Resource LC Analysis Questions and Suggestions

OP

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
LC Co-Leader
#1
This thread can be used for any questions or suggestions you have regarding LC analyses. That might include any of the following:
  • Questions about how to write an LC analysis
  • Suggesting a Pokemon that you think deserves an analysis
  • Adding or updating a set
  • Updating or improving information
  • Revamping an analysis
Keep in mind that all suggestions about a specific Pokemon should be aimed at changing the onsite analysis. If the analysis is still in progress, post inside of that Pokemon's thread instead.

If you don't feel like posting here or would rather get a quicker answer, there are often many people willing to help in the Metagame and QC channel in the LC Discord or in the Little Cup room on PS. Try to find members of the QC team!

This is not a thread for reserving an analysis or for suggesting grammatical changes. Those can be done here and here respectively.

Useful Links:
Grammar Prose Team Queue
Spelling and Grammar Standards
Guide to Writing an Analysis
Gen 7 Analysis Format


Pokemon with completed LC analyses:
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/abra/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/aipom/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/anorith/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/archen/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/axew/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/bellsprout/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/bronzor/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/buneary/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/bunnelby/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/carvanha/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/chinchou/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/clamperl/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/corphish/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/crabrawler/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/cranidos/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/cubone/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/darumaka/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/diglett/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/diglett-alola/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/doduo/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/elekid/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/ferroseed/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/fletchling/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/fomantis/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/foongus/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/frillish/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/gastly/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/hippopotas/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/honedge/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/houndour/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/klink/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/larvesta/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/lickitung/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/magnemite/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/mareanie/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/meowth/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/mienfoo/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/morelull/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/mudbray/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/munchlax/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/omanyte/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/onix/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pancham/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pawniard/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pikipek/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pineco/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/ponyta/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pumpkaboo-small/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/pumpkaboo-super/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/rattata-alola/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/rowlet/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/rufflet/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/sandshrew/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/sandshrew-alola/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/sandygast/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/salandit/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/shellder/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/shellos/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/skrelp/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/slowpoke/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/snivy/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/spritzee/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/staryu/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/stunky/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/surskit/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/taillow/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/timburr/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/tirtouga/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/vullaby/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/vulpix-alola/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/yungoos/
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/zigzagoon/
 
Last edited:

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#2
So if Diglett and/or Gothita are banned or Drifloon stays, whose job is it to scan analyses for mentions of the former and to add mentions of the latter? Also can I help?
 
Likes: OP

OP

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
LC Co-Leader
#3
So if Diglett and/or Gothita are banned or Drifloon stays, whose job is it to scan analyses for mentions of the former and to add mentions of the latter? Also can I help?
It's the QC team's job to make sure it all gets done but anybody with a badge can go to the analysis page and submit changes to update it. Then they would wait for somebody with a Site Staff badge (usually going to be me for changes to LC analyses) to merge the changes. For you and others that don't have a badge, you can help by finding which analyses have mentions of the banned pokemon or need to add mentions of the new pokemon and make sure the QC team knows about it. If you want to go an extra step, you can write up what sentences you would add / delete / rephrase and send them my way to make the edits to the dex.
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#4
It's the QC team's job to make sure it all gets done but anybody with a badge can go to the analysis page and submit changes to update it. Then they would wait for somebody with a Site Staff badge (usually going to be me for changes to LC analyses) to merge the changes. For you and others that don't have a badge, you can help by finding which analyses have mentions of the banned pokemon or need to add mentions of the new pokemon and make sure the QC team knows about it. If you want to go an extra step, you can write up what sentences you would add / delete / rephrase and send them my way to make the edits to the dex.
Ok I made a list of all Uploaded and GP Stage analyses that had mentions of Goth and put a suggestion for what to do with each. Anyone can let me know if I've missed any :D

http://pastebin.com/tDgTWqyD
 

OP

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
LC Co-Leader
#7
Hello
I would like to suggest an analysis of the Litten pokemon,
I think it's a lot of fun and interesting because some players do not like their evolution.
Thanks for the attention and hugs.
When suggesting a pokemon for an analysis please provide reasons why it deserves one. We are only working on Pokemon that are relevant in the LC metagame right now as those analyses will be most useful.

Suggestion: Absol
Format: LC
Thanks
Absol is not a Little Cup Pokemon.
 
#8
When suggesting a pokemon for an analysis please provide reasons why it deserves one. We are only working on Pokemon that are relevant in the LC metagame right now as those analyses will be most useful.
Pros:
-good offensive stats, coupled with 17 Spe
-access to interesting STABs on Flare Blitz or Fire Blast/Heat Wave
-interesting coverage physical options, such as Crunch, Leech Life, Outrage (lol) and, to a lesser extent, Acrobatics
-its utility arsenal is not that bad, with Fake Out, U-Turn, Will-o-Wisp, and Taunt
-multiple boosting option in Swords Dance, Bulk Up, and Nasty Plot; Work Up may be used, but it's outclassed by the option listed above. Note that Bulk Up and Swords Dance sets are unaffected by burns.

Cons:
-frail, very frail
-pure Fire-type means Stealth Rock weakness
-17 Speed is good, but not amazing
-hits 16 Atk or 15 SpA when unboosted, which are good but not fantastic
-forced to run a Life Orb + boosting move set, but it is easily taken out by most attacks
-susceptible to priority moves, as it lacks its own priority

Small note: if you make Litten avaiable, I want to take it

:)
 
Last edited:
#9
Hi there, as I've seen on some analyses, people who aren't qc give comments or make "qc amchecks" and I think that it should be more appreciated because even though you aren't qc, you're trying to hlp in your own way with the things you've learnt and I think it's really nice seeing people trying to help. So maybe there should be a brief mention about these or if the staff don't like this idea, it's totally fine; I just frlt like it's very nice seeing people trying to help one another despite knowing it's not an official check. Of course this doesn't go with the rule of amchecking that gets you on a team (eg. You need to do good gp amcheckings for the gp team), however if the lc c&c mods like the idea of seeing your knowledge and understanding through qc amchecks, thats totally up to them.

Thanks for reading, have an awesome day!
 
#12
Hi ! I have a question...

Cosmog is a terrible Pokemon and he has a evolution but he come in LC or PU ?
Uhm.. Cosmog is just an interstellar Magikarp

I don't really think it deserves some kind of attention (just ingame if you want a second legendary), and it doesn't justify an analysis since it can either splash or flee.
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#13
Hi there, as I've seen on some analyses, people who aren't qc give comments or make "qc amchecks" and I think that it should be more appreciated because even though you aren't qc, you're trying to hlp in your own way with the things you've learnt and I think it's really nice seeing people trying to help. So maybe there should be a brief mention about these or if the staff don't like this idea, it's totally fine; I just frlt like it's very nice seeing people trying to help one another despite knowing it's not an official check. Of course this doesn't go with the rule of amchecking that gets you on a team (eg. You need to do good gp amcheckings for the gp team), however if the lc c&c mods like the idea of seeing your knowledge and understanding through qc amchecks, thats totally up to them.

Thanks for reading, have an awesome day!
Well QC amchecks are a bit hard to place as they're much easier to be influenced by opinion and prejudice than GP checks as English does have rules for what is right and what is wrong and Pokemon doesn't really have rules since everyone has their own playstyle and ways they build and mons they like. But yes, QC amchecks are few and far between as usually they aren't taken as seriously as they should.

tl;dr: remember to respect QC amchecks, but they aren't hard to mess up.
 
Last edited:
#14
I'm new to analysis writing as whole, so my apologies if this sounds impatient, but how long does QC usually take?
It depends on the activeness of QC members really, the shortest I've seen is around two days but it can take up to a week, although high priority analyses usally get a lot of attention while normal ones have standard activeness that I mentioned above. If you bump your thread or ask on discord/ps, you might be able to get it through qc faster.

Hope I helped :)
 
#15
Hi!
I would like to suggest that Pumpkaboo-Small be added to the reservation list. Out of all of the Pumpkaboo formes, it seemed to have gotten the biggest buff this generation in the form of Z-Trick-or-Treat, being the best user of it due to it having a higher Speed than the rest of the formes. While this Pokemon does have flaws, I think it's viable enough to warrant an analysis.
 

OP

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
LC Co-Leader
#17
Sorry for my really late replys, been busier than normal!

Pros:
-good offensive stats, coupled with 17 Spe
-access to interesting STABs on Flare Blitz or Fire Blast/Heat Wave
-interesting coverage physical options, such as Crunch, Leech Life, Outrage (lol) and, to a lesser extent, Acrobatics
-its utility arsenal is not that bad, with Fake Out, U-Turn, Will-o-Wisp, and Taunt
-multiple boosting option in Swords Dance, Bulk Up, and Nasty Plot; Work Up may be used, but it's outclassed by the option listed above. Note that Bulk Up and Swords Dance sets are unaffected by burns.

Cons:
-frail, very frail
-pure Fire-type means Stealth Rock weakness
-17 Speed is good, but not amazing
-hits 16 Atk or 15 SpA when unboosted, which are good but not fantastic
-forced to run a Life Orb + boosting move set, but it is easily taken out by most attacks
-susceptible to priority moves, as it lacks its own priority

Small note: if you make Litten avaiable, I want to take it

:)
I don't think we'll open Litten up for an analysis right now. About everything it does is outclassed by other Fire-types, notably Chimchar, Ponyta, and Larvesta. Once its Hidden Ability is released, we definitely will though.

Hi!
I would like to suggest that Pumpkaboo-Small be added to the reservation list. Out of all of the Pumpkaboo formes, it seemed to have gotten the biggest buff this generation in the form of Z-Trick-or-Treat, being the best user of it due to it having a higher Speed than the rest of the formes. While this Pokemon does have flaws, I think it's viable enough to warrant an analysis.
Yup we'll add this
Fixed, thanks!
 
#18
Came up with a couple of unorthodox but fairly effective Bellsprout sets yesterday:

Bellsprout @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip / Bullet Seed / Seed Bomb
- Poison Jab
- Leech Life / Knock Off
- Swords Dance / Sucker Punch

I had some fun with this one. Bellsprout has a higher physical attacker than special attack and I honestly wondered why it hadn't been taken advantage of. However, due to Bellsprout's frail bulk, this can be a difficult set to use. However, this set has the potential to pull a 6-0 sweep. I've nearly had it happen and the only reason why I didn't was because the sun ran out. Power Whip deals so much damage that there's really nothing besides bulky steel-types that want to switch in on this set. Bronzor is one example as it walls Bellsprout's Power Whip, is immune to Poison Jab but must be careful of Knock Off or, if not running Swords Dance, Sucker Punch. But it will outspeed Bellsprout while not under the sun and OHKO with Psychic. Another thing Bellsprout must be careful of is opposing weather conditions, which will completely shut down it's speed. Swords Dance is difficult to set up but it pretty much guarantees a sweep if you don't miss Power Whip, which is a main failing of this set. Power Whip, while having a respectable 85% accuracy, may miss at crucial moments. I've had it happen. Bullet Seed is an acceptable alternative and Seed Bomb can be used if you are worried about Power Whip's accuracy and Bullet Seed's hit chance, but the drop in power may become noticeable against bulky Pokemon that are neutral to Grass like Mareanie who are OHKOed by Power Whip. Choice Band can be used for even more power but being locked into a move on an already frail Pokemon may be easily exploitable. A Sun Supporter is essential for this set. Vulpix is an excellent choice as it can possibly put a foe to sleep with Hypnosis, and get a free switch into Bellsprout.

Bellsprout @ Oran Berry
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: Not quite sure of these yet, could probably run the regular set's EVs
19 HP IVs
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Belch
- Weather Ball
- Substitute

Okay, this one is pretty gimmicky. But what it has to offer could give it points over the regular life orb sweeper set. Substitute blocks crippling status moves like Thunder Wave which could end a sweep easily as well as bypassing Sucker Punch from the likes of Pawniard, which Bellsprout can struggle against. By setting up two substitutes, one after the other, one can trigger the Oran Berry and gain access to Belch which, in my opinion, is a very overlooked Poison-type move. At 120 power, it's on par with Gunk Shot but has a higher accuracy. And the user only has to eat one berry and they have access to Belch for the entirety of the match. 19 HP IVs are used to make sure Bellsprout has 20 HP, which means the Oran Berry will activate after 2 substitutes. And with the 26 speed it has with the sun active, it will be able to easily get them up unless the opponent has priority. Perhaps not viable in the traditional sense, but it's definitely something to try out.
 
#19
Bellsprout @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip / Bullet Seed / Seed Bomb
- Poison Jab
- Leech Life / Knock Off
- Swords Dance / Sucker Punch

Bellsprout @ Oran Berry
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: Not quite sure of these yet, could probably run the regular set's EVs
19 HP IVs
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Belch
- Weather Ball
- Substitute
When suggesting a Pokemon's sets, keep in mind that the set should either
1. be of comparable viability to the Pokemon's best set, or
2. offer a distinct niche or approach to the Pokemon's niche on a team that its best set cannot offer.

Physical Bellsprout falls short of both of these traits because it directly competes with special Bellsprout as a Chlorophyll sweeper, which has access to an incredibly useful coverage move in Weather Ball, the move that makes Bellsprout so good to begin with. It does beat Hippopotas, Amaura, and Chespin, but these Pokemon are relatively uncommon and much less relevant than the likes of Pawniard, Ferroseed, Magnemite, opposing Sun sweepers, and Foongus, so special Bellsprout is generally the better choice. That being said, beating these niche Pokemon does qualify it for Other Options, where slightly gimmicky but still viable sets are mentioned.

You said yourself that Belchsprout is a bit of a gimmick; a barely more powerful Poison move is generally not worth the tradeoff of a much weaker Solar Beam or Weather Ball and inability to run Sleep Powder over Life Orb Bellsprout, and lacks the initial punch that Poisonium Z Bellsprout has.
 
#20
When suggesting a Pokemon's sets, keep in mind that the set should either
1. be of comparable viability to the Pokemon's best set, or
2. offer a distinct niche or approach to the Pokemon's niche on a team that its best set cannot offer.

Physical Bellsprout falls short of both of these traits because it directly competes with special Bellsprout as a Chlorophyll sweeper, which has access to an incredibly useful coverage move in Weather Ball, the move that makes Bellsprout so good to begin with. It does beat Hippopotas, Amaura, and Chespin, but these Pokemon are relatively uncommon and much less relevant than the likes of Pawniard, Ferroseed, Magnemite, opposing Sun sweepers, and Foongus, so special Bellsprout is generally the better choice. That being said, beating these niche Pokemon does qualify it for Other Options, where slightly gimmicky but still viable sets are mentioned.

You said yourself that Belchsprout is a bit of a gimmick; a barely more powerful Poison move is generally not worth the tradeoff of a much weaker Solar Beam or Weather Ball and inability to run Sleep Powder over Life Orb Bellsprout, and lacks the initial punch that Poisonium Z Bellsprout has.
That is basically what these sets are. Gimmicks that I thought up. I'm pretty much brand new to competitive and these were the first sets I thought of. I have had some good games with the physical set but yes, it is a bit of a niche pick. I did think of a really gimmicky combo for the physical set that combines a Watmel Berry and Natural Gift, but it's one-use and you lose power by not having Life Orb. I did have a crack at Grubbin but the best I could think of was a Banded or Bulky Eviolite pivot because his movepool is quite limited.
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#21
Sets that should be added imo:
Z-Wring Out Snivy
Choice Scarf Larvesta
Twinkle Tackle Gastly
All Out Attacker Life Orb Corphish

I'm sure there are others but these 4 I thought deserved specific mention as potential extra sets
 

Gummy

send typecharts
is a Pre-Contributor
#22
Sets that should be added imo:
Z-Wring Out Snivy
Choice Scarf Larvesta
Twinkle Tackle Gastly
All Out Attacker Life Orb Corphish

I'm sure there are others but these 4 I thought deserved specific mention as potential extra sets
haven't used the other ones so idk but fiend specifically told me to move scarfvesta to OO after i had already included it as a set, so that's probably staying there
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#23
Less important sets:
SR Tyrunt
Eviolite Bronzor
Eviolite Houndour

and certain set re-ordering:
Scarf Cranidos before LO Cranidos
ZMM Vullby to the very end
Weak Armour Onix before normal SR (iffy on this one but some have suggested it)
Sturdy SS Tirtouga to the beginning
Scarf Frillish in front of Tank Frillish

All of these are from the set viability rankings, although some of the switches in set order are my opinions. You guys can discuss whether any of these are good or bad ideas.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#24
Less important sets:
SR Tyrunt
Eviolite Bronzor
Eviolite Houndour

and certain set re-ordering:
Scarf Cranidos before LO Cranidos
ZMM Vullby to the very end
Weak Armour Onix before normal SR (iffy on this one but some have suggested it)
Sturdy SS Tirtouga to the beginning
Scarf Frillish in front of Tank Frillish

All of these are from the set viability rankings, although some of the switches in set order are my opinions. You guys can discuss whether any of these are good or bad ideas.
On the Set VR, the council decided to also include some honestly pretty bad sets. In particular, both Stealth Rock Tyrunt and Eviolite Bronzor were discussed during their respective QC process and decided against including. In addition, Sturdy Smash Tirtouga was the set I originally had as the first set, but was changed after we had decided that Solid Rock was simply better and faced less competition.

As for the rest, I disagree with Eviolite Houndour, since it is still going to be extremely frail and will generally prefer the boost to its offensive capabilities.
Scarf Cranidos should move before LO, I agree. Cranidos doesn't really need more damage, Speed is its issue.
ZMM Vullaby will most likely be moved soon, there has been plenty of discusson about this
Disagree with WA Onix > Sturdy. Sturdy is still the most reliable rocker we have and also Onix's most common set (afaik, we haven't had usage stats in a while so I can't be certain). It should definitely remain at the top.
I don't really care whether Tank or Scarf Frillish is first set, neither is really worse than the other imo.
 

Fiend

the hound.
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#25
I'll toss my input on: evio houndour is awful and is hardly even worth an OO mention since it barely traps pumpkin w/ shit dmg output.
Vulla move is a yes while everything else i think should stay the same. Cran and frillish don't really matter to me since neither are particularly splashable but scarf sets aren't too awful on teams when you are learning how to build and are dead set on using it.

imo Twinkle Tackle Gastly and Z-Wring Out Snivy really need to be added though.