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BW OU Layla

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Iconic, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,886
    Layla

    Introduction

    It's safe to say that throughout the last testing period, the OU metagame was in a very unstable state. The sparse banlist that was chosen by the majority of Policy Review members meant that amazingly powerful offensive Pokemon like Deoxys-A, Darkrai and Shaymin-S were fair game in standard play. In addition, new threats introduced in Black and White, specifically the obscure users of the ability Inconsistent, further added to the unbalanced nature of the metagame. Despite this, my experiences with Generation V so far have been mainly positive, not due to the fact that the metagame is enjoyable, but simply because a young Generation is a time for new sets to be discovered and for creativity to thrive. While this team is by no means revolutionary, I did my best to figure out which overlooked Pokemon work well in this metagame dominated by a select few offensive and defensive threats.

    For a while I was convinced that offensive was an inferior playing style with the advent of amazing defensive Pokemon like Burungeru and Nattorei, who made spikestacking stall teams more viable than ever. I used a team with that exact core for a few weeks simply because every attempt I made at running offense failed. To be honest, this team was more or less made in the attempts to prove to myself that I could get offense to work for me after having seen other players have success with it. Although the team isn't exactly offense in it's purest sense since some of its members are fairly bulky, I play it just as if it were a hyperoffensive team, relying on resistances and overwhelming attacks to open up and opportunity to sweep rather than using the bulk to counter every relevant threat.

    I've had a pretty good degree of success with this team, using it to qualify three of my accounts for voting rights, although admittedly I tested other teams with them. After the qualifying period was over, I used this team to bring my alt Layla to a rating of 1509, good enough for #1 on the ladder, which explains the team's name. I'm the first to say that ladder rankings don't really matter, I just included them to show the team's effectiveness since there haven't been any formal Gen 5 tournaments. I've spread the team around a little bit, so I guess I may as well retire it. Moreover, I figure now would be a good time to post my team since once this testing period ends, numerous Pokemon will be banned and the nature of the metagame will inevitably shift once again.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 SAtk / 76 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Crunch
    - Stealth Rock

    This is without a doubt the weirdest set on the team, and probably the strangest thing I've ever used, but I swear it works. Rain has been everywhere since the release of Drizzle Politoed, so naturally I needed a weather inducer to deal with the archetypal Politoed + Manaphy + Swift Swinmer teams. I settled on your average Tyranitar, but with a few tweaks. Thanks to Ice Beam, Flamethrower and the Special Attack investment, I'm able to easily deal with Gliscor, Nattorei and Skarmory, who are incredibly common in the current metagame. I opted for Crunch as the final move at the suggestion of many users, and it lets me hit Lati@s and Rankurusu harder than Dark Pulse, which is what I was previously using. Since I only needed a small investment to ensure the OHKO on Gliscor and 2HKO on Nattorei and Skarmory, I was able to load up Tyranitar's already stellar Special Defense to help with absorbing attacks.

    Tyranitar is the closest thing I have to a lead, seeing as the position was made obsolete due to Team Preview. I needed Stealth Rock somewhere on my team, and Tyranitar was the only one who had room for it. I've tried Superpower over Stealth Rock but I found I really needed it to keep Shaymin-S at bay since I'm already quite weak to it. Even though it was banned, Stealth Rock helps wear down offensive teams, putting them into KO range for Shaymin-S or Terakion to clean up. I also tried Lum Berry to deal with Darkrai better, but they usually just Focus Blast right off the bat, and Leftovers is far more useful mid-game.

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Taunt
    - Facade
    - Earthquake

    The Iconicscor (although I guess Iris deserves some of the credit)! This is another weird set, but it's extremely effective and is currently my favourite thing to use in the entire metagame.

    This is your classic Poison Heal Gliscor with a few unique changes. When I used Gliscor on my old team, Iris recommended I try Taunt over Protect to prevent Nattorei and Skarmory from setting up Spikes. The more I though about it, the more I realized how brilliant the idea was, so I began using Taunt Gliscor with Swords Dance to give me a way of actually damaging them after they've been hit with Taunt. Without room for Fling and Acrobat, I figured I'd use Facade for consistent neutral damage on just about everything. I guess Ice Fang would help against opposing Gliscor, but Swords Dance let's me beat most of them anyways, and Facade is surprisingly stronger than Ice Fang on a lot of things like Skarmory and the Lati twins.

    Gliscor is my go-to guy for a lot of common physical threats. All the EVs in Defense are to let me reliably counter Roobushin and Doryuuzu, and it also makes it easier to set up on various Pokemon (Skarmory does something like 10% with Brave Bird). With Poison Heal and immunity to Sandstorm damage, Gliscor is incredibly hard to take down. The small investment in Speed let me outrun a few insignificant things like bulky Rotom-A as well as most other Gliscor.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bug Bite
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost

    I started using this Scizor after Jabba straight up 6-0ed me with it... twice. I think it was initially created by locopoke though, but regardless, credits to both of them for this great set. Lum Berry Scizor is a really cool way of beating Darkrai, especially since the bulk let's me survive everything it can throw at me bar a +2 Life Orb Focus Blast. I made up the EVs myself, and I'm sure someone out there has a better spread for me, but I just made sure I could OHKO Darkrai with Bug Bite and then put the rest in its Special Defense to sponge Latios' and Sazandora's attacks. I think the Attack EVs are to ensure I can OHKO Darkrai with Bug Bite, and it lets me 3HKO Shaymin-S with Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock.

    Scizor is the second of my bulky Swords Dance sweepers, and it works extremely well with Gliscor. On one hand, Gliscor is great at setting up against slow sturdy things like Skarmory, Pokemon that Scizor can't reliably defeat. On the other hand, Scizor can set up on the likes of Darkrai and Burungeru, Roosting off most damage it sustains, which Gliscor greatly benefits from. I've always been a fan of strategies which involve luring and killing counters for another team member to pave the way for a sweep, and Gliscor and Scizor do this exceedingly well.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 SAtk / 92 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Pain Split

    In my opinion, Rotom-W is one of the most valuable Pokemon in the current metagame. I'm sure its usefulness will decrease if Drizzle is banned, but as it stands, Rotom-W is all I really need to deal with Rain teams. Thanks to its new typing, it brings to the table resistances to Water- and Ice-type attacks, the two types Rain teams primarily rely on. My thought process against Rain teams is simple: predict a Swift Swimmer and Thunderbolt, predict anything else and unleash a STAB Rain boosted Hydro Pump. Rotom-W's dual STAB yields amazing coverage, but it's unfortunately resisted by Nattorei. Since most Rain teams are usually paired with Nattorei, I decided to use Hidden Power Fire instead of Will-O-Wisp. As long as it's not raining, which I ensure by playing Tyranitar strategically when I see Nattorei on a Rain team, Rotom-W will always 2HKO it.

    Rotom-W is one of my main offensive powerhouses, but I gave it Leftovers instead of something like Life Orb or Choice Specs because I found the increased survivability to be more alluring than extra power. I never really considered Specs because I needed the freedom to change attacks in order to lure Nattorei, and Life Orb plus Sandstorm damage would mean Rotom-W dies too quickly. Pain Split doesn't get a lot of use, but it's there in case of emergencies, and it can be useful if I predict Blissey or Chansey switching in.

    [​IMG]

    Shaymin-S @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Seed Flare
    - Air Slash

    Shaymin-S is the Pokemon I decided to base my entire team around. I knew from DP Suspect Testing that SubSeed Shaymin-S was really good, and since BW revolves mainly around bulky teams, I figured Shaymin-S would have a lot of opportunities to get a Substitute up and flinch its way to victory. I honestly don't find myself using Leech Seed very often, as I'm usually just flinching everything left and right with Air Slash. Seed Flare is cool if I don't have a Sub up and I want to either kill something or dent whatever switches in. The great thing about SubSeed Shaymin-S is that if a counter comes in on a Seed Flare, because I'm not restricted by a Choice item, I can usually flinch my way past it if I get the Special Defense drop.

    Strangely enough, Shaymin-S is my answer to both offensive and bulky teams thanks to its blazing Speed. It is amazing against Rain teams as long as I'm conservative with Tyranitar, but it is equally as good versus the standard Nattorei and Burungeru defensive core. Since Shaymin-S was recently banned, I'll be needing to replace this little guy. Its presence in OU made Standard extremely difficult to play, as its combination of speed and power in addition to the luck it introduced was extremely overwhelming. Although it has been a great asset to my team, I'm very glad Shaymin-S is gone.

    [​IMG]

    Terakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justice Heart
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor

    After I put together the previous five members of the team, I looked at it and noticed how it was relatively slow. Seeing as I had most things covered between the other five Pokemon, I settled on a dedicated revenge killer as my final team member. Terakion is a really good Scarfer because it checks the majority of the obvious Suspects, such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S and Deoxys. Granted it can't really switch in to any of their attacks, it can OHKO them all and usually nets a surprise kill since Terakion is naturally slower than all three.

    Terakion is really good to bring in late game and simply clean everything up with Close Combat. Since most physical walls fall to Gliscor, Terakion is really hard to stop as long as I don't reveal him early. Sometimes I'm forced to do just that if it means I can kill off something threatening like Darkrai, but it's usually well worth it. STAB Close Combat and Stone Edge are amazing assets to any Pokemon, and Terakion's amazing Speed thanks to Choice Scarf lets him abuse this to the fullest. Earthquake and X-Scissor are never really touched, they're just nice for coverage moves if I really need something dead. I decided to go for Jolly instead of Adamant because the ability to beat Scarf Garchomp is really useful, and the slight loss in power is really not that big of a deal.

    Conclusion

    In closing, I'd like to extend a big thank you to everyone who helped me with the team, whether it was suggesting changes or testing it. There are too many people to list, but you know who you are! I'm hoping to continue using at least a variation of this team for the rest of Gen 5, but I'll obviously need to change things like Shaymin-S as the metagame develops. I hope you enjoyed reading this RMT, and there is a Threat List for your viewing pleasure below.
  2. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,886
    [​IMG] Arcanine - Kind of a problem because it has such good coverage, so I have to play around with resistances and clever switching. Rotom-W is a pretty good choice, and so is Gliscor if I can bring it in on anything other than Flare Blitz.

    [​IMG] Birijion - Shaymin-S more often than not, but if I think my opponent has good prediction skills then I'll bring in Scizor for the HP Ice or Stone Edge and proceed to set up. It has really nice coverage and packs a decent punch so I have to be careful with my other team members.

    [​IMG] Blaziken - Well as folgorio (noob) appropriately pointed out, if it grabs a free Swords Dance I'll probably lose a bunch of stuff. The thing is that it doesn't really get much opportunity to set up, except against Tyranitar I guess. Flare Blitz recoil can put it into range for Scizor to revenge kill it, and Life Orb + Sandstorm wears it down. I can't do much about Baton Pass except breaking it Subs with Rotom-W and then hitting the incoming recipient with Hydro Pump. I still don't find it that big of a problem because it's not common at all.

    [​IMG] Blissey - I have a way to beat it with virtually everything on my team except Rotom-W and Tyranitar. Terakion can OHKO with Close Combat, Shaymin-S can outstall it and Blissey is setup fodder for my Swords Dance sweepers.

    [​IMG] Borutorosu - Oh my god I hate this thing. I usually have to sacrifice something and then bring in Terakion to revenge kill. It has such great coverage, and it can really screw me up with Thunder Wave, as it bypasses Shaymin-S's and Terakion's superior Speed. If killing it means a paralyzed Terakion then I'm all for it however.

    [​IMG] Breloom - Gliscor is an amazing Breloom counter especially with Poision Heal preventing Sleep. Shaymin-S can come in on almost anything too and set up.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - It can be annoying, but I can setup on it with Scizor. Rotom-W is usually my initial switch in because it does very little with Payback while Hydro Pump 3HKOes.

    [​IMG] Burungeru - I have many ways of dealing with it, I just don't like taking the Will-O-Wisp on anything. I usually try and lure the burn Gliscor as long as he's already poisoned, and then go to Rotom-W or Shaymin-S for the Surf. If it doesn't pack Will-O-Wisp, Scizor will set up all over Burungeru.

    [​IMG] Darkrai - I hate this thing and I'm glad it's banned because it gives almost every single team problems. If I see it at all on Team Preview, I'll lead with Scizor because I can't afford it setting up. If it comes up midgame I'll still go to Scizor, and pray that one of the two Dark Voids misses so I can OHKO it with Bug Bite. If push comes to shove, I can bring Terakion in on a Dark Pulse and OHKO it (especially if it doesn't know I'm Scarfed) or revenge kill with Shaymin-S.

    [​IMG] Deoxys - See below.

    [​IMG] Deoxys-A - Another Pokemon who I'm glad is gone. Because it's 'uncounterable', I just play around with resistances again, doing my best to get Scizor in to OHKO it with Bullet Punch. Life Orb Psycho Boost OHKOes everything on my team except Scizor and Tyranitar (who is promptly murked by Superpowe), so that's my primary lure to get it in.

    [​IMG] Deoxys-D - I never see it, but Scizor can beat almost every variant I suppose.

    [​IMG] Deoxys-S - Unfortunately Tyranitar can't put lead variants in the KO range for Sandstream to kill it in one turn, so I usually stick with Scizor when I see them as a lead. I never see anything other than leads, but I guess sweeping variants would be dealt with by Scizor too.

    [​IMG] Doryuuzu - Gliscor is an amazing counter, with +2 Balloon Rock Slide doing something ridiculous like 35%. Rotom-W is also a nice counter if I can come in on an Earthquake. Having three Ground immunities is really nice here.

    [​IMG] Erufuun - Ah this thing is pretty annoying to play against. I usually go to Shaymin-S for the Leech Seed, then Gliscor for the Thunder Wave and then hope they don't Taunt me so I can Taunt them. I'm willing to take the Thunder Wave on Shaymin-S if I have to. Erufuun is honestly more annoying than dangerous if anything.

    [​IMG] Espeon - Well they'll likely be successful to bounce back Tyranitar's Stealth Rock, but if I see it on Team Preview I spam Dark Pulse before trying to SR. Scizor is also a good counter.

    [​IMG] Forretress - I Dark Pulse leads with Tyranitar to 'break' Sturdy and then follow up with a Flamethrower to OHKO. Other than that I have Rotom-W to beat it with HP Fire, and Gliscor can Taunt Forry and set up all over it.

    [​IMG] Garchomp - Swords Dance variants are quite problematic because they usually force me to revenge kill with Shaymin-S. I can wall Choice Scarf variants between Scizor and Gliscor though. Sand Veil makes me want to rip my hair out sometimes though.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Rotom-W beats all versions quite handily. My Gliscor is actually my first switch in to take the Fling because I really can't let Rotom-W get poisoned. Tyranitar has the tenancy to lure it in, and I can OHKO it with Ice Beam while only taking about half health from Earthquake. Shaymin-S can scare it off and get a Substitute up too.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Rotom-W (surprise) is probably the best counter for Gyarados in existence. Shaymin-S also does pretty well, and if for some reason I'm having trouble after it gets a Dragon Dance, Terakion can revenge kill.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Well unfortunately Tyranitar, who otherwise walls Heatran pretty well, can't really hurt it back. Rotom-W is a pretty good counter, and Terakion is usually a good switch in too because they mainly just spam Fire Blast.

    [​IMG] Hihidaruma - They hit really hard, but I'll be fine if I can get Rotom-W or Tyranitar in. If need be, Terakion can take the hit when coming in, and Gliscor can survive a Flare Blitz with its great Defense and OHKO back with Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Set-up fodder for a lot of my Pokemon. It can't do anything to Rotom-W, and since most Hippo don't carry Ice Fang, Shaymin-S and Gliscor can both set up (although I'm prudent of Roar). Tyranitar does a ton to it with Ice Beam as well.

    [​IMG] Infernape - I deal with this similarly to Arcanine, relying on resistances to bring in either Terakion or Shaymin-S safely so I can OHKO with one of their moves. I don't see Hidden Power Ice that often, so I can always let Gliscor take a Flamethrower if I come in on Close Combat and then OHKO it back. I really wish Rotom-W still had its Ghost typing for Infernape though, but I think I can take a Close Combat anyways.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Gliscor and Rotom-W are really good switch ins. Flinches can get annoying, but I've never been that unlucky with them. Terakion deals a boatload with Earthquake too, although it of course can't come in directly.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - Tyranitar more often than not, but if I'm feeling ballsy and think it doesn't have HP Ice, I can use it to set up with Gliscor.

    [​IMG] Kabutops - Since they're always paired up with Politoed, I bring in Tyranitar any time I can throughout the match to ensure it's not raining. If I have to, I can bring Rotom-W in on Waterfall, survive the Stone Edge and then OHKO back with Hydro Pump. If it's raining and I have no choice, I usually try and lure the waterfall on Shaymin-S, then to Tyranitar for the Stone Edge. After that, it's a lot safer to bring Rotom-W in.

    [​IMG] Kingdra - See above I guess, but in this case I usually bring Tyranitar in on the Draco Meteor and then I go to Rotom-W or Shaymin-S. If it's Dragon Dance then I will probably have to sacrifice something, and that's why I hate Drizzle and it should be banned!

    [​IMG] Kojondo - I see a lot carrying HP Ice for Gliscor, so I'm pretty careful with Kojondo. If so, Shaymin-S is probably the best choice because I can come in on the High Jump Kick and slap it around with Air Slash. Terakion revenge kills also.

    [​IMG] Kyuremu - Scizor is a great switch-in to most sets since they're usually Choiced. If I suspect otherwise or if I see Life Orb, then I try and lure the STAB attack onto Scizor (hopefully Draco Meteor) and then play around with Fire-resists.

    [​IMG] Latias - Between Scizor and Tyranitar, I'm pretty much set. They work extremely well together, because if Latias carries Hidden Power Fire, it can't touch Tyranitar because it's likely not packing Calm Mind too. Terakion revenges at low enough heath.

    [​IMG] Latios - See above. I usually rely on Tyranitar a bit more though.

    [​IMG] Lucario - I'm glad they're rare because I don't run Jolly Gliscor, so theoretically Lucario is a bit of a problem. Gliscor is usually my best switch in anyways, and fortunately I haven't seen any NP + Hidden Power Ice variants. As long as it doesn't have Vacuum Wave, Terakion is a great check if I can come in safely. Shaymin-S can also revenge kill all variants, although Inner Focus is bad news.

    [​IMG] Ludicolo - Pretty much the same as other Swift Swimmers, although I can't rely on Rotom-W. Scizor is actually my best bet, because I can survive anything (Modest LO Hydro Pump in the Rain does 78.8% - 93.3%!) and OHKO back with Bug Bite.

    [​IMG] Machamp - Bothersome as always, especially since I have nothing to lure Payback with so Shaymin-S can come in for free. It usually involves bringing in Gliscor on the DynamicPunch and then Rotom-W for the Ice Punch, although I wish Rotom-W had something to OHKO Machamp with. Shaymin-S usually ends up revenge killing it.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - It can only trap Scizor, but unless it's not raining and they do have Hidden Power Fire, I can actually set up on it since Scizor has so much Special Defense, Roosting off damage from Thunderbolt. If it doesn't have Scizor trapped, I usually just got to Tyranitar for the Flamethrower, or Gliscor if I can lure Thunderbolt so I can OHKO with Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Metagross - Rotom-W is a good hard counter, and Gliscor does well too.

    [​IMG] Nattorei - Never a problem, because literally everything on my team has a way of beating it. They're usually hasty when switching into Rotom-W, only to be 2HKOed by Hidden Power Fire. Tyranitar also lures it for the 2HKO with Flamethrower. Gliscor prevents it form setting up with Taunt, and can proceed to set up himself. Shaymin-S can usually flinch its way past Nattorei because they generally come in after I Substitute. Terakion OHKOes with Close Combat unless they're physically defensive. Scizor doesn't take anything from its attacks, doesn't care too much about Leech Seed, and can set-up with Swords Dance. I purposely designed this team to focus on beating the most important and common threats of today's metagame, and Nattorei happens to currently be the most popular Pokemon, which explains why I'm so prepared for it.

    [​IMG] Ninetales - I have to play the weather war with Tyranitar to beat it, and fortunately I can usually win because of Tyranitar's good Special Defense and Stealth Rock. Rotom-W can come in on Fire Blast, take the Energy Ball and OHKO back. Nasty Plot versions are rare from what I see, but I can revenge kill with Terakion or Shaymin-S.

    [​IMG] Octillery - I guess doesn't really matter since Inconsistent is the dumbest Pokemon related thing ever created, and it was obviously going to be banned from the get-go. When I did face them, I usually just went to Rotom-W and prayed I got lucky!

    [​IMG] Onokusu - They hit like a truck and are a big threat to any offensive team, so I just switch around cleverly because I'm just so clever. I can usually take it down through Sandstorm, Life Orb and Bullet Punch, while Gliscor's good Defense and immunity to Earthquake are also helpful. It usually takes down something with it which kinda blows, but it's to be expected I suppose.

    [​IMG] Politoed - I rarely ever lose to Rain teams thanks to Tyranitar's bulk as well as Rotom-W and Shaymin-S. Winning the weather war is all about keeping your weather inducer alive as long as possible, and I can do that pretty well since I don't need to constantly bring Tyranitar in, as Rotom-W can beat a lot of Swift Swimmers even in the Rain. I can switch in Rotom and Shaymin into bulky Politoed all day, but I'm a bit more careful with Choiced versions. I actually prefer Choiced Politoed because they die a lot faster, making it easier for Tyranitar to keep Sandstorm up.

    [​IMG] Porygon2 - These can be a big problem. Scizor is probably my best bet, but I need two or three Swords Dances before I can actually start hurting it. Terakion may seem like a good choice, but I don't believe Close Combat can take it out, and it usually just results in me being Recover stalled. If push comes to shove, I can always try and flinch my way past it with Shaymin-S.

    [​IMG] Randorusu - If they carry Hidden Power Ice I'm in big trouble, but if not I rely on Gliscor more often than not. HP Ice variants require me to sacrifice something and then bring in Shaymin-S to revenge kill. If it's at low enough health, Terakion can too.

    [​IMG] Rankurusu - These are pretty annoying, but Scizor is generally a good counter. If they get a Calm Mind up, Focus Blast is going to put a huge dent in me, but I can just Bug Bite twice for the kill if they're bulky. Shaymin-S and Terakion, as always, are good in last ditch emergencies.

    [​IMG] Roobushin - Between Gliscor and Shaymin-S, it is not a problem at all.

    [​IMG] Rotom-W - This thing is pretty rare (or was at least), but Shaymin-S does well regardless.

    [​IMG] Salamence - Pretty tricky, but they get worn down quickly by Stealth Rock and Life Orb, and I can sponge its Dragon-type attacks with Scizor. Although Bullet Punch doesn't do as much as I'd like, it still does enough to put Salamence away after Stealth Rock, two turns of Life Orb and Sandstorm. Terakion and Shaymin-S in emergency situations can help too!

    [​IMG] Sazandora - Scizor is a great counter as it resists Sazandora's dual STAB, allowing me to set up all over it. If it's Life Orb, I bring in Scizor first then go to Terakion for the Fire Blast, and I predict accordingly from there.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Rotom-W is all I need. If I predict U-turn I'll just use Gliscor.

    [​IMG] Shandera - Really rare in Wifi, and since it can't use Shadow Tag, it's quite easy to counter. Tyranitar is a great counter because I can use it as fodder to set up Stealth Rock (which cripples it for most of the game) or kill it outright. Terakion also fairs nicely, especially if Sandstorm is up.

    [​IMG] Shaymin-S - Extremely annoying, and Scizor was the closest thing I had to a counter. Things are made a lot easier if Stealth Rock is up, but I can still break its Substitutes with Bullet Punch and wear it down with Sandstorm. A lot if times it results in me sacrificing something and praying to god Terakion doesn't miss with Stone Edge.

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Rotom-W can kill it outright or Gliscor can Taunt it and set up on it.

    [​IMG] Starmie - Again Rotom-W has no problems dealing with it, while Shaymin-S can come in on anything except Ice Beam and set up a free Sub.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Fortunately not much on my team is affected by Toxic Spikes because Tentacruel can be a pain. Although it's usually successful in setting up Toxic Spikes, I can either scare it off with Rotom-W or set up with Scizor. I don't really like switching in Shaymin-S because of Tentacruel's good Special Defense, and also since many run Ice Beam, but if I have to I can flinch it with Air Slash and then kill with Seed Flare.

    [​IMG] Terakion - Gliscor can beat just about everything, even Balloon variants. Unlike other physical attackers, Terakion can't run Hidden Power Ice successfully, which is quite a godsend...

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - While I'm prudent about bringing in Terakion on Tyranitar since Tera is the glue to my team, it's more often than not my best switch in since most run Ice Beam for Gliscor. If I can get Scizor in safely it is also a good bet, although again I'm careful for the Flamethrower. Rotom-W can usually 2HKO with Hydro Pump.

    [​IMG] Urugamosu - Pretty threatening, but its immense weakness to Stealth Rock really cripples it. Rotom-W is my initial switch, and while a +1 Bug Buzz does a bunch, Hydro Pump can usually OHKO even after a Butterfly Dance.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Rotom-W and Shaymin-S.

    [​IMG] Venusaur - A pretty threatening Poke thanks to Chlorophyll, but as I've said I do pretty well in the weather war thanks to Tyranitar's bulk. If Poison Heal has been activated, Gliscor is a really nice counter thanks to its immunity to Sleep Powder. If all goes wrong, I'll let Scizor take the Sleep Powder, go to Tyranitar to activate Sandstorm, and then to Shaymin-S to set up.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Zapdos is probably the only Pokemon that makes me regret not having Stone Edge on Tyranitar, although I'm pretty sure it could just Pressure stall me out of PP. Regardless, Tyranitar can work nicely thanks to Ice Beam, and it also gives me the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. If it doesn't have Hidden Power Ice, I can set up on it with Gliscor.

    [​IMG] Zoroaak - I always forget about them when I see them in Team Preview, so it can sometimes cost me a Pokemon. Once I know what Pokemon it is impersonating, I'll usually use Scizor to counter it thanks to its great Special Defense. Terakion can come in on Dark Pulse and take it out too.

    [​IMG] Zuruzukin - Gliscor is usually a good counter, only ever having trouble with the rare Dragon Dance variants that run Ice Punch. If that's the case, Terakion can come in and OHKO.
  3. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Iconic, I -- Blooregard Q. Kazoo -- believe that this this team is not only the definitive and ideal offensive team of the early Black and White era of Pokémon, but also a perfect conglomeration of six Pokémon which interact and synergize with the utmost competence.

    Anyway, this team worked extremely well for me and I've used it to great success during the last testing period. You, sir, have recieved a luvdisc.
  4. Iris

    Iris

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    ill apologize for not making the sub seed shaymin team with you though you have done a good enough job at it for a canadian.

    One thing, that scizor does have a tough time against most burunkeru or whatever but who cares.

    The one rock resist really is going to hurt you i would guess but apparently not. Sub SD/Hp ice sand genie thing is probably the worst threat to your team. RP HP ice destroys you if it has leftovers so just keep rotom healthy at all costs. Probably the most important member

    Don't really want to change anything as we have talked about the team some so just wanted to say nice job.

    so nice job buddy.
  5. Iris

    Iris

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    actually, this is more of a nitpick preference thing but i run 252 hp evs on skymin to hit 101 subs. Blissey and chanseys aren't that common as one would think but i always thought the HP helps. Of course, this does limit the switchins from SR to 4 since its an even number but not having to predict Stoss or toxic against blissey or chansey or other Stoss / night shade users is always helpful
  6. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    Hey Iconic, impressive team!

    The main threats that I pick up are other weather teams, though I don't think by replacing one member would be optimal. Another threat I see is Nasty Plot Lucario, especially ones with Np/Vaccuum Wave/Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere or Hidden Power Ice. Luckily most of them don't run Hidden Power Ice in my experience, but Shaymin-S and Gliscor are also hurt badly by a +2 LO Shadow Ball, which OHKOes Shaymin-S after Stealth Rock, and has around a 50% chance to OHKO Gliscor after Stealth Rock too. Scizor, can't really do anything to Lucario unless it's severely weakened, and pick it off with Bullet Punch. You generally have to sacrifice Shaymin-S, if they are weakened though, Lucario can do massive damage OHKOing Tyrannitar, Terakion with Vaccuum Wave, and the others are pretty much taken care of with Shadow Ball. Aura Sphere will easily rip apart Scizor, OHKOing it.

    A nitpick is that I would recommend changing Shaymin-S's spread to 112 HP/144 SpA/252 Spe, which would add for a little more bulk, while having a enough power to always OHKO 4 Hp Manaphy without any entry hazards. On Gliscor, I would also recommend changing it a bit to the EV Spread of 252 HP/136 Def/76 SpD/44 Spe, as it gets you the bonus point in Defense, and it would allow Gliscor to never get OHKOed by a +2 LO Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock, it also outspeeds the neutral base 100s.

    With moveset changes, you could possibly change Pain Split for Substitute as it would help ease prediction.

    Good Luck man!
  7. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Very impressive team Iconic, this team will probably set the tone of the next round of suspect testing. Already I'm seeing these Tyranitar and Gliscor sets becoming standard, and HP fire Rotom-W rising in usage.

    First off, I just wanted to do a bit of nitpicking. With Tyranitar's ev spread, it hits 273 attack and 271 special attack. Therefore, crunch will hit a little bit harder than dark pulse, and it is better for CM Rankurusu anyway.

    With the loss of skymin your team has trouble dealing with Manaphy; minimal defensive investment can keep Terakion from 2HKOing, and either calm mind or energy ball gets it past Rotom-W. You also have somewhat of a weakness to SD Garchomp, especially sub versions, who can set up on Terakion locked into anything but CC and really mess up your team. I think specs Latios with trick would work well in place of Skymin to help deal with the aforementioned threats as well as messing up burunatt with trick.

    Also, responding to the post above me, while sub HP fire Rotom-W is a great set (I ran it on a DW team way before the smogon server existed), it's hard to use on a sandstorm team because sand negates leftovers recovery. Stick with pain split.
  8. Wafflez

    Wafflez

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    Congratulations on making this amazing team and being one of the very VERY few players that actually got the original rating required to vote rofl =p.

    Well theres not really too much to change as this team has already been fine tuned to perform as well as possible.The only thing i find really weird is Dark Pulse on Tyranitar. I honestly dont see what it does for you that say Crunch can not.SpecsLatios could be somewhat annoying for your team seeing as it can just keep coming in and spamming meteors to gradually weaken the core of this team. Although Scizor/Tyranitar helps against Latios but i would still suggest Pursuit over Dark Pulse to trap Latios and a few other Psychic/Ghost Types. The power of Crunch/Dark Pulse really isn't too much needed as Scizor already checks them pretty well.

    Also Quick Attack>X-Scissor on Terakion as you dont really need X-Scissor for anything and some added priority never really hurts. Also cool Gliscor set yet to try it out.
  9. Shnoogle

    Shnoogle

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    Well Terakion is his only Pokémon who is faster than Specs Lati@s, so in a pinch if Scizor is down he wont have to rely on the inaccurate Stone Edge to beat them, which does less damage anyways (150 vs. 160). It also helps against Rankurusu because after Scizor is gone this team has a tough time with the Calm Mind variants.
  10. Iconic

    Iconic
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    hey everyone, sorry for the late update but i haven't had time to touch this since i posted it. firstly, i added a threat list in case anyone was interested.

    i read over what everyone said and based on your suggestions, i changed dark pulse to crunch on tyranitar. i also changed its nature to sassy (-speed) so that crunch will hit a bit harder, and i think this will really help against rankurusu, and the lati twins to an extent. i'll also test quick attack on terakion, but i doubt it'll get much use, but hey it doesn't hurt to try it! regarding lucario, i don't think it's necessary to change lucario's ev spread because most nasty plot lucario have hp ice. on snunch's suggestion, i'm testing latios/latias over shaymin-s, who deals with lucario quite well anyways.

    thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions

    EDIT: wooooops dunno how that happened with scizor, since it lists 240 hp on PO. i must've made a mistake with an old version, thanks for the catch
  11. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
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    Hey Iconic, this is a very wonderful team. I'm going to say though that your Scizor has 6 extra EVs and that I recommend putting 4 more EVs into Attack or HP. Now that Skymin has been banned, have you considered trying a Celebi or (lol) Shaymin Land Forme? Yeah, I can't say much except that it has helped me get really far up the ladder (not enough for voting rights, but you know...). Overall, I cannot find a significant flaw in this team that you haven't found (and rectified) already. Kudos to you Iconic!
  12. Shnoogle

    Shnoogle

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    Scizor has 508 EVs currently... So there is no extra EVs to use besides those two that wouldn't actually effect any of his stats (since you need 4 to boost a stat by 1 point)
  13. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Been testing this team with Latios over Skymin – it’s probably the best straight-ish swap, being fast and having similar resistances and counters. Not as if the team has problems with Blissey. I am also testing Pursuit on Tyranitar, to take out Latios before it weakens the team enough for something else to clean up. So far my only loss has been due to Sand Veil hax, so things seem to be going well.
  14. Honestly

    Honestly

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    Wouldn't Iron Head Jirachi be a good replacement for shaymin-s
  15. min min

    min min

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    No. Jirachi can switch into Ice Beams but not Earthquake, while Skymin is the other way round.
  16. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    I've also been testing this team, using a CM Latios. It's a very good Skymin replacement in my opinion, but I've been debating HP Fire. It's an amazing coverage move, but it creates too many speed ties and outsped situations. Any thoughts?
  17. JLei2k

    JLei2k

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    Not that it matters anymore but doesn't Specs Kingdra in the rain straight up outspeed and OHKO or 2HKO everything on this team with Surf? I'm surprised at the teams success given that. You could sac and bring in Tar but then you'd have to sac something else since Kingdra would outspeed Tar. Obviously you must be a skilled player but how the heck did you overcome that.

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