHyph.) effective damage to Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon such as specially defensive Hippowdon and Tyranitar. Hidden Power Fire can be used for Scizor and Genesect, both of which can threaten Latios with STAB Bug-type attacks. Thunderbolt is used almost solely for Azumarill and Togekiss, two Fairy-type Pokemon that would otherwise be difficult to KO. Roost allows Latios to heal itself, while Defog allows Latios to support its team better by removing entry hazards from the field.

    Set Details
    ========
    (AddEnter)

    The EVs focus on letting Latios deal as much damage as possible while maintaining its crucial Speed tier, allowing it to outspeed threats such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape. A Life Orb is chosen for a similar reason, giving Latios as much damage output as possible without locking its move selections. However, Leftovers is a viable alternative if Defog is used, as Life Orb Latios with no healing lacks longevity.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Latios works best as a hit-(+Hyph.)and-(+Hyph.)run attacker, largely due to the Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor. This also makes the best use out of Latios's fairly limited longevity, allowing it to be a relevant force throughout the match. When using Latios, it is important to be careful of using Draco Meteor too much, as many powerful threats can easily setup on a -2 Latios.

    Team Options
    ========

    The checks and counters to Latios vary greatly depending on its coverage moves; hence its partners vary greatly as well. Nevertheless, a few Pokemon reliably check all sets, such as Sylveon and Aegislash. As result, Pokemon such as Excadrill, Volcarona, and Zapdos make for good partners, being able to threaten both Sylveon and Aegislash. Latios pairs well with Pokemon that can lure special walls, making Aegislash and Keldeo good partners as well.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Fire
    ability: Levitate
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is the main attack of this set, as it is Latios's most powerful attack and gets STAB too. Psyshock works well in tandem with Draco Meteor, getting good coverage while hitting special walls hard. Surf allows Latios to not only beat common specially defensive Rock-type Pokemon such as Tyranitar, but also gives it a reliable means of damaging Heatran. Hidden Power Fire, alternatively, can be used to beat Ferrothorn and Genesect. Trick allows Latios to cripple an opposing wall, enhancing its wallbreaking power.

    Set Details
    ========

    This Latios aims to be a premier wallbreaker. As such, the EVs maximize its damage output while keeping its ability to outspeed notable threats such as Terrakion and Keldeo, and Speed tie with Gengar. Choice Specs increase Latios's damage output to allow it to hit as hard as possible. Thunderbolt or Thunder can also be used to better hit Azumarill, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Latios should never be on the field for too many turns in a row, as it serves best as a hit-and-run attacker. Be wary of spamming Draco Meteor too much, as a myriad of popular threats can set up against a Choice-locked -2 Latios. Also, be careful about Tricking away Latios's Choice item too soon, as a well-timed Trick can be devastating to a wall if used at the right time.

    Team Options
    ========

    Being Choice-locked, Latios lures many Pursuit users. As result, Pokemon such as Bisharp and Terrakion who can set up against common Pursuit users,(RC) such as Tyranitar,(RC) make for good partners. Similarly, checks to Aegislash and Togekiss such as Zapdos are also appreciated-such as Zapdos-are also appreciated. Finally, Latios greatly appreciates partners with momentum attacks such as Volt Switch or U-turn, which give it free switch-ins to then nuke the opponent. This makes both Genesect and Rotom-W excellent partners.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Fire
    ability: Levitate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    This set transforms Latios into an incredibly potent revenge killer, outspeeding nearly every boosting sweeper in the metagame. Draco Meteor is Latios's most powerful attack, and the attack often most used when revenging. Psyshock gets good neutral coverage in conjunction with Draco Meteor, taking care of troublesome threats such as Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and Gengar. Surf beats Fire-types such as Heatran, Entei, and Talonflame, while Hidden Power Fire beats Scizor and Genesect. Trick allows Latios to cripple walls that it has trouble breaking through.

    Set Details
    ========

    As this Latios is a potent revenge killer, the EVs focus on maximizing both Latios's Speed and Special Attack stats, so that it can be as fast as possible and hit as hard as possible. If using Latios in the rain, Thunder can be used to better hit Azumarill, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As a revenge killer, Latios should only come out sparingly, so as to maximize its longevity. Overuse of Draco Meteor can potentially lead to an opposing threat setting up easily against Latios, so Latios needs to be careful about its choice of moves. Trick should also be used fairly conservatively, as at the cost of crippling an opposing wall Latios loses its ability to revenge many popular boosting sweepers.

    Team Options
    ========

    This revenge killer greatly appreciates partners with momentum attacks, such as U-turn or Volt Switch, which allow it more opportunities to switch in. Latios struggles to take down Pokemon such as Mandibuzz, Aegislash, and Togekiss without Tricking away its Choice item, making Zapdos and Rotom-W excellent partners. Given its typing,(RC) and the fact that it is Choice-locked, Latios lures many Pursuit users. As such, Pokemon such as Mega Lucario, who can set up against the aforementioned Pursuit users, also make for excellent partners.

    Other Options
    ########

    A Calm Mind set is usable, but is generally outclassed by Latias due to Latios's lack of longevity. Similarly, a fully defensive set making use of Defog and Heal Block suffers from Latios's lack of longevity and would be better used by Latias. Latios can also make use of a Dragon Dance set, but due to its innately low Attack set stat, such a set is better done by other popular Dragon-types such as Dragonite. Latios can facilitate a teammate's setup with a dual screens + Memento set, but it is fairly outclassed by Deoxys-S for this role.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Special Walls**: If Latios lacks Trick, special walls such as Chansey and Sylveon are able to reliably wall Latios. Fairy-types do exceptionally well, since Latios lacks a reliable way to damage them.

    **Offensive Checks**: Latios's checks and counters vary depending on the coverage moves it chooses. Azumarill and Togekiss do well against Latios if it is lacking Thunderbolt, while Genesect, Aegislash, and Scizor do well if Latios lacks Hidden Power Fire.

    **Pursuit Users**: Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Mega Scizor make for good counters to Latios, as they can take a hit and prevent Latios from switching out.



    GP 2/2

    [​IMG]
    nice work, dragonuser
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  16. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Implemented, thanks!

    This has been finished
  17. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    added a mention of SBall to specs after a discussion on irc
  18. Namso

    Namso
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    I think it's worth mentioning or even slashing Earthquake on LO Latias, allowing it to hit the likes of Bisharp, Aegislash, Tyranitar, Mega Mawile, and Heatran for pretty good damage. These are all common switch-ins as well which furthers it's viability IMO. I'm not sure if there should just be a separate mixed set, but I don't think that's necessary.
    Ash Borer and BurningMan like this.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah, EQ should be slashed after, or even before Surf on the first set, as should a Hasty nature. The only real drawback to using EQ is that you have to use a -Def nature, and get more prone to priority, but otherwise EQ is the best move against the most dangerous switch-ins to Latios.

    And move Thunderbolt to ''Moves'' for now.
    Namso likes this.
  20. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Include Bisharp, Aegislash, and Mega Mawile as EQ's targets.
  22. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

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    I'd personally change all "it"s to "he"s, since Latios's gender is defined.
    rararaw, Shiruba and MagikaripIsOP like this.
  23. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    defog latios is standard and run all over the place. it should be slashed first.
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  24. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Actually Draco Meteor does more against Bisharp than Earthquake due to Bisharp's higher base defense. Considering Bisharp will kill you if you ever bother to attack thanks to Sucker Punch the drop from Draco Meteor won't even matter.

    252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 185-218 (68.2 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 174-205 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Even with that considered Surf does on average 1 less HP of damage against Bisharp than Earthquake. As a result Bisharp isn't really an Earthquake target.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I meant AV Bisharp, but that's not getting a set so idk...

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