Pokémon Latios

[mertyville]

Sucker Punch and Pursuit (if you switch out) are still OHKOs.

252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 336-396 (111.2 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't know how I came to that conclusion. I had that in my mind from somewhere and went calculating...I guess I somehow read OHKO as 2HKO or I mixed it up with another 'mon

 

[Jukain]

I've been toying around with an offensive CM normal Latios set lately and I can certainly see why it would work on Mega, as the lack of Life Orb recoil and increased bulk facilitate setup and breaking teams in a much more efficient fashion. I paired it up with Klefki's Spikes so it can 2HKO Unaware Clefable after Rocks, thus making it a very efficient stallbreaker as stall teams have very little to handle it. From my testing so far, it seems to be potent at breaking stall teams especially of course barring Jirachi, but this isn't difficult to take care of with the right support and also isn't all that common.

 

[mertyville]

I played a little bit more with the damage calculator

Life Orb vs Mega atk damage output

From the Attack Stat wise, Mega Latios does the same damage with its STAB Outrage like Life Orb Latios at 240 EVs and non STAB Earthquake is slidly less powerful:

Life Orb
240 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 196-231 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
240 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Mega
240 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
240 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

With more EVs, Life Orb does always more damage than Mega

Continue with the non STAB Earthquake's Damage Output similarity with both which would be exactly at 212 EVs:
Life Orb
212 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 107-126 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Mega
212 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 107-126 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

If you are running less EVs, Life Orb Stats to hit harder again until up to 200 EVs but then Outrage from Life Orb hits still harder:
Life Orb
200 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 105-125 (25.9 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
200 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 188-224 (46.5 - 55.4%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO

Mega
200 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 106-125 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
200 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 189-223 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

At 216 EVs Mega Latios does slidly more damage with both moves
Life Orb
156 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 101-120 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Mega
156 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
156 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 102-121 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

I think the significancy (is that even a word?) starts at 100 for Outrage:
Life Orb
100 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 95-113 (23.5 - 27.9%) -- 86.4% chance to 4HKO
100 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 172-203 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Mega
100 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 98-116 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO
100 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

88 EVs
Life Orb
88 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 95-112 (23.5 - 27.7%) -- 75.1% chance to 4HKO
88 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 169-200 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega
88 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 97-115 (24 - 28.4%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO
88 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

For Earthquake there is no significant difference...the largest one I found was when both had no EVs in their Atk which could make a difference between 1.4 % while Outrage does 2 % at least.

I also found out that 96 Defensive investment allows you to take 1 Sucker Punch from Bisharp unless it has a boosting item like Life Orb which they usually do, so I don't think investing on it for something like that or Ttar is not worth it.
But it gets 3HKOed by U-Turn from Landorus-T when it is running Impish with 4 Atk EVs or by Lead Mamoswine's Ice Shards which is nice I guess.

Latios@Latiosite
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Spe / 160 SpA / 96 Def
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earthquake
- Defog / Roost / Dragon Dance / Calm Mind / Psychic etc

Hidden Power Fire pretty much 2HKOs any Steel you want to hit with it, but the only concern what comes to my mind would be: What I don't hit with Draco Meteor compared to from 252 SpA for reasonable amount of damage?

 

[Martin]

I've recently been running Psychic›Psyshock on some (not all) teams to hit Chesnaught hard without having to resort to using Draco Meteor (cause psyshock doesn't do shit) and getting that annoying drop. Additionally, Draco only OHKOs 50% of the time without rocks, and Chesnaught will be at max HP a lot of the time due to Leech Seed, Spiky Shield, Drain Punch and Bulletproof. Here are some calcs to show its usefulness in this scenario:

• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 484-572 (127.3 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 213-252 (56 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 484-572 (127.3 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thoughts?

 

[astroshagger]

I've been toying around with an offensive CM normal Latios set lately and I can certainly see why it would work on Mega, as the lack of Life Orb recoil and increased bulk facilitate setup and breaking teams in a much more efficient fashion. I paired it up with Klefki's Spikes so it can 2HKO Unaware Clefable after Rocks, thus making it a very efficient stallbreaker as stall teams have very little to handle it. From my testing so far, it seems to be potent at breaking stall teams especially of course barring Jirachi, but this isn't difficult to take care of with the right support and also isn't all that common.

What moveset are you running?

 

[Jukain]

What moveset are you running?

cm / psyshock / draco / roost

 

[Yogi Bear.]

Does Latios lose any meaningful match-ups in OU by having a DEF IV of 20-22?

I'm SRing for Timid Latios in Omega Ruby atm, and I got one with 31/31/20-22/31/31/31

I might keep it but I'm unsure if 9 to 11 points in defense is going to result in Latios losing any meaningful match-ups.


Please VM responses.

 

[astroshagger]

cm / psyshock / draco / roost

I am thinking of running something like this -

Latios @ Life Orb
Timid
29 IV HP / 0 IV Atk
0/0/4/252/0/252

Calm Mind
Roost
Dragon Pulse
Psyshock

Not sure about the spread - have you been testing this anymore lately?

 

[AM]

I am thinking of running something like this -

Latios @ Life Orb
Timid
29 IV HP / 0 IV Atk
0/0/4/252/0/252

Calm Mind
Roost
Dragon Pulse
Psyshock

Not sure about the spread - have you been testing this anymore lately?

Just run Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse. The power difference and wall-breaking capabilities is the whole point of using it and Draco + CM Boosts + Life Orb Boosts has insane power behind it, while Dragon Pulse loses so much power that makes the set useful.

 

[Cocorentin]

Sorry but why 0 attack ?


Latios | Life Orb | Levitate
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 0 Atk
Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Hidden Power [Fire] or Surf | Defog or Roost

• Roost can be used over either Hidden Power [Fire] or Defog
• Psychic is a viable option over Psyshock, but it can't hit Blissey
• Luster Purge to get past Steel-type switch-ins if SpD drop
• Calm Mind for deadly sweeping but use Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor

 

[ThePack]

Sorry but why 0 attack ?


Latios | Life Orb | Levitate
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 0 Atk
Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Hidden Power [Fire] or Surf | Defog or Roost

• Roost can be used over either Hidden Power [Fire] or Defog
• Psychic is a viable option over Psyshock, but it can't hit Blissey
• Luster Purge to get past Steel-type switch-ins if SpD drop
• Calm Mind for deadly sweeping but use Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor

0 Attack is used to minimise damage taken from Foul Play, which calculates its damage based on the opponent's attack stat. And as a primarily special attacker, Special Lati doesn't need to invest in attack.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Sorry but why 0 attack ?


Latios | Life Orb | Levitate
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 0 Atk
Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Hidden Power [Fire] or Surf | Defog or Roost

• Roost can be used over either Hidden Power [Fire] or Defog
• Psychic is a viable option over Psyshock, but it can't hit Blissey
• Luster Purge to get past Steel-type switch-ins if SpD drop
• Calm Mind for deadly sweeping but use Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor

Roost can be run over the third attacking move, but generally Latias runs such sets better due to higher bulk.

Psychic is almost never worth it over Psyshock, Draco is already a strong enough STAB so Latios can afford to run the slightly weaker Psyshock and be able to hit mons on both defense stats is much better than a slightly stronger Psychic STAB (if you disagree at least provide relevant calcs of OHKOs/2HKOs that Psychic gets and Psyshock doesn't).

Luster Purge is awful, HP Fire and EQ are much better options to hit steel types.

Calm Mind isn't really viable on Latios imo, Latias does it better due to higher bulk.

 

[Prinz]

Roost can be run over the third attacking move, but generally Latias runs such sets better due to higher bulk.

Psychic is almost never worth it over Psyshock, Draco is already a strong enough STAB so Latios can afford to run the slightly weaker Psyshock and be able to hit mons on both defense stats is much better than a slightly stronger Psychic STAB (if you disagree at least provide relevant calcs of OHKOs/2HKOs that Psychic gets and Psyshock doesn't).

Luster Purge is awful, HP Fire and EQ are much better options to hit steel types.

Calm Mind isn't really viable on Latios imo, Latias does it better due to higher bulk.

I agree with all the things you said, except the last one. Actually, it's Latios that outclassed Latias as a CM user, not vice versa. Latios has more fire power, which is really useful to break things, and while Latias has better defensive stats, people usually prefer Latios over her because it hits harder. A set of CM / Draco Meteor / Roost / Psyshock works infact pretty well on Latios, being able to both support your team against threats like Keldeo and Landorus-I, and to act like as a good wall-breaker as well (I have seen it used as a win condition in some balanced buildings for example)

 

[Kurona]

Levitate: Give immunity to Ground-type (not Sand-Attack or Drill Run for example) moves

Lol what does this mean; sand-attack affects levitators while drill run doesn't.

Latios | Latiosite | Levitate
Hasty | 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Dragon Dance | Draco Meteor | Outrage | Earthquake

• DD Set that gets past usual switch ins with Earthquake; Tyranitar, Heatran, Aegislash, Excadrill, etc.
• Draco Meteor weakens and is powerful STAB when the lock in chance is undesirable
• Outrage hits like a truck
• Nothing can outpace this set bar some weird Choice Scarf Greninja

I'm not particularly keen on this at all. I don't see a reason to run it over, say, Mega Altaria or Mega Charizard X when they have beneficial abilities, better physical movepools and better secondary STABs. Latios only has the speed going for it and the only thing this outspeeds that 252+ Charizard can't at +1 are Scarf Keldeo, Terrakion, Garchomp, Victini and Jirachi, as well as +2 Diggersby, Mega Pert, Kingdra, Kabutops, Dragonite and Mega Altaria. It also speed ties with Scarf Gengar/Latios I guess. That seems an incredibly niche reason to use it and it is so weak with item/ability-less base 130 and practically no secondary STAB; I'd rather attempt getting to +2 with CharX.

All in all I feel Latiosite - and maybe it's DD set but I really don't think so - deserves Other Options at best and Mega Latios in general isn't deserving of it's own set. It's just a luxury item you chuck on if for some reason you aren't running a Mega with Latios.

 

[Blazikarados]

All in all I feel Latiosite - and maybe it's DD set but I really don't think so - deserves Other Options at best and Mega Latios in general isn't deserving of it's own set. It's just a luxury item you chuck on if for some reason you aren't running a Mega with Latios.

Adding on to this, given that ORAS has brought us so many powerful megas that few, if any, teams are built without a mega being a critical part of the team. A luxury mega really shouldn't be too common anyways because most teams are running a powerful mega.