1. GET SMOGON SHIRTS HERE! First time ever. Limited time only & next time the design will be different, so get it while you can!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

LC CCAT (Version III) [Ladder Race won by iss] See Post #236

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Electrolyte, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Shouting

    Shouting

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Croagunk seems solid because every LC team needs a fighting resist and Difloon is not a reliable check to fighting types (especially with DBond) Riolu is a solid choice as well but I think the ability to switch into fighting types easily gives Croagunk an edge here. Chinchou is good I guess, but we really need a fighting resist now, especially if we are making Murkrow Scarfed.
  2. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !!!
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,372
    Nice idea about the PM electrolyte!

    However I would still like to discuss a few things. Since the votes are done through PM I would not want anyone just blindly voting Pokémon without having any idea of what they add to the table. So I will mention a few threats I can see to our team.

    Tirtouga can be threatening to the team if it Shell Smashes and while it can't sweep this team straight up if it can get off a Shell Smash and our team is weakened it can run through our team hitting all of the members super effectively with its stabs.
    except our own Tirtouga. Again it can be difficult for it to set up and priority from Snover and Murkrow help somewhat in beating it although if Murkrow is weakened Aqua Jet will KO it and Tirtouga does resist Ice Shard

    Shellder Especially if it has Ice Shard because then it can take out Murkrow without having to work about Sucker Punch. Also between Rock Blast and Icicle Spear it can again hit all our team super effectively except Tirtouga who won't be doing much to it if Shellder has already set up. Speaking of setting up, with Shellders great physical defense it can set up on Tirtouga and Drilbur and of course Snover locked into Blizzard a common scenario.

    Scraggy If Murkrow is weakened I see Scraggy being a great threat at +1 since it outspeeds the whole team and hits them all super effectively with its stabs except Drilbur. It can also easily gain health back with Drain Punch to avoid being picked off with Ice Shard from Snover.

    Also remember our theme is 'Overwhelming Offense' so make sure the pokemon you vote contributes to that theme.

    Also Electrolyte to avoid confusion (since I nearly voted in this thread) I suggest you change 'submssions' to 'PM me your vote' or something similar.
  3. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    Does no one notice the retarded Snover weakness ?
  4. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    Which Porygon patches, making it the best obviously.
  5. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,580
    Yes, that is an issue but Pawniard is the only Snover counter on the nominations but that makes us really weak to Chinchou and Magnemite imo. So I think settling for a check in the form of Vacuum Wave Croagunk might be the best option at the moment, as that is the only Pokemon that gives us an answer to everything we struggle with.
  6. Nozzle

    Nozzle

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    928
    Croagunk checks stuff due to it's typing but is in no means overwhelming.
  7. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,580
    I do agree with this. If we're going to be fitting the theme of overwhelming offense, I honestly think Chinchou is the best choice. But the question we have to ask ourselves is whether it is completely possible to make a top tier team with the current line up and Chinchou. I have used it on the ladder and it does work fine but Croagunk would provide a good check to so many Pokemon that we struggle against. With Vacuum Wave + Fake Out it would also help us against opposing Hyper Offense teams picking off weakened frail sweepers.
  8. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    For the record, adding glue to make the team functional does not in any way detract from the team's purpose.
  9. kingmidas

    kingmidas

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    923
    I agree with crogunk mainly because its ability to stop drilburs using sand rush to sweep after it is weakened. other then that I like my timburr (which I will be putting up soon) more because it can beat drilburs even better almost like a hard check to it.
  10. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,040
    Ok, so as it stands, 8 people have voted! I'll leave voting open for one more day, so people who haven't voted yet, can. And just saying- your vote could very well make a difference, so don't hesitate!
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,040
    Wow, what a way to finish this team off. Lunatic Lie's Croagunk has won this week's nomination by only one vote. Here are a list of Pokemon and the people who voted for them:

    CROAGUNK-
    Corkscrew +2
    Superpowerdude +1
    viashinomage +1
    Kingmitus +1

    PORYGON-
    Nozzle +1
    Blarajan +2
    chieliee +1

    CHINCHOU-
    Sarkynin +1


    Here's the set:

    [​IMG]
    Croagunk @ Eviolite
    Trait: Dry Skin
    Level: 5
    EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SAtk / 116 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Ball

    Here's the team:
    the team (open)

    [​IMG]
    Murkrow @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
    Jolly nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch

    [​IMG]
    Drifloon @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spd / 36 SAtk / 4 Def / 4 SDef
    Naive Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power something else
    - Destiny Bond

    [​IMG]
    Tirtouga (M) @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Aqua Tail
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet

    [​IMG]
    Drilbur @ Eviolite
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Rock Slide / X-Scissor
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]
    Snover @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 108 Atk / 188 SpA / 196 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire / Ground
    - Ice Shard

    [​IMG]
    Croagunk @ Eviolite
    Trait: Dry Skin
    Level: 5
    EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SAtk / 116 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Ball


    Lunatic Lies gets one more bonus point!


    Now, as you can see, the team is completed. Now, we'll have a ladder race, and make any necessary changes that are needed to improve the team (of which there are a few I can see myself)

    This is how it's going to work. Everyone that wishes to participate in a ladder race should sign up by posting in this thread with information regarding their new alt, their current rank, and any changes they have made to the team. That way, we can efficiently gauge the effectiveness of each and every proposed change.

    Format:
    PS alt:
    Rank:
    Changes:

    Everyone MUST use a new alt for this race. Changes are restricted to a maximum of ONE Pokemon change and no maximum to set changes (as in, Item, Moves, Ability, Nature / EVs / IVs) Multiple attempts are allowed as long as they are posted in this thread.

    This race will last for a couple of weeks so everyone can make their proposed changes and thoroughly test them out.

    Meanwhile, as per usual, this thread will be open for discussion, and people are free to share their ideas and comment on the ideas of others.

    Good luck everybody! And nice work, all of you!

    blaraedit: if your proposed changes forces us to use more than one different Pokemon, different sets, or different EVs, that's fine as long as you justify them well
  12. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    PS alt: Expedition
    Rank: 1644 (15-8 W/L)
    Changes: Used HP Fire on Driftloon and Snover and Rock Slide on Drilbur

    Lets give this team a test run shall we :D
  13. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    Alt: Galvatron CCAT
    Rank: 1007
    Changes: once I get on a comp
  14. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !!!
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,372
    Alt: spd ccat
    rank: 1007 (now 1944 at 22-1) FUCKING COCKSUCKING INTERNET!
    due to me dc'ing I am now 22-2
    changes: bulky ss tirt>standard ss tirt
  15. viashinomage

    viashinomage

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    I'm sorry porygon ;-;
    alt: viamage
    changes; tbd
  16. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    bs hax

    PS Alt: WE Weixiao
    Ranking: 2112
    Changes: Tirtouga -> Porygon, Croagunk -> Mienfoo, Drilbur -> Staryu

    wait this feels familiar
  17. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    I edited Electrolyte's post as the restrictions on editing were too arbitrary. If you manage to edit the team by not killing the team's main purpose and without making a really different team, then it doesn't matter if you change sets or more than one Pokemon.
  18. Icicle Fissh

    Icicle Fissh

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    93
    PS alt: freee tibet

    Rank: lc 2231 88 2099 ± 146 (provisional) 7 0 0 (obvioulsy much less dev is needed, update later. Also, I think that ACRE is glitched.)

    Changes: Scarf Murkrow > SubRoost Murkrow, Solid Rock > Sturdy Tirtouga
  19. kingmidas

    kingmidas

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    923
    PS Alt (if I can ever get back onto PS): LC needs originality
    Rank: LC 1007
    changes: Nothing because I can turn any crappy team good with my luck (not saying this team is bad I just hate snover)
  20. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    [​IMG]

    Well, I guess being able to use my two main teams for this made it a bit easy. The iss alt is pretty relevant too since only the two variants below were used on it since the last ladder reset. Here's what I used to get there:

    Variant 1: LC Rising (open)
    Code:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471244
    
    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunder Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    
    Murkrow @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SDef / 188 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch
    
    Snover @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 104 Atk / 184 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    
    Drifloon @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    Level: 5
    EVs: 196 Atk / 116 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Naughty Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute
    - Hypnosis
    
    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 196 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    
    Mienfoo @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    Level: 5
    EVs: 156 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - U-turn
    - Fake Out
    - Knock Off
    If you follow LC, you've probably seen this team sometime. It has been immensely successful, especially during the ladder challenge, but I've already said everything possible about it in the RMT so I'll just mention the differences between it and the CCAT:

    Porygon > Tirtouga: One of the major problems of the current CCAT is that we lack a solid check to the omnipresent Murkrow and Misdreavus. We have situational checks in Tirtouga and our own Murkrow, but neither can handle many variants of the aforementioned Pokemon. Porygon provides the glue to patch up these checks, as well as making us not autolose to opposing Tirtouga and Shellder if Croagunk falls. Our Tirtouga is rather expendable through process of elimination: Murkrow and Drifloon are our offensive core, Snover makes us not lose to sand, a Fighting-type beats Scraggy, and a spinner is needed to patch up the Stealth Rock weakness. Tirtouga is certainly nice, but it isn't a necessity for this team. Porygon fills the holes better than anything else; the only viable alternative is Chinchou, but the reliability of Recover is always helpful.

    Mienfoo > Croagunk: This is mostly a personal preference, as both fill pretty similar roles on this team: a Scraggy check. Croagunk arguably does a better job at this due to not losing to Knock Off Scraggy (although ZHB destroys it), but Mienfoo's versatility is incredible for nearly all purposes. Having an excellent lead is also nice, as well as a marginally more powerful Fake Out. Regenerator makes it all happen, as U-turn makes it all so easy to use. Overall, Mienfoo's better recovery makes it better over the long run, while Croagunk is a very situational counter.

    Staryu > Drilbur: Another personal preference. I am personally of the opinion that a versatile 19 Speeder is required on all balance teams. SubRoost Murkrow, despite being fantastic, simply doesn't have the "take hits and dish them back" mentality that Misdreavus and Staryu have. Obviously a spinner is still required, so Staryu fits the bill pretty well. Staryu also has better synergy with Snover than Drilbur does, which is always a bonus. Drilbur isn't bad, it just doesn't work on this team due to its nature.

    Variant 2: LC blararising (open)
    Code:
    Riolu @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    Level: 5
    EVs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 116 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Copycat
    - Protect
    - Crunch / Substitute
    
    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunder Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    
    Snover @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 104 Atk / 184 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    
    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    Level: 5
    EVs: 240 SAtk / 240 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Will-O-Wisp
    
    Murkrow @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SDef / 188 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch
    
    Drilbur @ Eviolite
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    Not really associated with blarajan, but the key difference here was inspired by him. I built this team roughly four months ago, and I most notably used it to 2-0 Litchi in the Player Rankings finals (Game 1 and Game 2). Again, one major change and two smaller changes:

    Porygon > Tirtouga: Same as LC Rising.

    Riolu > Croagunk: blarajan showed me how amazingly good Riolu is. With a bit of creativity, it becomes a monster once you start thinking about how to use it. Copycat is just always amazing. It is arguably a better Scraggy counter than either Croagunk or Mienfoo, as it can beat any variant with prediction. Aside from that, it is really bulky, and Drain Punch + Copycat will 2HKO many squisher Pokemon. The 4th slot is pretty much filler; Crunch is super nice against Ghost-types, while Substitute can pull off some amazing plays.

    Misdreavus > Drifloon: This is more out of necessity than out of preference; as previously mentioned, I believe a versatile 19 Speeder is vital to balance teams. I specifically wanted to use Drilbur on this team when I built it, so Misdreavus was the only choice. Drilbur is a much less reliable spinner than Staryu, so dropping an SR weak was also nice. Don't get me wrong: Murkrow + Drifloon is awesome, but Misdreavus is simply needed to patch the team together. The set is fairly standard, much like all of the sets I've used; Substitute over Will-O-Wisp is an option, but I simply prefer the latter.


    Both variants are very solid, although I do prefer the former; the latter is heavily hurt by the choice of Drilbur, as it weakens the overall dynamic of the team significantly. That said, Pokemon can be swapped between the two, although these variants have been proven to be the most viable on ladder and in tournament play. The main concept is Murkrow + Snover + Porygon/Chinchou + Fighting-type + Ghost-type + spinner, and it does work incredibly well.

    The team as it is currently is simply too weak to work in the current metagame, and the addition of Porygon is necessary for it to work. While it does detract from the offensive concept, the concept itself was flawed; we attempted for a team somewhere between HO and bulky offense and ended up with something that can't sweep and gets swept. It's closer to balance than anything else, and with these changes it can become a true, solid balance team.
  21. apt-get

    apt-get platinum happy
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    PS alt: AptCCATladdering
    Rank: 1007
    Changes: Krow > Perishtrap krow

    Laddering for fun :)
  22. Artemisa

    Artemisa

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    231
    PS alt: Get Donked
    Rank: Nothing because I'm not registered yet
    Changes: Sub on Drif, Rock Slide on Drilbur, 200 evs in speed for Snover to hit 14 Murkrow > Sub Toxic Krow
    My Peak: 2028 and still going strong
  23. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    Hereby banning iss from the CCAT for making all cool teams boring and full of suck.
  24. -Sparkbeat-

    -Sparkbeat-

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    PS alt: Within
    Rank: Fresh
    Changes: Sub on Drifloon, HP Fire on Snover, and Rock Slide on Drilbur
  25. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,040
    Ok, I'm posting here to notify everyone that I will be ending the testing session by the end of this week. Please get your ranks in, win any final ladder matches to just inch ahead of iss, and update your registration posts with other relevant information.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)